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What a cute combo! I'm glad I just got new glasses to read the display! The SWR reading is correct. I can't vouch yet for the accuracy of the power reading but it's obviously close.
The meter was developed by?Mike?G8GYW who's on the list here. He has referenced his open source project several times. I purchased a copy from AliExpress.? The?AliExpress vendor I used: HamRadioshop Store. Delivery to U.S. about 2 weeks (YMMV -- your mileage may vary). Note that this has SMA connectors so you'll want a BNC male to SMA male cable from the QDX to the meter (unless you mounted an SMA female connector on the QDX of course). Also you'll need an SMA male to whatever you're using as an antenna feedline. You can make your own but these are also available on eBay and elsewhere. (I've gotten lazy in my old age.)
Internal battery (charges with a USB C cable) came fully charged.
It also comes with two SMA male to BNC female adapters and a USB C cable (but no USB power supply).
Maybe?someone?will offer this board as an option to the QDX in a taller case. After all, it would be just a packaging exercise! (I say that tongue in cheek because these things are rarely that easy but it would be a nice integrated package, IMO)
73,
Mark KB0US
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I received a couple messages asking how to order which means they don't know about AliExpress so let me take a moment to clarify what AliExpress is and how to order from the site.
AliExpress.com is the Chinese version of Amazon.com more or less. Just like on Amazon, anyone can sell most anything and you're somewhat at the mercy of the details and whether the supplier is legitimate. Unlike Amazon, AliExpress does not offer warehousing and shipping of product. Just like Amazon.com, you create an account, give them your credit card number, and start shopping.
The direct link to where I bought the item is?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803689703311.html?channel=twinner
This should take you to the screen below. A word about buying direct from China. I enjoy buying from AliExpress and have not to date had a bad experience. Generally things ship the next day and I receive them in about two weeks to Idaho, USA. What you'll soon find is that a lot of the stuff on eBay and Amazon.com is also available on AliExpress for slightly less with potentially a longer shipping time.
1) Is it possible you lose your money buying from China? Yes. I personally have a limit for which I won't go and may make a small purchase with a Store before spending a bit more with them. There's also a possibility things get held up in customs or lost in transit.
2) Are there fakes being sold? Yes and it's important to ask yourself whether that's something you're comfortable with. In this instance, the G8GYW wattmeter is open source so that's not an issue here. I also liked that the store gave G8GYW credit for the design.
3) Will you get any technical support? No.
4) How is their customer support? Usually poor due to the language barrier. However, I have asked Stores questions and they seem to do their best to be helpful. Be very careful that you've selected the proper power plug option for AC powered things! One of the oddities is that these are usually 'hidden' under "Color Options" and you have to select the right 'color' to get the right plug.
5) Is Hamradiostore Shop the actual manufacturer of the wattmeter? Maybe but probably not -- just as WalMart isn't the manufacturer of anything. In fact, you can see lots of stores selling the wattmeter.
6) How do I know which store to choose? One way is to sort the list by "Orders". The assumption here is the order information is accurate and you select one of the higher selling stores. This has all the same issues as determining which eBay or Amazon seller you choose. Also be careful that you don't overpay and check eBay and Amazon to compare prices.
7) What is Alibaba.com? Alibaba is the sister wholesale site where you can contact suppliers and make quantity purchases. If you want to buy 100 Xiegu G90s, that's where you go!
73,
Mark KB0US
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On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 05:16 PM, Mark KB0US wrote:
This should take you to the screen below. A word about buying direct from China. I enjoy buying from AliExpress and have not to date had a bad experience.
Neither have I but there's always a first time.
1) Is it possible you lose your money buying from China? Yes. I personally have a limit for which I won't go and may make a small purchase with a Store before spending a bit more with them.
Same here. Low value items only.
4) How is their customer support? Usually poor due to the language barrier.
When dealing with Chinese suppliers and messags there are some rules that I follow.
Send a bilingual message. English and Chinese (use Google translate / simplified Chinese)
Writing style should be using simple statements.
No long rambling stuff, just VERY simple statements.
E.g - Product does not work.
I request a refund.
Missing screws.
Is the EEPROM already programmed ?
Do I need my own programmer ?
You get the idea ?
Never rely upon nuanced statements or slang.
Do not use concatenated words. Use "Does not work" instead of "It doesn't work."
You'll be surprised at how much more success your communications are responded to, I have proved this.
Also? remember that the refund / returns policy is in favour of the seller and not the buyer.
This is the opposite to Ebay.
ScAmazon are worse, they make you deal with the supplier yourself and if you get a bum deal then
you are usually at the mercy of your own local credit card rules.
In the UK, that usually means that according to statutory law you need to have spent ?100 and a penny
to enact a CC refund. Your own local rules may vary.
As for power meters, for anything over a milliwatt I just use this for my needs -
100% accurate, doesn't rely upon anything other than the pure basics.
73 de Andy
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The issue that I have with AliExpress is that they allow counterfeit products on the site. ?Check out QRP Guys Home Page and then check the Chinese site, you¡¯ll see a lot of QRPGuys stuff there but it¡¯s not by QRPGUYS !
I guess it¡¯s the same with eBay and Amazon too.
John
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On Jul 29, 2022, at 13:24, Andy G0FTD via < punkbiscuit@...> wrote: On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 05:16 PM, Mark KB0US wrote:
This should take you to the screen below. A word about buying direct from China. I enjoy buying from AliExpress and have not to date had a bad experience.
Neither have I but there's always a first time.
1) Is it possible you lose your money buying from China? Yes. I personally have a limit for which I won't go and may make a small purchase with a Store before spending a bit more with them.
Same here. Low value items only.
4) How is their customer support? Usually poor due to the language barrier.
When dealing with Chinese suppliers and messags there are some rules that I follow.
Send a bilingual message. English and Chinese (use Google translate / simplified Chinese)
Writing style should be using simple statements.
No long rambling stuff, just VERY simple statements.
E.g - Product does not work.
I request a refund.
Missing screws.
Is the EEPROM already programmed ?
Do I need my own programmer ?
You get the idea ?
Never rely upon nuanced statements or slang.
Do not use concatenated words. Use "Does not work" instead of "It doesn't work."
You'll be surprised at how much more success your communications are responded to, I have proved this.
Also? remember that the refund / returns policy is in favour of the seller and not the buyer.
This is the opposite to Ebay.
ScAmazon are worse, they make you deal with the supplier yourself and if you get a bum deal then
you are usually at the mercy of your own local credit card rules.
In the UK, that usually means that according to statutory law you need to have spent ?100 and a penny
to enact a CC refund. Your own local rules may vary.
As for power meters, for anything over a milliwatt I just use this for my needs -
100% accurate, doesn't rely upon anything other than the pure basics.
73 de Andy
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The easiest way to avoid being ripped off by unscrupulous sellers is to build it yourself (isn't that what radio amateurs do?). It's not difficult and you don't have to use surface mount components.
--
Mike G8GYW
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On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 06:35 PM, KK4ITX John wrote:
The issue that I have with AliExpress is that they allow counterfeit products on the site.
So does Ebay and Scamazon. - Andy -
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On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 11:14 AM, Mike wrote:
The easiest way to avoid being ripped off by unscrupulous sellers is to build it yourself (isn't that what radio amateurs do?). It's not difficult and you don't have to use surface mount components.
The project is fairly well documented. There's the original at??and a fork at:? There are KiCAD files on the kholia site and it looks like they could be used to produce a PC board. Also, on that second site there's a Version 2 that incorporated a Raspberry Pi Zero. I'm not sure if programming is the same between chips. If someone here has better experience with KiCAD and producing PC boards maybe they could look this over for viability? Rolling your own is going to be more expensive than you-know-what. If there's enough interest here maybe a group buy could be arranged? I'm intrigued enough to want to give this a try.? --Al WD4AH
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This item is a kit.
I think that where we are loosing the battle is that we have them make the PCBs for us cheap and so they have the hard part of the project already, so then they just make an overrun of boards. ?And then we post the parts list and instructions on a website, for them to use. ?We do the work and they just copy. ?I guess that it¡¯s really not counterfeit if you use the same boards. ?We make it tempting and easy for them, just to save a buck.
Some of this stuff is Open Source but it¡¯s not intended for commercial use, only to the extent that you have made it better, or the cost of reproduction.
Nasty business people.
John
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On Jul 30, 2022, at 14:18, Al Holt < grovekid2@...> wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 11:14 AM, Mike wrote:
The easiest way to avoid being ripped off by unscrupulous sellers is to build it yourself (isn't that what radio amateurs do?). It's not difficult and you don't have to use surface mount components.
The project is fairly well documented. There's the original at??and a fork at:? There are KiCAD files on the kholia site and it looks like they could be used to produce a PC board. Also, on that second site there's a Version 2 that incorporated a Raspberry Pi Zero. I'm not sure if programming is the same between chips. If someone here has better experience with KiCAD and producing PC boards maybe they could look this over for viability? Rolling your own is going to be more expensive than you-know-what. If there's enough interest here maybe a group buy could be arranged? I'm intrigued enough to want to give this a try.? --Al WD4AH
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If you REALLY didn't want cloners to clone then don't rely upon the goodwill of an open source project,simple.
There's no honour in business, we all know that.
And much of what we see today with regards to jobs going abroad is the fault of western capitalism.
Think back to when IBM had full IP control.
You paid $8000 for a 286 PC until IBM decided to license clones instead, because licences were more
profitable to them.
The cost of a PC plummeted, the consumers were happy and shareholder dividends sky rocketed.
It's a western business model that persists today.
So what the hell do we do now ?
If you can be bothered to read the Financial Times today (Saturday), it reports that UK PLC is considering a cutting
out trade with China completely, and I guess the US and others will coordinate too.
You best grab your Nano VNA's etc for $50 before the shutters come down and you end up back at
paying $50K from Agilent / Anritsu for them.
As for me, I got a pile of them, sitting with my Baofangs / Wouxuns and $3 a piece USB soundcard dongles
(he says smugly).
As for my next investment project, I'm buying stocks of Kit Kats who price has quadrupled and gonna
start price gouging on Ebay before they reach their sell by date ;-)
- Andy -
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It wasn't IBM's licensing that changed PC prices, it was that IBM's entry into the market legitimatized the PC as a "real" computer that could do useful work in business. That, and the appearance of Lotus 1-2-3 and Visicalc, made the public notice that the PC was not a toy. That launched a flood of competitors (Dell, Gateway, Zenith, HP, etc.) that shifted the supply curve outward far more than the (inelastic) demand curve did. Result: lower prices.
Jack, W8TEE
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 04:31:28 PM EDT, Andy G0FTD via groups.io <punkbiscuit@...> wrote:
If you REALLY didn't want cloners to clone then don't rely upon the goodwill of an open source project,simple.
There's no honour in business, we all know that.
And much of what we see today with regards to jobs going abroad is the fault of western capitalism.
Think back to when IBM had full IP control.
You paid $8000 for a 286 PC until IBM decided to license clones instead, because licences were more
profitable to them.
The cost of a PC plummeted, the consumers were happy and shareholder dividends sky rocketed.
It's a western business model that persists today.
So what the hell do we do now ?
If you can be bothered to read the Financial Times today (Saturday), it reports that UK PLC is considering a cutting
out trade with China completely, and I guess the US and others will coordinate too.
You best grab your Nano VNA's etc for $50 before the shutters come down and you end up back at
paying $50K from Agilent / Anritsu for them.
As for me, I got a pile of them, sitting with my Baofangs / Wouxuns and $3 a piece USB soundcard dongles
(he says smugly).
As for my next investment project, I'm buying stocks of Kit Kats who price has quadrupled and gonna
start price gouging on Ebay before they reach their sell by date ;-)
- Andy -
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On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 09:46 PM, jjpurdum wrote:
It wasn't IBM's licensing that changed PC prices, it was that IBM's entry into the market legitimatized the PC as a "real" computer that could do useful work in business. That, and the appearance of Lotus 1-2-3 and Visicalc, made the public notice that the PC was not a toy.
I'm not sure I'd agree at this point. I remember the announcement circa 1997 that the "blueprints" were offered to the Chinese.
That launched a flood of competitors (Dell, Gateway, Zenith, HP, etc.) that shifted the supply curve outward far more than the (inelastic) demand curve did.
Yeah of course there were competitors, because OF the "blueprints" given away.
Result: lower prices.
I think we can agree on that one ;-) All this business practice reminds me of my days studying political history, the slave trade, South Sea Bubble, decoupling from the Gold standard and that you can't have infinite growth in a finite world. Heaven knows why I decided on that route, but at least it was fun being personally taught by a couple of leading politicians of the day. I still have their personal correspondence sitting in the next room to me (I kept them for all these years). I intend to? pass them on as part of my personal estate one day. - Andy -
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The day the IBM XT was released, a technical manual set was offered for sale. $100. Schematics, BIOS listing, and the clones were early direct copies of the motherboard artwork, all the way to the trademark logo stamps.?
I had a set of the manuals.?
Larry KB3CUF?
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 5:37 PM Andy G0FTD via <punkbiscuit= [email protected]> wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 09:46 PM, jjpurdum wrote:
It wasn't IBM's licensing that changed PC prices, it was that IBM's entry into the market legitimatized the PC as a "real" computer that could do useful work in business. That, and the appearance of Lotus 1-2-3 and Visicalc, made the public notice that the PC was not a toy.
I'm not sure I'd agree at this point.
I remember the announcement circa 1997 that the "blueprints" were offered to the Chinese.
That launched a flood of competitors (Dell, Gateway, Zenith, HP, etc.) that shifted the supply curve outward far more than the (inelastic) demand curve did.
Yeah of course there were competitors, because OF the "blueprints" given away.
Result: lower prices.
I think we can agree on that one ;-)
All this business practice reminds me of my days studying political history, the slave trade, South Sea Bubble,
decoupling from the Gold standard and that you can't have infinite growth in a finite world.
Heaven knows why I decided on that route, but at least it was fun being personally taught by a couple of leading
politicians of the day.
I still have their personal correspondence sitting in the next room to me (I kept them for all these years).
I intend to? pass them on as part of my personal estate one day.
- Andy -
|
published by IBM i would add.?
The day the IBM XT was released, a technical manual set was offered for sale. $100. Schematics, BIOS listing, and the clones were early direct copies of the motherboard artwork, all the way to the trademark logo stamps.?
I had a set of the manuals.?
Larry KB3CUF? On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 5:37 PM Andy G0FTD via <punkbiscuit= [email protected]> wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 09:46 PM, jjpurdum wrote:
It wasn't IBM's licensing that changed PC prices, it was that IBM's entry into the market legitimatized the PC as a "real" computer that could do useful work in business. That, and the appearance of Lotus 1-2-3 and Visicalc, made the public notice that the PC was not a toy.
I'm not sure I'd agree at this point.
I remember the announcement circa 1997 that the "blueprints" were offered to the Chinese.
That launched a flood of competitors (Dell, Gateway, Zenith, HP, etc.) that shifted the supply curve outward far more than the (inelastic) demand curve did.
Yeah of course there were competitors, because OF the "blueprints" given away.
Result: lower prices.
I think we can agree on that one ;-)
All this business practice reminds me of my days studying political history, the slave trade, South Sea Bubble,
decoupling from the Gold standard and that you can't have infinite growth in a finite world.
Heaven knows why I decided on that route, but at least it was fun being personally taught by a couple of leading
politicians of the day.
I still have their personal correspondence sitting in the next room to me (I kept them for all these years).
I intend to? pass them on as part of my personal estate one day.
- Andy -
|
On 30/07/2022 23:04, Larry Acklin wrote: The day the IBM XT was released, a technical manual set was offered for sale. $100. Schematics, BIOS listing, The availability of the BIOS meant you could see exactly what it would do. Companies making "compatible" machines ensured that their programmers had not seen the BIOS listing then wrote their own BIOS in a "clean room style" so it was functionally the same as the IBM BIOS but not a copy. It worked the same, failed the same but was not the same. Then you can't be sued. But it was the fact that there was an IBM PC for sale that legitimised the use of small personal computers in business that opened the flood gates despite better computers having been available for years.
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That's easy, just drop the kicad_pcb files into and you'll discover they are $27.75 for 3 of the V1 and $28.40 for 3 of the V2.
I'm still downloading the latest KiCad so I can look things over, but call it $10/board for the PCB. OshPark usually gets boards back in a couple of weeks.
Note this is in lots of 3, you can't buy one, or 5, or anything but multiples of 3.
Slight correction, it's not the Raspberry Pi Zero, it's the "RP2040-Zero, a Pico-like MCU Board Based on Raspberry Pi MCU RP2040, Mini ver." as seen at for $5.50 or less.
The V2 seems to be under active development, at least in the last month. Also seems to be a bit of a jumble, the code in the V2 (RP2040) has only a single line of change from the original, there's no BOM for the V2, and the atmega seems to be out of stock everywhere with delivery times in the August, or maybe "3,565 Expected 11-Sep-23" (Mouser) timeframe.
The rest of the BOM looks pretty straighforward, the most expensive part is the display at around $10, though there are unknowns around the battery and charger and switch and case and ...
The original site says "The component cost, excluding PCB and display bezel, was around ?25." but then he was etching his own PCBs.
Clever use of software to deconvolve the nonlinearities in the diode response at low power!
73, Willie N1JBJ
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On Jul 30, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Al Holt <grovekid2@...> wrote:
The project is fairly well documented. There's the original at and a fork at:
There are KiCAD files on the kholia site and it looks like they could be used to produce a PC board. Also, on that second site there's a Version 2 that incorporated a Raspberry Pi Zero. I'm not sure if programming is the same between chips.
If someone here has better experience with KiCAD and producing PC boards maybe they could look this over for viability?
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William,
Thanks for reviewing both of those projects; I appreciate your comments!
Do you think one could repurpose the Atmega chip from an unused QRP Labs project to build the original version? It looks to be the same chip.
Cost aside, it sort of boils down to getting it into an attractive case somewhat similar to QDX or QCX-mini.
--Al
WD4AH
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I like the fact that it's open source and uses the ATMEGA328P microcontroller (no funny IDE required). By the way, Ali Express has those in DIP packaging. I ordered 10 of those and they arrived yesterday. Haven't tested them to see if they are any good. Price was reasonable...$3.xx each.
I would still like to focus on low power levels (1mW and up) using the AD8307 chip, a much better ADC, and some sort of ATMEGA328P derivative (Arduino Nano, 328 uController, etc). Maybe with an integrated dummy load and high SWR protection circuit.?
73 Kees K5BCQ
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On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 03:41 PM, William Smith wrote:
the code in the V2 (RP2040) has only a single line of change from the original
Hi, I couldn't locate the code for RP2040, could you please help me to find it ? I tried to build and upload the QRP_POWER_METER-v2.ino file but I got "'ADCSRA' was not declared in this scope" error probably the code is not for RP2040. Personally I prefer to go with RP2040. Thanks and best regards, Murat
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On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 11:41 PM, William Smith wrote:
The rest of the BOM looks pretty straighforward, the most expensive part is the display at around $10, though there are unknowns around the battery and charger and switch and case and ...
The original site says "The component cost, excluding PCB and display bezel, was around ?25." but then he was etching his own PCBs.
Clever use of software to deconvolve the nonlinearities in the diode response at low power!
73, Willie N1JBJ
I don't know anything about the V2 project, I posted the original design on github and published it in the GQRP Sprat magazine then forgot about it. The lithium battery and charger board came from eBay. They cost pennies. ?-- Mike G8GYW
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The code for the V2 [RP2040] is in ../G8GYW-QRP-RF-Meter/QRP_POWER_METER-v2/QRP_POWER_METER-v2.ino
However, except for a one-line change pointing at the new filter.h, it's identical to the original G8GYW code for the atmega chip, so I suspect the V2 [RP2040] code is a work in progress.
73, Willie N1JBJ
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On Jul 30, 2022, at 9:24 PM, ta1db <mtologlu@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 03:41 PM, William Smith wrote:
the code in the V2 (RP2040) has only a single line of change from the original
Hi, I couldn't locate the code for RP2040, could you please help me to find it ?
I tried to build and upload the QRP_POWER_METER-v2.ino file but I got "'ADCSRA' was not declared in this scope" error probably the code is not for RP2040.
Personally I prefer to go with RP2040.
Thanks and best regards,
Murat
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KK4ITX John
jjpurdum
ta1db