Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
Reducing voltage decreases spl capability more rapidly than
decreasing gain.
Le 09/12/2023 ¨¤ 15:50, Torciv a ¨¦crit?:
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Hi Jules,
Thank you, my EM200 now works with PiP. And it sounds amazing,
handling high SPL just as I wish.
And I wonder if it is higher working voltage results higher
sensitivity, so I can do the opposite way, using lower PiP or XLR
votlage to make my mics working under higer sound pressure?
Cheers,
Tovi
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Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
Hi Jules, Thank you, my EM200 now works with PiP. And it sounds amazing, handling high SPL just as I wish. And I wonder if it is higher working voltage results higher sensitivity, so I can do the opposite way, using lower PiP or XLR votlage to make my mics working under higer sound pressure? Cheers, Tovi 
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Re: Transformer sound signatures
I'm sorry to say, despite Paul's reputation, what he says doesn't
make much sense.
I would say the answer is at the measure of the question. The
sonic difference between a Neve and an API is the result of many
factors, that would be too complicated and intricated for a 5
minute podcast.
The API consoles use a transformer with no DC in it, which results
in predominant 3rd harmonic, when Neve, in their vintage products,
use a class-A stage? (idle current is half the peak current) that
places the magnetic core in a pre-magnetized condition, which in
turns results in dominant 2nd harmonic.
In addition, the presence of DC imposes the use of a gapped core,
which is much more linear than a non-gapped.
Le 05/12/2023 ¨¤ 20:50, Henry Spragens
via groups.io a ¨¦crit?:
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A brief description of old consoles¡¯
transformer sound signatures and why dirt and distortion are
sought after:
?
The two classes of transformer
distortion also apply to mic circuits. Driving the transformer
from a high impedance plate (C-12 & 251) vs a low
impedance cathode (APEX 460), for instance. However I don¡¯t
find audible 3rd harmonic in the optimized 460 CCDA mic. It¡¯s
all 2nd. That¡¯s the thing about folklore, simulation, and
theory - real circuits don¡¯t always behave as predicted.?
?
Personally, back in them good ol¡¯
analog daze when everything was ¡°whipped cream¡±, I sought out
stuff that sounded like live music. I still do. Whipped cream
is good occasionally on a confection, but not on my meat and
potatoes, please.
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Re: Transformer sound signatures
this Chris Preston guy seems to be extremely knowledgeable regarding all things transformers.
on this page of his site look for the document
Why do Audio Transformers Sound Different From Model to Model
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Le 2023-12-05 14:50, Henry Spragens via groups.io a ¨¦crit?: A brief description of old consoles¡¯ transformer sound signatures and why dirt and distortion are sought after:
The two classes of transformer distortion also apply to mic circuits. Driving the transformer from a high impedance plate (C-12 & 251) vs a low impedance cathode (APEX 460), for instance. However I don¡¯t find audible 3rd harmonic in the optimized 460 CCDA mic. It¡¯s all 2nd. That¡¯s the thing about folklore, simulation, and theory - real circuits don¡¯t always behave as predicted.
Personally, back in them good ol¡¯ analog daze when everything was ¡°whipped cream¡±, I sought out stuff that sounded like live music. I still do. Whipped cream is good occasionally on a confection, but not on my meat and potatoes, please.
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Transformer sound signatures
A brief description of old consoles¡¯ transformer sound signatures and why dirt and distortion are sought after:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDHfV-AR8JY
?
The two classes of transformer distortion also apply to mic circuits. Driving the transformer from a high impedance plate (C-12 & 251) vs a low impedance cathode (APEX 460), for instance. However I don¡¯t find audible 3rd harmonic in the optimized 460 CCDA mic. It¡¯s all 2nd. That¡¯s the thing about folklore, simulation, and theory - real circuits don¡¯t always behave as predicted.?
?
Personally, back in them good ol¡¯ analog daze when everything was ¡°whipped cream¡±, I sought out stuff that sounded like live music. I still do. Whipped cream is good occasionally on a confection, but not on my meat and potatoes, please.
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Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
Thanks for reply, I will try it soon.
My previous post is actually a study after X8¡¯s built-in mics, interestingly, they have R and C.
But since it¡¯s not working, I should remind anyone saw it, don¡¯t try to build it as mine failed.
How about XLR version? I will love to see my last two capsules became more general usable mics on different recoders.
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Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
That R and C are already in the recorder. Connect S&G together and to the sleeve and D to the tip. ?That will work for PIP? Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch?
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On Dec 4, 2023, at 18:04, Torciv <lljh80305@...> wrote:
? This was my build for Tascam X8¡¯s PiP input, not working though.
Tovi Jules Ryckebusch <ryckebusch@...> ì¶ 2023Äê12ÔÂ4ÈÕ 11:52 Œ‘µÀ£º
? I will draw it up tomorrow. How did you do the pip wiring? On Dec 3, 2023, at 19:20, Torciv <lljh80305@...> wrote:
?Hi Jules,
Could you share the schmatic of your EM200 build?
I bought 3 EM200, my first build with PiP isn't working, I might kill the capsule.
A stable EM200 + P48 could be a salvation to my project.
Thank you!
Tovi
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Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
This was my build for Tascam X8¡¯s PiP input, not working though.
Tovi
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Jules Ryckebusch <ryckebusch@...> ì¶ 2023Äê12ÔÂ4ÈÕ 11:52 Œ‘µÀ£º
? I will draw it up tomorrow. How did you do the pip wiring? On Dec 3, 2023, at 19:20, Torciv <lljh80305@...> wrote:
?Hi Jules,
Could you share the schmatic of your EM200 build?
I bought 3 EM200, my first build with PiP isn't working, I might kill the capsule.
A stable EM200 + P48 could be a salvation to my project.
Thank you!
Tovi
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Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
Hello Arjay, I'm very sorry but I have only just seen your and others members replies to this thread. Yes, of course you are quite correct, my description of the way to wire the capsule was wrong, I misread the instructables, thank you for the correction!
In the end I didn't get to use the EM200 capsules, while waiting for them to arrive I tried to fit larger tsb2590 capsules into what I was making, and to my surprise I managed it. The em200's will have to wait for another project.
Best regards, Ross
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Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
I will draw it up tomorrow. How did you do the pip wiring?
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On Dec 3, 2023, at 19:20, Torciv <lljh80305@...> wrote:
?Hi Jules,
Could you share the schmatic of your EM200 build?
I bought 3 EM200, my first build with PiP isn't working, I might kill the capsule.
A stable EM200 + P48 could be a salvation to my project.
Thank you!
Tovi
|
Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
Hi Jules,
Could you share the schmatic of your EM200 build?
I bought 3 EM200, my first build with PiP isn't working, I might kill the capsule.
A stable EM200 + P48 could be a salvation to my project.
Thank you!
Tovi
|
Hi Richard,
The original doc, together with other comments and notes in this group, were sufficient for me to successfully make a couple pairs of simpleP48 mics that work very well. Nonetheless, thanks for interrupting your beach routine to update it. I like the expanded design discussion and the improved drawing. Looking forward to reading it more carefully.
Only small suggestion - maybe changing any reference to Primo EM172 to EM272? The 172s have been discontinued for a while.
Cheers.
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Your comments are very valuable, thank you very much. As far as I remember, in 2017 I discovered Tom Benedict articles, and realized a simple schematic for a pair of EM172 capsules according to "DIY Microphone: EM172 Capsule and XLR Plug". This solution worked very well for me in recording the voices of bats and birds. Then I made a slightly modified version of Zenerless Alice + Sziklai.? Since I always used only one pair of EM172, I did not pay attention to phase relationships.
Me too found the unpleasant passage of time, I have difficulties with my eyes, body,? and in understanding simple things. Professor Vetulani, Polish psychopharmacologist, neurobiologist, biochemist, professor of natural sciences, when the students wished him good health on the occasion of his 80th birthday, said this:?
"Do not wish me health, but good luck, because the sailors of the Kursk submarine were all in good health, but they were not lucky..."
So let me wish you satisfaction of your work, and ... a lot of good luck!
Kind Regards, Andrzej
On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 at 21:21, Richard Lee < ricardo@...> wrote:
the only difference is that connections to XLR pins 2 and 3 are swapped. It makes the signal phase is reversed. Does it make difference in sound quality? I guess it has no influence.
(I ignore C1 capacity?.)
Phase matters if you are using other mikes in the same setup.? My original drawing with pins numbered wrongly, showing the wrong side etc. was less than helpful.? I try, even in my old age, to make sure my documents actually HELP people to do stuff right.
The correct choice of C1 will help with the cases of 'blocking' reported by some when the mike is overloaded.?
At the risk of pontificating from the wrong orifice (yet again), Guru Henry's 1u in his , will be -1dB @ 20Hz.? This is appropriate for a Music / Recording mike but a measurement mike should be better than 0.2dB @ 20Hz so my antique B&K 2307 chart recorder won't pick it up.
I should also say more about Cardioids ... and also about "3 wire" capsules (now available from Primo, Transound & PUI) and SimpleP48RCA
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the only difference is that connections to XLR pins 2 and 3 are swapped. It makes the signal phase is reversed. Does it make difference in sound quality? I guess it has no influence.
(I ignore C1 capacity?.)
Phase matters if you are using other mikes in the same setup.? My original drawing with pins numbered wrongly, showing the wrong side etc. was less than helpful.? I try, even in my old age, to make sure my documents actually HELP people to do stuff right. The correct choice of C1 will help with the cases of 'blocking' reported by some when the mike is overloaded.? At the risk of pontificating from the wrong orifice (yet again), Guru Henry's 1u in his , will be -1dB @ 20Hz.? This is appropriate for a Music / Recording mike but a measurement mike should be better than 0.2dB @ 20Hz so my antique B&K 2307 chart recorder won't pick it up.
I should also say more about Cardioids ... and also about "3 wire" capsules (now available from Primo, Transound & PUI) and SimpleP48RCA
|
Thank you very much for the link. Maybe I am wrong, but in my opinion the only difference is that connections to XLR pins 2 and 3 are swapped. It makes the signal phase is reversed. Does it make difference in sound quality? I guess it has no influence. (I ignore C1 capacity?.)
On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 at 16:52, Goran Finnberg via <mastering= [email protected]> wrote: Andrzej Sochon:
>Is revised version of SimpleP48 ready? I would be very grateful for the link.
------------
Best regards,
Goran Finnberg
The Mastering Room AB
Goteborg
Sweden
E-mail: mastering@...
Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to
make them all yourself.??? -?? John Luther
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") Pyret, Ranglet, Aron, VovVov, Nero & Smurfen:RIP
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Andrzej Sochon:
>Is revised version of SimpleP48 ready? I would be very grateful for the link.
/g/MicBuilders/files/Ricardo/SimpleP48 ------------ Best regards, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself.??? -?? John Luther (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") Pyret, Ranglet, Aron, VovVov, Nero & Smurfen:RIP
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Is revised version of SimpleP48 ready? I would be very grateful for the link.
Kind Regards, Andrzej Sochon
On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 at 14:34, Jules Ryckebusch < ryckebusch@...> wrote: Thanks Richard. Every time I build one and explain to someone?that there are two components, they default to "must be something cheesy?or wrong" Nope just really simple?and elegant way to do things.?
Jules
Awesome, thanks for the update, and thanks for keeping the
SimpleP48 dream alive. :-)
On 11/27/23 21:51, Richard Lee wrote:
After more than a decade, I've finally made more SimpleP48
mikes for my own use ... but found the passage of time hasn't
been kind to my eyes.
I found several errors and misleading info in my June 2020
document.? In particular, the first diagram is wrong? and likely
to cause errors for newbie & guru alike.? To my horror, I had
intimated that gurus Henry Spragen & Rick Wilkinson wired
their versions wrongly. :o? Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
I'm really sinking deep into my beach bum existence but these sins
prompted me to revise, correct & expand the document in my
Files.? Please let me know if you find anymore errors or disagree
with what I've written.
I'm indebted to various people who have sent me Word documents
converted from the PDF in my Files as I've lost all my original
work this Millenium in a number of HD crashes.
I can heartily recommend capsules which have wires already
soldered to them to avoid damage from inept & blind beach bums
waving soldering irons.
On the bright side, the new capsules eg the PUIs available from
Mouser really show what is possible to rival $$$ commercial
microphone offerings.
--
Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
|
Thanks Richard. Every time I build one and explain to someone?that there are two components, they default to "must be something cheesy?or wrong" Nope just really simple?and elegant way to do things.?
Jules
Awesome, thanks for the update, and thanks for keeping the
SimpleP48 dream alive. :-)
On 11/27/23 21:51, Richard Lee wrote:
After more than a decade, I've finally made more SimpleP48
mikes for my own use ... but found the passage of time hasn't
been kind to my eyes.
I found several errors and misleading info in my June 2020
document.? In particular, the first diagram is wrong? and likely
to cause errors for newbie & guru alike.? To my horror, I had
intimated that gurus Henry Spragen & Rick Wilkinson wired
their versions wrongly. :o? Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
I'm really sinking deep into my beach bum existence but these sins
prompted me to revise, correct & expand the document in my
Files.? Please let me know if you find anymore errors or disagree
with what I've written.
I'm indebted to various people who have sent me Word documents
converted from the PDF in my Files as I've lost all my original
work this Millenium in a number of HD crashes.
I can heartily recommend capsules which have wires already
soldered to them to avoid damage from inept & blind beach bums
waving soldering irons.
On the bright side, the new capsules eg the PUIs available from
Mouser really show what is possible to rival $$$ commercial
microphone offerings.
-- Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
|
Awesome, thanks for the update, and thanks for keeping the
SimpleP48 dream alive. :-)
On 11/27/23 21:51, Richard Lee wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
After more than a decade, I've finally made more SimpleP48
mikes for my own use ... but found the passage of time hasn't
been kind to my eyes.
I found several errors and misleading info in my June 2020
document.? In particular, the first diagram is wrong? and likely
to cause errors for newbie & guru alike.? To my horror, I had
intimated that gurus Henry Spragen & Rick Wilkinson wired
their versions wrongly. :o? Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
I'm really sinking deep into my beach bum existence but these sins
prompted me to revise, correct & expand the document in my
Files.? Please let me know if you find anymore errors or disagree
with what I've written.
I'm indebted to various people who have sent me Word documents
converted from the PDF in my Files as I've lost all my original
work this Millenium in a number of HD crashes.
I can heartily recommend capsules which have wires already
soldered to them to avoid damage from inept & blind beach bums
waving soldering irons.
On the bright side, the new capsules eg the PUIs available from
Mouser really show what is possible to rival $$$ commercial
microphone offerings.
|
Andrzej Sochon