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QRSS grabber network?

"Clayton G"
 

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Hello Knights!
?
I didn't get much response to my email last month, but I'll try another tact before giving up.
?
For a while I've had an idea of developing a server system with remote 'thin' receivers around the world. These receivers would send in their sample data of a narrow QRSS band to the server, which would then generate a worldwide view of the signals being grabbed. Data could also be logged and overlays generated etc etc - it is kind of like the WSPR net but for visual MEPTs. At minimum it would allow for a worldwide instant display of activity with the ability to roll back in time.
?
Anyway I implemented the 'thin' receiver for a design contest, and got among the winners. Subsequently the magazine (Circuit Cellar) has asked if I'd like to turn my project into a published article. As I'd get paid for this, it could be a source of seed funds to make the QRSS network a reality.
?
The real question though is do the Knights think such a network is of value, or do you find the aggregators and ad-hock grabbers sufficient? Personally I found it inadequate when I was running my MEPT, but this is in part due to the solar power and low duty cycle of my MEPT - I had to watch at just the right time to see it.
?
The other benefit of the network is the ability to expand the grabber base. As the receivers will be cheap (I think the component cost can be as little as $50) and not require a PC or anything (only a power source, antenna and internet connection) more operators should be able to install them.
?
What do you think???
?
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA
?

----- Original Message -----
From: Clayton G
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:52 AM
Subject: QRSS grabber receiver & server project

I recently entered a design project with a QRSS application. I was luck to get amount the winners with my entry. See:


The project was a small (and hence cheap) receiver (a SDR) and DSP processor + ethernet interface. The idea is that with these receivers doted around the world sending their small bandwidth of sample data to a central server we could get a central webpage to a worldwide network of grabber receivers (much like the WSPR network manages the WSPR spots). My project was the receiver end of the project only - the server itself was beyond the scope. The receiver used a cheap GPS module to calibrate its internal?oscillator?and hence obtain frequency accuracy (with the central server doing the necessary calculations and managing this).

The hope was to be able to build the receiver for < $100, with the only need beyond that being the power supply, antenna, and ethernet connection (ie no radio or computer required). I got the basics working, but there is still plenty of scope to improve the receiver (such as reduction of the amount of data transferred - currently it would use about 3.5GB/month), sort out the receiver design PCB etc, and to get the server operating to accept the data and manage the receivers.

Anyway, the details are in the entry documents on the website above. I would love this project to move beyond just this contest entry. Is anyone interested in being part of such a project. The main need at present is someone to take on the server side, and a suitable place to host it; although receiver work is also required. Anyone interested? I'm a bit tied up with other project at present, but can do some more work on the receiver.

Regards
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA
Stephen Farthing
 

Hi Clayton,

I think this is really an interesting thing to try and achieve. I am not on the air much now due to a shack/antenna/life reorganization but when i was it was always an exercise in patience to wait for a grabber to pick my signals up. Hans and i have sold well over 400 beacon kits now and I often wonder how many people built them only to give up when they had no "grabs"....someone once said that QRSS is a bit like fly fishing...it takes a lot of skill and patience but ?once you get a DX grab its all very worth while....

73s Steve


On 7 June 2011 12:21, Clayton G <clayton@...> wrote:
?

Hello Knights!
?
I didn't get much response to my email last month, but I'll try another tact before giving up.
?
For a while I've had an idea of developing a server system with remote 'thin' receivers around the world. These receivers would send in their sample data of a narrow QRSS band to the server, which would then generate a worldwide view of the signals being grabbed. Data could also be logged and overlays generated etc etc - it is kind of like the WSPR net but for visual MEPTs. At minimum it would allow for a worldwide instant display of activity with the ability to roll back in time.
?
Anyway I implemented the 'thin' receiver for a design contest, and got among the winners. Subsequently the magazine (Circuit Cellar) has asked if I'd like to turn my project into a published article. As I'd get paid for this, it could be a source of seed funds to make the QRSS network a reality.
?
The real question though is do the Knights think such a network is of value, or do you find the aggregators and ad-hock grabbers sufficient? Personally I found it inadequate when I was running my MEPT, but this is in part due to the solar power and low duty cycle of my MEPT - I had to watch at just the right time to see it.
?
The other benefit of the network is the ability to expand the grabber base. As the receivers will be cheap (I think the component cost can be as little as $50) and not require a PC or anything (only a power source, antenna and internet connection) more operators should be able to install them.
?
What do you think???
?
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA
?
----- Original Message -----
From: Clayton G
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:52 AM
Subject: QRSS grabber receiver & server project

I recently entered a design project with a QRSS application. I was luck to get amount the winners with my entry. See:


The project was a small (and hence cheap) receiver (a SDR) and DSP processor + ethernet interface. The idea is that with these receivers doted around the world sending their small bandwidth of sample data to a central server we could get a central webpage to a worldwide network of grabber receivers (much like the WSPR network manages the WSPR spots). My project was the receiver end of the project only - the server itself was beyond the scope. The receiver used a cheap GPS module to calibrate its internal?oscillator?and hence obtain frequency accuracy (with the central server doing the necessary calculations and managing this).

The hope was to be able to build the receiver for < $100, with the only need beyond that being the power supply, antenna, and ethernet connection (ie no radio or computer required). I got the basics working, but there is still plenty of scope to improve the receiver (such as reduction of the amount of data transferred - currently it would use about 3.5GB/month), sort out the receiver design PCB etc, and to get the server operating to accept the data and manage the receivers.

Anyway, the details are in the entry documents on the website above. I would love this project to move beyond just this contest entry. Is anyone interested in being part of such a project. The main need at present is someone to take on the server side, and a suitable place to host it; although receiver work is also required. Anyone interested? I'm a bit tied up with other project at present, but can do some more work on the receiver.

Regards
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA






--
It is vain to do with more that which can be done with less.
Arv Evans
 

开云体育

Clayton VK1TKA/ZL3TKA

I too have proposed new things for QRSS, only to find a strong view that
"we don't do it that way" which resists change and new ideas.

Your idea does have merit, and some spin-off capabilities that could be
used to further enhance the ability and usefulness of QRSS as a serious
communication mode.

At risk of sounding like one of the nay-sayers, here are my thoughts regarding
your proposed system:
  • Go ahead and do it, even if the Luddites don't want to participate.
    If it catches on they will come around, and probably claim that they
    invented it.

  • Receivers can be constructed for very much less than your figure.
    An SA612 IC costs less than USD $3.00 from Chinese sources.
    A single 2N2222A following the SA612 gives AF levels sufficient
    for driving the PC audio input.? Crystals for QRSS frequencies can
    be either cheap or expensive, depending on which QRSS band is
    being received.

  • It will be difficult to determine which band the centralized signal is
    coming from unless the source ID includes band information.?

  • It will be difficult to know which grid square the centralized signals
    are coming from unless the source ID includes location information.

  • Some sort of coverage plan, or at least a coverage map may be
    be required to make most effective use of the system.

  • Aggregated data should probably be available in both visual (web
    page map), and in raw data formats so that others can use your server
    output for further automated processing.

  • What is in it for those who will be installing receivers and the thin-
    client access to to Internet?? What would be the motivation for many
    to participate with getting and maintaining their facilities to provide
    data to your system?

  • Who would be the target clients of your system and it's data?? Why
    would they be interested in it?

  • I'm guessing that the central server would be receiving audio (VoIP...?)
    information from simple QRSS receivers, and would need to process
    this audio from many different sources.? That seems like it would
    require a dedicated sound card based ADC processor for each input
    signal.? That is a lot of sound cards for one computer unless some
    method can be designed to multiplex AF signal processing.? Have you
    worked out a method for doing this?

  • The amount of equipment for the central aggregation and processing
    system may become significant.? How would you pay for this, and who
    would install and maintain it?? This brings to mind ideas about using
    "cloud computing" methods to distribute the processing and data
    management, but software for that has not yet been written...are
    you going to do it??? Hmmm...maybe we need to just add a downstream
    data link for existing QRSS reception software so that ARGO and/or
    Spectran could send received signal info to your centralized (or distributed)
    QRSS aggregation system?

  • Maybe the best approach if you are really interested in making it happen
    would be to go ahead on your own and build it, with the assumption that
    "if it gets built, they clients will use it".? I'm not wholly convinced that this
    is a good assumption, but there is one way to really try the concept...build
    the system and see if anybody wants to play in your sandbox.
As mentioned earlier, I too have discussed with others the possibility of doing
more with QRSS, only to run into a wall of indifference, criticism, and resistance
to change.

About a year ago I built a rudimentary QRSS receiver and put it on the Internet
via my own local QRSS viewer and web server:

???? ??? .

To say that nobody was/is interested would be a significant understatement.?

Today the aggregation of QRSS servers known as the QRSS Compendium

??? ???

is dominated by a few long-time participants who apparently have large
antenna installations and excellent receiving systems.? Those with lesser systems
or less time in the group are not even mentioned in the Compendium.? Because
of this apparent good-old-boys-club aspect of QRSS activity, your proposal might
potentially be seen as competing with, and disruptive to, their well established
system.

My suggestion is to go forward with your idea, even if you don't get volunteers
who are begging to help build it and want to become participants in the result.
If you make announcements here as certain parts of your system become
available for general use, some of us will try it.? We might even like it.? :-)

73's

Arv K7HKL
_._


On 06/07/2011 05:21 AM, Clayton G wrote:

?

Hello Knights!
?
I didn't get much response to my email last month, but I'll try another tact before giving up.
?
For a while I've had an idea of developing a server system with remote 'thin' receivers around the world. These receivers would send in their sample data of a narrow QRSS band to the server, which would then generate a worldwide view of the signals being grabbed. Data could also be logged and overlays generated etc etc - it is kind of like the WSPR net but for visual MEPTs. At minimum it would allow for a worldwide instant display of activity with the ability to roll back in time.
?
Anyway I implemented the 'thin' receiver for a design contest, and got among the winners. Subsequently the magazine (Circuit Cellar) has asked if I'd like to turn my project into a published article. As I'd get paid for this, it could be a source of seed funds to make the QRSS network a reality.
?
The real question though is do the Knights think such a network is of value, or do you find the aggregators and ad-hock grabbers sufficient? Personally I found it inadequate when I was running my MEPT, but this is in part due to the solar power and low duty cycle of my MEPT - I had to watch at just the right time to see it.
?
The other benefit of the network is the ability to expand the grabber base. As the receivers will be cheap (I think the component cost can be as little as $50) and not require a PC or anything (only a power source, antenna and internet connection) more operators should be able to install them.
?
What do you think???
?
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA
?
----- Original Message -----
From: Clayton G
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:52 AM
Subject: QRSS grabber receiver & server project

I recently entered a design project with a QRSS application. I was luck to get amount the winners with my entry. See:


The project was a small (and hence cheap) receiver (a SDR) and DSP processor + ethernet interface. The idea is that with these receivers doted around the world sending their small bandwidth of sample data to a central server we could get a central webpage to a worldwide network of grabber receivers (much like the WSPR network manages the WSPR spots). My project was the receiver end of the project only - the server itself was beyond the scope. The receiver used a cheap GPS module to calibrate its internal?oscillator?and hence obtain frequency accuracy (with the central server doing the necessary calculations and managing this).

The hope was to be able to build the receiver for < $100, with the only need beyond that being the power supply, antenna, and ethernet connection (ie no radio or computer required). I got the basics working, but there is still plenty of scope to improve the receiver (such as reduction of the amount of data transferred - currently it would use about 3.5GB/month), sort out the receiver design PCB etc, and to get the server operating to accept the data and manage the receivers.

Anyway, the details are in the entry documents on the website above. I would love this project to move beyond just this contest entry. Is anyone interested in being part of such a project. The main need at present is someone to take on the server side, and a suitable place to host it; although receiver work is also required. Anyone interested? I'm a bit tied up with other project at present, but can do some more work on the receiver.

Regards
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA
Daniel Wiering
 

Sounds like a good idea in principle perhaps share some more info with us ?
"javeaflat"
 

Clayton,
I downloaded the receiver project and it looks good, congratulations on your win.

I have a few websites I look after although I have retired from full time work but there should be space enough on my hosting account to do this.
I have some experience with MySQL database development and could knock up a db to store the information from each grabber and write php scripts to add it and display it on a page(s).

I have not looked at the firmware for the MBED as yet but presumably
it could send the parameters back to the server as a get command string similar to that which can be produced when a form is completed on a web page, I say this because I am familiar with form handling and would be able to interface this with the database without too much problem.

Ian M0BXR

What do you think???

Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA

----- Original Message -----
From: Clayton G
To: knightsqrss@...
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:52 AM
Subject: QRSS grabber receiver & server project


I recently entered a design project with a QRSS application. I was luck to get amount the winners with my entry. See:






The project was a small (and hence cheap) receiver (a SDR) and DSP processor + ethernet interface. The idea is that with these receivers doted around the world sending their small bandwidth of sample data to a central server we could get a central webpage to a worldwide network of grabber receivers (much like the WSPR network manages the WSPR spots). My project was the receiver end of the project only - the server itself was beyond the scope. The receiver used a cheap GPS module to calibrate its internal oscillator and hence obtain frequency accuracy (with the central server doing the necessary calculations and managing this).


The hope was to be able to build the receiver for < $100, with the only need beyond that being the power supply, antenna, and ethernet connection (ie no radio or computer required). I got the basics working, but there is still plenty of scope to improve the receiver (such as reduction of the amount of data transferred - currently it would use about 3.5GB/month), sort out the receiver design PCB etc, and to get the server operating to accept the data and manage the receivers.


Anyway, the details are in the entry documents on the website above. I would love this project to move beyond just this contest entry. Is anyone interested in being part of such a project. The main need at present is someone to take on the server side, and a suitable place to host it; although receiver work is also required. Anyone interested? I'm a bit tied up with other project at present, but can do some more work on the receiver.


Regards
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA
Clayton G
 

Hi All,

Thank you to all those that responded. It sounds like there is an interest in the idea and some people willing to contribute.

I'm working on some more sample server software, and will then sort out the magazine article. I will put the system onto my website so that those interested can see the system details and we'll see where we can go from there. I'll try to get this done by mid July.

I think everybody's questions are actually covered in the design contest documents (), but if you have a question not covered here, please ask.

Again, thank you for the interest ?;-)

Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA


On 7 June 2011 21:21, Clayton G <clayton@...> wrote:
Hello Knights!
?
I didn't get much response to my email last month, but I'll try another tact before giving up.
?
For a while I've had an idea of developing a server system with remote 'thin' receivers around the world. These receivers would send in their sample data of a narrow QRSS band to the server, which would then generate a worldwide view of the signals being grabbed. Data could also be logged and overlays generated etc etc - it is kind of like the WSPR net but for visual MEPTs. At minimum it would allow for a worldwide instant display of activity with the ability to roll back in time.
?
Anyway I implemented the 'thin' receiver for a design contest, and got among the winners. Subsequently the magazine (Circuit Cellar) has asked if I'd like to turn my project into a published article. As I'd get paid for this, it could be a source of seed funds to make the QRSS network a reality.
?
The real question though is do the Knights think such a network is of value, or do you find the aggregators and ad-hock grabbers sufficient? Personally I found it inadequate when I was running my MEPT, but this is in part due to the solar power and low duty cycle of my MEPT - I had to watch at just the right time to see it.
?
The other benefit of the network is the ability to expand the grabber base. As the receivers will be cheap (I think the component cost can be as little as $50) and not require a PC or anything (only a power source, antenna and internet connection) more operators should be able to install them.
?
What do you think???
?
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA
?
----- Original Message -----
From: Clayton G
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:52 AM
Subject: QRSS grabber receiver & server project

I recently entered a design project with a QRSS application. I was luck to get amount the winners with my entry. See:


The project was a small (and hence cheap) receiver (a SDR) and DSP processor + ethernet interface. The idea is that with these receivers doted around the world sending their small bandwidth of sample data to a central server we could get a central webpage to a worldwide network of grabber receivers (much like the WSPR network manages the WSPR spots). My project was the receiver end of the project only - the server itself was beyond the scope. The receiver used a cheap GPS module to calibrate its internal?oscillator?and hence obtain frequency accuracy (with the central server doing the necessary calculations and managing this).

The hope was to be able to build the receiver for < $100, with the only need beyond that being the power supply, antenna, and ethernet connection (ie no radio or computer required). I got the basics working, but there is still plenty of scope to improve the receiver (such as reduction of the amount of data transferred - currently it would use about 3.5GB/month), sort out the receiver design PCB etc, and to get the server operating to accept the data and manage the receivers.

Anyway, the details are in the entry documents on the website above. I would love this project to move beyond just this contest entry. Is anyone interested in being part of such a project. The main need at present is someone to take on the server side, and a suitable place to host it; although receiver work is also required. Anyone interested? I'm a bit tied up with other project at present, but can do some more work on the receiver.

Regards
Clayton
VK1TKA/ZL3TKA

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