Re: Kirkland paper alternatives?
Sorry for the delayed response. One of my dogs is seriously ill and has been in the veterinary hospital for several days, so the paper I print on seems pretty trivial.?
Kirkland glossy RC paper is not a premium archival material. And, there are MANY similar papers on the market, Kirkland is nothing special...
I had no illusion/myth that Kirkland paper is “premium archival material”.?
*Most*?printing papers are “nothing special”. ?But that doesn’t mean that there are no differences between them and that differences should be ignored.?
...you need to tell others your spec requirement not how you love Kirkland papers.
I happen to *like* the qualities of the Kirkland papers I have used (8.5x11, 11x14 and 13x19, Swiss, Mexican and maybe USA). I have created my own profiles for them, colour and more than one formulation of B&W. I like the feel and flatness of them. The
whiteness of the print surface is acceptable for my audience and viewing conditions. While the glossy surface would not be my first choice for many prints, I find it acceptable.
I hoped someone would say something like: “Epson XXX is very similar although it tends to curl more.” Or: Lasal Glossy XX is even flatter/stiffer than Kirkland, and the tonal range is the same, but it’s no longer available.” ?Or similar kinds of observations
from personal experience.
I could measure the thickness with a micrometer, the colour characteristics of the white surface with my Color Munki, and maximum black for the ink I use, but I didn’t think that most people would have that kind of detail at hand for comparison.
15+ years ago there seemed to be many people testing and posting information about all the new papers coming out, but that seems to have dried up. Am I missing something out there in the internet jungle?
Myron
Sitting Quietly With Dogs
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Re: DTP printer recommendation
I purchased a P900 a couple of months ago. Had some issues with roller marks which drove me nuts until I joined this group. It was suggested to me that I first feed a few poster board sheets? and print in low opacity to save on ink. This sort of settles the printer and eases the tension of the rollers on the plate. Seems like it works.
Good luck
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Joe
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Re: DTP printer recommendation
Agree with Walker’s suggestions, and wanted to add a word of caution about the 13” printers - 2880, R3000 and P700 - for DTP. Their thick media loading mechanism is different than the 3880/P800/P900 printers and I have never been able to get them to print on plates without horrible roller marks. You might be able to do some warranty-voiding surgery on those printers to remove or modify the upper rollers, but I would just avoid them altogether for doing DTP.
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On Nov 4, 2024, at 7:23?PM, Walker Blackwell via groups.io <forums@...> wrote:
The P900 is a good printer because it has 2 picoliter dots and does multi-channel DTP very well.?
The P5000 and P5730s are also great as well as the larger P6000->P9000 range. The P9570 does not work with QTR at moment . . . but if it did it would work very well indeed.
Warmest regards -Walker
On Nov 4, 2024, at 5:43?PM, markagorenstein via groups.io <markagorenstein@...> wrote:
Hi there, ? I have some experience making photopolymer gravure plates from positive transparencies and am researching direct-to-plate workflows for my home studio. ? Browsing this group has been extremely helpful in thinking through the possibilities, so I was curious to ask what printers the group would recommend for someone starting to work with these processes, ideally printers where documentation and starter curves have already been developed for DTP. Since I'm less experienced with these models, I'm inclined towards buying a new printer, rather than refurbishing a used one.? ? Am I correct in thinking, given the number of posts discussing them, that the Epson P700 and P900 models are the preferred 'new' printers for direct-to-plate methods? Are there other models that I should be considering? ? Many thanks, ? Mark Gorenstein
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Re: DTP printer recommendation
I can echo Walker’s recommendation for the P5000. I bought one as a final solution to the pizza wheels others (in my case a p600) gave me. It’s a beast but it meets my needs of making negatives for carbon transfer.
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On Nov 4, 2024, at 7:23?PM, Walker Blackwell via groups.io <forums@...> wrote:
The P900 is a good printer because it has 2 picoliter dots and does multi-channel DTP very well.?
The P5000 and P5730s are also great as well as the larger P6000->P9000 range. The P9570 does not work with QTR at moment . . . but if it did it would work very well indeed.
Warmest regards -Walker
On Nov 4, 2024, at 5:43?PM, markagorenstein via groups.io <markagorenstein@...> wrote:
Hi there, ? I have some experience making photopolymer gravure plates from positive transparencies and am researching direct-to-plate workflows for my home studio. ? Browsing this group has been extremely helpful in thinking through the possibilities, so I was curious to ask what printers the group would recommend for someone starting to work with these processes, ideally printers where documentation and starter curves have already been developed for DTP. Since I'm less experienced with these models, I'm inclined towards buying a new printer, rather than refurbishing a used one.? ? Am I correct in thinking, given the number of posts discussing them, that the Epson P700 and P900 models are the preferred 'new' printers for direct-to-plate methods? Are there other models that I should be considering? ? Many thanks, ? Mark Gorenstein
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Re: DTP printer recommendation
The P900 is a good printer because it has 2 picoliter dots and does multi-channel DTP very well.?
The P5000 and P5730s are also great as well as the larger P6000->P9000 range. The P9570 does not work with QTR at moment . . . but if it did it would work very well indeed.
Warmest regards -Walker
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Show quoted text
On Nov 4, 2024, at 5:43?PM, markagorenstein via groups.io <markagorenstein@...> wrote:
Hi there,
?
I have some experience making photopolymer gravure plates from positive transparencies and am researching direct-to-plate workflows for my home studio.
?
Browsing this group has been extremely helpful in thinking through the possibilities, so I was curious to ask what printers the group would recommend for someone starting to work with these processes, ideally printers where documentation and starter curves have already been developed for DTP. Since I'm less experienced with these models, I'm inclined towards buying a new printer, rather than refurbishing a used one.?
?
Am I correct in thinking, given the number of posts discussing them, that the Epson P700 and P900 models are the preferred 'new' printers for direct-to-plate methods? Are there other models that I should be considering?
?
Many thanks,
?
Mark Gorenstein
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DTP printer recommendation
Hi there,
?
I have some experience making photopolymer gravure plates from positive transparencies and am researching direct-to-plate workflows for my home studio.
?
Browsing this group has been extremely helpful in thinking through the possibilities, so I was curious to ask what printers the group would recommend for someone starting to work with these processes, ideally printers where documentation and starter curves have already been developed for DTP. Since I'm less experienced with these models, I'm inclined towards buying a new printer, rather than refurbishing a used one.?
?
Am I correct in thinking, given the number of posts discussing them, that the Epson P700 and P900 models are the preferred 'new' printers for direct-to-plate methods? Are there other models that I should be considering?
?
Many thanks,
?
Mark Gorenstein
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Re: QCDN for non Ilford paper?
Oh ... so if I am getting this right, for the sake of example, I can calibrate QCND curve using either 0 or 2 grade filter during the calibration process and get the same looking image (if given image contrast is edited accordingly) but would get smoother gradation/less grain with 0 grade filter curve?
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So to find the sweet spot, would I start from 0 filter and only go up if required contrast can't be achieved using such curve?
Or what would make me want to go above, except for the flexibility of being able to go up/down from grade 2 for example?
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When you say...
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If you start with low contrast light coming through the gaps between the dots, the contrast of those gaps will be lower (and give you better shadow separation) and the higher overlapping ink load with the K and Lm/M inks in the midtones and highlights will activate the higher contrast emulsion to get a full tonal range in the print ?
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...how and when does it happen, that K/Lm/M inks will activate - does it happen automatically by the calibration process/algorithm when using grade 0 to compensate?
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Best Regards and count me in as QCDN customer :)
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Petr
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Re: QCDN for non Ilford paper?
Arghhh... beginner's mistake I suppose, I've just bought A3+ Pictorico OHP and thought I would use it as a negative for contact print on silver gelatine enlarging paper (either Fomatone or Ilford) - would it work? Is the quality substantially different compared to White Gloss Film?
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My aim is to achieve similar quality to enlargements from 6x6 negatives in terms of tone and sharpness however I have no idea if that's at all achievable.
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How would you describe difference between OHP and white film for this purpose?
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Thanks!
Petr
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Yes, Richard, that is a curve for an outside exposure full sun lumen print for Azo.
I use the Azo for lumen printing because my Azo is fogged; it’s fixed as per normal so it’s no different than a print done in a regular darkroom except for the light source (I always fix
my lumens so they are archival). The profile works awesome and one simple test print if too much ink would tell the user to back off the ink load if exposing under an enlarger. For a lumen, that is the ink load necessary (around 60-65K for all papers) on a
P900 with full sun exposure.
I will gladly no longer share my experience with QCDN on this list nor offlist as I get frequent requests off this list as well, probably because people are timid about posting their questions/experiences
here and now I agree. I can sympathize with you how difficult it must be for you to troubleshoot your software for users.
Chris
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Chris, did you send Steve a LUMEN curve for AZO?
Because 1: that is WAY too much black ink for a normal F2 Azo print, and 2: you asked if he was exposing with the sun? (Also, why are you wasting priceless and irreplaceable Azo on lumen printing???)
And everyone: Please stop using the General QTR group for questions about my software or curves. Please email me directly at
support@... with the actual files (measurement and quad files) you have problems with and not just screenshots.
It is hard enough to do tech support as is, and always made worse having to undo other people's misleading or misunderstood recommendations.
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Chris, did you send Steve a LUMEN curve for AZO?
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Because 1: that is WAY too much black ink for a normal F2 Azo print, and 2: you asked if he was exposing with the sun? (Also, why are you wasting priceless and irreplaceable Azo on lumen printing???)
?
And everyone: Please stop using the General QTR group for questions about my software or curves. Please email me directly at support@... with the actual files (measurement and quad files) you have problems with and not just screenshots. ?
It is hard enough to do tech support as is, and always made worse having to undo other people's misleading or misunderstood recommendations.
?
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Re: QCDN for non Ilford paper?
Also. Use the Pictorico White Gloss Film for enlarging papers (as in Multi-grade chloro-bromide or graded pure silver-bromide papers) and Ultra-Premium OHP for contact printing papers (as in pure silver-chloride papers like Azo/Lodima/Lupex)
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Re: QCDN for non Ilford paper?
Yes, you can use the Ilford MG curves for any MG paper because they are all slight variations of a two layer emulsion with silver chloride for low contrast and silver bromide for high contrast that are activated by yellow/green or blue/magenta light, respectively.?
The whole reason to use a low contrast filter in the enlarger stage (above the negative) is to minimize the contrast between the ink dots. The ink dots are high contrast, and when combined with a hard/glossy baryta paper surface won't get smoothed like they do with watercolor papers using hand-coated processes.?
?
If you start with low contrast light coming through the gaps between the dots, the contrast of those gaps will be lower (and give you better shadow separation) and the higher overlapping ink load with the K and Lm/M inks in the midtones and highlights will activate the higher contrast emulsion to get a full tonal range in the print ?
?
If you edit your image properly to get a full range of tones and built the contrast where you need it in the image, then there will be no need to change filters in the enlarger to throw off your well-calibrated curves.
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Hope that helps,?
Richard Boutwell?
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Re: Epson p900 Inks puddling
This might actually be totally unrelated to a paper jam but simply coincided with it.?
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It could be, but I suspect one of 3 possibilities that could give the result you re seeing.?
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1: macOS updated and even if the curves are there, and the install command was run, there is a permissions issue (which you can see in the print center queue) that causes it to print as if there was no curve selected (which is why you see the excess ink and color that is not part of the actual quad curve). Always reinstall QuadToneRIP from the original .pkg/dmg download at the first sign of something like this. Especially between September and December when Apple is releasing new OSs and updates.?
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2: The qtr curve 1 settings were not actually saved as part of the print job info because of all the problems that came up starting in macOS Ventura
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3: You printed the grayscale 21-step image in calibration mode rather than the normal 8 or 16-bit mode with the correct quad file in the curve 1 menu.?
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The reason switching to the Espon driver and back seems like it solved it is because you're updating the printing system with the last used printer and settings and then rewriting that when you switch back to QTR.?
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Hope that helps,?
Richard Boutwell?
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Re: Epson p900 Inks puddling
This may help someone in the future. ?Using an Epson p900 printer to make low ink load Quads for Silver Gelatin D Negs I experienced a paper jam. ?Subsequent cleanings and alignment checks the problem continued. ?Switched out of the QTR printer into the Epson printer and printed out an ordinary color image, all good. ?Switched back to the QTR printer and all has returned to an expected outcome, problem solved. ? ?Thanks all for your quick responses.
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On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:50?PM, Steve Sherman <steve@...> wrote:
To further complicate the p900 issue, at least for me. ?When switching from the QTR printer to the Epson 900 printer, an ordinary color photograph prints perfectly fine.
Thanks in advance,
SS On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:38?PM, Steve Sherman <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks Clay, I would agree the jam caused an alteration, per Dan’s comment I did run other successful, and lower ink load quads with the exact same result. ?Per your suggestion I have run the nozzle check twice as well as a heavy cleaning reset twice.
Thanks for chiming in,
SS On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:34?PM, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:
I think the fact that this worked yesterday and is puddling today indicates that the jam may have done something to damage the head. Try running a nozzle check from the control panel on the printer and see if pools on a regular sheet of copier paper.? On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:17?PM, Dan Henderson via groups.io <dhphotographer@...> wrote:
I have found that I cannot use Fixxons to print negatives for carbon transfers. The carbon curve puts down more ink than the Fixxons can handle and it pools on the surface much like that shown in your photos. Pictorico film handles the ink from the same curve with no trouble. Negatives printed on Fixxons with a cyanotype or kallitype curve works fine.On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:09?PM, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks for chiming in, I’m using Fixxons, the Boutwell Step wedges you see in the top were printed yesterday on the same material with equal or higher ink loads with no issue. ?This morning I had a piece of Fixxons that caused a paper jam. ? Reset everything and the results have been multiple times puddling of K inks, as well as some coloring inks that are not contained in the Quad file. ?Add to that, the puddling is on the emulsion side of the Fixxons.
Thanks in advance,
SS On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:00?PM, MichaelT <mptrupiano@...> wrote:
What material are you printing on? ?It looks to be some sort of transparent film? ?What QTR settings are you using (can you include a screenshot)? ?It looks like you are using Boutwell’s QCDN app? ?My first thought is the ?film you are using will not accept the QTR ink load, thus the puddling. ?Are you using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP transparency film? ? On 30 Oct 2024, at 16:14, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Can anyone offer a suggestion on what the fix is for this mess ?? Have completed a Power Cleaning, Head Alignment and installed new Maintenance Box.? ?Thanks !! <Epson-Inks.jpg>
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Re: Epson p900 Inks puddling
To further complicate the p900 issue, at least for me. ?When switching from the QTR printer to the Epson 900 printer, an ordinary color photograph prints perfectly fine.
Thanks in advance,
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On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:38?PM, Steve Sherman <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks Clay, I would agree the jam caused an alteration, per Dan’s comment I did run other successful, and lower ink load quads with the exact same result. ?Per your suggestion I have run the nozzle check twice as well as a heavy cleaning reset twice.
Thanks for chiming in,
SS On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:34?PM, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:
I think the fact that this worked yesterday and is puddling today indicates that the jam may have done something to damage the head. Try running a nozzle check from the control panel on the printer and see if pools on a regular sheet of copier paper.? On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:17?PM, Dan Henderson via groups.io <dhphotographer@...> wrote:
I have found that I cannot use Fixxons to print negatives for carbon transfers. The carbon curve puts down more ink than the Fixxons can handle and it pools on the surface much like that shown in your photos. Pictorico film handles the ink from the same curve with no trouble. Negatives printed on Fixxons with a cyanotype or kallitype curve works fine.On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:09?PM, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks for chiming in, I’m using Fixxons, the Boutwell Step wedges you see in the top were printed yesterday on the same material with equal or higher ink loads with no issue. ?This morning I had a piece of Fixxons that caused a paper jam. ? Reset everything and the results have been multiple times puddling of K inks, as well as some coloring inks that are not contained in the Quad file. ?Add to that, the puddling is on the emulsion side of the Fixxons.
Thanks in advance,
SS On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:00?PM, MichaelT <mptrupiano@...> wrote:
What material are you printing on? ?It looks to be some sort of transparent film? ?What QTR settings are you using (can you include a screenshot)? ?It looks like you are using Boutwell’s QCDN app? ?My first thought is the ?film you are using will not accept the QTR ink load, thus the puddling. ?Are you using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP transparency film? ? On 30 Oct 2024, at 16:14, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Can anyone offer a suggestion on what the fix is for this mess ?? Have completed a Power Cleaning, Head Alignment and installed new Maintenance Box.? ?Thanks !! <Epson-Inks.jpg>
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Re: Epson p900 Inks puddling
Thanks Clay, I would agree the jam caused an alteration, per Dan’s comment I did run other successful, and lower ink load quads with the exact same result. ?Per your suggestion I have run the nozzle check twice as well as a heavy cleaning reset twice.
Thanks for chiming in,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:34?PM, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:
I think the fact that this worked yesterday and is puddling today indicates that the jam may have done something to damage the head. Try running a nozzle check from the control panel on the printer and see if pools on a regular sheet of copier paper.? On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:17?PM, Dan Henderson via groups.io <dhphotographer@...> wrote:
I have found that I cannot use Fixxons to print negatives for carbon transfers. The carbon curve puts down more ink than the Fixxons can handle and it pools on the surface much like that shown in your photos. Pictorico film handles the ink from the same curve with no trouble. Negatives printed on Fixxons with a cyanotype or kallitype curve works fine.On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:09?PM, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks for chiming in, I’m using Fixxons, the Boutwell Step wedges you see in the top were printed yesterday on the same material with equal or higher ink loads with no issue. ?This morning I had a piece of Fixxons that caused a paper jam. ? Reset everything and the results have been multiple times puddling of K inks, as well as some coloring inks that are not contained in the Quad file. ?Add to that, the puddling is on the emulsion side of the Fixxons.
Thanks in advance,
SS On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:00?PM, MichaelT <mptrupiano@...> wrote:
What material are you printing on? ?It looks to be some sort of transparent film? ?What QTR settings are you using (can you include a screenshot)? ?It looks like you are using Boutwell’s QCDN app? ?My first thought is the ?film you are using will not accept the QTR ink load, thus the puddling. ?Are you using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP transparency film? ? On 30 Oct 2024, at 16:14, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Can anyone offer a suggestion on what the fix is for this mess ?? Have completed a Power Cleaning, Head Alignment and installed new Maintenance Box.? ?Thanks !! <Epson-Inks.jpg>
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Re: Epson p900 Inks puddling
I think the fact that this worked yesterday and is puddling today indicates that the jam may have done something to damage the head. Try running a nozzle check from the control panel on the printer and see if pools on a regular sheet of copier paper.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:17?PM, Dan Henderson via groups.io <dhphotographer@...> wrote:
I have found that I cannot use Fixxons to print negatives for carbon transfers. The carbon curve puts down more ink than the Fixxons can handle and it pools on the surface much like that shown in your photos. Pictorico film handles the ink from the same curve with no trouble. Negatives printed on Fixxons with a cyanotype or kallitype curve works fine.On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:09?PM, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks for chiming in, I’m using Fixxons, the Boutwell Step wedges you see in the top were printed yesterday on the same material with equal or higher ink loads with no issue. ?This morning I had a piece of Fixxons that caused a paper jam. ? Reset everything and the results have been multiple times puddling of K inks, as well as some coloring inks that are not contained in the Quad file. ?Add to that, the puddling is on the emulsion side of the Fixxons.
Thanks in advance,
SS On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:00?PM, MichaelT <mptrupiano@...> wrote:
What material are you printing on? ?It looks to be some sort of transparent film? ?What QTR settings are you using (can you include a screenshot)? ?It looks like you are using Boutwell’s QCDN app? ?My first thought is the ?film you are using will not accept the QTR ink load, thus the puddling. ?Are you using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP transparency film? ? On 30 Oct 2024, at 16:14, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Can anyone offer a suggestion on what the fix is for this mess ?? Have completed a Power Cleaning, Head Alignment and installed new Maintenance Box.? ?Thanks !! <Epson-Inks.jpg>
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Re: Epson p900 Inks puddling
I have found that I cannot use Fixxons to print negatives for carbon transfers. The carbon curve puts down more ink than the Fixxons can handle and it pools on the surface much like that shown in your photos. Pictorico film handles the ink from the same curve with no trouble. Negatives printed on Fixxons with a cyanotype or kallitype curve works fine.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:09?PM, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks for chiming in, I’m using Fixxons, the Boutwell Step wedges you see in the top were printed yesterday on the same material with equal or higher ink loads with no issue. ?This morning I had a piece of Fixxons that caused a paper jam. ? Reset everything and the results have been multiple times puddling of K inks, as well as some coloring inks that are not contained in the Quad file. ?Add to that, the puddling is on the emulsion side of the Fixxons.
Thanks in advance,
SS On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:00?PM, MichaelT <mptrupiano@...> wrote:
What material are you printing on? ?It looks to be some sort of transparent film? ?What QTR settings are you using (can you include a screenshot)? ?It looks like you are using Boutwell’s QCDN app? ?My first thought is the ?film you are using will not accept the QTR ink load, thus the puddling. ?Are you using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP transparency film? ? On 30 Oct 2024, at 16:14, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Can anyone offer a suggestion on what the fix is for this mess ?? Have completed a Power Cleaning, Head Alignment and installed new Maintenance Box.? ?Thanks !!
<Epson-Inks.jpg>
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Re: Epson p900 Inks puddling
Thanks for chiming in, I’m using Fixxons, the Boutwell Step wedges you see in the top were printed yesterday on the same material with equal or higher ink loads with no issue. ?This morning I had a piece of Fixxons that caused a paper jam. ? Reset everything and the results have been multiple times puddling of K inks, as well as some coloring inks that are not contained in the Quad file. ?Add to that, the puddling is on the emulsion side of the Fixxons.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:00?PM, MichaelT <mptrupiano@...> wrote:
What material are you printing on? ?It looks to be some sort of transparent film? ?What QTR settings are you using (can you include a screenshot)? ?It looks like you are using Boutwell’s QCDN app? ?My first thought is the ?film you are using will not accept the QTR ink load, thus the puddling. ?Are you using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP transparency film? ? On 30 Oct 2024, at 16:14, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Can anyone offer a suggestion on what the fix is for this mess ?? Have completed a Power Cleaning, Head Alignment and installed new Maintenance Box.? ?Thanks !!
<Epson-Inks.jpg>
|
Re: Epson p900 Inks puddling
What material are you printing on? ?It looks to be some sort of transparent film? ?What QTR settings are you using (can you include a screenshot)? ?It looks like you are using Boutwell’s QCDN app? ?My first thought is the ?film you are using will not accept the QTR ink load, thus the puddling. ?Are you using Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP transparency film? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 30 Oct 2024, at 16:14, Steve Sherman via groups.io <steve@...> wrote:
Can anyone offer a suggestion on what the fix is for this mess ?? Have completed a Power Cleaning, Head Alignment and installed new Maintenance Box.? ?Thanks !!
|
Richard Boutwell