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Re: Annular Solar Eclipse
Hi Again -- FYI, I too am very concerned about COVID.? Therefore, it will be essential for anyone who comes always to maintain at least a 2 meter physical distance from anyone else.? If more than one person brings a telescope, we should set up our scopes at least 4 meters apart.? Since we will be outside, I do not think a mask is essential.? FYI, part of my life is as a prof in the uOttawa School of Epidemiology and Public Health.? Best -- Michael .
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Re: Annular Solar Eclipse
Ingrid
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýSorry, but I haven¡¯t even had my second shot yet, let alone the 2 week wait. ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael W
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 14:30 To: [email protected] Subject: [OAFs] Annular Solar Eclipse ? Hello All -- If the sky looks like it is going to be at all clear this coming Thursday morning, I'm thinking of bringing my solar scope out to the experimental farm, where there are good site lines to the horizon, for 5:45 or 6am.? Anyone else interested?? Best -- Michael |
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Re: Possible stolen Questar?
I have captured an archive of the page in case it gets deleted like last time: Richard On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 2:57 PM PolyWogg <thepolyblog@...> wrote:
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Possible stolen Questar?
Back in January, someone posted on Astrosell that their Questar had been stolen in Ottawa. The thief had tried to sell it on Kijiji not too long after but they pulled the ad before anyone could do anything about it. Now, there's another ad up again on the site without the Questar reference, listed for $2500 vs. $7K retail. Highly suspicious, but the Astrosell link from January no longer says whose scope it was or who to let know, so I'm letting all of RASC and OAFs know. It might be legit, but it seems highly unlikely. No one with this kind of scope would ever sell it this way. If you know who lost their Questar scope, they should check out the ad to make sure it isn't theirs being sold! In case the ad is pulled, I can at least tell you the link for the profile who posted it (someone named Britt): Paul |
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Re: Annular Solar Eclipse
The arboretum at the top of? the tobogganing hill. Parking lot #1 I may join you.? Cheers, Albert On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 2:30 PM Michael W <mwolfson@...> wrote: Hello All -- If the sky looks like it is going to be at all clear this coming Thursday morning, I'm thinking of bringing my solar scope out to the experimental farm, where there are good site lines to the horizon, for 5:45 or 6am.? Anyone else interested?? Best -- Michael |
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Re: an astronomy comic
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHa ha.? But of course they are all (apparently) still there.? When the next phase transition of the universe arrives here it will be spreading at the speed of light so we won't see anything disappear until we are all totally dematerialized as the universe changes to a completely different physics.? Of course it may not happen.? Just something to worry about uselessly. Rick
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Re: etx 80
Hi Mike!
I do understand where you are coming from and I agree with you. For Darcy's situation, I simply wanted to reinforce the notion that imaging with a smart phone can be surprisingly productive....from what I understand, there are several apps that allow you to get control of the camera and do some "wild and crazy things" with it...to para-phrase one of my favourite comics. :-) Having fallen down the rabbit hole of imaging cameras....and telescopes for that matter, I often scold myself for not having spent enough time with a toy to get to really understand its capabilities and maxing out its potential. I feel that that is important because it guides you in the next purchase if nothing else. From what I have seen lately in the smartphone imaging department, I believe it would serve Darcy, and anyone else so inclined, to push their phones, even if it is with limited telescopes aperture. Darcy...I think your ETX issues are primarily due to unfamiliarity and I will ask again...do you have a manual? If not, here it is: ? ?Just hit the "downloads" button...sort of 1/3 down along the left side of the screen. ? Now that I have seen how the telescope and eyepiece are set up, I would suggest that any red dot finders be mounted "not" on top but to the side...maybe 2 o'clockish so the eyepiece does not get in the way. I hope there are no issues with the electronics. If the controller is damaged, a ton of familiarity will not overcome that.? ? I do a ton of imaging, but as Paul has described, I have difficulty spending literally hours over several nights trying to capture an image of a single target. My imaging is more for the record of where I have been....like a well heeled tourist. It also allows me to see deeper than what my telescopes alone will allow. It can reveal new targets that are worthy of eyepiece time for those nights I am looking for a challenge...say...when I have a few minutes to kill during a Messier Marathon. ? Bottom line, results generated while using basic equipment are very satisfying and provide good learning. I agree with Mike, Damian Peach has produced some stunning results...my favorite are the early double star images that he produce at F50 with his 9.25 Celestron SCT and a 5x barlow. It inspired me to start imaging double stars. The fact is, I know a couple of guys who are imaging double stars with smart phones and they are stunning images....albeit...taken with medium and large dobs.? ? I'll stop now for the fear of repeating myself!! :-) Darcy...Good Luck!! Let us know if you continue to experience issues your scope. Cheers, Chris. |
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Re: etx 80
says their price point is $500 for example, and they get recommendations that are $2K. WTF?I try not to recommend $2K to someone who has said their price point is $500. But I have said "There is nothing worth buying for that little. Use what you already have." Though usually I'm asked that question about $200 department telescopes. I tell people to use the binos they already have. Maybe this is better advice: Use what you have for as long as you're having fun. Talk to other observers and shop around before you decide to spend more. Be warned that competing with Damien Peach may result in considerable debt. :) attilla danko, , danko@..., attilladanko@... On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:14 AM PolyWogg <thepolyblog@...> wrote:
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Re: etx 80
Hi Mike... I do understand your view, and respect it, and if it was a person?who had nothing at the moment, sure, I'd probably think it was perfect advice. It's certainly a good starter setup. But my answer to the question of "why not use webcam + laptop" is probably obvious from my original post. IMO, it depends simply on where you are on the observation/imaging spectrum and what you already have. I regret that when I started, nobody explained to me that if I was interested in AP, maybe I didn't have to buy a webcam and adapters for my DSLR and go down a rabbithole that was more about long exposure photography than it is about astronomy. I wish someone had pushed back a bit, as I do, to say "Wait a minute...when you say AP, how much AP do you mean? 50/50, 80/20, 20/80?" Because those are very different AP points to me. If they know for sure they are at least 50% AP, and they're willing to spend the time letting their scope run for hours on its own, to get the data, and then time processing? Sure. Go for the webcam. And so long as they understand that it is another piece of equipment for the webcam, another set of cables, another piece for the laptop, power for the laptop, screen filter for the laptop (software or physical) to save your view, likely a table, maybe a chair. And that they are unlikely to be doing any visual while it's imaging. I also prefer the KISS principle for buying equipment and trying new things. I am often stressed when someone comes into a?group, asks a Q, and in a larger scenario, says their price point is $500 for example, and they get recommendations that are $2K. WTF? Why? It's way too easy to spend other people's money when they ask for advice. For me, the guy has a scope, an adapter and a phone. He won't get APOD shots, but he'll get SOMETHING that will hold his interest before he starts to complicate his life. And enough for him to figure out if he likes it enough to go deeper. If he does, I think webcam you shared was a great choice. Not too expensive, not one of the high end liquid cooled, blah blah blah :) I confess I also fear "experience rebound" for the people trying it for the first time. I did the webcam and DSLR thing, and that really zooms up the learning curve, imo. So much so that when I didn't get amazing stuff after a few tries, I was like, "I'm stupid, I don't get it". Because I was trying to learn astronomy, my new scope, imaging, and the laptop software all at the same time. And I set it aside thinking it would "never work for me". It really spoiled some of my early experience with having a scope. I also know that is NOT an isolated experience...there are lots of people on CN who are like me, maybe 20% imaging and primarily visual who got identical advice, with no larger context, and it was the wrong advice *for us* because nobody asked us what we liked/wanted. I wish there was a universal rule, like you can't buy AP equipment until you've had a minimum 6m cooling off period after buying a scope hehehe To encourage "responsible astronomy equipment ownership"? :) Shh, don't tell anyone, but I also think smartphone stuff is a great gateway drug. If they like and enjoy it, they'll want to upgrade other elements and have a better idea of what they want/need. As you say, it can be frustrating, but sometimes the reward has a good bounce rather than a bad rebound? Paul On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 9:06 AM Mike Wirths <mikewirths1@...> wrote:
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Re: etx 80
Paul and Chris, I'm not saying you should not try imaging with a smartphone (I have done it too for the moon, afocally while waiting for it to get darker) and kudos to those that get results doing so. But the real question is why would you want to if there are cheap affordable alternatives that do a much better job and are easier to use?? When I started imaging the moon, sun, and planets 25 years ago all we had was the venerable Toucam webcam, but it started a lucky imaging revolution even with its so so frame- rate. I wish I had access to the fantastic planetary cams we have available now and the wonderful easy to use capture and stacking software that Torsten Edelman and Emil Kraikamp developed for use (free) for all of us amateurs!! Lets face it our weather here in eastern Ont is not the best for astronomy, why not make the best of the nights we do have with the right tools? Darcy already said he does have a laptop, there you have a nice big screen where you can focus real time with Firecapture and have lots of nice uncompressed video streams to play with when the clouds roll back in later! Darcy, look up Damian Peach on youtube, he has all kinds of great tutorials and tips -- he is the master! cheers Mike On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:58 AM Chris T via <thuemen_cm=[email protected]> wrote: Good Morning Everyone! |
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Re: etx 80
Wow so much good stuff to think about. Still working through it!!! Thanks for all who've chimed in so far! On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 12:49 PM Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
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Re: etx 80
Good Morning Everyone!
It has been a while since I have weighed in on a discussion here. Darcy...a very interesting topic that raises some interesting questions/discussion. On the issue of using smartphones to image, I am going to get behind Paul on this one and say...in patient hands and with an inquisitive mind, a smartphone can generate some very good images. The caveat is...it will be limited by the size of the optics, primarily. Your ETX 80 setup has small optics so it will be limited to sun, moon, bright planets, bright double stars and some of the brighter Messier objects such as the Andromeda Galaxy (M31), the Orion Nebula (M42) and the Hercules Globular Cluster (M13). There are likely others, you will simple have to experiment. I am not sure what you are referring to when you say chromatic aberration, but the ETX has fairly good optics, albeit small, that should not generate a lot chromatic aberration. There is a possibility that your ETX has had an accident and the optics have been misaligned, or it may be an issue of the smartphone camera not being in proper alignment. One thing I would suggest is that you start with the longest focal length eyepiece that you can find. This will generate the wider field, thereby gathering more light and giving you brighter but smaller images....not and issue for sun and moon...but for everything else. If you can find someone with a 1.25" focal reducer, that should generate an even wider field. Borrow as much as you can to start, just in case the bits don't generate the results you want.? ? On the issue of a finder scope, an ETX can be easily fitted out with a red dot finder. I don't have an ETX in front of me so I am not aware of the mounting holes that may be available. I would suggest that you find a plastic version that is fairly light and can be mounted with some 2-sided tape. The only caution, some finders may have a limited range of adjustment so you will need to find a temporary way to attach the finder to see if it provides enough range for your setup. The 2-sided tape can work but you will need to be prepared to remove it if you need to add a slight shim to help the adjustment. ? Tim...on the issue of power supply, if you are a tinkerer, this thread from Cloudy Nights may provide your solution: Darcy...do you have an owners manual for your scope? It would be very useful. According to my Sky Safari app, the older Meade ETX models can be controlled with it. I have a Meade LX200 and Sky Safari works flawlessly with it. I use Sky Safari with all my mounts...a joy to use. One note....I do all my Messier Marathons with a manual setup and a red dot finder. For my LX200 connection with Sky Safari, I use a SkyWire instead of the Wifi dongle.? ? One final note Darcy, you will be limited to short exposure, stacked images, given the Alt-Az nature of the ETX drive. Adding a field rotator is not a possibility for this scope I believe. ? With all astro-photography, there is a learning curve that can be overcome with patience and a little guidance. I wish you luck and don't forget to post your images and don't ever apologize for there quality!! :-) Cheers, Chris. |
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Re: etx 80
Hi Darcy, Sooo, I'm going to go in a different direction than previous commenters, and well, I'm going to be blunt. Anyone who tells you that smartphone stuff isn't worth your time is likely engaging in the same type of elitism that exists in various parts of astronomy that will tell you: a. If you use a go-to scope instead of a Dob, and are not manually star-hopping, you're not a "real astronomer"; b. If you don't get an equatorial mount, AP isn't worth it; c.?
If you use anything?less than $5K worth of astronomy gear, you're not a "real astrophotographer";
d. If you don't learn to stack, stretch, and use wavelets, you're not really doing AP. To be blunt, I don't agree with?hardly any of those opinions as they leave out about?10 questions and variables that may or may not apply to you. Not everyone has the same goals, and lots of successful APers are more than happy with the results they get. If you doubt my veracity, check out this guy's site, Andrew Symes from Stittsville. He also posts his more recent stuff on Twitter, but if you go to the site, you'll see some amazing stuff he's done of planets. All of it with a smartphone and a goto scope. He isn't the biggest, or the best, but the reason I am sending you to his site is because he did it over 5 years ago with an iPhone 6SE. Not the latest and greatest phones with larger sensors, better software, etc. The newer stuff? Even better. If you want to see more recent stuff, there is a thread on CloudyNights called Smartphone Astronomy and another on FB called the same. If you want to get started somewhere, a webcam might be a good option, but if you already have a phone and an adapter, why not start with the gear you have and see if you enjoy it? I get those who want that other gear, but almost all of them are farther along in a spectrum where you may or may not end up. For context, in my experience, the various users out there are on a spectrum between observing and imaging: A. 100% observing, 0% imaging B. 80% observing, 20% imaging C. 50% observing, 50% imaging D. 20% observing, 80% imaging E. 0% observing, 100% imaging The reason I am reacting is in part because I am at stage B on that scale, and ever since I've started, I've listened to people who immediately hear "AP" and think there is only one option which is the best option for E with webcams, cooled, GEMs, etc and have actively pushed me with the same advice you already got. Completely and utterly wrong for me, as that isn't the reality for a lot of people, and there are huge learning curves with AP that a lot of people jumping to follow that advice find themselves hopelessly lost, not enjoying the hobby and giving up. Because they listened to someone who was C, D or E who told them there was only one way to do this. I've attached smartphone, point and shoot, DSLR and webcam to my scope, as well as doing stuff sans scope. I will always be A or B on that spectrum because I have very little interest in really long exposures of the scope doing its thing on its own, and then long periods of time manipulating the data in software. My kick is the observing, all I really want are decent souvenir shots. Which isn't to say your 80mm is the best option, but it's the option you have, and I would play with it before deciding to invest in extra gear. If you do want to use your smartphone, you should know three things. 1. Stability is an issue. Every ounce of weight you add will increase that instability. If you attach a small bag of sand to hang directly under it, it will lower its centre of gravity which may help. Using a remote BT shutter or a timer will also help for the actual imaging process. The scope and mount you have isn't the best designed for big AP, but it doesn't mean you can't do SOMETHING. 2. You won't be able to do long exposures. With the mount you have, 10s is probably the max useful time for most objects (if using an iPhone) or perhaps 5s with Android phones. That isn't a slam against the Android phones, it's that the Android platform introduces a much wider set of parameters of issues for whichever phone or software you use, some allowing you longer times, some not. But almost all will produce 5s shots without too much distortion. For the iPhone, the recommended software is NightCap for 90% of users and nothing else really comes close. Note that the NC software actually only takes 1s exposures BUT if you set it for say 10s, it will take 10 x 1s and stack them on the phone. So it looks like a 10s exposure. Many Android phones will do the same. If you want to do planets, almost everyone on smartphones is doing video and then processing it through PIPP and Autostakkert. Anything else is challenging to produce anything decent. 3. Your adapter is going to make or break your experience. You may have already figured that out with what you have. However, you should know that there is a lot of patience required in figuring out your workflow. But it pales, in my view, in comparison with the huge learning curve that goes with autoguiding, web cams, laptops, and everything you need to do to pull the images from a webcam setup too. For a smartphone adapter, you essentially have four components: a) How it attaches the adapter to the eyepiece. In almost all cases, you will want to attach it BEFORE you put it in the scope. Anything else just messes you up. Many people actually invert the adapter (i.e. placing the phone in it and then putting the phone down on its face) so that you insert the EP into the adapter and line it up over the camera lens rather than trying to align the camera lens over the EP. You can even look down through the EP from the wrong end and see how it is aligned over the EP. Anything else is beyond frustrating. Some adapters use "pincers", some use "chucks" (like a drill chuck), others use set screws to hold the EP. Personally, I find the "chucks" the best, but they all work generally better on simple plossls and not very well on other types of EPs (fat, wide, 2", etc.) as they like smooth even "tops" to grab on to. b) I started with the EP, but as indicated, most people start with attaching the phone. Some have three "edges/plates" which are left / right / bottom edging for the phone and often springs to hold it tight against the edge of the phone. Many will not work on the larger phones if the phone is in a phone case. Once in the adapter / attached to the platform, it generally is moved up and down in the Y axis by moving the platform. If you've already centred the EP, you don't have to move it at all. c) Adjusting the x axis is as easy as the Y axis, once it is in the plate. However I flag it separately as sometimes the x-axis is controlled by a completely different type of adjustment than the y. While the Y might have a little knurled?lever to allow easy movement, some of the X ones are more like set screws. Some of the early and cheap adapters, including for point and shoot cameras, have a little screw pivot that locks x and y at the same time and are INCREDIBLY frustrating if you are not nimble of finger. d) Last but not least, the z axis. Very few of the adapters on the market will let you easily adjust the height of the phone above the EP. Remembering that you are doing afocal as compared with using a webcam, you do have to make sure you're putting the lens at the right height above the EP to be able to be in focus. As noted above, this is MUCH easier with a plossl than other types of EPs. However, the "Cadillac" of adapters, the Celestron NexYZ has a knurled knob for adjusting the X axis independent of the Y (and independent of how it attaches to the phone platform), AND it adds a separate knob for the Z axis (height) too. It was a game changer but also 4x the average price of other adapters. It is also heavier, and that adds up if you have a big phone to go with it. All of it adds weight to where your EP goes, and can cause it to "tip", almost like you need a counterbalance as on an EQ mount. There are ways to adjust for that, so some people love it. Some people are using cheap adapters and doing wonderful things, some are using expensive ones and struggling. Most of it comes down to workflow over gear. There are about 7 different types of smartphone adapters out there, and I'm hoping to review them all this year when I get my observatory built soon. Fingers crossed. If you do want to start with the moon, one of the easiest objects, I recommend you adjust your settings to infinity for distance (almost all AP will be), your ISO as low as it can go (probably around 24), your aperture will be set by the phone and DO NOT use zoom, use a low power plossl to give you lots of space around the image, and reduce your time to about 1/200th of a second. You should be able to snap something with your current setup. Yeah, you can go longer and stack, but any longer for an exposure right now is likely to just blow it out to almost gleaming white. You can go up to about 50 for ISO when it is less than a 1/4 moon, but maybe not even then. The more power you use, the closer you'll get, but it is easier to "nail the workflow" at lower power. Zooming on the phone is an extra step that reduces pixels, doesn't help much, and at a certain point, you'll lose the image as the camera will switch to another lens. I am far from an expert in all of this for results. But two years ago I did a bunch of stuff with a lousy workflow and I still liked the results. Here is a photo album of a bunch of globular clusters with my iPhone XS Max and Celestron's NexYZ adapter. They are way less impressive than the stuff people share here or APOD or the RASC AP group, nor am I trying to compete with those. But for an "addon" to the gear I already have, I'm pretty happy with it. For an example of a "bad" one, fast forward to the M13 cluster shot, where you'll see I didn't have my camera settings right because the phone was trying to fire its infrared and it was reflecting off the lens. Meanwhile, there's a guy on Amateur Astronomy on FB, named Loren Ball, who has a simple adapter and his iPhone, doing 10s shots with a solid workflow, little editing, and capturing all the asteroids he can find. Not bad for a "smartphone". Hope that helps. And note that I don't disagree with the benefits of getting an EQ mount, or a webcam, or all of that stuff. Just be sure that's the way you want to go in the long run before plunking down extra money and finding out it may not be what you thought it was.? Good luck, Paul |
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Re: etx 80
Hello Darcy,? I, too, have an ETX80. I've had mediocre success with it. It is the backpack model, so only runs on AA batteries. I would greatly appreciate a 120V connection for it because I have kids and I'm sick of batteries. :)? My issues with it are that it has no finder scope, so you need a low power eyepiece for any starhopping (which can be done manually thankfully), and the focus knob is terrible. The best use I've found for it is as a solar scope, with a good Baader filter. The built-in sun-finder on the filter negates the lack of a finder scope (not that you'd want that much for solar anyway). I haven't tried any astrophotography with it of note... Tim On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 12:50 PM Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
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Re: etx 80
Yes it just goes in the 1 1/4 eyepiece holder, I don't think it can be done via wifi or bluetooth the data stream is quite large! I ordered mine right from Sam in China but OPT has them in stock too, as do many other astro shops in N America ?They are what many use for lunar/solar/ planetary these days. Some are even used for deep sky. I use a ASI 174MM for my lunar shots as well as solar Ha --if you need closer more high res images just add a small 2X's barlow to the setup. A screw in R or near Ir filter tends to give sharper results if the seeing is not so good. Mike On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 2:57 PM Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
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Re: etx 80
Has anybody ordered from that site? Does it come quickly? Not that there's a rush but just curious?so I know if it's worth ordering now. On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 2:17 PM Mike Wirths <mikewirths1@...> wrote:
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Re: etx 80
Oh wow, so I just take the eyepiece out and then slap that in? That sounds very much better than what I'm doing!!! So that's usb 3. I guess I can just run a cord to a computer but do people get those hooked up to bluetooth or wifi to get rid of the extra wiring? Or is that getting more messy? I can picture just sitting beside the telescope with my laptop taking grabs... that sounds like such an improvement. Are the eyepiece holes pretty standard so this'd work with my etx80 and likely with a future purchase? On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 2:17 PM Mike Wirths <mikewirths1@...> wrote:
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Chris T
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