Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
C'mon guys, really?? We need to lighten up on this.? Even if these HF balloons are violating any rules, which is questionable regarding the vague FCC legalese, are they even remotely any threat or negative influence?? If anything, they are a good example of innovation and progressive experimentation utilizing the latest technology.? They use literally only milliwatts, compared to the kilowatt+ of contesters who completely disregard any rules or etiquette for Yet-Another-Certificate.
The real threat to ham radio as we know it, is the proclivity of the "paper-chaser" modes, unfortunately with the ARRL's blessing and encouragement.
From: J68HZ <bill@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 1, 2018 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] HF beacons for US launched balloons
The redeeming part of the rule breaking, and justice in the end is that the offenders typically attach their call signs to the illegal operation. ?Very helpful.?
Dr.?William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch ¨C K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner ¨C Operator Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it:
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
Oops Its 100 grams
Sent from my Samsung GALAXY S5
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-------- Original message -------- From: john <johnmb@...> Date: 2/01/2018 09:40 (GMT+10:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] HF beacons for US launched balloons On 1/1/2018 5:16 PM, Bruce Beford N1RX wrote: > Trevor, there is no power level below which an intentional radiator in > the amateur radio bands becomes "unregulated". Easy solution! Put a 13.9 Mhz rock in the rig and we're good. John K5MO
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
John,? A device of less than 100 milligrams does not require a permit? Trevor? VK3PD?
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-------- Original message -------- From: John Backo <jabac@...> Date: 2/01/2018 09:13 (GMT+10:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] HF beacons for US launched balloons What does the FAA or other world air traffic organizations have to say about it? john AD5YE
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
How about taking this energy into something useful rather than cutting down a few hams that are having fun doing something harmless?
Like clean up 80m and other bands from the CB mentality that seems to be growing in numbers?
Foul mouth`s and arguments,jamming...etc.
Or even controlling illegal out of band operations on 27-28 mhz ?
You see,it is easier to attack those that are having fun who share the fun and experimental aspects right?
Go away !
Jim,N2NXZ
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
Perhaps it¡¯s time to start working with FCC and others for an experimental regulation for QRPP unattended HF beacons for balloons only.?
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On Jan 1, 2018, at 16:53, Trevor < trevor@...> wrote:
We are talking power levels of 50 to 100milliwatts. With an eirp of even less. What is the power level in the US where devices become unregulated.
These party balloons are below the weight where a permit is required to fly. I would expect that the same applies to the RF signal.?? 73s HNY Trevor VK3PD
Sent from my Samsung GALAXY S5 -------- Original message -------- From: Bruce Beford N1RX < n1rx@...> Date: 2/01/2018 02:28 (GMT+10:00) To: [email protected] Subject: [QRPLabs] HF beacons for US launched balloons One of the great aspects of the Amateur Radio hobby is the wide variety of activities and sub-topics. One can move in and out of different areas of the field- wherever your interests take you. Having only been a licensed amateur for a bit over 30 years, I still learn something new regularly. Of interest to me, is the recent proliferation of high altitude balloons with sensors and telemetry transmitters aboard. For many years, these beacon transmitters have been primarily in the VHF/UHF range. My understanding is that this was for a number of reasons, including the need for light payloads, and international regulations concerning unattended (un-controlled) beacons. Of late, I see many that are transmitting in the HF spectrum, using the weak signal modes of WSPR and JT9, for example. It has always been my understanding of FCC regulations that unattended beacons below 28 MHz were not allowed for USA amateurs. This appears to have somewhat been ignored by the masses of people running WSPR beacons 24/7- These are not intended to be unattended transmitters. However... I am curious if there has been an exception made for balloon flights for these unattended HF beacons that are operating under FCC regulations and carrying US callsigns. If this is the case, I would greatly appreciate someone being able to help me locate the appropriate regulation or notice from the FCC that allows this. Thanks in advance, Bruce Beford, N1RX
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Re: Working on the 80m QCX again
I wish there was a way to edit posts...
I also see about 2.9W of output at L1 and the dummy load I'm using is getting warm...
I'm going to guess that whatever is causing the rig to key up all by itself is why I can't get the bandpass filter to peak anymore. I know I had it peaked at 9+ when I first powered up...
Santa brought me a KX2 and I haven't touched it other than to take it out of the box and charge the battery. I'd rather see the QCX work first...
--
73
NE5U
Mike
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Re: Working on the 80m QCX again
I spent the whole day trying to figure out why power was low and the the bandpass filter wouldn't peak more than 2 on my QCX. I found 1 turn too many on secondary #1 of T1 and fixed that. I took 5 turns off of secondary #3 of T1. C1 ended up 50% meshed and the peak is right in the edge of being 3 now. I tested the caps in the bandpass filter. They were all fine.?
One test was wonky. Page 127 says:
"Check the RF power wire touched to the BS170 drains first (see diagram). You can still touch the wire to these BS170 drains from he top side of the board. Key-down and check the wattage reading"
I didn't have to key down. The internal wattmeter reads 5.2 watts on each drain leg (per the diagram on the same page). Keyed down or up I see 5.2W. I know the wattage isn't accurate but why is it there all the time? Something must be turned on in the keying circuit.
Here's a pic. You can't see where I'm holding the probe. You'll just have to take my word for it, Pin 1 of the MOSFET... aka Drain. It does this for all three...
?
--
73
NE5U
Mike
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
The redeeming part of the rule breaking, and justice in the end is that the offenders typically attach their call signs to the illegal operation. ?Very helpful.?
Dr.?William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch ¨C K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner ¨C Operator Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it:
email:??bill@...
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Re: Turn on your QRSS Transmitters!
Dear TrueBlue,
I will be pulling the saved picture files for the whole 48 hour period of the test and try to determine all the call signs that my grabbers have seen over the 48 hour period.? I am not sure just how long that will take but I will be putting in the effort to acknowledge each and every call that My 5 band grabber heard.?? So give me a week or so to get this done.? I have a lot of images to look at.?? I also have the pictures that for some reason that QSL.NET didn't show during their outage.? I will post the calls by band as soon as I can get them done.?? I hope your call is in there with the others.
Take care and have fun.
73 Dave WA5DJJ.
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
of course not. Those devices are by definition, unintentional radiators. 8-)
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
Ironically, approved transmissions create a tremendous amount of QRM and promote even more LID behavior.? The recent FT8 mode is a good example.?
From: Bruce Beford N1RX <n1rx@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 1, 2018 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] HF beacons for US launched balloons
sorry, no.
These flight rely on a large quantity of stations monitoring the small slices of the amateur bands that these uncontrolled beacons operate in. Putting a transmitter outside the amateur bands accomplishes nothing. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to this issue. The best I could hope for by asking about this, is to at least start a discussion, and get people thinking about what it means to operate an amateur radio station within the confines of the US FCC regulations. We all have some pretty amazing privileges as licensed operators. I believe that those privileges, we also must accept responsibility to play within the regulations, and encourage other operators to do the same.
73
Bruce
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
So where does that place all the processor based devices owned by a ham that are unattended and radiate both inside and outside amateur frequency allocations. What you appear to be saying here is that a non amateur can launch but an amateur cannot. Does this mean that an amateur cannot own a car with smart cruise control. what would happen if you let the xyl drive it. Where does this all end.? This is the spot to place all the smiley faces Trevor VK3PD?
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-------- Original message -------- From: john <johnmb@...> Date: 2/01/2018 09:40 (GMT+10:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] HF beacons for US launched balloons On 1/1/2018 5:16 PM, Bruce Beford N1RX wrote: > Trevor, there is no power level below which an intentional radiator in > the amateur radio bands becomes "unregulated". Easy solution! Put a 13.9 Mhz rock in the rig and we're good. John K5MO
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
sorry, no.
These flight rely on a large quantity of stations monitoring the small slices of the amateur bands that these uncontrolled beacons operate in. Putting a transmitter outside the amateur bands accomplishes nothing. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to this issue. The best I could hope for by asking about this, is to at least start a discussion, and get people thinking about what it means to operate an amateur radio station within the confines of the US FCC regulations. We all have some pretty amazing privileges as licensed operators. I believe that those privileges, we also must accept responsibility to play within the regulations, and encourage other operators to do the same.
73
Bruce
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
On 1/1/2018 5:16 PM, Bruce Beford N1RX wrote: Trevor, there is no power level below which an intentional radiator in the amateur radio bands becomes "unregulated". Easy solution! Put a 13.9 Mhz rock in the rig and we're good. John K5MO
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Little balloons and big regulations
Hi Wes,
I'm even more of an OF than you (licensed first in 1970) ! :-) Common sense should trump arbitrary government regulations in all cases (not just ham radio).
These small balloons bother precisely nobody as one has to work hard just to *hear* them, much less be interfered with by them. They are causing precisely nobody any issue, and won't until someone writes the FCC numerous times about them to inquire about their "legality" and forces the FCC to get in the middle of something they'd prefer to continue to ignore.
HNY!
John K5MO
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On 1/1/2018 3:07 PM, Wes wrote: It seems the 'newer' crop of ARS operators have less concern about sticking strictly to the regs than those of us who came into the hobby thru a lot of hard work and study. I was first licensed in 1972
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
Trevor, there is no power level below which an intentional radiator in the amateur radio bands becomes "unregulated". It is still an amateur radio station, and must be operated in accordance with the relavent regulations, including emissions purity, proper IDing. (and control of operations) etc. QRP and QRPp enthusiasts regularly run at these low power levels. It is the hallmark of a diligent operator to insure all of his or her "stations" are compliant and under the proper control. 73 Bruce N1RX Trevor wrote:
We are talking power levels of 50 to 100milliwatts. With an eirp of even less.
What is the power level in the US where devices become unregulated.
73s HNY
Trevor
VK3PD
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Re: HF beacons for US launched balloons
What does the FAA or other world air traffic
organizations have to say about it?
john
AD5YE
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Re: Working on the 80m QCX again
Hi Mike,
Like I said best practice regarding SA measurements isn't my field.
It's definitely not mine either :o) and I think it shows
I think there a couple of people in the group that have spotted things in other peoples plots before, who are better qualified than me.
In their absence due to holidays?:-D? I see two possible causes for erroneous results:-
The alligator is in close proximity to the filter circuit, Capacitively? coupling the generator straight into the windings.
Try and put a (grounded) coax tail as close as you can to the input.
I've got a bunch of RG174. I could use that
(A scope probe could be high impedance & X1 or X10 construction, so that it's self could give rise to errors.)
Good point
As you say, the Tracking Generator output is marked as 50 Ohm,?
(as statement that it's perimeters are correct when presented to a 50 Ohm load rather than 'IT' is a 50 Ohm termination?)
Correct. The SA input is a 50¦¸ load... the TG expects a 50¦¸ load. Since the output of the LPF was tied to the input I assumed (not a good word) that the TG would see 50¦¸.?
I have a niggling feeling it's good practice to place a 50 Ohm pad between that and Device Under Test to make sure the LPF is correctly terminated.
Other than comparing the overall shape I wouldn't spend a lot of time fine tuning the LPF trying to get the last 0.001dB using the SA in this way as it may / will change again when used in circuit with the QCX.
(The unknown 'component' is the impedance of the class E PA as its not constant and changes in operation, ??
There has being past talk of modelling different changes but I believe this assumes a constant 50 Ohm match, real world my differ.)
Fine tuning of the LPF is best done in it's working configuration with the QCX PA and padded down to the SA input and tuning for max attenuation of harmonic components ??
My QCX has a couple of problems. (1) low output and (2) apparently it needs a hearing aide (we know that's not normally the case). I can only get it to peak on the high side of 2. The fancy front end has me lost :o)
-- 73 NE5U Mike
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Re: Turn on your QRSS Transmitters!
"There was an outage at ?yesterday which is where a lot of people host their grabbers."
You get what you pay for.
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Replacement Proc Chip QCX
Is there a way to get a replacement processor chip for the QCX? I blew up pin 19 and need another.
Thanks and HNY
Barry
NF1O
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Jeff KP3FT
Newt N4EWT
J68HZ
Bruce Beford N1RX
barry NF1O