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Re: To FTDNA Experts
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThere is a natural tendency within this group to generalise based on everyone¡¯s personal experiences ¨C with a few exceptions, of course. ? When I began all this seriously, in early 2006, I read carefully some key chapters in Chris Pomery¡¯s book ¡°DNA and Family History¡± from 2004. ? In that, he advocated you should start by testing two male ¡°cousins¡± who shared a common male ancestor living about 200 years ago. ? So, I could argue all we have ever been doing since is refining this basic methodology to generate branch patterns today which look like the paper family trees available back in 2004/6. ? And you never know when the statistics of mutational changes in the DNA structure will work in your favour or against you. ? We have one major Swann line in Maryland, with three living brothers from the gateway ancestor who arrived there by 1653/4, who all had male descendants for the next 2-3 generations with the same Christian names, more or less - so a nightmare to disentangle several of the branches, until BigY-700 came along. Some of the Y-SNPs uncovered have been really useful to identify certain male lines unambiguously. ? But my main collaborator on all this in America, had no SNPs to identify a distinct SNP for his own line, beyond one we could date to a transmission event happening in the first generation - about 1673.? Eventually, he tested his son, and did get a SNP, which he thinks now might date to his grandfather being conceived. Altogether, that was 7 generations from the 1673 SNP down to him.? So, we asked Iain what were the odds on this non-mutational event happening.? He said it was uncommon and estimated that over 7 generations it was in the order of 2-3%. ? But if we had just tested a few people, we would have come away with a false impression just how useful BigY-700 testing can be. ? All we are doing is uncovering this truth for ourselves now, in a series of endless repeats.? And gradually it will merge into the background noise of family history and become one of those things that if you have men around, you need to spend the money ¨C and Ancestry cannot deliver this for you no matter how much money they spend on TV advertising and program making. ? Brian ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Myles Twete
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2024 4:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [R1b-U106] To FTDNA Experts ? Hi Mike ? Can you elaborate a bit on this? ? Like, (1) how many GD:3 or closer Y111 matches do/did you have? ? So you¡¯d like to find out who your 3rd great-great was. ? If that ancestor is MRCA with another tester, you are talking about 4th cousins. ? How many male cousins does one expect at that level?? How many of those still living?? How many of those willing or interested to test? ? Think 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th cousins----one or more of these generations may have no other surviving male lines. ? In my case (why I¡¯m an expert, hah! J ), if I only took a BigY test, I would have ZERO Y-matches with anyone I am known to be related to. ? And I have brothers, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th cousins that are known¡none either knew about or were interested in Y-tests.? My cousins and father simply didn¡¯t know about it. ? But I had Y111GD:3 STR matches with very distant matches and after Y500 tests, we knew which SNPs to test for to confirm father¡¯s lines. ? So I began testing for SNPs only on cousins---first my father, then a 1st cousin, 2nd, 3rd, 6th and then a 7th cousin 1x removed. ?Only 2 of these people I knew. ? The further back you can confirm your father¡¯s line on your known tree, the better. ? Testing for a single SNP is cheap and quick at YSEQ---you don¡¯t have to wait for weeks or months for the answer. ? But none of this will get you what you want to know unfortunately unless your BigY matches are close enough related to build a theory of who your 3rd gg was. ? I am at this point myself now. ? I have tested and confirmed my father¡¯s line back to the furthest known male ancestor who had more than 1 known son that we can trace a father¡¯s line that survived. ? And document trails back before this (mid-1600¡¯s) are sketchy at best. ? I have several fairly close BigY matches but all of these trace ancestries a couple hundred miles north. ? And all of them share a MRCA with me that was missing the 2 SNPs that my 7th cousin and I share. ? So there could easily be 100-200 years or so of ancestors before that ancestor in 1654 to get to those other lines. ? Let¡¯s say your 3gr-gf was born about 1830. ?And let¡¯s say your nearest BigY matches show up on the Block Tree with an average of just 4 Private SNPs (PVs) each. ? First estimate is that this is about 330 years before 1960 or so to common ancestor---i.e. about 1630AD. ? But it could be MUCH further back. ? My 7th cousin 1x removed and I each have 2 PVs since our MRCA born in 1654.? That¡¯s about 300 years to each of our births and just 2 PVs each: 150years per SNP. ? But SNPs can happen quickly also---from SNP tests of cousins, I know that BOTH of my 2 SNPs occurred with my father! ? None of this is linear. ? Your 3rd gr-gf was not born that far back in time. ? Your best bet is to spend a LOT of time looking at autosomal matches to find matches with ancestries that point to clues. ? Then develop some possible theories and candidate ancestors and find possible male lines with living males to test (facebook helps here), then reach out to them. ? I¡¯ve never been rejected when I¡¯ve asked for participation with distant cousins to test---even tested a 9th cousin for MTDNA that confirmed mother¡¯s line back to 1640. ? Anyway, hope this helps. ? -Myles Twete ? From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Michael Primm ? Hello, |