On Nov 7, 2023, at 19:48, W2HX <w2hx@...> wrote:

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Hello, I am a new member and a newbie to recording.

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I am looking to create a simple, transportable set up to record live rock/jam band concerts from the audience without access to the soundboard. I purchased a Tascam Portacapture X8 and I have been learning the ins and outs. My first attempt for microphones were these low-cost pencil mics from amazon: ? I used them and found that the sound was pretty awful, even for a novice. They were very thin sounding and lacked bass.

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I am looking to this group for a recommendation on a pair of mics that would be more suitable for this purpose (loud concerts recorded from the audience). I think they should be directional, but I am not wedded to pencil or booms, unless the folks here think those are the right solutions. My budget is about $200 per mic but happy to spend less if I could or could stretch a bit if necessary.

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I did look at the Sennheiser MKE 440 as the sound seemed really good. What I don’t love about it is that it needs its own batteries. I would prefer something that could use the phantom power of the Tascam (or no power if dynamic) or USB powered, but I am not looking for the audio to pass over USB, I think XLR would be the way to go. I also don’t love the idea of the built in cable as others have noted.

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Can anyone recommend a pair of mics that sound good, can use either no power or power from the Tascam or a USB-C power connector and XLR if possible. The Tascam X8 does have a 1/8” (3.5mm) line-in jack but not sure how well that will work.

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Ok, enough from me. Thank in advance for your thoughts.

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73 Eugene W2HX

Youtube Channel:?

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Hi

Ive noticed a TASCAM set of 4 drum mics, 2 dynamic and 2 capacitor (48V)?

for ?160?

thought they might work well with your recorder you'll need a stereo bar but the kit comes with 2 mic clips

is your recorder able to record 4 channels at once? have you tried the onboard mics?

you'll also need 2 or 4 xlr leads

if you dont like the sound of the dynamics you could?

allways sell them on

but test them out?at a very loud concert first

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All the best

Dow Fereday

LTS Studios UK

Hello, I am a new member and a newbie to recording.



I am looking to create a simple, transportable set up to record live rock/jam band concerts from the audience without access to the soundboard. I purchased a Tascam Portacapture X8 and I have been learning the ins and outs. My first attempt for microphones were these low-cost pencil mics from amazon: I used them and found that the sound was pretty awful, even for a novice. They were very thin sounding and lacked bass.



I am looking to this group for a recommendation on a pair of mics that would be more suitable for this purpose (loud concerts recorded from the audience). I think they should be directional, but I am not wedded to pencil or booms, unless the folks here think those are the right solutions. My budget is about $200 per mic but happy to spend less if I could or could stretch a bit if necessary.



I did look at the Sennheiser MKE 440 as the sound seemed really good. What I don’t love about it is that it needs its own batteries. I would prefer something that could use the phantom power of the Tascam (or no power if dynamic) or USB powered, but I am not looking for the audio to pass over USB, I think XLR would be the way to go. I also don’t love the idea of the built in cable as others have noted.



Can anyone recommend a pair of mics that sound good, can use either no power or power from the Tascam or a USB-C power connector and XLR if possible. The Tascam X8 does have a 1/8” (3.5mm) line-in jack but not sure how well that will work.



Ok, enough from me. Thank in advance for your thoughts.



73 Eugene W2HX

Youtube Channel:

?

On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 06:01 PM, Jules Ryckebusch wrote:

If you want to build something that will

Work and sounds good try these:?

This is a good setup.

My $0.02 is that these recorders often have much better performance on their XLR inputs than the 3.5mm PIP jack.? You can build the SimpleP48 circuit into the male XLR plug to take full advantage of this.

An alternative is a Binaural recording setup.? Our own Len Moskowitz sells

which is a very reasonable high quality product.? You clip the mikes to your hat or other suitable headgear.? These are omnis so aren't as susceptible to wind noise.

On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 06:01 PM, Jules Ryckebusch wrote:

If you want to build something that will
Work and sounds good try these:

This is a good setup.
My $0.02 is that these recorders often have much better performance on their XLR inputs than the 3.5mm PIP jack.? You can build the *SimpleP48* circuit into the male XLR plug to take full advantage of this.
An alternative is a *Binaural* recording setup.? Our own Len Moskowitz sells

which is a very reasonable high quality product.? You clip the mikes to your hat or other suitable headgear.? These are omnis so aren't as susceptible to wind noise.

David, do you have any recommendations for a ribbon mic build? I have done 1 ribbon kit and 1 from scratch save for the body.

Best Regards,
Dude

On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 10:48 AM David Pinnegar <antespam@...> wrote:

I use a Sanyo Xacti ICR-XPS01M but these are as rare as hens' teeth
and have also used a Tascam DR40 both to great effect.

Separate mics need mic stands and setting up, which isn't particularly
audience recording friendly.

AKG D202s are great as are the D200s. The D224s aren't as robust.


For pencil mics Takstar CM60 are excellent but need phantom power.

I've really moved to ribbons but possibly too fragile for your application.

Best wishes

David P

On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 2:48?AM W2HX <w2hx@...> wrote:

Hello, I am a new member and a newbie to recording.



I am looking to create a simple, transportable set up to record live rock/jam band concerts from the audience without access to the soundboard. I purchased a Tascam Portacapture X8 and I have been learning the ins and outs. My first attempt for microphones were these low-cost pencil mics from amazon: I used them and found that the sound was pretty awful, even for a novice. They were very thin sounding and lacked bass.



I am looking to this group for a recommendation on a pair of mics that would be more suitable for this purpose (loud concerts recorded from the audience). I think they should be directional, but I am not wedded to pencil or booms, unless the folks here think those are the right solutions. My budget is about $200 per mic but happy to spend less if I could or could stretch a bit if necessary.



I did look at the Sennheiser MKE 440 as the sound seemed really good. What I don’t love about it is that it needs its own batteries. I would prefer something that could use the phantom power of the Tascam (or no power if dynamic) or USB powered, but I am not looking for the audio to pass over USB, I think XLR would be the way to go. I also don’t love the idea of the built in cable as others have noted.



Can anyone recommend a pair of mics that sound good, can use either no power or power from the Tascam or a USB-C power connector and XLR if possible. The Tascam X8 does have a 1/8” (3.5mm) line-in jack but not sure how well that will work.



Ok, enough from me. Thank in advance for your thoughts.



73 Eugene W2HX

Youtube Channel:

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David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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+44 1342 850594

On 12 Nov 2023, at 21:40, ilya dontsov <ilya.dontsov@...> wrote:

That’s all correct except one thing.?

Spaced omnis do make great recordings and nice stereo. You just don’t put them a meter apart as is often suggested. Instead, use a narrower setup with 30-40cm between the capsules.?

Actually, when choosing a stereo system, one has to consider the width of the source. For wide sources a spaced pair is a better choice because of its extended recording angle (up to 180 degrees).?

I have no experience with those particular microphones. But there is a general problem with the low-frequency response of cardioid microphones. Theytend to have a free-field response that begins to roll off below about 150 Hz. Proximity effect gives a compensatory LF boost. As an example, I have several Audio Technica AT3031s. AT specs them as having a response that extends down to 30 Hz. But there is a footnote stating that the measurement is at 12 inches. At that distance the proximity effect begins below 174 Hz. It's actually more complicated than that. But the net result is that the microphone is quite flat down to low frequencies when it is placed 12 inches from the source but it is down many dB at low frequencies when it is 20 feet from the source, as it would be when used in a concert recording.
So how to get the low frequency response that you desire? The simplest answer is to use an omnidirectional microphone. The Audio Technica omnidirectional microphone equivalent is the AT3032 and it has no attenuation at 30 Hz. Unfortunately spaced omni microphones do not give great stereo recordings.
An alternative method would be to use equalization in the form of a shelf filter to compensate for the LF loss in the microphone. I can't give a very good recommendation for how much boost to use.

I have no experience with those particular microphones. But there is a general problem with the low-frequency response of cardioid microphones. Theytend to have a free-field response that begins to roll off below about 150 Hz. Proximity effect gives a compensatory LF boost. As an example, I have several Audio Technica AT3031s. AT specs them as having a response that extends down to 30 Hz. But there is a footnote stating that the measurement is at 12 inches. At that distance the proximity effect begins below 174 Hz. It's actually more complicated than that. But the net result is that the microphone is quite flat down to low frequencies when it is placed 12 inches from the source but it is down many dB at low frequencies when it is 20 feet from the source, as it would be when used in a concert recording.
So how to get the low frequency response that you desire? The simplest answer is to use an omnidirectional microphone. The Audio Technica omnidirectional microphone equivalent is the AT3032 and it has no attenuation at 30 Hz. Unfortunately spaced omni microphones do not give great stereo recordings.
An alternative method would be to use equalization in the form of a shelf filter to compensate for the LF loss in the microphone. I can't give a very good recommendation for how much boost to use.

?

Wow. Yet another great video from Jules. And a really good mic.

I made this video on STAAG technique about 5 years ago. STAAG has some similarities to the dual Endora in that it is comprised of two coincident arrays separated by 17cm. It could be described as dual ORTF or dual XY.



Cheers,

Jonathan Duckett