Re: newby question about printing digital neagtives with QTR on PC
QTR on a Mac (14.7 - 15.2): Front feed is selected via: Printer Options > QuadToneRIP > Paper Feed. This works in Print Tool.?
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On Dec 20, 2024, at 7:18?PM, Criss Hartzell via groups.io <hartzell.1946@...> wrote:
I am making digital negatives and need some help. I will explain below how I got?to this place,?but my immediate question is this: I created a .quad curve on a Mac using Richard Boutwell's Quad Tone Profiler. I want to use this curve to print on a P900 using QTR on a?PC. The GUI in QTR v2.8.2 does not accept 10 inks. Can I simply edit the .quad file by deleting the V and MK curves to make it work with QTR? Or do I need to run QTR .exe files from the command window? If so, which .exe file should?I run and what are the command arguments to identify the printer, paper, feed, etc?
Ok, so why am I trying to print with the PC? I have two Macs, one running iOS 14.7 and one running iOS 10.14. I cannot get either of these to print using the QTR Print-Tool 2.3.4 with the front feed on my Epson P900. I continually get an error saying that "The paper do not match the settings on the printer." I suspect that this is because Print-tool does not have any options for selecting the front/rear feed or the type of paper, so the printer is confused. When I print from the PC using QTR, I have both feed and paper options available.?
I can print from the Mac using Print-Tool if I use the top feed, but I prefer the front feed because the quality of the digital negatives looks better. Although I do not have serious problems with pizza wheel marks, there is some banding and unevenness with the top feed - especially with negatives that need heavier ink loads for carbon transfer printing. It is less of an issue with Palladium. The negatives printed with the front feed - No Eject - are better.
Any advice would be welcome.?
Criss Hartzell LuminousAlchemyArt.com
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newby question about printing digital neagtives with QTR on PC
I am making digital negatives and need some help. I will explain below how I got?to this place,?but my immediate question is this: I created a .quad curve on a Mac using Richard Boutwell's Quad Tone Profiler. I want to use this curve to print on a P900 using QTR on a?PC. The GUI in QTR v2.8.2 does not accept 10 inks. Can I simply edit the .quad file by deleting the V and MK curves to make it work with QTR? Or do I need to run QTR .exe files from the command window? If so, which .exe file should?I run and what are the command arguments to identify the printer, paper, feed, etc?
Ok, so why am I trying to print with the PC? I have two Macs, one running iOS 14.7 and one running iOS 10.14. I cannot get either of these to print using the QTR Print-Tool 2.3.4 with the front feed on my Epson P900. I continually get an error saying that "The paper do not match the settings on the printer." I suspect that this is because Print-tool does not have any options for selecting the front/rear feed or the type of paper, so the printer is confused. When I print from the PC using QTR, I have both feed and paper options available.?
I can print from the Mac using Print-Tool if I use the top feed, but I prefer the front feed because the quality of the digital negatives looks better. Although I do not have serious problems with pizza wheel marks, there is some banding and unevenness with the top feed - especially with negatives that need heavier ink loads for carbon transfer printing. It is less of an issue with Palladium. The negatives printed with the front feed - No Eject - are better.
Any advice would be welcome.?
Criss Hartzell LuminousAlchemyArt.com
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Re: sawtooth measurements in scan mode
#problems
I got it working. Happy days. Thanks for your help Walker!
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I think mainly wot did it was buying a new - good quality - usb C to usb B cable with a ferrite choke on it.
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I had been using the usb A to usb B cable that came with the spectro, but then with a basic usb A to usb C adapter head plonked on it to get into my MBP. Clearly that wasn't stable enough.
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Also I think perhaps I hadn't always been doing steps 1-3 so fastidiously - doing so definitely helps.
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Cheers
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Hi Stig, thank you so much. Yes I had created a custom paper profile specifically for DTP and the issue only happened once till now. As we speak I'm waiting for some 2 ply mounting board to come through the mail so that I can cut up a couple of carriers for smaller plates.
I have also?placed a cardboard box support the exact height of the paper slot at the back of the printer so that the paper remains level as much as possible. See attached photo. The exit tray of the P900 looks level enough.
I am now waiting for a UV exposure unit to arrive at my studio although the Maltese sunshine seems to do a good job! Now I will test some Toyobo K73 and K43 plates that I have received.
Thanks again for your input on this Stig. I will keep you posted.
Have a lovely festive season.
Joe
Joseph P Smith MFA Digital Arts (Melit) MSWPP; FMPA; FBIPP; Hon. FMPS; ARPS; AFIAP Instagram: @smithfoto59 Facebook: Twitter: @smithjp59
Hi Joe.
4 things you have to check/consider:
1; You have to create a Custom Paper Profile for the plates. Enhanced Matte Posterboard is approx 2 times as thick as your polymerplate. It is very important to print the test for Feed Adjustment - do that on the backside of an old plate - that will give you the right plate thickness - it will be much easier to read on the steel instead of the polymer - and it will save you an expensive plate. And you can easily remove the ink from the steelside and do it again if needed.
2: Your plates must be 100% ?flat - not curved or bend in any way- the same goes with the edges of the plate - no curly edges or corners.?
3: There must be no curves when the plates goes in or out of the printer - in the old days I had the Epson 4900 which I made support tables for in both ends of the printer - just 2 smooth plates mounted with 4 short adjustable IKEA legs - easy to make and level up and down. Now I use a P9000 with ramps mounted on top and buttom to make the plates go in a straight line all the way from loading to removing.
4: I have also had a lot of fun with the "Golden Plates" ?- the ones I had was Jet Letterpress. Some batches was OK and some batches had lines, stripes and/or noise. I could after to many tests hear from the cracking sound when I removed the cover film, if it was a good or a bad plate. All golden plates sucks - use another kind...
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Hi Joe.
4 things you have to check/consider:
1; You have to create a Custom Paper Profile for the plates. Enhanced Matte Posterboard is approx 2 times as thick as your polymerplate. It is very important to print the test for Feed Adjustment - do that on the backside of an old plate - that will give you the right plate thickness - it will be much easier to read on the steel instead of the polymer - and it will save you an expensive plate. And you can easily remove the ink from the steelside and do it again if needed.
2: Your plates must be 100% ?flat - not curved or bend in any way- the same goes with the edges of the plate - no curly edges or corners.?
3: There must be no curves when the plates goes in or out of the printer - in the old days I had the Epson 4900 which I made support tables for in both ends of the printer - just 2 smooth plates mounted with 4 short adjustable IKEA legs - easy to make and level up and down. Now I use a P9000 with ramps mounted on top and buttom to make the plates go in a straight line all the way from loading to removing.
4: I have also had a lot of fun with the "Golden Plates" ?- the ones I had was Jet Letterpress. Some batches was OK and some batches had lines, stripes and/or noise. I could after to many tests hear from the cracking sound when I removed the cover film, if it was a good or a bad plate. All golden plates sucks - use another kind...
?
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Re: sawtooth measurements in scan mode
#problems
This rings true. Particularly the usb aspect - I noticed a few occasions when the Spectro lost its connection with the computer and had to be unplugged and replugged. I am running from a laptop. I've ordered a powered usb hub and will report back once I've gone through your steps.
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cheers?
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Re: sawtooth measurements in scan mode
#problems
Looks to me like there is some physical things going on . . .
1. Make sure you hold down the trigger while the i1 is entirely on the white of the paper (before hitting the patches). Make sure the light is on. 2. Draw across NOT TOO SLOW. Too slow is actually a problem here. 3. Draw across all the way to the white and wait another half second before letting up off the trigger. 4. Don’t use the non-averaged 129 step target. I’m embarrassed by how badly that one can read sometimes. Best is the 21x16 one honestly. That will read great. 5. Make sure you have a SOLID USB connection. Use a powered USB hub so you can ensure everything is working properly. If it’s a Mac laptop use the USB C port on the top left and make sure you have the Mac plugged in. 6. Clean the white calibration tile.
This should do it.
Best -Walker
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On Dec 9, 2024, at 1:10?PM, Chris Jack via groups.io <itsmrjack@...> wrote:
Cheers Walker.
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My reader bar does have the zebra strip.
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MXF file attached. This is a measurement of the Piezography 129 step chart for i1Pro 2 taken in scan mode.
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<Piezography-129step-i1Pro2 scan.mxf>
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Re: sawtooth measurements in scan mode
#problems
Cheers Walker.
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My reader bar does have the zebra strip.
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MXF file attached. This is a measurement of the Piezography 129 step chart for i1Pro 2 taken in scan mode.
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Re: sawtooth measurements in scan mode
#problems
One thought I just had too . . . a few people have got i1s that don’t have the little black and white chart on the reader bar. There is a position sensor on the bottom of the i1 that reads a zebra chart on the reader bar (right above the back position anchors). That zebra chart should be on. If it’s not on the reader bar (about 25cm wide of 1mm thick black and white vertical lines) then this is the issue. In that case you would need to change the chart to “classic mode” and re-print and re-read it. (Except for 31x9).
Also, for monochromatic inkjet I’ve migrated to 128x5 and 80x10 now . . . it fixes so many issues . . . although PPEv2 does not allow for that. Richard’s software does though.
warmest regards, -Walker
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On Dec 9, 2024, at 12:08?PM, Walker Blackwell via groups.io <forums@...> wrote:
Hey Chris,
Please attach the measurement data and I can see what is going on. Please include spectral values as well as the normal lab values too. An MXF file format is fine (this has spectral data).
Most likely there is some extra measurement somewhere . . . like it’s measure a combo of the last columns + paper white . . .
Also PPEv2 does not work with 31x9. It was on my list to update that in PPEv2 before getting canned . . . so most likely never will work with 31x9 . . .
Warmest, -Walker
On Dec 9, 2024, at 12:02?PM, Chris Jack via groups.io <itsmrjack@...> wrote:
I am getting a sawtooth/jagged line from my measurements of a test chart, when taking the measurements in scan mode, but not in spot mode. Using an ES-2000 spectro, measuring Piezography test charts in i1Profiler 3.8.4 on Mac OS Ventura 13.5, M1 Max MBP. I have posted over on the Piezo Pro forum where I'm a member, but this is possibly more related to the spectro or i1Profiler, so I'm assuming relevance to this forum. ?
I get results as expected when taking measurements in spot mode, as so - this is a spot measurement of a 51-step test chart printed on paper using a curve that I have previously linearised and ink limited for that paper to as ‘perfect’ as I could get it, so it is a good reference: <IMG_2365.jpg>
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But when I take measurements of the exact same test chart print using scan mode, it looks as so: <IMG_2364.jpg>
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I have left off any smoothing at all just to show the full extent of the difference.
I have checked the sample ID, position and sample name of each measurement in the saved measurements .txt files and can see that i1Profiler looks to be compiling the measurements in the proper order just fine. Has anyone experienced sawtooth measurements with an i1Pro 2 or ES-2000? Is it dodgy hardware? Or is it firmware related? If it is to do with it being an ES-2000 then how come spot measuring seems fine? I get the same outcome whether measuring a 51 step chart or a 129 step chart. I have tried with the 21x16 and 31x9 charts but - another weirdness - I cannot seem to get past measuring the first line of those charts, I just get told by i1Profiler of a measurement error and that I need to try slower (I am being very slow and precise). Maybe that’s something to do with the .pwxf files for those charts though?!
Any thoughts appreciated.
?
Cheers,
Chris.
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Re: sawtooth measurements in scan mode
#problems
Hey Chris,
Please attach the measurement data and I can see what is going on. Please include spectral values as well as the normal lab values too. An MXF file format is fine (this has spectral data).
Most likely there is some extra measurement somewhere . . . like it’s measure a combo of the last columns + paper white . . .
Also PPEv2 does not work with 31x9. It was on my list to update that in PPEv2 before getting canned . . . so most likely never will work with 31x9 . . .
Warmest, -Walker
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On Dec 9, 2024, at 12:02?PM, Chris Jack via groups.io <itsmrjack@...> wrote:
I am getting a sawtooth/jagged line from my measurements of a test chart, when taking the measurements in scan mode, but not in spot mode. Using an ES-2000 spectro, measuring Piezography test charts in i1Profiler 3.8.4 on Mac OS Ventura 13.5, M1 Max MBP. I have posted over on the Piezo Pro forum where I'm a member, but this is possibly more related to the spectro or i1Profiler, so I'm assuming relevance to this forum. ?
I get results as expected when taking measurements in spot mode, as so - this is a spot measurement of a 51-step test chart printed on paper using a curve that I have previously linearised and ink limited for that paper to as ‘perfect’ as I could get it, so it is a good reference: <IMG_2365.jpg>
?
But when I take measurements of the exact same test chart print using scan mode, it looks as so: <IMG_2364.jpg>
?
I have left off any smoothing at all just to show the full extent of the difference.
I have checked the sample ID, position and sample name of each measurement in the saved measurements .txt files and can see that i1Profiler looks to be compiling the measurements in the proper order just fine. Has anyone experienced sawtooth measurements with an i1Pro 2 or ES-2000? Is it dodgy hardware? Or is it firmware related? If it is to do with it being an ES-2000 then how come spot measuring seems fine? I get the same outcome whether measuring a 51 step chart or a 129 step chart. I have tried with the 21x16 and 31x9 charts but - another weirdness - I cannot seem to get past measuring the first line of those charts, I just get told by i1Profiler of a measurement error and that I need to try slower (I am being very slow and precise). Maybe that’s something to do with the .pwxf files for those charts though?!
Any thoughts appreciated.
?
Cheers,
Chris.
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I am getting a sawtooth/jagged line from my measurements of a test chart, when taking the measurements in scan mode, but not in spot mode.
Using an ES-2000 spectro, measuring Piezography test charts in i1Profiler 3.8.4 on Mac OS Ventura 13.5, M1 Max MBP.
I have posted over on the Piezo Pro forum where I'm a member, but this is possibly more related to the spectro or i1Profiler, so I'm assuming relevance to this forum.
?
I get results as expected when taking measurements in spot mode, as so - this is a spot measurement of a 51-step test chart printed on paper using a curve that I have previously linearised and ink limited for that paper to as ‘perfect’ as I could get it, so it is a good reference:
?
But when I take measurements of the exact same test chart print using scan mode, it looks as so:
?
I have left off any smoothing at all just to show the full extent of the difference.
I have checked the sample ID, position and sample name of each measurement in the saved measurements .txt files and can see that i1Profiler looks to be compiling the measurements in the proper order just fine.
Has anyone experienced sawtooth measurements with an i1Pro 2 or ES-2000?
Is it dodgy hardware? Or is it firmware related? If it is to do with it being an ES-2000 then how come spot measuring seems fine?
I get the same outcome whether measuring a 51 step chart or a 129 step chart.
I have tried with the 21x16 and 31x9 charts but - another weirdness - I cannot seem to get past measuring the first line of those charts, I just get told by i1Profiler of a measurement error and that I need to try slower (I am being very slow and precise). Maybe that’s something to do with the .pwxf files for those charts though?!
Any thoughts appreciated.
?
Cheers,
Chris.
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Re: Need help with separate Mac for printing DN only
Hi Jess,
First let me say that I am not a commercial fine art printing studio only a single person artist. So my needs, and solutions, are very specific, and in some ways similar to your questions.
Since I print with the piezography solution (inks, software, workflow) I also wanted to keep that system disconnected from the Internet. So I repurposed an old iMac, running Catalina, connected to my Epson P6000. I use the printer for making digital negatives (primarily Pt./Pd. and gum/cyano over), polymer plates (for direct to plate gravure) and a little inkjet printing (proofing and final prints). The iMac only has PrintTool and the QTR tools (the bare minimum for printing - and nothing else). No editing is done here. Separately I have a MacStudio fully configured (H/W and S/W) for image libraries, editing. etc.. I use a USB drive to shuttle images and install .dmg files (PrintTool, QTR..) over to the iMac. The only thing to always double check after installing the applications is that they have full R/W privileges (but this is an easy check).
My suggestion is to repurpose your MacBook Pro connected to your 3880 via USB; and, of course, not connected to the Internet so no unwanted or unexpected Epson updates or “upgrades". Not sure what version of OS you are currently running but if it is working now for your printing needs then I would leave it alone. Separately invest in the new Mac mini M4 with one of the third party port extenders that matches the fit, finish, and form factor of the Mac mini. Load it up with as much memory as you can; with all your creative (PS, LR, etc.) and QCDN software etc.; and a cohesive 3-tier backup strategy.
Lastly, IMHO, the 3880 was one of the last, best 17” printers Epson made that would allow user control and 3rd party inks (without major hassle). While the older P800 and new 900 are very, very good I would keep that 3880 for as long as it still works for you!
Let me know if you have any specific questions.
Michael
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On 7 Dec 2024, at 19:06, jess g via groups.io <jessgreaux@...> wrote:
Hello hive mind. I’m trying to avoid the issues with printing digital negatives on an Epson 3880 and Mac OS updates on my MacBook Pro.I have to update the MacBook Pro OS (for other reasons) and am looking to get a mac mini M4 (16Gb 10 core) just for printing so I don’t have to update the OS. I’m trying to wrap my brain around how that would work- somehow getting PrintTool and photoshop on the Mini without internet. Or do I update the OS and internet- download, then go back to a previous version of OS and disable internet? I figured I’d put the photos on a thumb drive from the MacBook to print on the mini. Any details or workflows you have mastered would be appreciated. I print digital negatives (for pt/pd, gum bichromate, cyanotype, etc.) and hope to venture into Photogravure. I use Print Tool, QCDN/QTR, Photoshop, Lightroom, FYI.
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Re: Need help with separate Mac for printing DN only
The new P 900 is absolutely fantastic for printing film in general i have both an old mac air i use with older epsons and a newer mac i use with the P900 Erika Greenberg-Schneider Chevalier de l’Ordre des Arts et Lettres Bleu Acier Inc. Owner | Master Printer 109 West Columbus Drive Tampa, FL 33602 +1 813. 215. 0622
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On Dec 7, 2024, at 15:36, jess g via groups.io <jessgreaux@...> wrote:
? Thanks for the reply Eben.? I've seen printers either on this group or a FB group write that they just disconnect it from the internet to avoid any updates of all software to be certain nothing affects printing with the Epson printers.? Good idea to avoid M4 all together.? I'll look into a used Mac Mini with Monterey or see if can upload an old OS.??
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Re: Need help with separate Mac for printing DN only
Thanks for the reply Eben.? I've seen printers either on this group or a FB group write that they just disconnect it from the internet to avoid any updates of all software to be certain nothing affects printing with the Epson printers.? Good idea to avoid M4 all together.? I'll look into a used Mac Mini with Monterey or see if can upload an old OS.??
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Re: Need help with separate Mac for printing DN only
I'm trying to figure out why you want to disable the internet on this, and which version of OS X you want to use. I probably am misunderstanding your needs or plan.? But if I were setting up a print server, I'd get an older machine that ran the version of OS X I preferred (perhaps a version before all the problems started cropping up with Presets, maybe Monterey? ). Probably a used Mac Mini. Turn off all automatic updates for OS and the printer.? I'd think getting an M4 would lock you into Sequoia or later - perhaps that's not a problem for you?
Then there are several ways to get things to the printer: file sharing either from or to the server, or printer sharing, or Air Drop, depending on your needs.
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Need help with separate Mac for printing DN only
Hello hive mind. I’m trying to avoid the issues with printing digital negatives on an Epson 3880 and Mac OS updates on my MacBook Pro.I have to update the MacBook Pro OS (for other reasons) and am looking to get a mac mini M4 (16Gb 10 core) just for printing so I don’t have to update the OS. I’m trying to wrap my brain around how that would work- somehow getting PrintTool and photoshop on the Mini without internet. Or do I update the OS and internet- download, then go back to a previous version of OS and disable internet? I figured I’d put the photos on a thumb drive from the MacBook to print on the mini. Any details or workflows you have mastered would be appreciated. I print digital negatives (for pt/pd, gum bichromate, cyanotype, etc.) and hope to venture into Photogravure. I use Print Tool, QCDN/QTR, Photoshop, Lightroom, FYI.
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Same thing happened to me and it was a corrupted quad file. I made another one and it worked fine.?
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On Nov 30, 2024, at 5:09?AM, MichaelT via groups.io <mptrupiano@...> wrote:
? I have a strange problem.
?
I built a new .quad and when I went to print it nothing was printed.? The printer load the paper, started the job, but there was no ink (I immediately aborted so as no to overheat the print head).? I then tried printing a known good .quad (i.e. one I had previously printed).? And the only change I made was to load this .quad.? And it printed just fine.
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I am on MacOS Catalina.? ?Printing through the Print Tool with QTR 2.8.2.? P6000 printer.
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Some things I have tried:
1.? downloaded and reinstalled a fresh copy of QTR
2. deleted and reinstalled the printer
3. cleared the library entry of any previously saved .quads (I'm on a Mac).
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After trying to print with the new .quad I ran the QTR diagnostic shell script.? I have enclosed the file.? Interestingly it is showing that the profile has ink 9 and 10.? But when I open the file in both a text editor (Sublime Text) and QTR curve view I only see 8 channels.
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It seems there are "hidden" channels in the? new .quad but they are not visible?
Any thoughts, questions, or suggestions would be most appreciated.
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Thank you.
Michael
<QTR Diags.txt>
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I have a strange problem.
?
I built a new .quad and when I went to print it nothing was printed.? The printer load the paper, started the job, but there was no ink (I immediately aborted so as no to overheat the print head).? I then tried printing a known good .quad (i.e. one I had previously printed).? And the only change I made was to load this .quad.? And it printed just fine.
?
I am on MacOS Catalina.? ?Printing through the Print Tool with QTR 2.8.2.? P6000 printer.
?
Some things I have tried:
1.? downloaded and reinstalled a fresh copy of QTR
2. deleted and reinstalled the printer
3. cleared the library entry of any previously saved .quads (I'm on a Mac).
?
After trying to print with the new .quad I ran the QTR diagnostic shell script.? I have enclosed the file.? Interestingly it is showing that the profile has ink 9 and 10.? But when I open the file in both a text editor (Sublime Text) and QTR curve view I only see 8 channels.
?
It seems there are "hidden" channels in the? new .quad but they are not visible?
Any thoughts, questions, or suggestions would be most appreciated.
?
Thank you.
Michael
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I'm curious about this also, and I'm sure not the only one!
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many thanks to those working towards a fix or workarounds of the print preset issue ?
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Multiple Issues Setting Up DTP with Epson P900
Each day seems to be different when it comes to starting out printing on polymer plates. Yesterday went fairly well, but today has been incredibly difficult. - When the P900 asks for what type of paper to front load, I choose posterboard and then it asks what type of photo paper. I've chosen matte and that seems okay. Any advice here?
- Yesterday, I was able to print on my polymer plate that was centered in a carrier that was 13" x 19" without issue. Now, the printer is printing on the entire carrier (see image #1), but still printing the test image on the plate as expected. I'm using Print Tool. Typically, there are no problems using this software. Any ideas what's going on here?
- There are also lines occurring?in the test image that appear on the printed image. How do I remedy this?
Thank you. I truly appreciate any help anyone can provide. I'm so new to this, I don't think I'm searching the group well enough to find the answers I need.
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