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Re: Is the age of sharing DNA as a way to explore deep ancestry going away?
On Apr 12, 2025, at 12:39?PM, Lunceford via groups.io <wtwya@...> wrote:
With data sharing sites like GDEMatch and the shenanigans with 23andMe being sold to companies for their use and now YDNA Warehouse going away, I wonder what the future of being able to share DNA data in a non-commercial way for ancestral research is going to be, esp on the Y side vs autosomal? ?The trend seems to be constriction for usually financial reasons, so for the sties left will they eventually succumb, going the way of the Y chromosome itself? ?Will they need to move to some kind of subscription model to survive vs being sold? Just an afternoon thought
I have a high-level sketch of what I’ll be working on after shutting the warehouse published on my blog. ?The entire cost model needs to be democratized and a federated design will help.
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James Kane
Re: Is the age of sharing DNA as a way to explore deep ancestry going away?
In one sense this is a passing of the torch from one 'generation' of citizen scientist investigators to a future paradigm.? ? Over the last 15 years privacy restrictions have become significantly stricter. The ways of using 3rd party solutions and contributed resources from the citizen scientist old guard are being deprecated.??From a data perspective we wait for the transition over to economical and less noisy long read based solutions.
Creating a secured community sponsored cloud based operation requires a somewhat different technical skillset than what has been utilized in the past.? With the majority of the data now residing in government or commercial, you could say healthcare, systems potential citizen scientist initiatives will most likely need to be run under an academic umbrella in order to mine those secured resources which are much larger and complete than from firms such as 23andMe and FTDNA.??
Here in the US auxiliary funding for the NIH All of Us program(s) would facilitate the ongoing and potential expansion of research associated with that initiative. In the current environment the community needs to be more aggressive on making sure that funding is made available to support continued work and development in the public domain genetic genealogy environment.
-Wayne
On Saturday, April 12, 2025 at 04:04:52 PM EDT, Sytze Brouwer via groups.io <brouwer.sytze@...> wrote:
Hello, just a lurker first time contributer.
I wouldn't be opposed to looking at? seeing what options there would be to setting up a new grassroots project in light of all the closures and companies going out of business.
I fear that would cost money, which as a young guy whos starting a family would be hard lol.
But more unlikely things have happened. With the right collaboration of people with some skills, who knows
With data sharing sites like GDEMatch and the shenanigans with 23andMe being sold to companies for their use and now YDNA Warehouse going away, I wonder what the future of being able to share DNA data in a non-commercial way for ancestral research is going to be, esp on the Y side vs autosomal?? The trend seems to be constriction for usually financial reasons, so for the sties left will they eventually succumb, going the way of the Y chromosome itself?? Will they need to move to some kind of subscription model to survive vs being sold? Just an afternoon thought
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Re: Is the age of sharing DNA as a way to explore deep ancestry going away?
Hello, just a lurker first time contributer.
I wouldn't be opposed to looking at? seeing what options there would be to setting up a new grassroots project in light of all the closures and companies going out of business.
I fear that would cost money, which as a young guy whos starting a family would be hard lol.
But more unlikely things have happened. With the right collaboration of people with some skills, who knows
With data sharing sites like GDEMatch and the shenanigans with 23andMe being sold to companies for their use and now YDNA Warehouse going away, I wonder what the future of being able to share DNA data in a non-commercial way for ancestral research is going to be, esp on the Y side vs autosomal?? The trend seems to be constriction for usually financial reasons, so for the sties left will they eventually succumb, going the way of the Y chromosome itself?? Will they need to move to some kind of subscription model to survive vs being sold? Just an afternoon thought
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Is the age of sharing DNA as a way to explore deep ancestry going away?
With data sharing sites like GDEMatch and the shenanigans with 23andMe being sold to companies for their use and now YDNA Warehouse going away, I wonder what the future of being able to share DNA data in a non-commercial way for ancestral research is going to be, esp on the Y side vs autosomal? ?The trend seems to be constriction for usually financial reasons, so for the sties left will they eventually succumb, going the way of the Y chromosome itself? ?Will they need to move to some kind of subscription model to survive vs being sold? Just an afternoon thought
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Re: Phylogeography update: R-Z18
? “The arrival of new groups (R-L47, R-Z326, various under R-Z8) continues during the Viking period and later.”
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On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:37?PM, Inventorb via groups.io <williamwarman@...> wrote:
? ?Brian this name actually came from the Picton Family DNA site, as I read your response I was going to use William Picton.
Ribe 3 ties France. Denmark, ?Iceland, England Wales in my Family Thank You BillOn Apr 9, 2025, at 6:54?AM, William Warman <williamwarman@...> wrote:
?Brian this name actually came from the Picton Family DNA site, as I read your response I was going to use William Picton.
On Apr 8, 2025, at 11:23?PM, Brian Swann via groups.io <brian_swann@...> wrote:
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Re: Phylogeography update: R-Z18
“The arrival of new groups (R-L47, R-Z326, various under R-Z8) continues during the Viking period and later.”
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On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:37?PM, Inventorb via groups.io <williamwarman@...> wrote:
? ?Brian this name actually came from the Picton Family DNA site, as I read your response I was going to use William Picton.
Ribe 3 ties France. Denmark, ?Iceland, England Wales in my Family Thank You BillOn Apr 9, 2025, at 6:54?AM, William Warman <williamwarman@...> wrote:
?Brian this name actually came from the Picton Family DNA site, as I read your response I was going to use William Picton.
On Apr 8, 2025, at 11:23?PM, Brian Swann via groups.io <brian_swann@...> wrote:
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Re: Phylogeography update: R-Z18
? ? Brian this name actually came from the Picton Family DNA site, as I read your response I was going to use William Picton. Ribe 3 ties France. Denmark, Iceland, England Wales in my Family Thank You Bill On Apr 9, 2025, at 6:54?AM, William Warman <williamwarman@...> wrote:
?Brian this name actually came from the Picton Family DNA site, as I read your response I was going to use William Picton.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 8, 2025, at 11:23?PM, Brian Swann via groups.io <brian_swann@...> wrote:
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Re: YDNA-Warehouse is shutting down on May 9, 2025
On Apr 11, 2025, at 3:07?PM, Wiredmarys via groups.io <wiredmarys@...> wrote:
The BAM files we uploaded I assume would be good to download to keep.? There is a lot of information up there and I have no idea how I would download or save much of it.
If you uploaded a BAM file you already have a copy from whomever you tested with in the first place. ?The artifacts that are generated and reported on from it are the ?chrY.vcf(.gz) files, which will have a blue download button next to them. ?CP086569.2 are the alternative chm13v2 (hs1) aligned calls. ?Many also have?CM034974.1 aligned calls, which is a R1b-DF27 gapless Y chromosome. ?It would be of minimal value to anyone, as I was the only one looking at that version.
This data is in the SNP & INDEL Markers report, so I’d just recommend the VCF its more portable.
Coverage Analysis is really just diagnostics. ?There are off-the-shelf alternatives that do similar if you download the original BAM yourself.
The Private SNPs report, if populated would be useful to whittle down the results from the VCF to only things on that line. ?Unfortunately, U106 won’t be getting an update to fill these in before the site goes dark.
James
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Specifically what is the Norman StClare culture samples you refer to.
I would appreciate an answer.
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025, 11:13 Piero Sinclair via , <pierosinclair= [email protected]> wrote: I should add, tracing back to Normandy and being Z346. My breath is baited, am prepared for disappointment. Piero
St Clare ? Norman? I haven't heard of this. I'm Z346 and trace back to the Caithness Earls on the wrong side of the blanket, but haven't heard so far of any St Clair homonyms tracing back to Normandy. Details please, I beg of you! Peter Sinclair
Thanks, Ray. I'm Z346+ and my line goes back to southwest Scotland. It's interesting to see that Z346 shows up in two Swedish Viking, one Norwegian Viking, and one Norman (St Clare) culture samples. It will be interesting to see if future ancient samples are found outside of Scandinavia.
Randy
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Re: YDNA-Warehouse is shutting down on May 9, 2025
Wiredmarys, I believe you speak for a lot of us in expressing gratitude to those who established and maintained the YDNA warehouse. Like you, I have no idea what I would do with these BAM files, which we downloaded (and in some cases were charged for them) so that we could do uploads to enable experts to analyze the information and use it to advance knowledge concerning the origins of participants in the project.
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Most of us will still have the raw data via the FTDNA website and presumably could in the future request from FTDNA a BAM file if a new database is created where the BAM file would be of value?
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Most of the data from BigY tests I sponsored are also on YFull but I am not up-to-date on the status of YFull, a Russian consultancy. For the several Big Y kits I manage that are R-U106, it was not clear that uploading to YFull was that much value added over the splendid analyses done by Iain and other admins of the RU-106 project. (My RU-106 kits are for several Sproule/Sprowl cousins, two Bryan cousins, and one Cochran/Cockerham cousin).
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Some men obtained their YDNA results from total genome studies, rather than Y-specific tests by FTDNA, and (like the YDNA warehouse that is shutting down) YFull was a place where YDNA test results from different test companies could be uploaded for comparative analysis.
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Linda Horton
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On 04/11/2025 4:07 PM EDT Wiredmarys via groups.io <wiredmarys@...> wrote:
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Hi, I haven't replied to messages here in ages. I hope this is correct. I'm interested in this subject and did go to the Warehouse. Surprised that I actually could log in but...Now I don't know what will do me the most good to keep record of.? The BAM files we uploaded I assume would be good to download to keep.? There is a lot of information up there and I have no idea how I would download or save much of it. It would be pages and pages of screenshots which I doubt would do me any good.? ?I have three studies up there two managed by Iian McDonald and Robert mcMillan, three have James Kane's name on them.? I know those folks are going to know what to download for all the wonderful study they have done. Just wondering what is necessary for us to save that would be helpful. Thanks for all the great work you all do.
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Re: YDNA-Warehouse is shutting down on May 9, 2025
Hi, I haven't replied to messages here in ages. I hope this is correct. I'm interested in this subject and did go to the Warehouse. Surprised that I actually could log in but...Now I don't know what will do me the most good to keep record of.? The BAM files we uploaded I assume would be good to download to keep.? There is a lot of information up there and I have no idea how I would download or save much of it. It would be pages and pages of screenshots which I doubt would do me any good.? ?I have three studies up there two managed by Iian McDonald and Robert mcMillan, three have James Kane's name on them.? I know those folks are going to know what to download for all the wonderful study they have done. Just wondering what is necessary for us to save that would be helpful. Thanks for all the great work you all do.
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Re: YDNA-Warehouse is shutting down on May 9, 2025
James, I’m so sorry to hear this. The work that the YDNA-Warehouse has enabled has been wonderful. Thank you to all who have been pioneers in this field and have dedicated so much time and effort to the field, tremendous strides have been made. All my best, Jennifer Maxwell
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Re: YDNA-Warehouse is shutting down on May 9, 2025
Some of you know that my father had a number of cancers and treatments. That being said, I have finally ordered an upgraded Y test for his full sibling brother who has never had cancer and therefore no treatments.?
I won't add him to any projects since he is still living and not my father, but he will show up as a match for my dad but sadly, results will be in after the shutdown. I've always been curious if there are changes in dad's dna from his radiation treatments.
Thanks again.
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Re: YDNA-Warehouse is shutting down on May 9, 2025
I'm very sorry to hear that it is shutting down. I've learned so much from you all, and appreciate all of your time. If it helps to know, I would be willing to be a paid subscriber.
Thank you all for your past input.
Linda Bucher Wheaton
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Re: Phylogeography update: R-Z18
R-L493
lain, and Vince ? Thank You for your hard-work and response.? ? Without getting into the DNA and History behind this research I will honor your work with this response. ? In the past family stories are passed along or whispered about.? ? Then the modern Internet allows for ancient writings, documents, etc a deeper search. As a person reviews these documents and finds an official document that states a similar phrase or story a researcher becomes enlightened. ? As an Inventor I always respect a person’s teachings and methods. I try to improve on the teachings and methods by instinct. This is not to disrespect anyone’s work but to advance the science and answer one question. ? Why didn’t I think of that? ? When this question is finally answered it means? “Utility Patent.” ? Just look at CeCe Moore’s accomplishments ? Respectfully? Bill Warman Inventor ?
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On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:13?AM, Iain via groups.io <gubbins@...> wrote:
? Hi Bill, ? As Vince says, forget any link between Y-DNA and mt-DNA haplogroups. These are two completely separate beasts, and you should treat them as entirely unlinked. Unless you are talking about two brothers, any link that you find between the Y-DNA and mt-DNA haplogroups of two individuals is purely co-incidental. ? To see the logic in this, just take the family trees of two people from anywhere in Europe. Typically, their Y-DNA and mt-DNA ancestries are liable to be hundreds of miles apart after only a couple of centuries. After 1000 years, they will probably come from completely separate countries. You are discussing 4500 years in the past, at which point they might well come from entirely different continents. So I would stress that you are going the wrong away about things here. ? Best wishes, ? Iain.
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Re: YDNA-Warehouse is shutting down on May 9, 2025
On Apr 11, 2025, at 6:56?AM, Leake Little via groups.io <leakelittle@...> wrote:
I'm guessing it was partially funded by NSF grants previously but I have no detailed knowledge at this point... Had hoped it was getting new life recently but priorities change and it must be expensive to maintain in the cloud.? It was fun while it lasted (citizen science).
_._,_._,_
For the record the warehouse has 100% been funded by a single private entity. ?A decision has been made to cut all discretionary spending until normality returns.
I am in early design stages for a federated system where users self-host the data, but it’s probably years from public demonstration much less production. ?A public project will go up on GitHub when actual development starts.
James
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Re: YDNA-Warehouse is shutting down on May 9, 2025
I'm guessing it was partially funded by NSF grants previously but I have no detailed knowledge at this point... Had hoped it was getting new life recently but priorities change and it must be expensive to maintain in the cloud.? It was fun while it lasted (citizen science).
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I should add, tracing back to Normandy and being Z346. My breath is baited, am prepared for disappointment. Piero
St Clare ? Norman? I haven't heard of this. I'm Z346 and trace back to the Caithness Earls on the wrong side of the blanket, but haven't heard so far of any St Clair homonyms tracing back to Normandy. Details please, I beg of you! Peter Sinclair
Thanks, Ray. I'm Z346+ and my line goes back to southwest Scotland. It's interesting to see that Z346 shows up in two Swedish Viking, one Norwegian Viking, and one Norman (St Clare) culture samples. It will be interesting to see if future ancient samples are found outside of Scandinavia.
Randy
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St Clare ? Norman? I haven't heard of this. I'm Z346 and trace back to the Caithness Earls on the wrong side of the blanket, but haven't heard so far of any St Clair homonyms tracing back to Normandy. Details please, I beg of you! Peter Sinclair
Thanks, Ray. I'm Z346+ and my line goes back to southwest Scotland. It's interesting to see that Z346 shows up in two Swedish Viking, one Norwegian Viking, and one Norman (St Clare) culture samples. It will be interesting to see if future ancient samples are found outside of Scandinavia.
Randy
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Wayne
Inventorb
Linda R Horton
Wiredmarys
Leake Little