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Similar to Steve's findings; I'm quite happily using the radio for CW and have found that any clicks can be tamed substantially by setting the side-tone volume to "relative" and setting its level somewhere in the mid 60's.?
Are the clicks completely gone? No.
Is the radio usable? Absolutely.... (Well, relatively...)
Onwards and upwards.....
Ronan
MM0IVR?
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Daimon, Try Chris's M0KNF , settings??he put on here earlier. I finished building my low band QMX and initially had the sidetone clicks. Awful. With Chris's settings the QMX is now fine on CW, Iambic B, no issues. I think the crucial setting is to turn AGC off, and then volume down. Hans, superb instructions, and my advice to builders to carefully scrape off the enamel insulation on every wire end before soldering - it should then work first time! Rich G4PCE
On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:22, Ronan Cantwell <ronancantwell@...> wrote: Similar to Steve's findings; I'm quite happily using the radio for CW and have found that any clicks can be tamed substantially by setting the side-tone volume to "relative" and setting its level somewhere in the mid 60's.?
Are the clicks completely gone? No.
Is the radio usable? Absolutely.... (Well, relatively...)
Onwards and upwards.....
Ronan
MM0IVR?
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I can this confirm, less clicks if sidetone is set to relative.
Using an old small Sony headset for MP3-Player.
Harry, DK2GZ
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After considerable fiddling with settings, listening with different signal conditions, etc. I still have more clicks/thumping with 017, board 3 on the high band QMX than I experienced with the low-band using 014 software. I noticed that the click on key down was not the same as on key up, and this difference can be heard easily when keyer speed is zeroed. Make sounds like a click, isn't really too bad, but break sounds like? 'poink' to me. May be what others are calling 'thump'.
I tried capturing the audio signal with scope triggered on key closure and I notice that there is a distinct short burst of audio following the trailing edge of a keying mark--see attached photos QMXaudio4.jpeg and QMXaudio5.jpeg. The difference between these two is that the first used the paddle input directly, the second is from my bug sending a dot connected via an external debouncing circuit. The settings photos are as for the audio pictures, except that the audio was captured with the keyer in practice mode--the result is similar when the Tx is on, but there is enough rf pickup from scope leads etc. to make the trailing blip less clear. The audio was sampled across a 2.2K resistor for the photos to check that the headphones were not involved. With headphones, the audio is similar, but lower in amplitude.
...Joe VE7BFK
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In my Apr 1 post, I said 014 software on the low band was click/thump/poink free--I should have said I was actually using firmware version 009 in the low-band QMX.
I also tried loading firmware 014 into the high-band QMX--same poor keying. Realizing my error with versions, I then tried loading firmware version 009 into the high band QMX. Of course firmware 009 does not know how to operate the high band RF, so I placed it into practice mode to listen to the keying without RF. The keying sounds good--just the same as my low-band/009 keying. This test partially addresses the earlier question about when the problem arose. I have not tried versions 010, 011, 012, or 013.
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The last post of this thread was on 8th Apr. Is this issue considered resolved? I have a QMX rev 4 from this month and I am struggling with the problem that has been described since the beginning.
Does anyone still have the thumps during cw?
?
Karol
SP1PT
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Hi Karol,
?
For some of us, the issue persists.
?
There is a more recent discussion here:
?
I¡¯m hoping Hans will do some re-shaping of the sidetone soon as I suspect it might help.
?
FWIW, all manner of fiddling with AGC settings and relative/absolute sidetone volume does nothing to resolve the issue for me, though the intrusiveness of the thumps/clicks is inversely proportional to the sidetone volume. Others have reported this observation too. ?
?
The issue is raised here periodically and then quickly dies, without definitive cause being identified or a resolution found. ?I suspect a fix is a low priority because not many of us seem to be complaining of it.?
?
Meanwhile, I no longer use my unit for CW.
?
73,
John VK7JB
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Thanks for the answer John,
?
Now I know that it may not be my fault when assembling the QMX Kit.
It is worrying that many people, like you, stop using QMX because it becomes useless in its basic role.
I hope that the problem will remain on the table and will not be forgotten by the QRP Labs team.
?
Karol
SP1PT
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Hi Karol - I hope the issue remains on the table too, but it seems that the QRP Labs team is in product development mode - implementing SSB function - and this issue has dropped down off their list. ?It¡¯s been raised several times in the group, but has never moved any closer to resolution. Again, maybe not enough of us are affected by it to develop a critical mass of concern for the development team? ?That¡¯s a pity, because as you say, it would be nice to see the basic features implemented well and originally, I personally saw the rig as a CW operators dream. ?I saw SSB as a fun add-on feature, but one I¡¯d personally never use - I have other SSB rigs for that. ?Obviously, everyone¡¯s priorities differ and I do understand that there¡¯s a big market in an SSB add on. ?Anyway, I remain hopeful that Hans will revisit the sidetone thumps and that one day and I can enjoy using my QMX on CW and not just digital modes (on which it performs brilliantly).
?
John
VK7JB
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That's right John,
?
A few months ago I started learning CW because I am excited by this minimalist and primitive modulation. I also wanted a minimalist CW transceiver in the spirit of QRP to make the expirience complete. That is why I chose QMX after familiarizing myself with its features and and excellent reviews. I also treated SSB in QMX more as an interesting addition without focusing too much on it.
?
Best to you John
Karol
SP1PT
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I am using my QMX to learn CW. I have been on a few send classes now on LICW. They remark how clear my tone is. This is all Practice mode. Maybe this will not translate to transmit, that is coming soon.?
When I started, it was all click and no tone. I carefully updated my volume and all the AGC settings in the long instruction sheet. I think I added quite a bit of volume after those instructions. Then it began to become clearer.?
I¡¯m a beginner though. Hope this helps.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 26, 2024, at 2:47?PM, John Farmer VK7JB via groups.io <zendoc62@...> wrote:
? Hi Karol - I hope the issue remains on the table too, but it seems that the QRP Labs team is in product development mode - implementing SSB function - and this issue has dropped down off their list. ?It¡¯s been raised several times in the group, but has never moved any closer to resolution. Again, maybe not enough of us are affected by it to develop a critical mass of concern for the development team? ?That¡¯s a pity, because as you say, it would be nice to see the basic features implemented well and originally, I personally saw the rig as a CW operators dream. ?I saw SSB as a fun add-on feature, but one I¡¯d personally never use - I have other SSB rigs for that. ?Obviously, everyone¡¯s priorities differ and I do understand that there¡¯s a big market in an SSB add on. ?Anyway, I remain hopeful that Hans will revisit the sidetone thumps and that one day and I can enjoy using my QMX on CW and not just digital modes (on which it performs brilliantly).
?
John
VK7JB
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Hello all
Don't worry you haven't, and won't be, forgotten by the, ahem, er, QRP Labs development team...?
But right now I have GOT to finish SSB, it has been all-consuming for months and many many more people are waiting for it than people who are disturbed by key clicks. I know that there are many CW operators quite happily using QMX for CW without being disturbed by key clicks. Which isn't to say the issue is or should be ignored or low priority... But just let me clear the SSB thing first.?
73 Hans G0UPL
I am using my QMX to learn CW. I have been on a few send classes now on LICW. They remark how clear my tone is. This is all Practice mode. Maybe this will not translate to transmit, that is coming soon.?
When I started, it was all click and no tone. I carefully updated my volume and all the AGC settings in the long instruction sheet. I think I added quite a bit of volume after those instructions. Then it began to become clearer.?
I¡¯m a beginner though. Hope this helps.? On Nov 26, 2024, at 2:47?PM, John Farmer VK7JB via <zendoc62=[email protected]> wrote:
? Hi Karol - I hope the issue remains on the table too, but it seems that the QRP Labs team is in product development mode - implementing SSB function - and this issue has dropped down off their list.? It¡¯s been raised several times in the group, but has never moved any closer to resolution. Again, maybe not enough of us are affected by it to develop a critical mass of concern for the development team?? That¡¯s a pity, because as you say, it would be nice to see the basic features implemented well and originally, I personally saw the rig as a CW operators dream.? I saw SSB as a fun add-on feature, but one I¡¯d personally never use - I have other SSB rigs for that.? Obviously, everyone¡¯s priorities differ and I do understand that there¡¯s a big market in an SSB add on.? Anyway, I remain hopeful that Hans will revisit the sidetone thumps and that one day and I can enjoy using my QMX on CW and not just digital modes (on which it performs brilliantly).
?
John
VK7JB
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I'm summarizing from memory here, and adding in some of my own
thoughts, so be kind to an old man? ;-)
Clicks are caused by lack of shaping in the side-tone generation.
That requires an addition to code (by Hans), and will happen.
Thumps appear to be caused by changes in the supply
voltage, when the transmitter is keyed, which changes the
operating point of the audio chain (set by a resistive divider and
10uF capacitor). Some have reported that changing that cap to
100uF resulted in an improvement... (I recall that I suggested
using the regulated 5 volt supply as a reference; that has pluses
and minuses too.)
An implication of this finding is that a better regulated supply
might lessen the thumps, certainly that poor regulation would
enhance them! (Purely my conclusion, here!)
Some had noted thumps in practice mode, and I don't recall that
anyone has offered a theory explaining that.
Hans has agreed that the thumps need to be fixed, but that
getting the SSB code "feature complete" is his current focus, for
the sake of efficiency. As a former SW developer, I can appreciate
that staying focused on one task is more effective than
time-sharing between several!
Anyway, my point is that the thumps haven't been ignored, and
that there are several attacks that might lessen, if not cure,
them. Not fair to accuse Hans of ignoring you or the problem, he
isn't.
But he's only one person and he has other demands on his time.
Seems to me a bit of compassion is required? There, but for the
grace of God, go I...
73, Paul -- AI7JR
On 11/26/24 12:47, John Farmer VK7JB
via groups.io wrote:
Hi Karol - I hope the issue remains on the table too, but it
seems that the QRP Labs team is in product development mode -
implementing SSB function - and this issue has dropped down off
their list. ?It¡¯s been raised several times in the group, but
has never moved any closer to resolution. Again, maybe not
enough of us are affected by it to develop a critical mass of
concern for the development team? ?That¡¯s a pity, because as you
say, it would be nice to see the basic features implemented well
and originally, I personally saw the rig as a CW operators
dream. ?I saw SSB as a fun add-on feature, but one I¡¯d
personally never use - I have other SSB rigs for that.
?Obviously, everyone¡¯s priorities differ and I do understand
that there¡¯s a big market in an SSB add on. ?Anyway, I remain
hopeful that Hans will revisit the sidetone thumps and that one
day and I can enjoy using my QMX on CW and not just digital
modes (on which it performs brilliantly).
?
John
VK7JB
--
Paul -- AI7JR
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Using sidetone ABSOLUTE and volumelevel 53 with an external powered speaker, I ?had no clicks or thumps. Then I lowered the ST volume to 47 because I felt it might be annoying to nearby civilians, and the sidetone became thumpy. My amplifier has no volume control, so I reverted to 53 and covered the speaker with a handkerchief. Problems solved. So it seemed that sidetone volume does affect thumps. JS6TMW
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Regarding the 'thumps': I placed a small 22uF capacitor in parallel with C430, and it virtually eliminated the thumping (and I had a bad case of it).? When I measured the waveform, I can see that a bit larger cap would have been a bit better - perhaps 33uF, but you certainly don't need to go all the way to 100uF - that works but is way over-kill.? Anyway, it is a simple hardware fix that anyone can do.? No need to regulate the 12V, just properly buffer the voltage divider used in the audio circuit. (Nothing else in the design benefits from a carefully regulated 12V bus, so it would be over-design / add unnecessary cost to do that).
?
Stan KC7XE
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Dear friends, thank you all for sharing your valuable opinions and experience. I'm also glad that Hans follows our discussions and tries to meet our expectations. The pressure is definitely on.
I will definitely try your tips guys, they sound promising. It's really great that you are active in this group helping to improve QMX. You create a great community. Thumbs up!
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Stan, do you mean 33uF electrolytic capacitor? How did you fit it inside the enclosure?
Karol SP1PT?
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Yes, a 33uF electrolytic or tantalum capacitor will work, or probably even a ceramic.
My first fix was to my QMX+, with a 22uF that I had laying around here.?
I just finished adding the fix to my QMX with a 33uF.
?
For the QMX, I had to order a very small (4mm diameter) capacitor that would fit.? See photos.? It fits nicely laying on top of the audio connector housing, but was tricky to install.? I had to form the wires carefully to clear the SMPS connector.? The orange insulation was stripped from a different piece of wire and used on the capacitor legs.? This is the capacitor part I used:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/ECE-A1AKA330B/2689035
?
This completely fixes the DC bias 'thump' issue, as shown in the before/after audacity recordings.? These 'thumps' are very low frequency, quite a bit different from 'clicks', and may be inaudible to many people - but they made the waveform look horrible.
?
Note that Hans will be restoring the pulse shaping to soften the edges of the tones, which currently give the minor 'clicks'.
?
Another note:? If I were to do it again on a QMX, I would likely order a low-profile surface-mount part that would fit on the bottom, like perhaps this tantalum:
and patch it in as per the notations in the other photo using some wire-wrap wire, and a dot of glue to hold it in place.? That would only require removing the bottom cover to put the fix in place, and would be easier to install.
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?
I added a 100uF capacitor in the location shown below, which works very well indeed. The remaining percussive element to the sidetone, which appears to get worse with increasing speed, is a hearing perception of the sudden rise time....I hope this will be fixed when Hans takes a look.
?
Perhaps the default capacitance could also be increased in future design revisions.
?
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The non-inverting inputs of IC404 must be at AC ground for ANY frequencies presented at these points. As Stan and others have pointed out, these inputs are very sensitive to even the slightest perturbation of the 12V supply. Those with very stiff DC power supplies won¡¯t notice the thumping problem but if you have a power supply that drops its voltage during transmit, you¡¯ll hear thumping with the original 2.2uF cap. This value is an order of magnitude too low to filter out poor power supplies that droop on transmit. Values in the range of 22uF to 33uF are good replacements for almost all users.
Tony
?
I added a 100uF capacitor in the location shown below, which works very well indeed. The remaining percussive element to the sidetone, which appears to get worse with increasing speed, is a hearing perception of the sudden rise time....I hope this will be fixed when Hans takes a look.
?
Perhaps the default capacitance could also be increased in future design revisions.
?
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Rich Collins
Paul K5EBP
Paul - AI7JR