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[Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100
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Bernie Raffe
开云体育Hi, ? I’m not very pleased with the neutrality (and bronzing) of my black and white prints using QTR RIP / Epson 2100 / Ilford Smooth Pearl paper. ? Does anybody have any curves that might help or any other advice. The settings I use in QTR Rip are:- ? Media Type: Premium Luster Photo Paper Curves: UCpk-EPPremSemiGloss-cool 50 UCpk-EPPremSemiGloss-cool ? Tried a few of the other built in curves, but the above seems to be the best. ? Any help appreciated. ? Thanks, Bernie ? -- |
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elitephotolv
I think your problem with neutrality is your choice of 2 cool curves
rather than 1 warm and 1 cool. This will result in a much more neutral tonal range. The bronzing is not QTR's fault. It is ink used by the 2200, the way the paper absorbs it and the way the 2200 puts ink onto the paper. As far as I know, the only way to deal with bronzing is to apply a coating that will even out the reflectance values of the paper or simply change to a more matte surface paper. Best regards, Randy |
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Bernie Raffe
开云体育Hi Randy, ? Thanks for the reply, I tried your suggestion but it made the print much warmer. ? I guess I wasn’t specific enough in my original post, the problem with neutrality is that the prints are already too warm. I’m having to compensate by making them cooler in Photoshop (obviously not the right way to go!) ? Thanks for the other suggestions, but I don’t have a suitable area for spraying and I’m not very keen on the look and feel of the matte papers. ? Cheers, Bernie ? ? -----Original
Message----- From: elitephotolv
[mailto:elitephotolv@...]
Sent: 24 March 2005 16:13 To: QuadtoneRIP@... Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100 ?
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Harv Seeley
Bernie,
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I don't have QTR in front of me, but I recall that it requires your paper profile to always be set to enhanced matte and color space set to "same as source". If you are specifying the lustre media profile, you may be introducing shifts. I hope I'm remembering that properly! --- In QuadtoneRIP@..., "Bernie Raffe" <bernieraffe@a...> wrote:
Hi, |
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Bernie Raffe
开云体育Hi Harv, ? Thanks for the info, but I don’t see any way to set the color space in QTR. Also there’s no Enhanced matt paper, only matte. ? Cheers, Bernie ? ? -----Original
Message----- From: Harv Seeley
[mailto:harv@...]
Sent: 24 March 2005 20:25 To: QuadtoneRIP@... Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100 ?
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Harv Seeley
Bernie,
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We should back up a little. I'm running QTR through Photoshop CS on OSX. In Pshop I select "print with preview", this brings up the first dialog where I select "same as source" for the color space and choose my paper size and orientation. Then click on "print" which brings up a second set of dialog boxes. Among the pull down menus I select the "matte paper" paper type and print resolution, then go to another pull down and select "no color adjustment, then go to the QTR menu and select QTR's paper profile and the tone settings, then finally print. Does this correlate to your set up at all? ps, I think I was wrong about the enhanced matte setting, matte seems to the be proper option. --- In QuadtoneRIP@..., "Bernie Raffe" <bernieraffe@a...> wrote:
Hi Harv, |
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Bernie Raffe
开云体育Harv, ? I’ve been using QImage to print colour and QTR for black and white. ? I just used PS CS to try out your suggestions, but it doesn’t appear to work the same way as yours. ?
? Sounds like your QTR is more integrated with Photoshop than mine for some reason, I always use QTR as a standalone program. ? Thanks anyway, Bernie ? ? -----Original
Message----- From: Harv Seeley
[mailto:harv@...]
Sent: 25 March 2005 13:41 To: QuadtoneRIP@... Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100 ?
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Harv Seeley
I'm writing from my work computer which doesn't have QTR installed, hopefully someone
else will kick in on this and give more info. Anyway, I would guess that you're using a Windows machine, so I'm going to be limited help from this point on because my knowledge does not extend to Windows in any meaningful way. I think I had to "create" a Quad2200 printer device in my printer setup utility, or perhaps QTR did that by itself, I don't recall. Within the first dialog "print with preview/page setup", there is a pull down menu that allows me to select either the Epson 2200 printer or the Quad2200 printer device. When the Quad2200 is selected, new options become available in the "print" dialogs. Make sure the "more options" button is checked in the "print with preview" dialog, and then you should be able to see the "color management" dialog. This is where you should find the color space options. This where you would set the 'print space' to "same as source". --- In QuadtoneRIP@..., "Bernie Raffe" <bernieraffe@a...> wrote: Harv,*htt p:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075"click here |
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Diane Fields
开云体育I've been following this---but now am confused
if Bernie is on Windows or Mac.? If on Windows, he must use the QTR
GUI.? If more information is needed for that, I'll be glad to weigh in, but
if its not Windows related, I'll refrain? *smile*.
?
Diane
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Bernie Raffe
开云体育Hi Diane, ? Yes I’m using Windows XP. ? QTR is installed and I just use the QTR GUI which as I’m sure you’re aware is the stand-alone app which replaces the Epson driver. ? I guess my main problem (other than bronzing which by all accounts is something I have to live with on Luster paper), is that the prints aren’t neutral, they are slightly too warm, even using the UCpk-EPremSemiGloss-cool curves, which is why my original question made a request for some improved curves. I’ve still to experiment with some other built-in curves or a combination of ‘None’ and the UCpk-EPremSemiGloss-cool. ? My monitor is properly calibrated, and colour prints looks nigh on perfect. ? Cheers, Bernie ? ? ? ? -----Original
Message----- From: Diane Fields
[mailto:picnic@...]
Sent: 25 March 2005 15:37 To: QuadtoneRIP@... Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100 ? I've been following this---but now am confused if Bernie is on Windows or Mac.? If on Windows, he must use the QTR GUI.? If more information is needed for that, I'll be glad to weigh in, but if its not Windows related, I'll refrain? *smile*. ? Diane
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I'm the one who wrote the windows version of the QuadProfile program. With the previous version of Quadprofile it was impossible to control the tone of the black ink. You could only neutralize the Light Black using light cyan and light magenta inks.
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Since 2.2 it's been possible to also neutralize the black ink using cyan and magenta, but I don't think anybody has taken advantage of this feature yet and created profiles which are completely neutral in the shadows. The Epson PK ink is very warm, and I think any profile created with the earlier version would be warm at least in the shadows. I could help you create a new profile, but I use the MIS 7600 Ultrachrome replacement inks in my 2100 and their PK responds differently than the Epson one. Any profile I create with this inkset may not work for you. I could still make an attempt of course... Both issues can be solved by using the UT7 inkset with MIS-PKN ink and Gloss Optimizer. This will give you totally neutral prints with no bronzing on luster papers. I have profiles for Epson Premium Semigloss and Ilford Smooth Pearl. -- Daniel Staver I guess my main problem (other than bronzing which by all accounts is something I have to live with on Luster paper), is that the prints arent neutral, they are slightly too warm, even using the UCpk-EPremSemiGloss-cool curves, which is why my original question made a request for some improved curves. Ive still to experiment with some other built-in curves or a combination of None and the UCpk-EPremSemiGloss-cool. |
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Bernie Raffe
If the Epson PK ink is warm, that may explain the problem. I've just
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purchased the Epson 2100, getting good colour results on Ilford Luster paper and have just invested in a couple of full sets of Epson inks, so i'm loathe to switch inks at this stage. I'd be interested to learn more about the UT7 / MIS-PKN inks etc.. - I'm afraid those terms mean nothing to me!! I'm confused to your references to profiles. I see no reference in QTR GUI to profiles, only to curves - even if had a new profile, I wouldn't know what to do with it!! I use the appropriate printer profile in QImage for colour printing which as I say, gives good results. Cheers, Bernie -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Staver [mailto:daniel@...] Sent: 25 March 2005 16:30 To: QuadtoneRIP@... Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100 I'm the one who wrote the windows version of the QuadProfile program. With the previous version of Quadprofile it was impossible to control the tone of the black ink. You could only neutralize the Light Black using light cyan and light magenta inks. Since 2.2 it's been possible to also neutralize the black ink using cyan and magenta, but I don't think anybody has taken advantage of this feature yet and created profiles which are completely neutral in the shadows. The Epson PK ink is very warm, and I think any profile created with the earlier version would be warm at least in the shadows. I could help you create a new profile, but I use the MIS 7600 Ultrachrome replacement inks in my 2100 and their PK responds differently than the Epson one. Any profile I create with this inkset may not work for you. I could still make an attempt of course... Both issues can be solved by using the UT7 inkset with MIS-PKN ink and Gloss Optimizer. This will give you totally neutral prints with no bronzing on luster papers. I have profiles for Epson Premium Semigloss and Ilford Smooth Pearl. -- Daniel Staver I guess my main problem (other than bronzing which by all accounts ismade a request for some improved curves. I’ve still to experiment with some other built-in curves or a combination of ‘None’ and the Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005 |
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Sorry, I mean 'curve' when I say 'profile'. People sort of get confused no matter which terms we use. Some people expect something called a 'curve' to be a photoshop curve while others expect a 'profile' to mean an ICC-profile only.
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All the Epson black inks are warm, but the PK particularly so. The Epson MK ink isn't as warm so this tends to be less of a problem with matte curves. Like I said, I think the problem can be fixed by creating new curves for QTR using the latest version fo Quadprofile where neutralizing the black with other inks is supported. The MIS UT7 inkset is a dedicated grayscale inkset with toner inks that allow you to make prints ranging from cool neutral to strong sepia. MIS-PKN is a Photo black ink designed to be neutral in tone and to give great DMAX on glossy and luster papers: The MIS Gloss Optimizer is basically a coating filled in a catridge. It's used to eliminate bronzing and can be found here: To eliminate bronzing without switching inksets you can try to spray with PremierArt Print Shield. You can find it on this page: -- Daniel Staver Bernie Raffe wrote: If the Epson PK ink is warm, that may explain the problem. I've just |