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Great news, group! The “DNA Day” sale has started at FTDNA and will last only one week until next Thursday, April 27th. And new this year is a sale on SNP Packs. They are on sale for $89, meaning a $30 savings. The timing of this sale is great for us because they have just released a revamped Z8 SNP pack that will test people down into some of the SNPs we use for branching under S6881. I’ve put all of the ones that pertain to our line down below. If you find it all confusing look at the S6881 Group spreadsheet in our files and that should help you see who is where with these. If you are interested in doing some testing outside of the BigY to see where your matches, or yourself if you haven’t tested this far, will land on our big chart do it now. Speaking of BigY, it is on sale too for $425. That’s a $150 savings. That’s the lowest we were able to get it at Christmas if we got the very best coupons. So if you’ve been waiting for good prices to test SNPs this is a really good time to do it. The bad news is that there are no STR upgrades on sale this time. If you’ve been waiting to upgrade your STRs to Y67 or Y111 you’ll probably want to wait a little while longer. It is possible that they might put those on sale around Father’s Day. I’ve put the list of sale prices below. So encourage your close matches (or yourself) to test now and see what branch they’ll/you’ll land on. Just remember, the SNP packs will help show you what branch you belong on but won’t find your personal SNPs. You’ll need to test BigY for that since it will look for SNPs that are unique to you. SNP packs only test for certain predetermined SNPs. Let me know if there are any questions. Family Finder $59 save $20 mtFull Sequence $149 save $50 Y37 (not upgrade) $129 save $40 Y67 (not upgrade) $209 save $59 Y111 (not upgrade) $289 save $70 BigY $425 save $150 SNP Backbone $79 save $20 SNP Pack $89 save $30 Z8 SNP pack SNPs from our line – U106, Z381, L48, Z9, Z351, Z21, Z22, Z24, Z25, Z29, Z26, Z8, Z1, Z346, Z242, FGC42035, FGC11784, S6881, FGC42045, A11376, A11377, A11378, A8050

Justin, It is also interesting that my name, Liptrap, which is supposed to have derived from Liptrot of Lancashire, also appears in Devonshire. Robert Liptrap had children baptized and then married from 1726 to 1769 in Tiverton John Liptrap had children baptized from 1751 to 1762 in Tavistock I have no information on where these two men originated, nor what happened to their descendants. There was no one by that name in Devonshire for the 1841 Census, nor any later.. Was there a migration from Lancashire to Devonshire in the 17th Century? It would appear, from a map, to be an unusual move with no direct route. But I am in America, and not familiar with migrations in England. Another possibility would be the displacements that occurred during the Civil Wars of 1642-1651. Was there a regiment from Lancashire deployed to Devonshire? Did some of the soldiers find the land – or the women – beautiful, and decide to stay? But you did indicate that the name Horrell (with variations) was found in Devonshire from the 14th Century. Another possibility that we do not like to think about (and I mean no offense) is that one of the soldiers might have left his DNA in Devonshire, and then returned to Lancashire. But I agree with Chris, that until we find more information, it appears that your S6881 ancestor moved from Lancashire to Devonshire between the 7th and 14th Centuries, and assumed his name there. With no “close” matches at 111 STRs the connection appears to be very far back. Looking at my matches at FTDNA yDNA67, most of my connections to group members have a “genetic distance” of 6 or 7. Looking at the TIP estimates of most recent common ancestors (for whatever they might be worth): The Liptrap/Liptrot connection to Latham, Loyd, Todd, Canaday, Graves, and Brooks appears to be about 12 to 14 generations back, Sexton says 18 generations back, which makes no sense if Sexton derived from Graves after the move to America. The only Warburton on my list shows up at a genetic distance of one out of 25, and no TIP report is available. You are not listed, and would therefore be even farther back. 14 Generations back would be someone born about around the year 1500 +/-100. But it might have been earlier. The earliest Liptrot I have found is John Lyptrot, archer, who served in a naval expedition to Brittany in 1377. The first connection to Lancashire is Thomas Liptrot, Sr, witness to a Title Deed in Chorley in 1407. A “Roll of the Manor” from the Duchy of Lancashire, dated 1311, in a book I found in the Genealogical Library in Houston, Texas, published in 1869, lists no Liptrots (or variation) but most of the tenants listed had no last names. I really need to make copies of those lists and post on our website. Something to do on my next trip there. But this shows that the “common folk” of Lancashire were only in the process of assuming last names in 1311. If your ancestor (call him John) moved to Devonshire about that time, he probably took his name after he moved. If he had lived in Horul/Orrell, Lancashire, and had moved, say, to Bolton, he might have been called “John from Orrell.” But if he moved to Devon, that name would have made no sense because no one there would have known where Orrell was. He would more likely have been called “John from Lancashire” and eventually John Lancaster. Sorry for the ramblings. I couldn’t sleep, so I started thinking. Sometimes dangerous. J Jim Liptrap

Hey Chris... I have ancient North African 3% and the same for Middle Eastern. I also carry 34% Scandinavian. My brother carries 17% of that. So, I know the remainder comes from my uterine line. Long shot but I am going to see if my brother is willing to contribute one more sample, perhaps my cousin will be interested. Can't wait for your results to arrive. Taxes- I had to stop, my brain was hurting. So, we have headed out. Funny how genetic genealogy does not cause that same discomfort!! Very happy to learn that you jumped into this next step in testing. Has anyone else here done so?? Cynthia

So, I may be the only one excited about this but after a long wait everyone with a BigY test in our group has their last shared subclade named, updated on their haplogroup badge (if it was a change), and the FTDNA tree is updated to show that subclade. I know I've waited impatiently to have this happen but maybe that's just me. Anyway, I posted a new S6881 tree and a new NGS test (BigY and YElite) group page showing where we all are shared subclade wise and all the singleton SNPs we still need someone to match. Let me know if you have any questions or if I made any mistakes. Thanks. Chris

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Yahoo Group 032017.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated SNP names BigY data 3/20/17 You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Yahoo%20Group%20032017.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 032017.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated tree 3/20/17 You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Tree%20Yahoogroup%20032017.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Chris, Ray, Jim, Peter and all, I have been reading the forums discussions of the LivingDNA testing results coming in. When I saw that Charles and Ray Wing both tossed their DNA into the ring it got my attention. So, I've been thinking about how this might benefit each of us. As a "learning member" I am forever curious. Not only about my line but also each of us in this group. For conversation sake here is an example for consideration. I was looking at the journey through time of our Warburton ancestor with a 847AD connection descending our Latham ancestor with a 1074AD connection and then descending to the Graves men at 1618AD. Might the comparing the info we receive reveal anything, maybe and maybe not. I suspect there will be a lot of information with the breakdown I've seen. I thought it best to throw this onto the table for an open conversation. Your thoughts.... Phew.. with that off my mind I can now turn back to my taxes. The mountain of micro-minutia starring at me is attempting to make me feel guilty, grrrr I'm starring back! LOL OK, I'm back to it. Wishing you a good day! Cynthia

Chris, First, this dilemma I am facing might include an interest for others here. Learning how to use BigY results to it's fullest is a stretch for me. Therefore, I want to ask a specific question with the idea that it might also be helpful for others here too... I am therefore a declared newbie yet an eager student! My brother and cousin are FGC5138. Thanks to BigY we now know of two more ancient surname connections: Warburton and Latham. Both of these lines are from the Lancashire area. We have now crossed an ocean and landed in a solid location. Exciting! My brother and cousin according to the most recent calculation by Dr. Iain McDonald connect with Warburtons in 847AD and Lathams in 1074AD. At Y67 my cousin/brother have the same three Latham matches, one is eliminated by Y111 (6/8step match). There is a new 1/3step match to a Latham man not on this project, and there is a 4/6step match with another Latham who is a member here. Our connection with the Warburton is so ancient that my brother and cousin do not show as a match. We face a brick wall in Georgia genealogically. Our known and proven ancestor dies there in Lincoln County in 1805. My brother and cousin are currently calculated as sharing a common ancestor in 1618AD, they are a 2step match at Y111 with both STRs being fast mutating. In a discussion with Iain a few weeks back he made some suggestions that for a newbie like me was a bit over my head. So, I have been thinking about what he said which has given birth to1k questions. Our objective ultimately is to push past our brick wall and to learn of our Graves Lancashire ancestry. And, of course the story of our ancient journey, if possible. Too broad a goal, I realize. So, because of BigY the analysis of the BAM file by the U106 experts, the further Interpretation by both FGC and Yfull we have learned a lot. And, also from all the many others doing BigY this too has contributed to providing us with greater information. ---Is there any value to further testing someone when they have BigY results, such as increasing from Y67 to Y111? ---Is there more information we can all benefit from by having others in our group include to their BigY results the additional Interpretations of the BAM file by the two labs? (FGC & Yfull) ---What steps might you consider taking next with this information before you, if you were a newbie like me? Thank you for even reading ALL this. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Cynthia

Hi All, Thanks for accepting me into the group. Happy for any advice on any next steps I can take I am tested positive (single SNP ) for FGC11780 and S6881 by YSEQ about 2 years ago but havent had any further test. I'm short of funds for a BigY test now but could run to few further SNPs at YSEQ if it will help. My Y-ancestry goes back to mid-1600s in Devon. Some indication of Horrell surname in Devon few hundred years earlier also. Justin

I have updated the S6881 Tree and the S6881 NGS (next generation sequencing) file to add the most recent results for Bob Amos and Peter Latham. You can find them in the Files section. Thanks. Chris

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Yahoo Group 020717.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated BigY Data 2/7/17 You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Yahoo%20Group%20020717.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 020717.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated Tree 2/7/17 You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Tree%20Yahoogroup%20020717.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /STRs and SNPs.docx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : STRs and SNPs and what you can do with them You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/STRs%20and%20SNPs.docx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /BigY Match Screen.docx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Tour of FTDNA BigY Match Screen You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/BigY%20Match%20Screen.docx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

I wanted to include screen shots with this but Yahoo won't let me so if some of the references make you confused see this document in the files section where I will include them. Okay, I’m going to cover the BigY match screen for those who use it or are confused by it. First off, have very little faith in anything you find on this page. It is full of garbage. There are little nuggets of truth to be gleaned from here so it isn’t a total loss, but unless you really know what you are looking for it isn’t going to be helpful at all. When you get your BigY results make sure that the first thing you do is upload your vcf file to the U106 group to have them analyze it. If that statement sent your head spinning let me know you need help and I’ll give you step by step directions for getting that file and I’ll upload it for you. It’s that important that you do this step! So back to the page that is just 99% confusing and mostly plain wrong. The first thing you’ll see when you go to your BigY Matches tab is a list of people you match to and in the columns across from their name the number of Shared Novel Variants, Known SNP Differences, and Non-Matching Known SNPs. It defaults to show you the match that you share the highest number of Shared Novel Variants and the fewest known SNP differences with. So, if you start out with the first person on your list and click on the number in the Shared Novel Variants column it will open a new screen for you (see examples in file section if needed). On that screen, you will see what novel variants (meaning unnamed SNPs) you share with your match, what novel variants belong just to you, and what novel variants are only his. Let’s start with the shared novel variants. So, I go to the number 32 shared novel variants that the match at the top of my list has and click on it and I find that we actually share 19 SNPs on the pop-up screen. What?!! What happened to the 32 SNPs we share? Who knows? This is the first of many bad pieces of data on this screen. And checking all my matches almost every one of them has a bad number on the first screen. So, let’s deal with that second screen; the one that popped up. The important columns on this screen are the Reference and Genotype columns. First off, know that outside of FTDNA they are going to probably refer to these values as Ancestral and Derived. What this means is that there is a reference sample they use that we all get compared against. So we are looking for any changes or mutations since that reference/ancestral value. If there is a change that will become the Derived value (what it changed to). So if the reference/ancestral value was a G and we now have a derived value of T you will be deemed positive for that SNP. So look down the columns Reference and Genotype and note all the SNPs that have changes. On the screen I posted you’ll only find two SNPs that have changes (the first two) and all the rest are still at the ancestral value. So there is nothing novel about most of these. In fact, in the whole list of 19 that my match and I share only 3 are valid. So we just went from a screen that said 32 variants, to a screen that said 19 variants and when we look at them all only 3 are real. That’s why I say don’t pay attention to those novel variant numbers on your first screen. So one more thing I want to point out, and this is why we have the guys at U106 analyze our results, those 3 variants we share are not very good SNPs and so U106 doesn’t even count them. So what my match and I share just went from 32 to 0. Now, on the Known SNP Difference and Non-Matching Known SNPs, those are pretty much true. If you show 1 Known SNP Difference in your column then it will list that Known SNP in the Non-Matching Known SNP column. You can use it to rule out matches right away by seeing something like Z343 as a non-matching SNP and you will know that this person is not on the same branch as yourself. But it’s hard to keep all those SNP names in your head and know what SNPs matter and what don’t. So don’t use these columns unless you really want to. Instead, go up t

This group is pretty new and we have a lot of new members so I thought I would write a series of posts over the next few weeks on topics covering some genetic genealogy terms and concepts. I’ll put these in our files section after I write them so future members can find the information. I’m going to keep it simple and high level so I will gloss over some details. If anyone wants to ask questions or correct something I’ve said please speak up. I’m just trying to help everyone get the most out of their testing. And if there is something you would like to see explained please ask. I might not know the answer but we can find someone who does. In this one, I'm going to cover a simplified explanation of STRs and SNPs and what you can do with them. STRs (short tandem repeats) are kind of like stutters in our DNA. It's where you have copies of a sequence, like ATAATAATA, and FTDNA tests at certain locations for how many times the sequence repeats. They use that number to decide if people match closely with each other at that location (or marker). The count of how many repeats you have at each marker is where the numbers come from (i.e. DYS534=14) in your Y-STRs results. You can see your results under the Y-STRs results tab on your kit page. On your Matches tab, you can see who you match up with and how closely. So if my kit has a 14 and yours has a 15 at DYS534 we would have one genetic difference at that marker. If yours had 16 then it would be 2 genetic differences. Calculating these numbers is a little more complicated than I am making it seem so if you really want to get into the nitty gritty of how they calculate these numbers contact me and I’ll give you more information. FTDNA adds up all your differences on the markers for each panel tested and that's how you get a total of say 8 differences out of 111 markers with your match. They only report closer matches so if someone exceeds the threshold of mismatches for that panel they won’t report them as a match. These STR repeats are passed on genetically but over time they change. There can be more or less repeats. Some markers are very stable and stay like they are for a long time but others change more quickly. We can predict someone's haplogroup by how closely they match to others and how many repeats there are at certain markers. A big one for U106 is a result of 13, or for S6881 a result of 14, at DYS492. SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms, pronounced “snip”) are mutations at a certain place on the DNA. If ancestrally the nucleotide has been C at that location but has now mutated to T then it would be said that you are positive for that SNP. With these positive SNPs, we can form a sort of tree, building up from the most ancient SNPs to the ones that are mutating in our own families as we have a new child and that nucleotide changes. On average you get a new mutation about every 150 years. It is possible for a father with 2 sons to have one son with a new mutation and the other son not. We can use SNPs to figure out branching within families. But remember the 150 years is just an average so there can be fewer years or more years between mutations. And they don’t happen like clockwork, they happen totally randomly. The good thing about SNPs is that they are passed on from father to son and they rarely mutate back like STRs can do. So STRs can help predict how closely related you are to someone and what your haplogroup might be. But it's the testing of SNPs that tells you exactly what your haplogroup is, not just a prediction. And that shows who you are really related to at some point in time. In your list of matches, you probably have people who look like they might match you but are really on a different branch of the tree. SNP testing answers that question. If you’ve done no SNP testing your kit probably predicts a haplogroup of M269 and is written in red. So FTDNA is predicting you will be at least that haplogroup from your STR results. But that SNP is very, very old (like probably 6,000 years ago). So you want to find SNPs that are younger so you can see who you mig

Just wanted to make you aware of the S6881 panel at YSEQ which I created as a cheap way to fit likely or confirmed S6881 people into the S6881 tree. However I note Chris's tree has some extra SNPs. If it is possible to improve the panel I expect this can be done. 7 is the minimum SNPs for a panel, and I only have 7 and YSEQ weren't happy about the quality of one of them. On the other hand adding SNPs would make the test (currently $103) more expensive. A replacement strategy would be a way to go. In time I would expect to see panels below the S6881 panel to address single name groups e.g. a Warburton panel, or a Graves panel based on their currently known singletons. The role of BIG Y is to do 1 or 2 to identify enough singletons, and then panels to fit the majority of people.

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /Iain Age Speculation.docx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Iain's musings on ages and origins of U106, Z8, S6881 and below. You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/Iain%20Age%20Speculation.docx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

So I don't know how many of you follow the postings on U106 Yahoo Group and how many go to check out what Dr. Iain McDonald is doing for us, but he just put together a fabulous tree of our SNPs. And because we have the most tested clade our SNPs are right at the top so it is really easy to follow. If you go look at the below link you will see what probably at first seems like a confusing mess. But go look over to the right and find your last shared subclade (if you don't know it you should be able to see that from the tree I have posted on our S6881 group). If you hover your mouse over your subclade it will give you the path all the way back to U106. For example, A11376 shows: U106>Z381>Z301>L48>Z9>Z30>Z2>Z7>Z8>Z1>Z364>Z343>FGC11780>S6881>A11376. These are all the major named SNPs from U106 to A11376 in order. You will also see his age predictions for your subclade when you hover your mouse over your subclade. He explains it all at the top of the page. And, a really exciting piece, he puts your SNP on a timeline and tells you above it what were the cultures at that time in the world and what was happening with the climate. So if you want to see what was happening anywhere along your different SNPs as they travel from U106 to your current subclade (these all represent ancestors of yours) go check it out and see. Very fascinating! Tree structure of U106 Tree structure of U106 Abbreviation Boundaries UKRAINE Modern Ukraine and surrounding countries, including Moldova, Belarus, the Dniper-Don valley system. E. BALTIC View on www.jb.man.ac.uk Preview by Yahoo

First, thank you Chris this spreadsheet is a dream come true. It is beautiful!!! Wow how S6881 has grown. Thank you. For those of you who may be working off iPads, I do, there is an easy way to view the Excel spreadsheets As our branch grows there will be more updates to download. Here is what I have learned to do... First, I installed the app "NUMBERS" onto my iPads. When I need to open an Excel file from this Group or the U106 Group here's what I do. From my browser I tap on the file I want to download from here onto my iPad. As it begins to download onto my browser a bar across the top on the right opens asking "Open in Numbers" and I quickly tap that bar. Immediately the file finishes opening in Numbers. And, what you will see before you is magnificent. It is our history unfolding it is our shared descent through time. Remember the Age Analysis will constantly changes as new S6881 testers share their results with our U106 group. This is the best time to learn this as our S6881 spreadsheet is small so it quickly opens. However, the U106 844 spreadsheet will take much longer. I have an iPad Air2 plus an iPad Pro. Hope that helps. Much to cheer about!! Cynthia