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Re: STR MARKER DYS557 TTTC --
Hi Cynthia,
? ?You've been missed. I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for as far as significance. Yes, in our small little world of S6881 we just have 2 known people with the result of 17 STRs at this marker. But this is a fast mutating marker and it is hard to tell how long this result will hold stable. It is also hard to know if Roy's 16 STRs are that way because they haven't mutated yet from our mode value of 16 or if they had been 17 with the rest of your SNP group in past generations but mutated back to 16 more recently. You have to catch these values mutating to know such a thing so we'll never know. You can use the 17 STRs to guesstimate who might be closer to your line and share your current SNP but as you know from Roy they could have 16 there and still share your last SNP. Am I even coming close to answering the question you are asking or have I misunderstood the question? Hope you are doing well. Chris |
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STR MARKER DYS557 TTTC --
Chris, Hi. I know I have been absent for so so long. There are reasons and we can talk more offline. So, my focus is back on the endless search. I have a question... Where does one go to learn of the significance of a specific marker that has a mutation within a family line? Any ideas, might you already know? I have been searching and did. It find a thing. How are you? Cynthia |
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Re: Anyone available for dinner?.
???????????????????????????????????????????? 6 June 2017 Dear Jim, I should very much like to meet you while you are in the UK.?? For some reason beyond my understanding my replies to you do not seem to be getting through.? I could meet you on Wednesday or later. Kind regards,????????????? Peter Latham. On Monday, 5 June 2017, 10:58, "Peter Latham peter.latham1@... [R1b-S6881]" wrote:
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??????????????????????????????? 5 June 2017 Dear Jim, My reply to your invitation to meet bounced back from the R1b-S6881 site.? So I am re-sending to your personal e.mail address.? I hope that this works out for a meeting.? I will today try to find a specimen male West Lancashire Liptrot for you.? This is rather reminiscent of big game hunting ! Ireland in June should be delightful for your choral tour. Best wises ,?????????????? Peter. ? On Sunday, 4 June 2017, 23:30, Peter Latham wrote: ????????????????????????????????????? 4 June 2017 Dear Jim, I live in West London only about 45 minutes drive from Heathrow airport.? I assume you are referring to being in London this coming Wednesday 7 June.? It would be a shame not to take this opportunity to meet you.? You would be welcome to have a meal at our house, or we could meet anywhere convenient to you.? I am free all day Wednesday apart from a short dentists appointment at 10.30 am.? I could come out to Heathrow to meet you.? I am a member of the Victory Services Club at Marble Arch in central London which is another possibility at any time opf day. I suggest that you reply from your personal e.mail to try to fix a rendezvous, and I can give you contact details. I was brought up in Wigan in West Lancashire and still have many contacts there.? I will try to find a specimen Liptrot for you though time is short. Best wishes,??????????? Peter Latham. On Sunday, 4 June 2017, 20:52, "Chris Noble avalea3@... [R1b-S6881]" wrote:
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Have a wonderful trip, Jim. I'm jealous you get to do this. I hope you find lots of information that you need and maybe even a willing?DNA donor. Best of luck to you. Chris On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:17 AM, 'Jim Liptrap' jim@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Re: Anyone available for dinner?.
??????????????????????????????? 5 June 2017 Dear Jim, My reply to your invitation to meet bounced back from the R1b-S6881 site.? So I am re-sending to your personal e.mail address.? I hope that this works out for a meeting.? I will today try to find a specimen male West Lancashire Liptrot for you.? This is rather reminiscent of big game hunting ! Ireland in June should be delightful for your choral tour. Best wises ,?????????????? Peter. ? On Sunday, 4 June 2017, 23:30, Peter Latham wrote: ????????????????????????????????????? 4 June 2017 Dear Jim, I live in West London only about 45 minutes drive from Heathrow airport.? I assume you are referring to being in London this coming Wednesday 7 June.? It would be a shame not to take this opportunity to meet you.? You would be welcome to have a meal at our house, or we could meet anywhere convenient to you.? I am free all day Wednesday apart from a short dentists appointment at 10.30 am.? I could come out to Heathrow to meet you.? I am a member of the Victory Services Club at Marble Arch in central London which is another possibility at any time opf day. I suggest that you reply from your personal e.mail to try to fix a rendezvous, and I can give you contact details. I was brought up in Wigan in West Lancashire and still have many contacts there.? I will try to find a specimen Liptrot for you though time is short. Best wishes,??????????? Peter Latham. On Sunday, 4 June 2017, 20:52, "Chris Noble avalea3@... [R1b-S6881]" wrote:
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Have a wonderful trip, Jim. I'm jealous you get to do this. I hope you find lots of information that you need and maybe even a willing?DNA donor. Best of luck to you. Chris On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:17 AM, 'Jim Liptrap' jim@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Re: Anyone available for dinner?.
Have a wonderful trip, Jim. I'm jealous you get to do this. I hope you find lots of information that you need and maybe even a willing?DNA donor. Best of luck to you. Chris On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:17 AM, 'Jim Liptrap' jim@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Re: Anyone available for dinner?.
开云体育Hello, everyone, ? The community chorus in which I sing has a concert tour to Ireland this month.? So I planned a few days in England to work on genealogy, primarily in county record offices.? But if anyone would be nearby and interested in meeting for dinner, I love to meet my relatives. ? Wednesday early morning, I arrive in Heathrow and proceed as quickly as I can to? Hertford to look for something on another family line.? After they close, I’ll take the train back to King’s Cross to transfer to Marylebone for a train out to Aylesbury, where I have a hotel reserved.? But I will have a little time for dinner along the way, if someone is near there. ? Thursday I spend at the Buckinghamshire Archives, and then head by train to Lancashire County, probably to the archives in Preston on Friday, unless someone knows of a good library or other place I should look instead.
? I will have a FTDNA testing kit with me, hoping to find a male Liptrot willing to be tested to see if he fits in this group.? Does anyone know a Liptrot – male – with reasonable expectation of a “clean” genealogical descent from the Lancashire Liptrots and “Mr. S6881”? Jim Liptrap Houston, Texas, USA ? ? |
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New file uploaded to R1b-S6881
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Yahoo Group 051617.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated subclade dates You can access this file at the URL: To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...> |
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New file uploaded to R1b-S6881
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 051617.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated subclade dates You can access this file at the URL: To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...> |
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Genomic Data & Longobard History: Professor Geary Lecture
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
25 April 2017
Dear Charles and Iain, Genomic
Data & Longobard History
Lecture
by Professor Patrick J Geary 24 April 2017: Birmingham University UK.
I
attended this lecture and had a discussion with Professor Geary.? I
report a summary limited to issues relevant to Yahoo Group Y-DNA
R1b1c – U.106 interests.
Professor
Geary told me that he is not willing to make his lecture slides
available to us since the project results described in his lecture
are only preliminary, have not yet been published in a peer review
journal, and the subject matter is controversial. ? In response to Dr
Iain McDonald's questions that I put to Professor Geary in writing he
told me that this project has not carried out Y-DNA testing or
sequencing. They have carried out non-recombinant nuclear DNA
testing which he said provides vastly more data (100 times more)
beyond Haplotypes to deep relationships, and which until recently was
vastly more expensive.
Professor
Geary of Princeton University, USA is a Visiting Professor at
Birmingham University, UK. ? The Genomic Data & Longobard History
project is an international multi-disciplinary project headed by
Professor Geary.
The
lecture reported an overview of the project methodology and
preliminary findings from 2 reputed Longobard cemeteries: one at 厂锄ó濒á诲
?in Hungary and the other at Collegno in Italy. The DNA for
assessment was extracted from skull petrous bones (a total of 55).
Preliminary analysis has been done of PCA (Principal Component Analysis) plots against POPRES (The Population Reference Sample) modern
sample referencing. Quantitative analysis has been carried out for
kinship for both cemeteries.
Professor
Geary described how the archaeologists found that both cemeteries had
matching layouts. In both there was a Northern tight genetic group
section containing apparently high status men with weapons and women
with jewellery (many brooches). There was a second intermediate
section where some of the men were buried with weapons, and some of
the women with jewellery. The South section in both cemeteries had
burials with no such grave goods (other that for 2 women) and were
not biologically related to the other groups.
At 厂锄ó濒á诲 in Hungary kinship was established in the Northern group
between one old man, 2 sons, and 4 grandchildren (one a
grand-daughter: No.8).
Professor
Geary said that there was no correspondence between the Collegno
Italian groups and the 厂锄ó濒á诲 Hungarian groups. No discernible
genetic pattern could be found.
Professor
Geary said that any further comment on the results would be
speculative.
In
answer to questions after the lecture Professor Geary said that
isotopic investigations including carbon and strontium showed that
the Italian burials had adopted an italian diet. None of the 厂锄ó濒á诲 adults were native to 厂锄ó濒á诲.? The children were born and died there.
The adult males have the same strontium profile. The women have
more variety. The Collegno results are being done now but not back
yet. The ancient DNA tallies with radiocarbon dating as 6th century.
Dental evidence has been valuable.
There
is no reason to assume that either cemetery is “typical”
Longobard cemetery. The higher proportion of weapons is unusual.
More work is needed on other cemeteries in Pannonia or Italy.
At
Collegno some of the graves have 4 post holes, but not the Southern
graves. As seen in Pannonia some of the graves are 6 metres deep.
One issue is whether these graves differ from other contemporary
local graves. It will be difficult to obtain funding or justify this
investigation.
In
answer to another question Professor Geary said that the next steps
will depend on funding. A request has gone to the Hungarian
Government for access to petrous bones. It is hoped to investigate a
site at Hegyk? near
Sopron and
Lake Fert?.
Professo
Geary said that the only other comparable data comes from Anglo-Saxon
graves in England which correlates with these Northern group graves.
He said that he does not know what this means. Professor Geary said
that the graves in these 2 cemeteries may not be 'Lombards'. New
ways may be needed to think about this period.
I
am not very knowledgeable about genetics. This summary may have
missed some important points and I may have misunderstood some
points. I have omitted the whole of Professor Geary's lecture
summary of previous published historical and archaeological
understanding of the Longobards which he sees his project as testing.
Peter
Latham.
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DNA Day Sale
Great news, group! The “DNA Day” sale has started at FTDNA and will last only one week until next Thursday, April 27th. And new this year is a sale on SNP Packs. They are on sale for $89, meaning a $30 savings. The timing of this sale is great for us because they have just released a revamped Z8 SNP pack that will test people down into some of the SNPs we use for branching under S6881. I’ve put all of the ones that pertain to our line down below. ?If you find it all confusing look at the S6881 Group spreadsheet in our files and that should help you see who is where with these. If you are interested in doing some testing outside of the BigY to see where your matches, or yourself if you haven’t tested this far, will land on our big chart do it now. Speaking of BigY, it is on sale too for $425. That’s a $150 savings. That’s the lowest we were able to get it at Christmas if we got the very best coupons. So if you’ve been waiting for good prices to test SNPs this is a really good time to do it. The bad news is that there are no STR upgrades on sale this time. If you’ve been waiting to upgrade your STRs to Y67 or Y111 you’ll probably want to wait a little while longer. It is possible that they might put those on sale around Father’s Day. I’ve put the list of sale prices below. So encourage your close matches (or yourself) to test now and see what branch they’ll/you’ll land on. Just remember, the SNP packs will help show you what branch you belong on but won’t find your personal SNPs. You’ll need to test BigY for that since it will look for SNPs that are unique to you. SNP packs only test for certain predetermined SNPs. Let me know if there are any questions. ? Family Finder ????????????? $59????? save $20 mtFull Sequence????????? $149??? save $50 Y37 (not upgrade) ? ? ? ?$129??? save $40 Y67 (not upgrade) ? ? ? ?$209 ? ?save $59 Y111 (not upgrade) ? ? ?$289 ? ?save $70 BigY ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $425??? save $150 SNP Backbone ? ? ? ? ? ? $79????? save $20 SNP Pack ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $89????? save $30 ?
Z8 SNP pack SNPs from our line – U106, Z381, L48, Z9, Z351, Z21, Z22, Z24, Z25, Z29, Z26, Z8, Z1, Z346, Z242, FGC42035, FGC11784, S6881, FGC42045, A11376, A11377, A11378, A8050 |
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Re: DNA Testing.
开云体育Hi Jim, One small problem with your theory is that Werburghstune (Warburton) was one of a number of settlements founded by Mercia to defend against the Vikings. Werburgh was a Saxon Saint who is buried in Chester Cathedral. I would also direct you to a post on my own website at?. It refers to a lecture on YouTube about Vikings in Ireland. The crunch is that Vikings in Ireland are rarely R1b. Regards? Ray |
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Re: DNA Testing.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?25 March 2017 Dear Ray, Jim and all, At present it seems to me that there is an equally good case for Mr S.6881 or his descendants being Viking immigrants to West Lancashire or to the Wirral peninsula in Cheshire as part of their well documented largely peaceful immigration from Ireland in the 8th to 10th Centuries up to their expulsion from Dublin in 902 AD. This is very close geographically to the Northern border of largely Anglo-Saxon Mercia at Chester, capital of Cheshire. I recognise that genetically most of these Vikings were very similar to most of the Anglo-Saxons: apart from those Vikings with the known rare DNA feature apparently only found in Vikings - and which appears in many modern West Lancashire and Wirrall Cheshire men with Norse origin surnames recorded in the area for at least 4 centuries. ?See the book 'Viking DNA' and other continuing studies by the Leicester University group including Dr Turi King. ? We know quite a lot about the Vikings' culture from their Sagas and archaeology. ?I do not know how different their culture was from the Anglo-Saxons. ?The dates of conversion to Christianity may differ. ?It is difficult to set aside the stereotype urban myths. It appears that any subtle genetic distinction for most of our ambiguous group may not be resolved for a long time, if ever.? Kind regards, ? ? ? ? ?Peter Latham. ..................................................................................................................................... On Saturday, 25 March 2017, 12:22, "Ray Warburton ray2warburton@... [R1b-S6881]" wrote:
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Hi Jim, Ian is rather remote from the rest of the S6881 Warburtons who are bunched in the A11378 branch. His common ancestor with the rest cannot have been much later than Mr S6881 himself as there are no other known shared SNPs from two Big Ys. What his might tell us about Mr S6881 I'm not sure as I can't rule out some sort of fluke or NPE, but the obvious explanation is there were two separate adoptions of the Warburton name by individuals who were already distantly related. As the name is linked to the village of Warburton it suggests these two related persons came from there, and either their common ancestor also did, or when the village was founded (probably early 10th century) two cousins were amongst the founders. This is why I think Mr S6881 is probably Mercian but by the time of surname adoption his descendants had already spread into Southern Lancashire.
Regards&
nbsp; Ray |
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Re: DNA Testing.
开云体育Hi Jim, Ian is rather remote from the rest of the S6881 Warburtons who are bunched in the A11378 branch. His common ancestor with the rest cannot have been much later than Mr S6881 himself as there are no other known shared SNPs from two Big Ys. What his might tell us about Mr S6881 I'm not sure as I can't rule out some sort of fluke or NPE, but the obvious explanation is there were two separate adoptions of the Warburton name by individuals who were already distantly related. As the name is linked to the village of Warburton it suggests these two related persons came from there, and either their common ancestor also did, or when the village was founded (probably early 10th century) two cousins were amongst the founders. This is why I think Mr S6881 is probably Mercian but by the time of surname adoption his descendants had already spread into Southern Lancashire. Regards? Ray |
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Re: DNA Testing.
开云体育Ray, That line shows on my list as:
Jim ? From: R1b-S6881@... [mailto:R1b-S6881@...]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 2:47 AM To: R1b-S6881@... Subject: [R1b-S6881] Re: DNA Testing. ? ? Jim, ? "The only Warburton on my list shows up at a genetic distance of one out of 25, and no TIP report is available." ? Which kit was that? I only have one Relevant BigY, but Three Warburton SNP panel tests in process which should be interesting. For me SNP results trump STRs every time. ? Regards? Ray |
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Re: DNA Testing.
开云体育Jim, "The only Warburton on my list shows up at a genetic distance of one out of 25, and no TIP report is available." Which kit was that? I only have one Relevant BigY, but Three Warburton SNP panel tests in process which should be interesting. For me SNP results trump STRs every time. Regards? Ray |
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Re: DNA Testing.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?23 March 2017 Dear Justin, Jim and all, A move for a man from West Lancashire to Devon in far SW England before the railways in the Nineteenth Century would indeed be an unusual event, but is conceivable (no pun intended) as Jim points out. One possibility would be check out the names of soldiers who fought in the medieval wars including at Agincourt on the easily searchable University of Southampton website ? I recall that there were Lathams in military service in France and Ireland with aristocrats in counties a long way from Lancashire. ?Remember that such aristocrats often owned family lands acquired by marriage or Royal grant? in distant parts of the country and may have recruited soldiers there who were discharged in other parts of the country on return from overseas . Another possibility is naval service. ?Upholland in Lancashire is close to the port of Liverpool. ?Devon is the next county to Cornwall with the traditional naval base at Plymouth. Skilled tradesmen such as stonemasons travelled extensively to where churches, castles, and palaces were being built. ?Criminals flee to remote areas ! Best wishes, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Peter Latham. On Thursday, 23 March 2017, 19:46, "'Jim Liptrap' jim@... [R1b-S6881]" wrote:
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Justin, It is also interesting that my name, Liptrap, which is supposed to have derived from Liptrot of Lancashire, also appears in Devonshire. ??? Robert Liptrap had children baptized and then married from 1726 to 1769 in Tiverton ??? John Liptrap had children baptized from 1751 to 1762 in Tavistock I have no information on where these two men originated, nor what happened to their descendants.? There was no one by that name in Devonshire for the 1841 Census, nor any later.. Was there a migration from Lancashire to Devonshire in the 17th Century?? It would appear, from a map, to be an unusual move with no direct route.? But I am in America, and not familiar with migrations in England. Another possibility would be the displacements that occurred during the Civil Wars of 1642-1651.? Was there a regiment from Lancashire deployed to Devonshire?? Did some of the soldiers find the land – or the women – beautiful, and decide to stay? But you did indicate that the name Horrell (with variations) was found in Devonshire from the 14th Century. Another possibility that we do not like to think about (and I mean no offense) is that one of the soldiers might have left his DNA in Devonshire, and then returned to Lancashire. But I agree with Chris, that until we find more information, it appears that your S6881 ancestor moved from Lancashire to Devonshire between the 7th and 14th Centuries, and assumed his name there.? With no “close” matches at 111 STRs the connection appears to be very far back. Looking at my matches at FTDNA yDNA67, most of my connections to group members have a “genetic distance” of 6 or 7.? Looking at the TIP estimates of most recent common ancestors (for whatever they might be worth): The Liptrap/Liptrot connection to Latham, Loyd, Todd, Canaday, Graves, and Brooks appears to be about 12 to 14 generations back, Sexton says 18 generations back, which makes no sense if Sexton derived from Graves after the move to America. The only Warburton on my list shows up at a genetic distance of one out of 25, and no TIP report is available. You are not listed, and would therefore be even farther back. 14 Generations back would be someone born about around the year 1500 +/-100.? But it might have been earlier. ? The earliest Liptrot I have found is John Lyptrot, archer, who served in a naval expedition to Brittany in 1377. The first connection to Lancashire is Thomas Liptrot, Sr, witness to a Title Deed in Chorley in 1407. ? A “Roll of the Manor” from the Duchy of Lancashire, dated 1311, in a book I found in the Genealogical Library in Houston, Texas, published in 1869, lists no Liptrots (or variation) ?but most of the tenants listed had no last names.? I really need to make copies of those lists and post on our website.? Something to do on my next trip there. But this shows that the “common folk” of Lancashire were only in the process of assuming last names in 1311.? If your ancestor (call him John) moved to Devonshire about that time, he probably took his name after he moved.? If he had lived in Horul/Orrell, Lancashire, and had moved, say, to Bolton, he might have been called “John from Orrell.” ?But if he moved to Devon, that name would have made no sense because no one there would have known where Orrell was.? He would more likely have been called “John from Lancashire” and eventually John Lancaster. Sorry for the ramblings.? I couldn’t sleep, so I started thinking.? Sometimes dangerous. J Jim Liptrap ? ? ? ? From: R1b-S6881@... [mailto:R1b-S6881@...] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:26 PM To: R1b-S6881@... Subject: Re: [R1b-S6881] LivingDNA Testing. ? ? Hello Peter, All, i was just reading the group posts properly. Do I take it from Peters note above about Upholland and Standish that these parishes look to be the origin of surnames of all the people in this S6881 group except me? I am just very curious to note that the next town to Upholland is Orrell (first recorded as Horul it seems). My family can trace back pretty far in Devon (at least to 17th C with some records from 14C)? but I'm really intrigued now that maybe our name originates in Lancashire with our common ancestor Justin Horrell |
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Re: DNA Testing.
开云体育Justin, It is also interesting that my name, Liptrap, which is supposed to have derived from Liptrot of Lancashire, also appears in Devonshire. ??? Robert Liptrap had children baptized and then married from 1726 to 1769 in Tiverton Looking at my matches at FTDNA yDNA67, most of my connections to group members have a “genetic distance” of 6 or 7.? Looking at the TIP estimates of most recent common ancestors (for whatever they might be worth): Sexton says 18 generations back, which makes no sense if Sexton derived from Graves after the move to America. The only Warburton on my list shows up at a genetic distance of one out of 25, and no TIP report is available. ? The earliest Liptrot I have found is John Lyptrot, archer, who served in a naval expedition to Brittany in 1377. The first connection to Lancashire is Thomas Liptrot, Sr, witness to a Title Deed in Chorley in 1407. ? A “Roll of the Manor” from the Duchy of Lancashire, dated 1311, in a book I found in the Genealogical Library in Houston, Texas, published in 1869, lists no Liptrots (or variation) ?but most of the tenants listed had no last names.? I really need to make copies of those lists and post on our website.? Something to do on my next trip there. Jim Liptrap ? ? ? ? From: R1b-S6881@... [mailto:R1b-S6881@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:26 PM To: R1b-S6881@... Subject: Re: [R1b-S6881] LivingDNA Testing. ? ? Hello Peter, All, |
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Re: LivingDNA Testing.
开云体育It is interesting to check your name on the following site.? Looking just now from a hotel in Queenstown I can't see the maps, but it should show name distribution for 1881 and 1998. However I could see the stats and in both years the number of Orrells was 1100+ (1500 on an NHS site but I can't explain the difference). More interestingly in both years the highest concentration (rate per million) was in Bolton, same as Warburtons. Regards? Ray |
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Re: LivingDNA Testing.
Well, Justin, I can give you my best guess but that would be all it is. Looking at where some of the locational surnames from our group are found to be located in the 1881 census (which is either largely in or near Lancashire) I would hazard a guess that your surname didn't start in Lancashire. And I would say the same about some of the others in our group too. I think the only thing we can guess is that at one point in time our ancestor or ancestors were in the NW England area. Iain speculates: "A11376 and A11377 seem to have a distinct location in western central England, and probably both arose there sometime in the period 629 AD — 1336 AD." So, we are talking a long time ago and before surnames were set. People can wander off to anywhere in all that time. Since some of our group surnames are locational names we know pretty much where those ancestors were when surnames were chosen.?I spent some time looking into things today and Horrell is found largely in Devon, just as your?family history says. There are two different thoughts on where the name came from (and a whole bunch who say the origin of the surname is unknown). Of the two that take a stab at it, one says that it is a Norman-French name from the word "hurer" and means to bristle or stand up, and was a nickname for someone with a good head of hair. The second one says that it is a someone who came from, or lived near Horrell, (muddy hollow) in Devon. You can choose which one you like :) But I think it means that your ancestor had moved out of the NW area before they acquired their surname.? Looking at your STRs I can't get a real sense for what group you fit in with. At 111 STRs you don't really have any close matches with people in our group who have taken a BigY test so I can't really guess where you'll end up. I guess we'll have to wait for your BigY to see where that will be. I think you should just be content with your Devon origin for now.? Chris On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 8:57 AM, jdhorrell@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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