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Re: QCX alignment : what is it, and when do you need to repeat the process ?
As Alan says.
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If the QCX has recently been built by you:
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1. Make sure C1 is not at either maximum or minimum at the signal peak...if it is then you will need to make alterations to the input BPF ...either capacitance or inductance.
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2. Adjustment of the three variable resistors interact with each other slightly, repeat several times to make sure you have the best results.
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If you have a fault don't automatically assume it needs re alignment...check it through logically...altering the above may make it harder to find the fault.
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73 Steve G4EDG? |
Re: QRP Labs xciever with SSB capability
Hello Manuel? At the outset - just to be clear - you know I love you, and I am not interested in any kind of emotive argument about anything, I am only very interested on the technical aspects, ONLY.
Sorry I didn't know there were personal issues between you and Pascal VK2IHL (who I assume is who you mean by "them"). And I don't know what you mean by hoops. Maybe I misread the VK2IHL page but I only saw someone who is clearly technically competent, and who made a lot of experiments on uSDX, and I thought uSDX and (tr)uSDX are supposed to be intended for experimentation, so it all looked OK for me. Perhaps I missed the things you mention. ?
I think?IMD3 is a very good measure of a transmitter's SSB capability. Have you got an IMD measurement for (tr)uSDX? It appeared to me that there was very little about this on the internet other than the VK2IHL pages and the other link I included? .? ??
That, I am unsure?of. Maybe I misunderstood you. But the ORIGINAL uSDX implementation was a modification of the original QRP Labs QCX as everyone knows. I believe the original uSDX used drain modulation. PWM was applied via the MPS751 envelope shaping in QCX. Later, it was realized that several more components could be eliminated, if gate bias modulation was used. However the impact on performance is quite significant.? I am not sure what you would consider as a valid proof but on the?VK2IHL page, if you search for 'FROM THE POLES" it will take you far down the page (which is very long) to a uSDX implementation by some Polish radio amateurs; they did indeed retain a PNP transistor and PWM Drain modulation. VK2IHL had measured with this modification, an IMD3 of -20dBm, and with the gate modulation, -5dBm. It appears to me that there is therefore both a practical implementation, and that the drain modulation example is superior to gate modulation.? ?
See above, there appears to be reliable experimental evidence. It's also very significant, I think, and important, that the measurement was made in the same lab on the same equipment by the same person (VK2IHL) since very often, there can be severe changes in experimental method or equipment from one person to another. From what I can see, VK2IHL appears to be competent and have reliable methods and equipment, and made the measurement on both modulation styles equivalently.? ?
Certainly! And I will recap here for the sake of others... in the FDIM paper I said that I was optimistic about the future capability of QMX to implement SSB since uSDX had already demonstrated the concept, and that QMX had a greatly superior hardware. Specifically I mentioned that the amplitude modulation design in QMX uses a very linear control characteristic which has a measured 37dB of amplitude control range. Meaning that the transfer characteristic from the 12-bit STM32 DAC output pin to the RF output Vpp of the amplifier is a very linear relationship with 37dB control range.? Comparatively I had (since it was my first thought, to try, during the QMX design) measured the uSDX style with gate modulation. I measured 20dB of control range and a very poor linearity.? So what we discussed, was this "claim", which did not sound too good. But again please understand, I have no personal axe to grind, I have tremendous respect for what Guido PE1NNZ has achieved in the firmware and your own huge contribution to the project. I am only interested in the technical aspects.? uSDX uses a 10-bit modulation which goes into an RC filter and this then is applied as gate bias to the MOSFETs. There's a rule in DSP that each 1 bit is worth 6dB of dynamic range. Does this mean uSDX has 60dB of control range? NO. It means the maximum theoretical dynamic range would be 60dB. This is a theoretical maximum boundary limit which cannot be exceeded. But the practical realized dynamic range can be less, even much less, depending on the circuit characteristics.? In this case, I found - by MEASUREMENT - that once the DC gate bias voltage goes beyond 1.25V, there is no further increase in RF output of the PA. Therefore the 2 most significant bits of the PWM are already rendered obsolete, since whether they are 0 or 1, makes no difference to the output power. 8 bits remain. Which still doesn't mean we have 48dB of dynamic range. Because now we have to examine the opposite boundary, the zero end of the scale.? So at zero DC bias what happens? There's still about 4 to 5V Vpp output of the PA. Why? This is also possible to understand by considering what happens with the gate voltage. The BS170 datasheet states the typical gate threshold voltage is 2.1V. However, you are driving it via a coupling capacitor with a 5V squarewave. When you apply 0V DC bias at the gate, the squarewave hitting the gate goes from -2.5V to?+2.5V. The?+2.5V side is partially switching on the BS170s, it is higher than the threshold voltage. This is why there is still 5Vpp RF output of the PA even when the DC bias is zero. So this determines the lower boundary.? This is why the control range is 20dB. Because at maximum 1.25V DC bias, the RF output is say 5W (45Vpp); and at minimum 0V DC bias of the control range, RF output is 4-5Vpp; and this is a range of 20dB. 20dB comes from measurement of the practical implementation of the circuit. It cannot be assumed to be 60dB based on a theoretical 10-bit PWM and 6dB per bit.? In between the 0V and 1.2V ends of the DC bias control range, the transfer characteristic is of course heavily non-linear, the classic fallen-over S-shape we expect from a MOSFET. Which, I do understand, you can somewhat correct for in software with a pre-distortion lookup table, as you do, I believe, in uSDX.? So this is the basis of my "QMX Claims" in my FDIM paper... it was all based on hours of lab time, blood sweat and tears. And burns, too, of course.? Similarly I could not claim, on QMX, that I had 72dB of amplitude control because I use a 12-bit DAC peripheral of the STM32F446. I do not use the entire upper limit of the DAC's range because I have to consider that a user may be using different supply voltages, and cater for that variation. And at the bottom end of the control range, I also do not get zero RF output. So again, measurement of the practically realized range is required an in this case, I measured 37dB control range.? The preference for drain modulation also makes sense from a thought-experiment or you might say, theoretical perspective. When using drain modulation, to a large extent the Class-E nature (or switching Class-D in QMX' case) of the amplification is mostly independent of the supply voltage. The transistor continues to act as a saturated switch, regardless. Therefore you have a lot of control over the operating state of the transistor. This is not the case when you use gate modulation, because now you put the device into the non-saturated region of its characteristics. Now you have a Class-C amplifier and a lot more dependence on device characteristics and their variation, as well as the non-linear behaviour. It all got a lot more complicated and that means I think, that it also got a lot more difficult to control the behaviour to obtain good performance. When designing QMX my first thought, for the amplitude modulation aspect of the PA, was to try to apply a similar scheme of gate bias modulation as used in uSDX. I have huge admiration for the uSDX achievements in the firmware and the concepts which it has popularized among radio amateurs. It certainly opened my eyes. This is WHY I measured the gate modulation performance.? But, the results aren't satisfactory. I could not accept the performance. This is why I searched for a better way and found it in my own repertoire, in the form of the drain modulation circuit used in the Ultimate3S 5W PA kit - that PA modulation circuit is interesting to read about?(starting at page 9); and it was the work of Alan?G8LCO. It has a good amplitude control linearity and wider range.? So this is the background to the FDIM QMX comment. And as a result of my?experiments, I concluded that 1) The uSDX could have been somewhat improved merely by a different choice of resistors in the PWM output filter, that would have meant 10-bits full scale covered only the range 0 to 1.25V instead of 0 to 5V; though most probably this increase in usable resolution from 8 to 10 bits makes little practical impact on performance.? 2) The uSDX could have been significantly improved by the use of drain modulation rather than gate modulation, as it provides the opportunity (even without more complex modulation circuits such as QMX has) to provide a wider control range and with better linearity.? 3) For QMX to?obtain a good performance, I should use a CPU with a good DAC (as I did not want to have PWM sidebands), so I chose STM32F446 (based on that and of course a whole long list of other requirements) and I should use drain modulation based on my 5W PA kit circuit.? 73 Hans G0UPL ? |
Re: QCX alignment : what is it, and when do you need to repeat the process ?
On 13/08/2024 09:55, Eben Fourie via groups.io wrote:
I understand the manual says to do this once construction is complete. But are there other situations where you would need to repeat it ? Possibly after tweaking L1/2/3 for optimum power output ?The manual says:- Band-pass trimmer capacitor peaking, C1 ? I-Q amplitude balance, R27 ? Audio phase shift adjustments, R17 and R24 The first is obvious, unlikely to change appreciably with different antennas or LPF adjustment. The other two affect the reduction of the unwanted sideband level. Not likely to change. 73 Alan G4ZFQ |
QCX alignment : what is it, and when do you need to repeat the process ?
Could someone please have a go to try and explain in simple terms what the alignment process on the QCX actually does ?
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I understand the manual says to do this once construction is complete. But are there other situations where you would need to repeat it ? Possibly after tweaking L1/2/3 for optimum power output ?
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Thanks in advance |
Re: QRP Labs xciever with SSB capability
On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 09:55 AM, Hans Summers wrote:
lot of interesting info hereI disagree, as you can clearly sense their agenda. You don?t even need to read between the lines as both make their personal issues with us/me relatively clear. We decided against "jumping through their hoops", when those hitpieces appeared, as there?s nothing to gain. Best way to deal with trolls: Don?t feed them.
But briefly: It is easy to provoke this IMD bahavior when you overdrive the input. So my advise would be: Don?t overdrive the input.
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On the other side, I?m still missing ANY proof, that drain modulation is superior to gate modulation, as there was never a practial implementation.
I hope, that your SSB Firmware for QMX can finally change that. And I?m really looking forward to that, to be honest !
Until then it?s just a theoretical unproven claim.
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And we already had personal discussions at length about your initial QMX Claims in your FDIM Paper, if you remember......
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73 Manuel; DL2MAN |
Re: QRP Labs xciever with SSB capability
I think this is a very interesting read on uSDX/(tr)uSDX, a lot of interesting info here: And: 73 Hans G0UPL On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 10:30?AM Manuel; DL2MAN via <DL2MAN=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: QRP Labs xciever with SSB capability
That?s pretty vague and too anecdotal for a technical person, like you.
I can?t really tell what went wrong on your "brassboard" but I assume, you?ve used old QCX SSB Code.
Same goes for QCX: QCX SSB Code was not developed further since now abt. 2,5 years. Even though people have claimed to improve stuff, they?ve just flipped some switches in Guidos code.
No real work happened on the SSB side.?
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You have been given a recent version ? What would that be ? Chinese clone like red corners, that also comes with old QCX-SSB Code ?
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The only software, that was permanantly worked on, was (tr)uSDX Code.
What that can do was documented in the video link below.
This video includes recordings of 5 different Receive stations of the (tr)uSDX Signal and I was using 3 different mics as shown.
You can argue, that it sounds rough, but it gets the job done.
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73 Manuel; DL2MAN |
See what emissions you can receive. Newer rigs tend to have a soundcard built-in and connect directly to a PC via USB. Older rigs benefit from a digital interface like signalink that can also connect via USB.?
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RTTY can be done inside n1mm logging software via a program such as mmtty. This mode is tuned in like cw and ssb.?
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Many other modes use WSJTx. These require precision time keeping, often an internet connected pc is sufficient. Off the grid GPS makes sense.?
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I do wspr with a U3S standalone transmitter, it's 200 mW have reached all continents. It uses GPS.?
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Once you establish receiving, you are nearly there. Yes that wb8imy book is quite useful. Some modes unfortunately are less in vogue. I honestly miss psk31, it was fun until folk started sending long brag files listing every piece of gear connected up.??
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Curt
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Re: QMX Tune rate
To answer my own question, I put my QMX (midband, rev 4, f/w 026) in FT8 on WSJT-X on 14.074. Lots of strong signals all over the sub band. I then changed the band on the QMX (NOT using WSJT-X) to 7.074. Lots of signals noted on WSJT-X, although WSJT-X still thought I was on 20m. I then used the Tune to move to the MHz digit and changed frequency from 7.074 to 14.074. No signals noted on the waterfall! This is exactly what is expected if it has not changed LPF and is still using the 40m LPF.?
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So, bottom line is that tuning far out of band will NOT change the LPF nor the BPF. Tuning lower in frequency (eg 20m to 40m) doesn't have as great a hit as the LPF would still pass lower frequencies, but the BPF still restricts out of band frequencies somewhat. When I tuned from 14.074 to 7.074, I got as many decodes as on 4 as I did on 20m, which suggests that the BPF doesn't do all that much. I?didn't do any Tx testing as that might be a stress on the finals.?
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I would not be surprised if Hans has this on his list for a future update, but I am sure that there are many, many more pressing concerns ahead of this.?
On another note, the Reg 2 (ie, US) band restrictions make this issue moot. It also makes using 60m channels MUCH easier for the US. And if I want to tune around outside of the band, I can simply turn that off. I?
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73, Dan? NM3A |
Re: QMX+ Boost Power Out on 20M?
DOH.....
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Completely my bad ... Thanks to everyone who assisted.? Greg
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Re: QRP Labs xciever with SSB capability
Well I still have my brass board work.? I pust the QCX back to its nominal design.
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I was given a recent version... tried to talk to the local usual group and the response
was sounds terrible, is that you Allison.? There are two or three in the area and CW
is their primary use as they gave up on SSB with it.??
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Many did it because it was cheap enough if it failed it was not painful.
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As a CW radio is not bad.? Eats more current that QCX.
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Allison ------------------ Post online only,? direct email will go to a bit bucket. |
Firmware 026, Tuning not possible for 60m
Hi after Updating my firmware from 021 to 026, a good new functions like 50 to 600 Hz filters for cw is possible. Good stuff. but now it?s not possible anymore to tune the 60 m band. 5.332, next step 5.348 , 5.358,5 , 5.373, 5.405 . No possibility to tone it like I want. After downgrade to 021 the tuning is possible again.
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73 de Matt
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Re: QCX Numbers?
Mark,
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L4/C30 in QCX forms a parallel resonance circuit as part of the class-E amplifier.
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In the uSDX this was changed to a series resonant circuit (adding a L in series with C30), making L4 frequency independent.
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While parallel resonance circuit is easier to tune, it is less efficient (70% instead of 85% if I remember well), but the series resonance circuit was? more critical in tuning in combination with an impedance transformation circuit in the same series network.
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Guido
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Re: QCX Numbers?
John...Is that true with the QCX? It uses a class E PA which, as I understand it (admittedly imperfectly), needs a resonant input circuit. In the case of the QCX, L4 has different values depending on the band. So it's not enough to just vary the LPF, L4 would also have to change. I ran into this when I was playing with the ?SDX a while back. It would be easy enough to switch the LPF based on the band but a bit more difficult to switch the PA input, L4 in this case. It's one of the drawbacks for using class E, they're mostly single band as Hans says in the manual... 'A Class-E Power Amplifier contains a resonant circuit at the frequency of operation, so it is only suitable for single-band use.'
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Multi-band class E is possible but needs to be designed into the circuit. Check out Barb's (WB2CBA) design for an eight band ?SDX....
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I am planning to use that approach with the 50W amp...bypass the LPF and use an external switchable LPF board...but it's not class E so that should work (famous last words :) ). --
73...? ? ? Mark? ? ?AA7TA |
Re: QMX+ build complete. Minor hiccup on 3 volt power supply board.
I have a cheap camera microscope that really helped checking my work as I went along. And extra strong reading glasses. I just wish that I would have used it to check the power supply boards before I started.?
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I've built both a high and a low band QMX in the last year. I can say the QMX+ was much less difficult to build. Lots of room to bump around. You don't have to squeeze stuff in tight spots like the regular compact QMX.
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But winding those extra few toroids was not as fun with arthritic thumbs. :)?
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I've made a few CW contacts and a bunch of FT8 contacts with my + so far. Fun times.
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Re: QMXAudio sweep levels., PCM1804 or not
I took the QMX to work to use their? high power binocular microscopes and found that the end pad of C509 looked like it had a crack in it. I replaced the cap and everything now looks like the pictures in the operating manual. I couldn't see any cutter scrapes or other physical contact damage on the capacitor, so I don't know whether this was an unlucky build fault or my self inflicted damage, but my suspicion is that I must have done it somehow as the rest of the surface mount build looks good and I don't believe I had a bad cap and no-one else has.
As to my original question - does a reading of -26dB on the audio scan count as "Very-low" , then I think it does. If you get low values (-20dB? -26dB) on most of the scans in the Hardware tests, then it is worth following the path through C509 to see if there is any damage.
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Steve.
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