Re: FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
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Thanks much, this has been enlightening for me.??
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 01:12:33 PM EDT, O'Brien, Neil <neil.obrien@...> wrote:
In that case your closest relative on the phylogenetic tree is kit no. 875867 Caldwell, which is an NPE is the last 200-400+ years, based on the number of snips and depending on the speed of snip mutation in your line (and I obviously can¡¯t see the number of private snips). ? FT38151 is 10 snips back in time, but the line splits into 3 branches only about 3 or 4 snips back in time, which is well within the modern genealogical period. I¡¯d suggest that you contact your FT38151 cousins and see if a couple of you can purchase a BAM file and get the snips properly aged on yFull. Then you¡¯ll be able to get a resolution on the splitting of the line in a more accurate timeframe. Given that you¡¯re CTS4466/..A541.. S1121+ positive, this would suggest a probable deep ancestry in the Munster region. Best, Neil ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Roy Walker via groups.io
Sent: Thursday 12 August 2021 17:58 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath ? Yes, that is me, 906045 ? On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 12:52:59 PM EDT, O'Brien, Neil <neil.obrien@...> wrote: ? ? I¡¯ve actually just realised, besides misspelling ¡®series¡¯, that I have managed to contradict myself below. Looking at Alex¡¯s tree for your snip line, it is clear that the Cauldwell/Hoey split is a relatively recent one in genealogical time, if you count the snips. I¡¯m presuming your kit no. 906045 below? Your surname mismatch to Caldwell/Hoey etc is probably a fairly recent NPE. ? Best, ? Neil ? ? From: O'Brien,
Neil ? Hi Roy, ? Goodness, 117 y111 matches ¨C that¡¯s seriously impressive, but doesn¡¯t sound right. I only have one. Normally a y111 sorts out the mismatches due to convergence and divergence, on particular markers, that give false matches. ? It is possible to spot haplotypes on ySTRs and predict what snips they might be positive for by doing detailed analysis on a serious of ySTR matchers, but it¡¯s pretty labour intensive work to be honest. ? A 10 step mismatch to John is really at the absolute outer scale of having a recent MRCA, even at y111 a 101/111 is seriously out, unless you can spot a definite pattern on the markers. ? The snips are king, however. You¡¯ve reported your haplotype as FT41075, which is CTS4466/S1136 > S1115 > FGC84010 > A541 > S1121 > Z16251 > Z18170 > FGC29280 > S1126 > S1129. ? A541, Irish type 2, has 3 parallel upstream blocks, which are all around 1500+ years old (it possibly has more now, I haven¡¯t been keeping up to date of late):- ? S1121+ 1135+ A151+ ? ? John is A151+ positive, and you are S1121+ positive. ?This split happened long before the Ui Liathain and outward CTS4466 colonisation in South Wales. ? Modern surnames are of absolutely no significance in terms of discussing ancient DNA and establishing NPEs, as surnames didn¡¯t exist until genealogical time. However surnames found in modern men can be indicative of ancient origin, but I think to be honest this is really stretching generalities. The only evidence is data. ? The data from your line is interesting, because 3 branches of FT38151 have two of the same surname types, Caldwell/Coldwell/Colwell and Hoey. Howay, Hughey etc. This can¡¯t be an NPE in genealogical time, and it seems clear to me, at any rate, that there is a philological common origin for the modern surnames Hoey and Caldwell. ?Mr Walker is the exception. ? Based on Alex Williamson¡¯s tree below, it looks to me that your common snip block, FT38151, formed just inside genealogical time, after 1200 or so. It also looks like the branching in FGC36625 and FT41075 are relatively recent, possible in the last few hundred years. It looks to be that there was either an odd Anglicisation of O h-Eochaidh surname, or else one branch of the same family took the name Coldwell, or else there is an NPE split. ? ? ? Best, ? Neil ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Roy Walker via groups.io ? All, ? I'm just going to jump in because I get lost quickly following some of this conversation.? ? What is the average amount of 111 matches?? I have 117 with the closet being at 4 steps, but one at 5 steps with the same Haplogroup of FT41075.? I also just realized that Mr. Brazil is a match at 10. ? The majority of "close" matches are of the Caldwell surname.? Is there a likelihood of an NPE somewhere or is this still far enough back before surnames became a thing? ? respectfully, Roy Walker ? ? On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 11:41:57 AM EDT, john brazil <johnkbrazil@...> wrote: ? ? And I am sure you are aware Ed that Teague as a surname comes ultimately from the Irish given name Tadgh but also came to be used as a slang term for an Irish person. It is still used, derogatively, as Taig, to describe Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland and Scotland by a section of their populations.? ? Plus ?a change ?.? ? John.? ? On Thu 12 Aug 2021, 15:25 EdSmith¡¯49, <Fordsmith07@...> wrote:
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