Re: What ChatGPT Thinks of CTS4466
Maybe, it’s hard to say where anything originates. ?The ancient sequencing data is very sparse and pretty noisy. ?We can observer they overlap with modern distributions and attempt to assign a probability, but definitive statements of origin are as likely wrong as they are correct.
The ChatGPT model is aware of terms that go well together in a context, but it appears to me falls flat on its face talking about specific branch nodes within ISOGG’s tree. ?LLM has certainly come a long way but quite honestly the more I play with it the more it seems like a teenager attempting to score well on the essay by baffling the teach with BS.
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On Mar 25, 2023, at 1:41 AM, Phil Millar <pjr_millar@...> wrote:
Elizabeth, I thought the origin of CTS4466 was in Ireland, more particularly, Southern Ireland. I know our ancestors came from mainland Europe, but I thought L21, was probably our last mainland ancestor?
Slan go foill
Phil
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Re: What ChatGPT Thinks of CTS4466
Elizabeth, I thought the origin of CTS4466 was in Ireland, more particularly, Southern Ireland. I know our ancestors came from mainland Europe, but I thought L21, was probably our last mainland ancestor?
Slan go foill
Phil
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Thanks, James.? Quite interesting to see the amount of boilerplate info attached to somewhat inaccurate information.? So where are all the French folks? ?Certainly not
in our project…? Parlez-vous fran?ais as well, Paul? ?? And all those Basque?? And possible famous individuals??
Amusing fabrications.? This level of silliness does very little to give one any sense of faith in the future validity of such an app.
?
As you say, James.? References would be helpful.? Maybe someday.
?
Elizabeth
?
?
I have certainly been far to narrow in my focus on gathering new members. I am going to have to learn Spanish, and perhaps Basque
?
?
?
In case anyone is curious about ChatGPT's "thoughts" on the origins of CTS4466:
Prompt: ?Where did R1b-CTS4466 originate?
R1b-CTS4466 is a subclade of the R1b haplogroup, which is one of the most common Y-chromosome haplogroups among males in Western Europe. The R1b haplogroup is believed
to have originated in the Near East or Southwest Asia, and it spread to Europe during the Neolithic period, around 8,000 years ago, with the arrival of farming.
The R1b-CTS4466 subclade is a more recent branch of R1b and is estimated to have emerged approximately 4,000-4,500 years ago. While the exact origins of R1b-CTS4466
are not entirely clear, it appears to be associated with the spread of the Bell Beaker culture in Western Europe during the Bronze Age.
The Bell Beaker culture is believed to have originated in the Iberian Peninsula and spread throughout much of Western Europe between 2800-1800 BCE. The Bell Beaker
people are known for their distinctive pottery and their use of metalworking technology, such as bronze and copper, as well as for their burial customs.
Genetic studies have found that R1b-CTS4466 is particularly common in Western Europe, including in the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula, and France, which are
regions that were heavily influenced by the Bell Beaker culture. This suggests that R1b-CTS4466 may have been spread by the Bell Beaker people as they migrated throughout Europe during the Bronze Age. However, additional research is needed to confirm this
hypothesis.
Here it’s obviously referencing the Bell Beaker papers and seems unaware of new publications. ?So not too terrible and on par with what 23andMe would tell a tester based on their chip panel.
Asking for examples of famous individuals... it seems to straight be making things up. The locations and people aren’t just implausible but are impossible in some
cases.
Response:
It's not possible to determine the Y-chromosome haplogroup of historical figures without direct genetic testing, so we cannot definitively say who some famous R1b-CTS4466
men were. However, based on the prevalence of the R1b-CTS4466 subclade in certain populations, it is possible that some historical figures were carriers of this haplogroup.
For example, R1b-CTS4466 is relatively common in the British Isles, where it is estimated to be present in about 8% of the male population. Some famous historical
figures who were likely of British or Irish descent and could have carried this haplogroup include King Arthur, William the Conqueror, and St. Patrick.
R1b-CTS4466 is also found at high frequencies in the Basque Country, which is an area in Northern Spain and Southwest France. Some famous Basque people who could have
carried this haplogroup include the explorer Juan Sebastián Elcano and the philosopher Miguel de Unamuno.
It's important to note that while certain haplogroups may be more common in certain populations, it is not possible to determine a person's ancestry or ethnicity based
solely on their haplogroup. Haplogroups are just one piece of genetic information and do not provide a complete picture of a person's genetic heritage.
?
The tool is interesting for sure but has a long way to go before it’s actually useful, especially since it doesn’t provide references for its assertions. ?If anyone would like to see something else from the bot and
doesn’t have an account of their own let me know.
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Re: What ChatGPT Thinks of CTS4466
Thanks, James.? Quite interesting to see the amount of boilerplate info attached to somewhat inaccurate information.? So where are all the French folks? ?Certainly not in our project…? Parlez-vous fran?ais as well, Paul? ?? And all those Basque?? And possible famous individuals?? Amusing fabrications.? This level of silliness does very little to give one any sense of faith in the future validity of such an app. ? As you say, James.? References would be helpful.? Maybe someday. ? Elizabeth ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Paul O'Donnell via groups.io
Sent: 24 March 2023 21:40
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] What ChatGPT Thinks of CTS4466? I have certainly been far to narrow in my focus on gathering new members. I am going to have to learn Spanish, and perhaps Basque ? ? ? In case anyone is curious about ChatGPT's "thoughts" on the origins of CTS4466:
Prompt: ?Where did R1b-CTS4466 originate?
R1b-CTS4466 is a subclade of the R1b haplogroup, which is one of the most common Y-chromosome haplogroups among males in Western Europe. The R1b haplogroup is believed to have originated in the Near East or Southwest Asia, and it spread to Europe during the Neolithic period, around 8,000 years ago, with the arrival of farming. The R1b-CTS4466 subclade is a more recent branch of R1b and is estimated to have emerged approximately 4,000-4,500 years ago. While the exact origins of R1b-CTS4466 are not entirely clear, it appears to be associated with the spread of the Bell Beaker culture in Western Europe during the Bronze Age. The Bell Beaker culture is believed to have originated in the Iberian Peninsula and spread throughout much of Western Europe between 2800-1800 BCE. The Bell Beaker people are known for their distinctive pottery and their use of metalworking technology, such as bronze and copper, as well as for their burial customs. Genetic studies have found that R1b-CTS4466 is particularly common in Western Europe, including in the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula, and France, which are regions that were heavily influenced by the Bell Beaker culture. This suggests that R1b-CTS4466 may have been spread by the Bell Beaker people as they migrated throughout Europe during the Bronze Age. However, additional research is needed to confirm this hypothesis.
Here it’s obviously referencing the Bell Beaker papers and seems unaware of new publications. ?So not too terrible and on par with what 23andMe would tell a tester based on their chip panel. Asking for examples of famous individuals... it seems to straight be making things up. The locations and people aren’t just implausible but are impossible in some cases. Response: It's not possible to determine the Y-chromosome haplogroup of historical figures without direct genetic testing, so we cannot definitively say who some famous R1b-CTS4466 men were. However, based on the prevalence of the R1b-CTS4466 subclade in certain populations, it is possible that some historical figures were carriers of this haplogroup. For example, R1b-CTS4466 is relatively common in the British Isles, where it is estimated to be present in about 8% of the male population. Some famous historical figures who were likely of British or Irish descent and could have carried this haplogroup include King Arthur, William the Conqueror, and St. Patrick. R1b-CTS4466 is also found at high frequencies in the Basque Country, which is an area in Northern Spain and Southwest France. Some famous Basque people who could have carried this haplogroup include the explorer Juan Sebastián Elcano and the philosopher Miguel de Unamuno. It's important to note that while certain haplogroups may be more common in certain populations, it is not possible to determine a person's ancestry or ethnicity based solely on their haplogroup. Haplogroups are just one piece of genetic information and do not provide a complete picture of a person's genetic heritage.
? The tool is interesting for sure but has a long way to go before it’s actually useful, especially since it doesn’t provide references for its assertions. ?If anyone would like to see something else from the bot and doesn’t have an account of their own let me know.
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Re: What ChatGPT Thinks of CTS4466
I have certainly been far to narrow in my focus on gathering new members. I am going to have to learn Spanish, and perhaps Basque ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of James Kane
Sent: Saturday, 25 March 2023 8:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] What ChatGPT Thinks of CTS4466? In case anyone is curious about ChatGPT's "thoughts" on the origins of CTS4466:
Prompt: ?Where did R1b-CTS4466 originate?
R1b-CTS4466 is a subclade of the R1b haplogroup, which is one of the most common Y-chromosome haplogroups among males in Western Europe. The R1b haplogroup is believed to have originated in the Near East or Southwest Asia, and it spread to Europe during the Neolithic period, around 8,000 years ago, with the arrival of farming. The R1b-CTS4466 subclade is a more recent branch of R1b and is estimated to have emerged approximately 4,000-4,500 years ago. While the exact origins of R1b-CTS4466 are not entirely clear, it appears to be associated with the spread of the Bell Beaker culture in Western Europe during the Bronze Age. The Bell Beaker culture is believed to have originated in the Iberian Peninsula and spread throughout much of Western Europe between 2800-1800 BCE. The Bell Beaker people are known for their distinctive pottery and their use of metalworking technology, such as bronze and copper, as well as for their burial customs. Genetic studies have found that R1b-CTS4466 is particularly common in Western Europe, including in the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula, and France, which are regions that were heavily influenced by the Bell Beaker culture. This suggests that R1b-CTS4466 may have been spread by the Bell Beaker people as they migrated throughout Europe during the Bronze Age. However, additional research is needed to confirm this hypothesis.
Here it’s obviously referencing the Bell Beaker papers and seems unaware of new publications. ?So not too terrible and on par with what 23andMe would tell a tester based on their chip panel. Asking for examples of famous individuals... it seems to straight be making things up. The locations and people aren’t just implausible but are impossible in some cases. Response: It's not possible to determine the Y-chromosome haplogroup of historical figures without direct genetic testing, so we cannot definitively say who some famous R1b-CTS4466 men were. However, based on the prevalence of the R1b-CTS4466 subclade in certain populations, it is possible that some historical figures were carriers of this haplogroup. For example, R1b-CTS4466 is relatively common in the British Isles, where it is estimated to be present in about 8% of the male population. Some famous historical figures who were likely of British or Irish descent and could have carried this haplogroup include King Arthur, William the Conqueror, and St. Patrick. R1b-CTS4466 is also found at high frequencies in the Basque Country, which is an area in Northern Spain and Southwest France. Some famous Basque people who could have carried this haplogroup include the explorer Juan Sebastián Elcano and the philosopher Miguel de Unamuno. It's important to note that while certain haplogroups may be more common in certain populations, it is not possible to determine a person's ancestry or ethnicity based solely on their haplogroup. Haplogroups are just one piece of genetic information and do not provide a complete picture of a person's genetic heritage.
? The tool is interesting for sure but has a long way to go before it’s actually useful, especially since it doesn’t provide references for its assertions. ?If anyone would like to see something else from the bot and doesn’t have an account of their own let me know.
|
What ChatGPT Thinks of CTS4466
In case anyone is curious about ChatGPT's "thoughts" on the origins of CTS4466:Prompt: ?Where did R1b-CTS4466 originate?Response: R1b-CTS4466 is a subclade of the R1b haplogroup, which is one of the most common Y-chromosome haplogroups among males in Western Europe. The R1b haplogroup is believed to have originated in the Near East or Southwest Asia, and it spread to Europe during the Neolithic period, around 8,000 years ago, with the arrival of farming. The R1b-CTS4466 subclade is a more recent branch of R1b and is estimated to have emerged approximately 4,000-4,500 years ago. While the exact origins of R1b-CTS4466 are not entirely clear, it appears to be associated with the spread of the Bell Beaker culture in Western Europe during the Bronze Age. The Bell Beaker culture is believed to have originated in the Iberian Peninsula and spread throughout much of Western Europe between 2800-1800 BCE. The Bell Beaker people are known for their distinctive pottery and their use of metalworking technology, such as bronze and copper, as well as for their burial customs. Genetic studies have found that R1b-CTS4466 is particularly common in Western Europe, including in the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula, and France, which are regions that were heavily influenced by the Bell Beaker culture. This suggests that R1b-CTS4466 may have been spread by the Bell Beaker people as they migrated throughout Europe during the Bronze Age. However, additional research is needed to confirm this hypothesis.
Here it’s obviously referencing the Bell Beaker papers and seems unaware of new publications. ?So not too terrible and on par with what 23andMe would tell a tester based on their chip panel. Asking for examples of famous individuals... it seems to straight be making things up. The locations and people aren’t just implausible but are impossible in some cases. Response:
It's not possible to determine the Y-chromosome haplogroup of historical figures without direct genetic testing, so we cannot definitively say who some famous R1b-CTS4466 men were. However, based on the prevalence of the R1b-CTS4466 subclade in certain populations, it is possible that some historical figures were carriers of this haplogroup. For example, R1b-CTS4466 is relatively common in the British Isles, where it is estimated to be present in about 8% of the male population. Some famous historical figures who were likely of British or Irish descent and could have carried this haplogroup include King Arthur, William the Conqueror, and St. Patrick. R1b-CTS4466 is also found at high frequencies in the Basque Country, which is an area in Northern Spain and Southwest France. Some famous Basque people who could have carried this haplogroup include the explorer Juan Sebastián Elcano and the philosopher Miguel de Unamuno. It's important to note that while certain haplogroups may be more common in certain populations, it is not possible to determine a person's ancestry or ethnicity based solely on their haplogroup. Haplogroups are just one piece of genetic information and do not provide a complete picture of a person's genetic heritage.
The tool is interesting for sure but has a long way to go before it’s actually useful, especially since it doesn’t provide references for its assertions. ?If anyone would like to see something else from the bot and doesn’t have an account of their own let me know.
James Kane
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
Thanks, Nigel! I’m glad I’m on the right trail here.?
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On Jan 9, 2023, at 5:43 AM, Nigel McCarthy <ndmccarthy10@...> wrote:
? Dustin, ? Sorry for the delay in comment. Yes I agree with your conclusion, but have nothing to add. Also, you may find 232067 and 259030 split the BY201596Block. ? Nigel ? Sent from for Windows ? ? We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
Dustin, ? Sorry for the delay in comment. Yes I agree with your conclusion, but have nothing to add. Also, you may find 232067 and 259030 split the BY201596Block. ? Nigel ? Sent from for Windows ?
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From: Dustin ShaneSent: 02 January 2023 00:45 To: [email protected]Subject: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] BY201782: Kissane Branch? ? We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
is there a family tree with names in it??
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
I know Nigel is probably going to reply with something that will shed more light on this, but just looking at the data, I almost think we could go ahead and say we've found, if not "the" Kissane/Cashman branch (if there is one?), at least a Kissane/Cashman lineage that stretches back to the time of the adoption of surnames. If SNP BY201782 has a most recent common ancestor for those under it of AD 1150, that's quite near the time of surname adoption. That would mean everyone under that lineage (at this time, two distantly related Kissane/Cashman families and my Sheehan family) are early enough Kissanes to certainly be considered "actual" Kissanes. That's about the same level of genetic evidence we have for Moriarty at this point.
Wondering if there's any ancient genealogical lineage for the Kissane clan. From what I can tell, they were "rent drivers" for the McCarthy kingship, which is why their arms also show the stag.
Dustin, my lineage is O’Sullivan, as Smith is my grandfather’s adopted surname. ? ?Since testing in 2019 I’ve exchanged info with two distant Kissane surname matches, one with SNP BY2880 the other M269. ? ?The Kissane/Cashman point of contact lives in Dublin but has ancestors from Black Valley, Kerry. ? The Kissane point of contact lives in West Australia. ? Both had Sullivan connections in their lineage too. ? My son Evan and I both are confirmed SNP A1133, estimated by FTDNA to have mutated from FT43021 about 1200, as surnames were being adopted. ? ?
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Re: BY201782: Sheehan Branch?
Z38201 for Sheehan Big Y match; 17th century SNP. ??
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
Dustin, my lineage is O’Sullivan, as Smith is my grandfather’s adopted surname. ? ?Since testing in 2019 I’ve exchanged info with two distant Kissane surname matches, one with SNP BY2880 the other M269. ? ?The Kissane/Cashman point of contact lives in Dublin but has ancestors from Black Valley, Kerry. ? The Kissane point of contact lives in West Australia. ? Both had Sullivan connections in their lineage too. ? My son Evan and I both are confirmed SNP A1133, estimated by FTDNA to have mutated from FT43021 about 1200, as surnames were being adopted. ? ?
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
Mary, what is your username? I can't find your tree on there. I tested some other Sheehans in the area that seemed like potential cousins but none popped up as part of my Sheehan branch. I think our NPE surname switch to Sheehan happened pretty recently, meaning that most of the Sheehans are going to be A923 (or at least not closely kin to me).
Would any of the admins be willing to send me the contact info for Kits 232067 (the "Daniel Kissane b. 1825" kit) and 259030 (the "Nasi Yehuda Kassin aka Senor Juan Cassin from 1490" kit)? I want to see if we can work out a way to get them tested (especially with the sale on, as Nigel mentioned).
My MORIARTY big-y tests? R-A6464? -- if we can find a Sheehan tester I will be glad to pay for a test.? My Moriarty cousin does connect to his 5xgreatgrandfather?Maurice Moriarty?Abt. 1790?Ballyferriter, Kerry, Ireland? married to Mary Martin.? If you are checking Sheehan connections on Ancestry -- the families listed there I feel are incorrect.? Bridget and John only had two children - Mary Moriarty who married Charles Henderson in Muscatine county IA and son Maurice b 1858.? I have his baptism record, with his mother listed Bridget Sheehan from Clinton, IA??
Your task for today, then, before the sale closes! ? I am aware I owe you comment requested on earlier email. ? Kind regards = Nigel McCarthy ? Sent from for Windows ? ? Mary, Yes, the evidence points to William Sheehan being born and baptized in Tralee, Ireland, in 1774. His parents were Michael and Ellen (Higgins) Sheehan. Have you y-dna tested a male cousin with the surname Sheehan? That could reveal a connection. My Sheehans are not "genetic" Sheehans--all the "real" Sheehans cluster under A923. It seems like with the latest Kissane/Cashman tests that that surname seems to be clustering near my Sheehans. See this chart I made to illustrate (based on Nigel's age estimates): As you can see, it looks like?A221 is the Moriarty branch, and it's my contention that BY201782 might be the Kissane/Cashman branch. These mutations occur after surname adoption and feature slight clustering of those names. The thing to do would be to get the other two Kissanes under BY2880 (Kits?232067 and 259030) to take a Big Y and see where they place. If they go under BY201782, I think that would seal it. ? Is your SHEEHAN from Ireland?? I have a 2xggrandmother? Bridget Sheehan married to my John Moriarty.? He was from County Kerry, but they married in 1848 in Springfield, MA so I don't know where in Ireland she was from.? I have some autosomal?DNA testing but no one from her mtDNA.? ? ? On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 5:45 PM Dustin Shane <Dshanetn@...> wrote: We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
My MORIARTY big-y tests? R-A6464? -- if we can find a Sheehan tester I will be glad to pay for a test.? My Moriarty cousin does connect to his 5xgreatgrandfather?Maurice Moriarty?Abt. 1790?Ballyferriter, Kerry, Ireland? married to Mary Martin.? If you are checking Sheehan connections on Ancestry -- the families listed there I feel are incorrect.? Bridget and John only had two children - Mary Moriarty who married Charles Henderson in Muscatine county IA and son Maurice b 1858.? I have his baptism record, with his mother listed Bridget Sheehan from Clinton, IA??
Your task for today, then, before the sale closes! ? I am aware I owe you comment requested on earlier email. ? Kind regards = Nigel McCarthy ? Sent from for Windows ? ? Mary, Yes, the evidence points to William Sheehan being born and baptized in Tralee, Ireland, in 1774. His parents were Michael and Ellen (Higgins) Sheehan. Have you y-dna tested a male cousin with the surname Sheehan? That could reveal a connection. My Sheehans are not "genetic" Sheehans--all the "real" Sheehans cluster under A923. It seems like with the latest Kissane/Cashman tests that that surname seems to be clustering near my Sheehans. See this chart I made to illustrate (based on Nigel's age estimates): As you can see, it looks like?A221 is the Moriarty branch, and it's my contention that BY201782 might be the Kissane/Cashman branch. These mutations occur after surname adoption and feature slight clustering of those names. The thing to do would be to get the other two Kissanes under BY2880 (Kits?232067 and 259030) to take a Big Y and see where they place. If they go under BY201782, I think that would seal it. ? Is your SHEEHAN from Ireland?? I have a 2xggrandmother? Bridget Sheehan married to my John Moriarty.? He was from County Kerry, but they married in 1848 in Springfield, MA so I don't know where in Ireland she was from.? I have some autosomal?DNA testing but no one from her mtDNA.? ? ? On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 5:45 PM Dustin Shane <Dshanetn@...> wrote: We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
No? we have never discovered anything about our 2xgreatgrandmother?Bridget Sheehan until after her marriage to our John Moriarty in 1847.? In the censuses she is recorded as born in Ireland in 1820.? ?My brother and a Moriarty cousin have taken the Big-Y but I don't suppose that helps.? All of us have tested autosomal with FamilyTreedna? -- I see I have 9 matches with Sheehan, one is my cousin David Moriarty.? All these tests belong to me, as I am the genealogist of the family.? ?Brother Ferman has 7 autosomal matches with Sheehan.? ?I definitely?would welcome any advice or help,? marybuchholz516@...? ?My public Ancestry tree is BUCHHOLZ-CLARKSON2017??
On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 6:19 AM Dustin Shane < Dshanetn@...> wrote: Mary,
Yes, the evidence points to William Sheehan being born and baptized in Tralee, Ireland, in 1774. His parents were Michael and Ellen (Higgins) Sheehan. Have you y-dna tested a male cousin with the surname Sheehan? That could reveal a connection. My Sheehans are not "genetic" Sheehans--all the "real" Sheehans cluster under A923. It seems like with the latest Kissane/Cashman tests that that surname seems to be clustering near my Sheehans. See this chart I made to illustrate (based on Nigel's age estimates): As you can see, it looks like?A221 is the Moriarty branch, and it's my contention that BY201782 might be the Kissane/Cashman branch. These mutations occur after surname adoption and feature slight clustering of those names. The thing to do would be to get the other two Kissanes under BY2880 (Kits?232067 and 259030) to take a Big Y and see where they place. If they go under BY201782, I think that would seal it.
Dustin Shane
Is your SHEEHAN from Ireland?? I have a 2xggrandmother? Bridget Sheehan married to my John Moriarty.? He was from County Kerry, but they married in 1848 in Springfield, MA so I don't know where in Ireland she was from.? I have some autosomal?DNA testing but no one from her mtDNA.? ?
On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 5:45 PM Dustin Shane < Dshanetn@...> wrote: We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
Your task for today, then, before the sale closes! ? I am aware I owe you comment requested on earlier email. ? Kind regards = Nigel McCarthy ? Sent from for Windows ?
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From: Dustin ShaneSent: 03 January 2023 13:19 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] BY201782: Kissane Branch? ? Mary, Yes, the evidence points to William Sheehan being born and baptized in Tralee, Ireland, in 1774. His parents were Michael and Ellen (Higgins) Sheehan. Have you y-dna tested a male cousin with the surname Sheehan? That could reveal a connection. My Sheehans are not "genetic" Sheehans--all the "real" Sheehans cluster under A923. It seems like with the latest Kissane/Cashman tests that that surname seems to be clustering near my Sheehans. See this chart I made to illustrate (based on Nigel's age estimates): As you can see, it looks like?A221 is the Moriarty branch, and it's my contention that BY201782 might be the Kissane/Cashman branch. These mutations occur after surname adoption and feature slight clustering of those names. The thing to do would be to get the other two Kissanes under BY2880 (Kits?232067 and 259030) to take a Big Y and see where they place. If they go under BY201782, I think that would seal it. ? Is your SHEEHAN from Ireland?? I have a 2xggrandmother? Bridget Sheehan married to my John Moriarty.? He was from County Kerry, but they married in 1848 in Springfield, MA so I don't know where in Ireland she was from.? I have some autosomal?DNA testing but no one from her mtDNA.? ? ? On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 5:45 PM Dustin Shane <Dshanetn@...> wrote: We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
Mary,
Yes, the evidence points to William Sheehan being born and baptized in Tralee, Ireland, in 1774. His parents were Michael and Ellen (Higgins) Sheehan. Have you y-dna tested a male cousin with the surname Sheehan? That could reveal a connection. My Sheehans are not "genetic" Sheehans--all the "real" Sheehans cluster under A923. It seems like with the latest Kissane/Cashman tests that that surname seems to be clustering near my Sheehans. See this chart I made to illustrate (based on Nigel's age estimates): As you can see, it looks like?A221 is the Moriarty branch, and it's my contention that BY201782 might be the Kissane/Cashman branch. These mutations occur after surname adoption and feature slight clustering of those names. The thing to do would be to get the other two Kissanes under BY2880 (Kits?232067 and 259030) to take a Big Y and see where they place. If they go under BY201782, I think that would seal it.
Dustin Shane
Is your SHEEHAN from Ireland?? I have a 2xggrandmother? Bridget Sheehan married to my John Moriarty.? He was from County Kerry, but they married in 1848 in Springfield, MA so I don't know where in Ireland she was from.? I have some autosomal?DNA testing but no one from her mtDNA.? ?
On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 5:45 PM Dustin Shane < Dshanetn@...> wrote: We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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Re: BY201782: Kissane Branch?
Is your SHEEHAN from Ireland?? I have a 2xggrandmother? Bridget Sheehan married to my John Moriarty.? He was from County Kerry, but they married in 1848 in Springfield, MA so I don't know where in Ireland she was from.? I have some autosomal?DNA testing but no one from her mtDNA.? ?
On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 5:45 PM Dustin Shane < Dshanetn@...> wrote: We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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BY201782: Kissane Branch?
We had an O’Casson kit (B715767) do big Y and get placed as BY201782, which Nigel has with dates for a MRCA of 1150 AD (if I’m reading that correctly). What may not be readily apparent is that the Cashman kit (539013) who placed at BY201596 is an equivalent surname (also equivalent to Kissane). So we have two Kissane/Cashman/Casson surnames popping up under BY201782, which is recent enough to be a surname branch. The only others under that are the two Sheehans, which are me and my distant cousin that have a paper trail back to a MRCA born 1774.
So I think we may be on the cusp of defining the “real” Kissane/Cashman/Casson cluster, which would mean me and my cousin are actually genetic Kissanes. I think I need to try to get Kissane Kits 232067 and 259030 to do further testing: they’re already under BY2880, which is the right beginning; if we find they’re also placing under BY201782, and there isn’t some other defined cluster somewhere, then I think we could safely conclude it’s the “actual” Kissane genetic signature. Nigel, does that sound right?
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PacBio's New Revio Long Read Sequencer
In October 2022, PacBio announced the Revio System. ?This is capable of delivering HiFi reads with lengths of 15000-18000 bases for under $1000 with 30x coverage depth on a human-sized genome. ?These are the same types of reads we see used in the ?related projects to assemble the gapless references such as CHM13.
From the product sheet it also looks like the call accuracy for variant callingis quite similar to the much shorter 150 base reads in Illumina NovaSeq like with Big Y 700.
The platform looks to be coming soon from Dante Labs, which as everyone should be aware has lead the market with getting prices down on WGS but also has notorious history with actually delivering in a timely fashion. ?I have one on order and will share my experiences. ?Best case scenario is that we will wind up with a gapless S1121 Y chromosome to use as a reference going forward. ?Worst case... I wind up with more garbage like the Oxford Nanopore Test they botched for me in 2019 and spending another 6 months getting a refund.
Edit: Forgot to link the .
James
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Re: Two CTS4466 predecessors in Ireland 4,000 years ago?
sounds like sabotage. data like this wouldn't just disappear otherwise.? Maybe it doesn't fit their narrative?
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Phil Millar
贰诲厂尘颈迟丑’49
Mary Buchholz
