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Inconsistent timing in WSPR mode

"cctbcn"
 

I've put my 30 meter UQRSS together and have been fiddling with it for a bit now and have noticed something that has me scratching my head.

I'm using a Axiom Sandpiper II GPS module that has a serial output (RS-232, which I have inverted to 5 volt logic) and a 1pps output that goes high (to +3.3 volts) for 100 milliseconds.

The GPS receiver outputs a number of sentences, namely the GGA, GLL, GSV, GSA, RMC and VTG strings: There doesn't appear to be any way to select which ones are emitted.

What I'm observing is that timing of the clock displayed in WSPR mode seems to vary randomly +/- 1 or 2 seconds from actual GPS time and WWV.

What is interesting is that the second displayed on the LCD *is* synchronized precisely with UTC - it's just that it's the wrong second.

I've tried baud rates from 4800 through 38400 and haven't been able to see any difference.

Thinking that the 100ms long 1pps pulse (rising edge coincides with the second) I put a series capacitor (0.05uF) with a 10k to ground on the UQRSS side to turn it into a brief rising pulse, but this hasn't changed anything, either.

One thing that I *do* see happening is that if I stare at the display long enough, I note that the seconds digits occasionally do not advance which explains it occasional lagging: Apparently, it will eventually re-check the time and, unseen by me thusfar, it will pop ahead again - by 1 or 2 seconds in advance of UTC.

So, several questions come to mind:

- Is the 1pps rising-edge sensitive? If so, this would make its duration irrelevant.
- Is the logic threshold on the 1PPS input safely within the range to accommodate 3.3 volt logic?
- Could too many NMEA sentences be doing something internally (e.g. too many recources/interrupts) that might cause the timing to wander excessively?

Since the 30 meter oscillator is on all of the time, I suppose that I could monitor the frequency during the "key up" period if I knew the amount of offset and if there is any repeated self calibration going on - this, to see if the FLL is functioning, or also being affected by the loss of 1pps pulses?

* * *

On an unrelated note, I have observed that occasionally, the CPU (or possibly the display) does not start up when power is applied, but a disconnecting and re-application of power has always been successful.

The recent thread about popped finals brings this to mind: If the oscillator doesn't start up for some reason - and neither does the CPU - then the FET could be turned fully on with no RF drive if the pin were to float high - or even if the CPU was running, but the oscillator outputting a logic state that, when keyed, turned on the FET. Years ago, I designed a LowFER/MedFER power amplifier that used a coupling cap, resistor and diode to protect the FET should a similar event occur!

73,

Clint
KA7OEI
Re: 40m-UQRSS-MCU also suitable for 40m?

Hans Summers
 


Hi Stefan

Just to confirm what others have already said - there is no change in the processor at all, they are all identical for any frequency from 0.5MHz to 20MHz. You must enter the correct frequency for your crystal in the "Frequency" setting, because the processor uses it for timing purposes, it counts the crystal frequency to know when 1 second has elapsed etc.

73 Hans G0UPL


--- In QRPLabs@..., Stefan Teuscher <stefan.teuscher@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Hans and dear Stephen,
>?
> I have here 2 kits of 30m-UQRSS. The first one I have built up, working?
> well.
> Now I think about building up the second one not for 30m but for 40m.
> The question is: Is there a difference in the MCU when the URQSS is?
> working with a clock frequency of around 7 MHz instead of 10 MHz?
> After all the clock of the MCU is derived from the TX oscillator.
>?
> Or can I simply take the MCU I have, use a 40 m quartz, modify the?
> coils, of course, and that's it?
>?
> 73s, Stefan, DL4GCS
>
Re: Constant carrier

Hans Summers
 


Hi Alex,

There have been a number of firmware versions since v1.02, the full list is here??, but I do not think that any of the bug fixes are applicable to your case.?

I did find the photo you uploaded eventually, you put it in someone else's folder I think ;-) ? In case anyone else couldn't find it, it's here in woodiescbj's folder:??

That photo shows message "TEST" in QRSS mode. I do not think there is a problem here. You can see the strong line when the transmission is on. The much weaker line when the keying is off, is just your sensitive receiver picking up the signal from the oscillator, un-amplified. It's normal I think, no problem. Receiving stations will not pick up the signal from your crystal oscillator. It's just that you're right next to it.?

In the Test mode you should see an FSK square wave as in the manual at section 9. If you do not - then you need to check what settings you have in the "FSK (Hz)" setting and the "FSK Adj." setting. Try 5 and 01,000 respectively. If you still see no shift in TEST mode, then I think some checking of the circuit around the LED is needed.?

73 Hans G0UPL



--- In QRPLabs@..., "g7kse" wrote:
>
>?
>?
> Thanks for the quick response Hans,
>?
> hope this helps better diagnose if there is a problem
>?
> The software version is 1.02
> Kit bought in August
> Receiver is connected to PC running Argo
> Mode selected (nominally) CW
> RF load on kit 20dBm
> Rx RF Gain backed off?
>?
> Powering up is a bit hit and miss - Occasionally it doesn't start up, sometimes it'll start up with what I assume is a corrupted set of characters on the LCD. Sometimes its fine. I can't find a fault with wiring here although any pointers would be helpful
>?
> In test mode I was expecting to see the frequency shift every second (Speed set to 01)with an output on Argo pretty much as per the build instructions section 7. What I actually get is what looks and sounds like a carrier without any frequency shift. Or nothing at all.
>?
> In CW mode I get a similar situation where I get a constant carrier heard through the receiver speaker and shown on Argo. The output looks like the carrier is on and keying produces the correct code but he carrier never drops off. I'll put a capture from Argo into the photos folder.
>?
> Hope this is enough. I will keep on experimenting here and hopefully will get it sorted out.?
>?
> Alex, g7kse
>?
>?
> --- In QRPLabs@..., Hans Summers wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alex,
> >?
> > I'm sorry but it's not quite clear to me what you're seeing here, and what
> > you're expecting to see.
> >?
> > Please can you confirm your version is v1.02? Versions before that had an
> > on/off keying problem but that was fixed in v1.02. FYI the full version
> > history is here: .
> >?
> > You mention the "Test" mode - in this mode the signal should be constant
> > carrier, with a frequency shift every N seconds where N is the speed
> > setting you have entered.
> >?
> > How are you monitoring the signal and what load are you using at the RF
> > output of the kit? Are you using Argo to monitor, or just listening on the
> > receiver audio?
> >?
> > I think more information is necessary, to help to either diagnose the
> > problem, or even if there IS an actual problem :-)
> >?
> > 73 Hans G0UPL
> >
> >?
> >?
> > --- In QRPLabs@..., "Alex" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've got a little problem that I think isn't a result of my mistake. I
> > get a constant carrier and can not see anything whilst in test mode. I
> > don't have sophisticated test gear just a reiver and dmm.
> > >
> > > the kit powers up and if I use the cw mode for example there is a
> > constant carrier on just about the right frequency and the cw dit and dahs
> > will go on nicely but the carrier doesn't drop off. Its making the PA quite
> > hot and I'm sure (well fairly) it not something I've done. the software
> > version is 1.2
> > >
> > > Any clues?
> > >
> > > Alex, g7kse
> > >
> >
>
Re: 40m-UQRSS-MCU also suitable for 40m?

"Philip"
 

GQRP club have the 7040Khz crystal too...

Also,the 3500 and 7000Khz crystals from AM Tools are the ones that will pull further and are ideal for the UQRSS kit on 40/80 QRSS.
They are the larger can type...


Running my kit on 40 WSPR this morning...conditions not too hot though.

Philip G4JVF

--- In QRPLabs@..., Chris Mac <chrismac@...> wrote:

Amtools on eBay also stock 7040 kHz. Also found at


Sent from Chris Mac's iPhone
Amateur radio callsign: G??MQW


On 8 Oct 2012, at 21:44, Stefan Teuscher <stefan.teuscher@...> wrote:

Hello Philip,

many thank's for your info. Sometimes it is better to ask first.
So I will build it up for 40 m and therefore ordered a quartz with 7,040
MHz for 40m-WSPR-band here:

Perhaps this is also interesting for others who are looking for a
WSPR-quartz for 40 m. (Unfortunately the webshop is ony in german.)

Hope it'll work.

73, Stefan, DL4GCS
Re: 40m-UQRSS-MCU also suitable for 40m?

Chris Mac
 

开云体育

Amtools on eBay also stock 7040 kHz. Also found at?


Sent from Chris Mac's iPhone
Amateur radio callsign: G?MQW

On 8 Oct 2012, at 21:44, Stefan Teuscher <stefan.teuscher@...> wrote:

?

Hello Philip,

many thank's for your info. Sometimes it is better to ask first.
So I will build it up for 40 m and therefore ordered a quartz with 7,040
MHz for 40m-WSPR-band here:

Perhaps this is also interesting for others who are looking for a
WSPR-quartz for 40 m. (Unfortunately the webshop is ony in german.)

Hope it'll work.

73, Stefan, DL4GCS
Re: 40m-UQRSS-MCU also suitable for 40m?

Stefan Teuscher
 

Hello Philip,

many thank's for your info. Sometimes it is better to ask first.
So I will build it up for 40 m and therefore ordered a quartz with 7,040 MHz for 40m-WSPR-band here:

Perhaps this is also interesting for others who are looking for a WSPR-quartz for 40 m. (Unfortunately the webshop is ony in german.)

Hope it'll work.

73, Stefan, DL4GCS
Re: 40m-UQRSS-MCU also suitable for 40m?

"Philip"
 

Stefan

I have a kit with sockets for the capactitors and crystal and I use external LP filters to suit each band..

The same board works on 20/30/40 and 80 so yes, you're good to go..

Philip G4JVF

--- In QRPLabs@..., Stefan Teuscher <stefan.teuscher@...> wrote:

Dear Hans and dear Stephen,

I have here 2 kits of 30m-UQRSS. The first one I have built up, working
well.
Now I think about building up the second one not for 30m but for 40m.
The question is: Is there a difference in the MCU when the URQSS is
working with a clock frequency of around 7 MHz instead of 10 MHz?
After all the clock of the MCU is derived from the TX oscillator.

Or can I simply take the MCU I have, use a 40 m quartz, modify the
coils, of course, and that's it?

73s, Stefan, DL4GCS
Re: Bits and pieces. General stuff.

"andyfoad@..."
 

Thanks lads for the replies.

I'm not sure exactly what G0PKT is doing. Not everyone is using the
"Ultimate" kit of course ;-)
I think that's where some confusion has arisen, because the G0PKT/
Martello website mentions using one of the kits for the G0PKT 24/7
beacon. Obviously I've been trying to join the dots with all that
I've reading seeing and seeing on this subject and had to make a
few assumptions ;-)


So he may be using something else.
That's probably it.

Oh well, I've seen a few more terms to read up on.

FATCW and SLANTCW (Colin G6AVK's post) is two of them.

(Never even heard of it).

73 all de Andy G0FTD
40m-UQRSS-MCU also suitable for 40m?

Stefan Teuscher
 

Dear Hans and dear Stephen,

I have here 2 kits of 30m-UQRSS. The first one I have built up, working well.
Now I think about building up the second one not for 30m but for 40m.
The question is: Is there a difference in the MCU when the URQSS is working with a clock frequency of around 7 MHz instead of 10 MHz?
After all the clock of the MCU is derived from the TX oscillator.

Or can I simply take the MCU I have, use a 40 m quartz, modify the coils, of course, and that's it?

73s, Stefan, DL4GCS
Re: PA keeps blowing.

"G1IVG"
 

Stefan & Steinar,

It's working again << BIG SMILE >> I replaced the 74HC00 with a 74HCT00 (note the "T") and the transistors are staying much cooler. I couldn't get a 74HC00 over the weekend so I installed a 74HCT00.

The only problem I have now is that the frequency is higher than I have set in the configuration and also in the display. For example I have set it to 10.139950MHz in the configuration. However it's actually transmitting on 10.140800MHz. I'll double check the other settings later tonight. If it's not one of the settings, I'll try and find a 74HC00 the same as the original supplied with the kit and see if the frequency error is due to me using the "HCT" version of the 74HC00.

I'm currently in Slow Hell mode sending "G1IVG" at 2mins past the hour and at 10 minutes intervals.

I can currently see my beacon on the following link:



Here is a snap shot from earlier:



Many thanks to all those who helped track down the problem.


Regards
Colin
G1IVG

--- In QRPLabs@..., Stefan Teuscher <stefan.teuscher@...> wrote:

Colin,

I suppose it is the same as Steinar writes, too.
Because Q1 is a N-channel MOSFET it connects drain to source if PIN 8 (=
gate of Q1) is high.
So if that is the case Q1 produces a short circuit between from +5V via
L1, Q1 to ground. If this lasts for a very long time (seconds are long)
Q1 will die by overheating.

Now it can be, that the 74HC00 is blown or the oscillator simply does't
oscillate.
So even if you have no scope you can measure the voltage at pin 11 or
pin 6. It should be around 2,5 V if the oscialltor is running. Then
change the 74HC00 as Steinar wrote because the last logic element is
broken.
If you measure around 0 V the oscillator is not running and you can try
to find out, why it doesn't run.

Perhaps it would be good to insert a fuse between power supply and
UQRSS. Better change fuses than transistors. But it is likely you have
to change the 74HC00 anyway - and it is a bit tricky to change it. So
changing Q1 also is not much more work to do.

73s, Stefan, DL4GCS


Am 05.10.2012 20:03, schrieb G1IVG:
Stefan,

Pin 8 is at 5v with both transistors removed.

Regards
Colin G1IVG
Re: Bits and pieces. General stuff.

Hans Summers
 


Hi Andy

I'm not sure exactly what G0PKT is doing. Not everyone is using the "Ultimate" kit of course ;-) ?So he may be using something else.

In the Ultimate kit is is possible to program your own patterns using the "Custom" message feature. This is described in section 8 of the manual on page 26. You just enclose the custom message inside the ordinary message, starting and stopping with a * character. The custom message can be inserted in any FSKCW, DFCW or QRSS mode message. The first two numbers after the * are the duration in seconds of each symbol. Subsequent numbers are the FSK shift of each symbol. You can use a space to turn off the carrier. You can create any kind of patterns you like :-)

73 Hans G0UPL


--- In QRPLabs@..., "andyfoad@..." wrote:
>
> OK, I don't have a kit yet, but I'm preparing for when I get it running in a few weeks.
>?
> 1) Well today I've just managed my first QRSS decode and it's the
> first time I've ever even listened for it. I discovered a good?
> signal from G0PKT about 50 miles away, so I'm feeling quite pleased
> with myself.
>?
> 2) I think it's well cool doing the "drawings" on the screen and the
> patterns as well as seeing the traditional on-off keying and FSK CW.
>?
> 3)Having seen G0PKT's signal move from OOK/FSK/drawing modes etc?
> I'm keen to know how ?you set it up with the kit to cycle through?
> each mode ?
>?
> 4)What mode is that does the "drawing" ? The downloadable user?
> manual mentions customisable FSK patterns but I'm keen to see exactly?
> how it's programmed and what else can be done.
>?
> Any youtube vids about ?
>?
> Wahaaaaay !
>?
> I can't believe I'm getting so excited over this simple stuff and?
> yet I am ;-)
>?
> 73 de Andy G0FTD
> GQRP 13690
>
Re: Bits and pieces. General stuff.

Colin J Thomson
 

Hi Andy,

On Sunday 07 Oct 2012 13:21:23 andyfoad@... wrote:

4)What mode is that does the "drawing" ? The downloadable user
manual mentions customisable FSK patterns but I'm keen to see exactly
how it's programmed and what else can be done.
I guess you mean by the "drawing modes" the Triangles and SlantCW and FATCW
these are generated by Chris DL6JAN's CWKTiny keyer.
G0PKT and others use this with the first QRPLabs kit instead of the onboard
keyer chip.

73 Colin - G6AVK
--
Fedora 17 (Beefy Miracle)
Registered Linux user number #342953
Re bits and pieces

Stephen Farthing
 

Andy,

Please take a look at the manual which you can download from . It should explain pretty much everything you need to know.?

73s Steve
Re: Constant carrier

"g7kse"
 

Thanks for the quick response Hans,

hope this helps better diagnose if there is a problem

The software version is 1.02
Kit bought in August
Receiver is connected to PC running Argo
Mode selected (nominally) CW
RF load on kit 20dBm
Rx RF Gain backed off

Powering up is a bit hit and miss - Occasionally it doesn't start up, sometimes it'll start up with what I assume is a corrupted set of characters on the LCD. Sometimes its fine. I can't find a fault with wiring here although any pointers would be helpful

In test mode I was expecting to see the frequency shift every second (Speed set to 01)with an output on Argo pretty much as per the build instructions section 7. What I actually get is what looks and sounds like a carrier without any frequency shift. Or nothing at all.

In CW mode I get a similar situation where I get a constant carrier heard through the receiver speaker and shown on Argo. The output looks like the carrier is on and keying produces the correct code but he carrier never drops off. I'll put a capture from Argo into the photos folder.

Hope this is enough. I will keep on experimenting here and hopefully will get it sorted out.

Alex, g7kse

--- In QRPLabs@..., Hans Summers <hans.summers@...> wrote:

Hi Alex,

I'm sorry but it's not quite clear to me what you're seeing here, and what
you're expecting to see.

Please can you confirm your version is v1.02? Versions before that had an
on/off keying problem but that was fixed in v1.02. FYI the full version
history is here: .

You mention the "Test" mode - in this mode the signal should be constant
carrier, with a frequency shift every N seconds where N is the speed
setting you have entered.

How are you monitoring the signal and what load are you using at the RF
output of the kit? Are you using Argo to monitor, or just listening on the
receiver audio?

I think more information is necessary, to help to either diagnose the
problem, or even if there IS an actual problem :-)

73 Hans G0UPL



--- In QRPLabs@..., "Alex" <g7kse@> wrote:

I've got a little problem that I think isn't a result of my mistake. I
get a constant carrier and can not see anything whilst in test mode. I
don't have sophisticated test gear just a reiver and dmm.

the kit powers up and if I use the cw mode for example there is a
constant carrier on just about the right frequency and the cw dit and dahs
will go on nicely but the carrier doesn't drop off. Its making the PA quite
hot and I'm sure (well fairly) it not something I've done. the software
version is 1.2

Any clues?

Alex, g7kse
Bits and pieces. General stuff.

"andyfoad@..."
 

OK, I don't have a kit yet, but I'm preparing for when I get it running in a few weeks.

1) Well today I've just managed my first QRSS decode and it's the
first time I've ever even listened for it. I discovered a good
signal from G0PKT about 50 miles away, so I'm feeling quite pleased
with myself.

2) I think it's well cool doing the "drawings" on the screen and the
patterns as well as seeing the traditional on-off keying and FSK CW.

3)Having seen G0PKT's signal move from OOK/FSK/drawing modes etc
I'm keen to know how you set it up with the kit to cycle through
each mode ?

4)What mode is that does the "drawing" ? The downloadable user
manual mentions customisable FSK patterns but I'm keen to see exactly
how it's programmed and what else can be done.

Any youtube vids about ?

Wahaaaaay !

I can't believe I'm getting so excited over this simple stuff and
yet I am ;-)

73 de Andy G0FTD
GQRP 13690
Re: Constant carrier

Hans Summers
 


Hi Alex,

I'm sorry but it's not quite clear to me what you're seeing here, and what you're expecting to see.

Please can you confirm your version is v1.02? Versions before that had an on/off keying problem but that was fixed in v1.02. FYI the full version history is here:??.

You mention the "Test" mode - in this mode the signal should be constant carrier, with a frequency shift every N seconds where N is the speed setting you have entered.

How are you monitoring the signal and what load are you using at the RF output of the kit? Are you using Argo to monitor, or just listening on the receiver audio??

I think more information is necessary, to help to either diagnose the problem, or even if there IS an actual problem :-)

73 Hans G0UPL


--- In QRPLabs@..., "Alex" wrote:
>
> I've got a little problem that I think isn't a result of my mistake. I get a constant carrier and can not see anything whilst in test mode. I don't have sophisticated test gear just a reiver and dmm.
>?
> the kit powers up and if I use the cw mode for example there is a constant carrier on just about the right frequency and the cw dit and dahs will go on nicely but the carrier doesn't drop off. Its making the PA quite hot and I'm sure (well fairly) it not something I've done. the software version is 1.2
>?
> Any clues?
>?
> Alex, g7kse
>
Constant carrier

"Alex"
 

I've got a little problem that I think isn't a result of my mistake. I get a constant carrier and can not see anything whilst in test mode. I don't have sophisticated test gear just a reiver and dmm.

the kit powers up and if I use the cw mode for example there is a constant carrier on just about the right frequency and the cw dit and dahs will go on nicely but the carrier doesn't drop off. Its making the PA quite hot and I'm sure (well fairly) it not something I've done. the software version is 1.2

Any clues?

Alex, g7kse
Re: PA keeps blowing.

Stefan Teuscher
 

Colin,

I suppose it is the same as Steinar writes, too.
Because Q1 is a N-channel MOSFET it connects drain to source if PIN 8 (= gate of Q1) is high.
So if that is the case Q1 produces a short circuit between from +5V via L1, Q1 to ground. If this lasts for a very long time (seconds are long) Q1 will die by overheating.

Now it can be, that the 74HC00 is blown or the oscillator simply does't oscillate.
So even if you have no scope you can measure the voltage at pin 11 or pin 6. It should be around 2,5 V if the oscialltor is running. Then change the 74HC00 as Steinar wrote because the last logic element is broken.
If you measure around 0 V the oscillator is not running and you can try to find out, why it doesn't run.

Perhaps it would be good to insert a fuse between power supply and UQRSS. Better change fuses than transistors. But it is likely you have to change the 74HC00 anyway - and it is a bit tricky to change it. So changing Q1 also is not much more work to do.

73s, Stefan, DL4GCS


Am 05.10.2012 20:03, schrieb G1IVG:

Stefan,

Pin 8 is at 5v with both transistors removed.

Regards
Colin G1IVG
Re: PA keeps blowing.

"g1ivg"
 

Many thanks Steinar, I'll try and get a new 74HC00 over the weekend, I've check my spare electronic components and haven't got one.

I'll keep you all informed if it works after replacing the IC.

Regards
Colin
G1IVG

--- In QRPLabs@..., Steinar Aanesland <saanes@...> wrote:




la5vna S



Den 05.10.2012 20:09, skrev Steinar Aanesland:
Colin

I had the same situation, pin 8 +5V. The IC was gone, and the transistor was dead.. After I replaced both, my kit is working again.

LA5VNA Steinar








Den 05.10.2012 20:03, skrev G1IVG:
Stefan,

Pin 8 is at 5v with both transistors removed.

Regards
Colin G1IVG

--- In QRPLabs@..., Stefan Teuscher <stefan.teuscher@> wrote:
Colin,

are you shure that the oscillator is really oscillating?
If you have a scope: Perhaps pin 8 of the 74HC00 is always low? I think,
that would kill the any transistor.
Perhaps you could check this best if you remove Q1 and then measure at
pin 8 of the HC00.
Just an idea.

73s, Stefan, DL4GCS

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--
LA5VNA Steinar
loc:jo59jq
www.opera.no
Re: PA keeps blowing.

Steinar Aanesland
 



la5vna S



Den 05.10.2012 20:09, skrev Steinar Aanesland:

Colin

I had the same situation, pin 8 +5V. The IC was gone, and the transistor was dead.. After I replaced both, my kit is working again.

LA5VNA Steinar








Den 05.10.2012 20:03, skrev G1IVG:
Stefan,

Pin 8 is at 5v with both transistors removed.

Regards
Colin G1IVG

--- In QRPLabs@..., Stefan Teuscher <stefan.teuscher@...> wrote:
Colin,

are you shure that the oscillator is really oscillating?
If you have a scope: Perhaps pin 8 of the 74HC00 is always low? I think,
that would kill the any transistor.
Perhaps you could check this best if you remove Q1 and then measure at
pin 8 of the HC00.
Just an idea.

73s, Stefan, DL4GCS

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




--
LA5VNA Steinar
loc:jo59jq
www.opera.no
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