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I have updated the S6881 Tree and the S6881 NGS (next generation sequencing) file to add the most recent results for Bob Amos and Peter Latham. You can find them in the Files section. Thanks. Chris

Hi All, Thanks for accepting me into the group. Happy for any advice on any next steps I can take I am tested positive (single SNP ) for FGC11780 and S6881 by YSEQ about 2 years ago but havent had any further test. I'm short of funds for a BigY test now but could run to few further SNPs at YSEQ if it will help. My Y-ancestry goes back to mid-1600s in Devon. Some indication of Horrell surname in Devon few hundred years earlier also. Justin

Chris, First, this dilemma I am facing might include an interest for others here. Learning how to use BigY results to it's fullest is a stretch for me. Therefore, I want to ask a specific question with the idea that it might also be helpful for others here too... I am therefore a declared newbie yet an eager student! My brother and cousin are FGC5138. Thanks to BigY we now know of two more ancient surname connections: Warburton and Latham. Both of these lines are from the Lancashire area. We have now crossed an ocean and landed in a solid location. Exciting! My brother and cousin according to the most recent calculation by Dr. Iain McDonald connect with Warburtons in 847AD and Lathams in 1074AD. At Y67 my cousin/brother have the same three Latham matches, one is eliminated by Y111 (6/8step match). There is a new 1/3step match to a Latham man not on this project, and there is a 4/6step match with another Latham who is a member here. Our connection with the Warburton is so ancient that my brother and cousin do not show as a match. We face a brick wall in Georgia genealogically. Our known and proven ancestor dies there in Lincoln County in 1805. My brother and cousin are currently calculated as sharing a common ancestor in 1618AD, they are a 2step match at Y111 with both STRs being fast mutating. In a discussion with Iain a few weeks back he made some suggestions that for a newbie like me was a bit over my head. So, I have been thinking about what he said which has given birth to1k questions. Our objective ultimately is to push past our brick wall and to learn of our Graves Lancashire ancestry. And, of course the story of our ancient journey, if possible. Too broad a goal, I realize. So, because of BigY the analysis of the BAM file by the U106 experts, the further Interpretation by both FGC and Yfull we have learned a lot. And, also from all the many others doing BigY this too has contributed to providing us with greater information. ---Is there any value to further testing someone when they have BigY results, such as increasing from Y67 to Y111? ---Is there more information we can all benefit from by having others in our group include to their BigY results the additional Interpretations of the BAM file by the two labs? (FGC & Yfull) ---What steps might you consider taking next with this information before you, if you were a newbie like me? Thank you for even reading ALL this. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Cynthia

Chris, Ray, Jim, Peter and all, I have been reading the forums discussions of the LivingDNA testing results coming in. When I saw that Charles and Ray Wing both tossed their DNA into the ring it got my attention. So, I've been thinking about how this might benefit each of us. As a "learning member" I am forever curious. Not only about my line but also each of us in this group. For conversation sake here is an example for consideration. I was looking at the journey through time of our Warburton ancestor with a 847AD connection descending our Latham ancestor with a 1074AD connection and then descending to the Graves men at 1618AD. Might the comparing the info we receive reveal anything, maybe and maybe not. I suspect there will be a lot of information with the breakdown I've seen. I thought it best to throw this onto the table for an open conversation. Your thoughts.... Phew.. with that off my mind I can now turn back to my taxes. The mountain of micro-minutia starring at me is attempting to make me feel guilty, grrrr I'm starring back! LOL OK, I'm back to it. Wishing you a good day! Cynthia

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 032017.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated tree 3/20/17 You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Tree%20Yahoogroup%20032017.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Yahoo Group 032017.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated SNP names BigY data 3/20/17 You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Yahoo%20Group%20032017.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

So, I may be the only one excited about this but after a long wait everyone with a BigY test in our group has their last shared subclade named, updated on their haplogroup badge (if it was a change), and the FTDNA tree is updated to show that subclade. I know I've waited impatiently to have this happen but maybe that's just me. Anyway, I posted a new S6881 tree and a new NGS test (BigY and YElite) group page showing where we all are shared subclade wise and all the singleton SNPs we still need someone to match. Let me know if you have any questions or if I made any mistakes. Thanks. Chris

Hey Chris... I have ancient North African 3% and the same for Middle Eastern. I also carry 34% Scandinavian. My brother carries 17% of that. So, I know the remainder comes from my uterine line. Long shot but I am going to see if my brother is willing to contribute one more sample, perhaps my cousin will be interested. Can't wait for your results to arrive. Taxes- I had to stop, my brain was hurting. So, we have headed out. Funny how genetic genealogy does not cause that same discomfort!! Very happy to learn that you jumped into this next step in testing. Has anyone else here done so?? Cynthia

Justin, It is also interesting that my name, Liptrap, which is supposed to have derived from Liptrot of Lancashire, also appears in Devonshire. Robert Liptrap had children baptized and then married from 1726 to 1769 in Tiverton John Liptrap had children baptized from 1751 to 1762 in Tavistock I have no information on where these two men originated, nor what happened to their descendants. There was no one by that name in Devonshire for the 1841 Census, nor any later.. Was there a migration from Lancashire to Devonshire in the 17th Century? It would appear, from a map, to be an unusual move with no direct route. But I am in America, and not familiar with migrations in England. Another possibility would be the displacements that occurred during the Civil Wars of 1642-1651. Was there a regiment from Lancashire deployed to Devonshire? Did some of the soldiers find the land – or the women – beautiful, and decide to stay? But you did indicate that the name Horrell (with variations) was found in Devonshire from the 14th Century. Another possibility that we do not like to think about (and I mean no offense) is that one of the soldiers might have left his DNA in Devonshire, and then returned to Lancashire. But I agree with Chris, that until we find more information, it appears that your S6881 ancestor moved from Lancashire to Devonshire between the 7th and 14th Centuries, and assumed his name there. With no “close” matches at 111 STRs the connection appears to be very far back. Looking at my matches at FTDNA yDNA67, most of my connections to group members have a “genetic distance” of 6 or 7. Looking at the TIP estimates of most recent common ancestors (for whatever they might be worth): The Liptrap/Liptrot connection to Latham, Loyd, Todd, Canaday, Graves, and Brooks appears to be about 12 to 14 generations back, Sexton says 18 generations back, which makes no sense if Sexton derived from Graves after the move to America. The only Warburton on my list shows up at a genetic distance of one out of 25, and no TIP report is available. You are not listed, and would therefore be even farther back. 14 Generations back would be someone born about around the year 1500 +/-100. But it might have been earlier. The earliest Liptrot I have found is John Lyptrot, archer, who served in a naval expedition to Brittany in 1377. The first connection to Lancashire is Thomas Liptrot, Sr, witness to a Title Deed in Chorley in 1407. A “Roll of the Manor” from the Duchy of Lancashire, dated 1311, in a book I found in the Genealogical Library in Houston, Texas, published in 1869, lists no Liptrots (or variation) but most of the tenants listed had no last names. I really need to make copies of those lists and post on our website. Something to do on my next trip there. But this shows that the “common folk” of Lancashire were only in the process of assuming last names in 1311. If your ancestor (call him John) moved to Devonshire about that time, he probably took his name after he moved. If he had lived in Horul/Orrell, Lancashire, and had moved, say, to Bolton, he might have been called “John from Orrell.” But if he moved to Devon, that name would have made no sense because no one there would have known where Orrell was. He would more likely have been called “John from Lancashire” and eventually John Lancaster. Sorry for the ramblings. I couldn’t sleep, so I started thinking. Sometimes dangerous. J Jim Liptrap

Great news, group! The “DNA Day” sale has started at FTDNA and will last only one week until next Thursday, April 27th. And new this year is a sale on SNP Packs. They are on sale for $89, meaning a $30 savings. The timing of this sale is great for us because they have just released a revamped Z8 SNP pack that will test people down into some of the SNPs we use for branching under S6881. I’ve put all of the ones that pertain to our line down below. If you find it all confusing look at the S6881 Group spreadsheet in our files and that should help you see who is where with these. If you are interested in doing some testing outside of the BigY to see where your matches, or yourself if you haven’t tested this far, will land on our big chart do it now. Speaking of BigY, it is on sale too for $425. That’s a $150 savings. That’s the lowest we were able to get it at Christmas if we got the very best coupons. So if you’ve been waiting for good prices to test SNPs this is a really good time to do it. The bad news is that there are no STR upgrades on sale this time. If you’ve been waiting to upgrade your STRs to Y67 or Y111 you’ll probably want to wait a little while longer. It is possible that they might put those on sale around Father’s Day. I’ve put the list of sale prices below. So encourage your close matches (or yourself) to test now and see what branch they’ll/you’ll land on. Just remember, the SNP packs will help show you what branch you belong on but won’t find your personal SNPs. You’ll need to test BigY for that since it will look for SNPs that are unique to you. SNP packs only test for certain predetermined SNPs. Let me know if there are any questions. Family Finder $59 save $20 mtFull Sequence $149 save $50 Y37 (not upgrade) $129 save $40 Y67 (not upgrade) $209 save $59 Y111 (not upgrade) $289 save $70 BigY $425 save $150 SNP Backbone $79 save $20 SNP Pack $89 save $30 Z8 SNP pack SNPs from our line – U106, Z381, L48, Z9, Z351, Z21, Z22, Z24, Z25, Z29, Z26, Z8, Z1, Z346, Z242, FGC42035, FGC11784, S6881, FGC42045, A11376, A11377, A11378, A8050

25 April 2017 Dear Charles and Iain, Genomic Data & Longobard History Lecture by Professor Patrick J Geary 24 April 2017: Birmingham University UK. I attended this lecture and had a discussion with Professor Geary. I report a summary limited to issues relevant to Yahoo Group Y-DNA R1b1c – U.106 interests. Professor Geary told me that he is not willing to make his lecture slides available to us since the project results described in his lecture are only preliminary, have not yet been published in a peer review journal, and the subject matter is controversial. In response to Dr Iain McDonald's questions that I put to Professor Geary in writing he told me that this project has not carried out Y-DNA testing or sequencing. They have carried out non-recombinant nuclear DNA testing which he said provides vastly more data (100 times more) beyond Haplotypes to deep relationships, and which until recently was vastly more expensive. Professor Geary of Princeton University, USA is a Visiting Professor at Birmingham University, UK. The Genomic Data & Longobard History project is an international multi-disciplinary project headed by Professor Geary. The lecture reported an overview of the project methodology and preliminary findings from 2 reputed Longobard cemeteries: one at Szólád in Hungary and the other at Collegno in Italy. The DNA for assessment was extracted from skull petrous bones (a total of 55). Preliminary analysis has been done of PCA (Principal Component Analysis) plots against POPRES (The Population Reference Sample) modern sample referencing. Quantitative analysis has been carried out for kinship for both cemeteries. Professor Geary described how the archaeologists found that both cemeteries had matching layouts. In both there was a Northern tight genetic group section containing apparently high status men with weapons and women with jewellery (many brooches). There was a second intermediate section where some of the men were buried with weapons, and some of the women with jewellery. The South section in both cemeteries had burials with no such grave goods (other that for 2 women) and were not biologically related to the other groups. At Szólád in Hungary kinship was established in the Northern group between one old man, 2 sons, and 4 grandchildren (one a grand-daughter: No.8). Professor Geary said that there was no correspondence between the Collegno Italian groups and the Szólád Hungarian groups. No discernible genetic pattern could be found. Professor Geary said that any further comment on the results would be speculative. In answer to questions after the lecture Professor Geary said that isotopic investigations including carbon and strontium showed that the Italian burials had adopted an italian diet. None of the Szólád adults were native to Szólád. The children were born and died there. The adult males have the same strontium profile. The women have more variety. The Collegno results are being done now but not back yet. The ancient DNA tallies with radiocarbon dating as 6th century. Dental evidence has been valuable. There is no reason to assume that either cemetery is “typical” Longobard cemetery. The higher proportion of weapons is unusual. More work is needed on other cemeteries in Pannonia or Italy. At Collegno some of the graves have 4 post holes, but not the Southern graves. As seen in Pannonia some of the graves are 6 metres deep. One issue is whether these graves differ from other contemporary local graves. It will be difficult to obtain funding or justify this investigation. In answer to another question Professor Geary said that the next steps will depend on funding. A request has gone to the Hungarian Government for access to petrous bones. It is hoped to investigate a site at Hegyk? near Sopron and Lake Fert?. Professo Geary said that the only other comparable data comes from Anglo-Saxon graves in England which correlates with these Northern group graves. He said that he does not know what this means. Professor Geary said that the graves in these 2 cemeteries may not be 'Lombards'. New ways may be need

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 051617.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated subclade dates You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Tree%20Yahoogroup%20051617.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Yahoo Group 051617.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated subclade dates You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Yahoo%20Group%20051617.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

I have updated both the Tree Structure and the S6881 Group files to include the most recent of Iain's date predictions for subclades. There have been no new BigY tests in a while so nothing else changed on the files but the dates. Thanks. Chris

Hello, everyone, The community chorus in which I sing has a concert tour to Ireland this month. So I planned a few days in England to work on genealogy, primarily in county record offices. But if anyone would be nearby and interested in meeting for dinner, I love to meet my relatives. Wednesday early morning, I arrive in Heathrow and proceed as quickly as I can to Hertford to look for something on another family line. After they close, I’ll take the train back to King’s Cross to transfer to Marylebone for a train out to Aylesbury, where I have a hotel reserved. But I will have a little time for dinner along the way, if someone is near there. Thursday I spend at the Buckinghamshire Archives, and then head by train to Lancashire County, probably to the archives in Preston on Friday, unless someone knows of a good library or other place I should look instead. I will spend Friday night in that area, or possibly Manchester, and take the train back to London Saturday morning, as I have a 2:00 flight from Heathrow to Shannon. If anyone is near that part of London on Wednesday night, Aylesbury Thursday, or Lancashire on Friday evenings. Let me take you to dinner. I will have a FTDNA testing kit with me, hoping to find a male Liptrot willing to be tested to see if he fits in this group. Does anyone know a Liptrot – male – with reasonable expectation of a “clean” genealogical descent from the Lancashire Liptrots and “Mr. S6881”? Thank you Jim Liptrap Houston, Texas, USA

Chris, Hi. I know I have been absent for so so long. There are reasons and we can talk more offline. So, my focus is back on the endless search. I have a question... Where does one go to learn of the significance of a specific marker that has a mutation within a family line? Any ideas, might you already know? I have been searching and did. It find a thing. How are you? Cynthia

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 081117.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated file to include Z8 SNP pack testers You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Tree%20Yahoogroup%20081117.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 070917.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated with new colors from Y-DNA results page, U106 group You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Tree%20Yahoogroup%20070917.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 100517.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : New BigY result, updated dates You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Tree%20Yahoogroup%20100517.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Yahoo Group 100517.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : New BigY result, updated dates You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-S6881/files/S6881%20Yahoo%20Group%20100517.xlsx To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...>