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Re: Name associated with a haplogroup
Thank you John. On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 12:31?PM John T via <z343snp=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Name associated with a haplogroup
Hello Mike First looking at my own blocktree; A17384 is one of 11 equivalent SNPs in the R-BY79404 branch. FTDNA will always use the lead SNP, unless your result for that one failed QA, in which case they will use one of the equivalent SNPs for your reported result. Discover Haplotree Reports lists only 5 equivalent SNPs, so the other 6 must have been added in the last week or so since it was last updated. Easy to see which projects men are members of; here. Kit numbers and names are protected by privacy rules. However the kit number and surname can sometimes be found in projects. 63] FGC10367>Z319>Z8171>CTS2509>FGC363>FGC23165>FT74086>BY3730>Y132016>BY85532>BY79404
When you get your results, you will likely see them all as matches. Click on each name, and you will get their email addresses. Kind regards John |
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Name associated with a haplogroup
Hello everyone,
I ordered my Big-Y about 9 weeks ago. I was supposed to get the first results (111) about now, but something went wrong in the lab. So, they needed to re-test the sample which takes a few more weeks. Ok, I can deal with that, it happens.? I originally took the Nebula Genomics DNA test prior to the FTDNA test. I got the Y-DNA haplogroup of?R-A17384, which is how I became associated with the U106 group. So, I did a search on the FTDNA site to see if it came up with any info. First off it changed the R-A17384 to?R-BY79404, which is fine. It says: The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 1550 CE. He is the most recent paternal line ancestor of all members of this group. There are 3 DNA tested descendants, and they specified that their earliest known origins are from: Germany and 2 from unknown countries. I then called the Big-Y customer service thinking I could get a name of either the man in 1550 or one of the 3 tested with my haplogroup. Nope! No can do. Must wait for the results. Bummer.
He did say I could search the haplogroup for a name but didn't say how to go about it. Any ideas? I've had this brick wall for over 20 years, searching for my 3rd GG parents on my father's side. Below is the page I was referring to. Thank you, Mike |
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Re: Information Regarding FT209276
& don¡¯t let my idiosyncratic communication style discourage you; connect with me cousin; bridge the gap of science & history! Chapter 1: My Ancestry admixture estimator says I¡¯m first most Scottish, & second French. I thought ¡°no.. this is all wrong, where is the English?¡± I attributed it my grandmother¡¯s hillbilly roots. Could be more to the story though. Great-Great Grandad was indeed an Ulster-Man. *we just recently left an era when myths like the Black Irish of Spain were prevalent. The annals of historical documentation aren¡¯t really that reliable.? before genetic studies the only way to tell if you were Norman was to look in the mirror, if handsome then yes. Now science has progressed past silly superficial tests like these (because we know factors with genetic expression can lead to facial asymmetry.)? |
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Re: Information Regarding FT209276
Wow, I¡¯ve been waiting 29 years for this moment. Personalty I¡¯ve always had an affinity with the Norman & Saxon culture but thought I was Celtic Irish. I¡¯ve come to learn much since then; so what are we Corded Ware or Bell Beaker is the question right? Bell Beaker could¡¯ve moved into Britain as early as the copper age, we don¡¯t know. Corded Ware could¡¯ve stuck around in Scandinavia & Germany; became Norman or Frankish and came with that invasion. Or could¡¯ve been Vikings.. Or could¡¯ve been the people we call the Anglo-Saxon migration (my personality theory is this migration took place for centuries & was a lot earlier than literature suggests.) We also have the Flemish everyone forgets about, basically the Dutch Rhine Beakers children (unless that¡¯s a debunked theory.) So, yeah I don¡¯t know my surname might go a translation of the German name Amann. Did we arrive with the Romans? I don¡¯t know, I was thinking this morning in my head ¡°man I¡¯m probably French on my agnate and maternal side.¡± The gift of Soothsaying; Epigenetic memory; or do we exist in a predictable universe; who can say?
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Re: Mega tsunami with 65ft waves may have wiped out Stone Age populations in Britain | The Independent
Piero Sinclair
Despite my facile comment I think this subject fascinating. Thanks Iain. On Thu, 25 Jan 2024, 09:51 Iain via , <gubbins=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Mega tsunami with 65ft waves may have wiped out Stone Age populations in Britain | The Independent
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI went for a walk over some of those deposits this morning. The effects on my particular part of eastern Scotland were very mild. The tsunami came from the north and it's not until you reach Shetland that you get 65ft waves. The Storegga Slides have also been credited with the final demise of Doggerland, and would have caused massive disruption to coastal communities around the North Sea. The further north you go, the more the impact would have been felt, as waves were higher and communities become more coastal. A key finding from this new study is that the result could only be replicated by a high tide (in Northumberland), which presumes close to a low tide in either Shetland or the Thames Estuary, or close to a low tide in both. High tide brings greater inundation of the land; but low tide was a time for foraging on the seashore, potentially bringing greater mortality. The tsunami occurred in late autumn, and people may still have been collecting kelp or shellfish. River and marine flood mythologies are common across the ancient world, though their details vary as much as the causes of flooding. Various marine transgressions have been proposed for these stories, including the Atlantis myth. Storm surges are also a frequent occurrence in the British Isles and can lead to substantial mortality and damage even in modern times (e.g. the 1953 North Sea floods). The south-west was also affected by the 1755 Lisbon earthquake tsunami. The origins of these would have remained a mystery to local residents and (as with the 1607 Bristol Channel floods) were normally interpreted as divine punishment, creating the perfect scenarios for such myths to arise. - Iain. |
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Re: Mega tsunami with 65ft waves may have wiped out Stone Age populations in Britain | The Independent
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMaybe this is the origin of the story later told by Plato and learned from priests in Ancient Egypt that relates to the destruction of Atlantis ¡°beyond the pillars of Hercules¡± (Gibraltar).?Speculative but perhaps it became a story that was retold over generations.
Dan
On Jan 24, 2024, at 12:02?PM, Mike Tryon <michaeldtryon@...> wrote: ?The original research paper that this news item is based on is here:
The newspaper headline is clearly meant to attract attention rather than convey the conclusions of the study. The very well studied Storegga Slide of 8150 BP, caused a large tsunami which resulted in wave heights of 2-4 meters along the coast of Scotland. The associated run-up of many kilometers likely inundated coastal mesolithic communities and caused significant loss of life and resources. This may have contributed to short-term population decline in coastal Scotland, coinciding with a much broader population decline associated with a period of decreasing global temperature that began about 8200 BP and lasted for a few hundred years. Mike |
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Re: Mega tsunami with 65ft waves may have wiped out Stone Age populations in Britain | The Independent
The original research paper that this news item is based on is here:
The newspaper headline is clearly meant to attract attention rather than convey the conclusions of the study. The very well studied Storegga Slide of 8150 BP, caused a large tsunami which resulted in wave heights of 2-4 meters along the coast of Scotland. The associated run-up of many kilometers likely inundated coastal mesolithic communities and caused significant loss of life and resources. This may have contributed to short-term population decline in coastal Scotland, coinciding with a much broader population decline associated with a period of decreasing global temperature that began about 8200 BP and lasted for a few hundred years. Mike |
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Re: Mega tsunami with 65ft waves may have wiped out Stone Age populations in Britain | The Independent
Piero Sinclair
Fortunately I live on the top of a cliff. On Wed, 24 Jan 2024, 13:25 Dan D., <dan_draggon@...> wrote:
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Mega tsunami with 65ft waves may have wiped out Stone Age populations in Britain | The Independent
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/mega-tsunami-stone-age-britain-b2483031.html
Dan D.
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Re: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06865-0
Hi Rob,
BAM files of these aDNA are available in the European Nucleotide Archives (ENA) database: Among these aDNAs, NEO752 was yet analyzed by FTDNA (Mades? 752): R-Z18 (3 positive reads for U106, then for R-Z18: 1 positive read for Z16, Z370, 2 for Z371, 3 for Z369). I don't know (but I assume that was the case) if the other R1b aDNAs in this study were analyzed by FTDNA (we can no longer see the R-P310 aDNAs in the corresponding public Discover tree...). However, several forums address this paper: (see page 4) An article from this same scientific project deals more specifically with Danish aDNAs: Cheers, Ewenn |
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Re: BigY - is it worth it?
There'd 5 of us now upgraded to the 111 level a few only at 67.? At 37 level many matches we don't recognise as belonging to our surname. Will look at the next sale was 200 dollar. On Wed, 17 Jan 2024, 10:34 Iain via , <gubbins=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: BigY - is it worth it?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Jason, Being the first person in your Y-STR match set to upgrade can be very useful in terms of deeper ancestry, as it puts your group in a wider geographical context. For the people in your wider haplogroup, this also establishes the existence of a new branch, which can be very instructive when we start to look at origins. To clarify the point on Y-STR matches, your matches themselves are not upgraded. So if a person has only taken a Y-37 test, then you will still only see them on your Y-37 matches page. However, if you have only tested Y-37 (as Damir has) but your matches have tested to Y-67, Y-111 or BigY themselves, then upgrading to BigY will let you see these matches at the level to which they've tested. Deceased persons' DNA is an increasing problem in genetic genealogy. The average age of new testers seems to be about 65, perhaps because something about retirement triggers a genealogical interest! However, this means that (in the US) the average tester will only live around 15-20 years, so anyone you see with a four-digit kit number is already more likely to be dead than alive. Unfortunately, there's very little that can be done, as the testing companies are generally very hesitant to use someone's DNA without clear instruction from that person or their official respresentative. This is why it is very important that testers today name a beneficiary to their account. This can be as simple as making sure the account login is passed onto your descendants, or it can (preferably also) be set up in your account: https://help.familytreedna.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004731636-Beneficiary-Information-Tab Cheers, Iain. |
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Re: BigY - is it worth it?
@iain? can I just clarify what you said above. If I upgrade to the big y I will be the first within my group to do so.? I have been thinking about this for a while and probably will next sale. But you mentioned y37 matches being upgraded to the y111 level. This would be amazing as a tester at the level is now deceased. Jason On Wed, 17 Jan 2024, 09:14 Dado, <dstanic@...> wrote:
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Re: BigY - is it worth it?
Thanks for the answers. Ian as always professional and comprehensive, inspiring. Yes I am Croatian and It would be nice if I can contribute a little to the understanding of the history of that branch. All things considered, there is no choice but to make BigY. It is decided!? |
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Re: BigY - is it worth it?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWell,Speaking of the devil (ahem, vampire), ha-ha, my own BigY test result is slowly paying off. I used to get a match before with someone from Slovenia, but now I have a newer match, one branch below the former, therefore in early medieval times, with someone
from the Czech Republic.?
As we can see, ¡°the dead travel fast¡±, as Bram Stoker would have put it elegantly back in 1897 (when my paternal grandfather was actually born in Romania - so I can say he was born two centuries ago).
Leaving all jokes aside, it is nice to test and then lay back and wait for miracles to happen (novel matches).
A retired (¡°Bohemian¡±-Transylvanian) vampire,
Dan D.
On Jan 16, 2024, at 4:52?PM, Wayne via groups.io <dna_wayne@...> wrote: ?
Another item to add to Iain's comment about southern and east European U106 individuals getting BigY results is that via the haplogroup branching one may be able to link back to a more northern or western European point of
origin.? Would your line be a potential descendant of say a Christian crusader?? ?As we get more test results available this type of hypothesis can be investigated.? ?
We would also be looking for new lineages which might take the potential "vampire" association away from one of the group admins. He just has not lived up to Vlad the Impaler's legacy. It has been awhile since we have had to address potential U106 lineages which needed to be buried in strange ways - well outside of the royal lines which require excessive amounts of elaborate formality. -Wayne K
On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 03:11:35 PM EST, Iain via groups.io <gubbins@...> wrote:
Hi Damir,
Martin correctly describes your situation. I'll just add a few points.
You may want to see this alternative visualisation from Family Tree DNA of what the family tree of R-BY5715 looks like: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-BY5715/tree If you look in the scientific details, you will see that your R-BY5715 family is about 2000 years old, and if you look in the variants tab, you will see that BY5719 is one of the SNPs that defines the R-BY5715 haplogroup.
YSeq's R-U106 super-panel is a good way for people to cheaply test down to a recent haplogroup. We recommend this test for people who aren't planning to take a BigY test but are interested in the deep history of their families. The benefits of this are that we have a fairly clear idea of the origins of the high-level haplogroups, so we can roughly tell where your ancestors were thousands of years ago (I think I've explained that background to you already). However, as we approach the present, we paradoxically have less information to work with, because we have fewer testers on which to base our judgements.
However, your YSeq tests are simply a static, yes/no test for a set of haplogroups. The BigY test is a discovery test. The test will scan approximately a quarter of your Y chromosome and look for new SNP mutations that you hold. With this, new haplogroups can be formed. You will find your place within R-BY5715, whether that is in a pre-existing haplogroup, or a new haplogroup. Immediately, we can say that you may find relatives closer to the present than 2000 years ago, which is where you are currently stuck.
But also, your SNPs will then be on record when new people come along, allowing new haplogroups to be formed in the future, which we don't know about yet. In future, as more people test, this will let you find new relatives closer to the present. So BigY is partly an investment in the future as well. You will find out more as the years pass.
You will also get a lot of STR results. If you have any Y-37 matches, these will get refined to Y-111, and you can use the leverage of the additional 600-700 STR markers you will get as part of the BigY to see how close you are to any matches who have also tested to these levels. Some of these matches may turn out to be irrelevant, but you may also gain matches if people have tested who are closely related to you, but have many mutations in the first 37 markers.
How useful you'll find that information really depends on what you're interested in, and exactly what the results are (which are unpredictable). Probably we will at least find something interesting for you about where your family was 1000-2000 years ago, perhaps more recently, but there is no guarantee. It can be a bit of a gamble.
Ultimately, there is also a point to kick-starting research in your area. If you have a BigY test, then it gives more reason to the people around you to test as well, since they can then immediately see how they are related to you. After all, the YSeq test you have just taken gets its SNPs from BigY tests: if you want your family's SNPs on the YSeq test, you may want to upgrade to BigY!
I'm also guessing from your name that you are of Croatian heritage. We desparately need people from southern and eastern Europe to upgrade to BigY to address the gross biases we have against testing in these regions. You would be very much doing our statistics a favour by upgrading, and with better statistics we can be clearer about how R-U106 has branched and spread over the last 5000 years. You will also help improve the estimates of how old all of the haplogroups within R-BY5715 are and, with these improved TMRCAs, we may be able to tell more about where R-BY5715 came from and how it spread.
So there are a lot of benefits to upgrading to BigY: a younger branch in the family tree, a better idea of how you are related to other tests, improved measurements of how old your recent chain of haplogroups are, and better statistics for us all. Whether those benefits are worth the cost is up to you!
Best wishes,
Iain. |
Ewenn