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OK - the whole point for me is to help people play wih microphone stuff and
make their own inexpensive, probably better versions of stupidly expensive
microphone products, besides I'm so bored making cargo container after
cargo container of telephone microphones and having no fellow mic nerds to
play with.

Later on, if it's needed, we can run small batches of odd ball parts, blank
PCB's, SMD PCB's, foam, metal, cables... whatever enough people would be
interested in and can agree on.

I'm looking to learn more about acoustics and microphone applications from
you guys and what I have to bring to the table is manufacturing capabilities.

Anybody here have serious microphone testing capabilities ?

Bob,

I couldn't agree with you more about "A collaborative design would be a great
inauguration of the new group."

I was here a long time ago and dropped out. I am constantly pestered by
steath mic makers and hobbyists to make DAT head type stuff. It's been way
on the back burner for a long time.

Finally I come back to look at doing this and find the group has starrted a
migration to a new group within days, maybe hours... PERFECT timing, or
what?

AS FAR AS MAKING THE LINKWITZ MOD Easy, what could be easier than
having it already done? If I recall the capsule part of the mod is simply
bypassing the internal FET?

How about we make a batch of something a bit better than 60 or 61 with NO
FET in it in the first place ?

--- In micbuilders@..., Bob Cain <arcane@a...> wrote:

mstrong82 wrote:

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some

competition. If

everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run some, pass

them out

and you guys can see what you think.

Further thoughts: while the default configuration probably
should remain common source, it would be nice if the design
had the modification to two wire source follower topography
in mind. That implies an easily located single trace to cut
and another to bridge that is easier to solder to than the
little tab on the WM-60/61 is.

A collaborative design would be a great inauguration of the
new group.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

12.7mm is 1/2". We can look at that. We can make anything makeable,
HOWEVER 6mm or 9.7mm is what we run all day, every day. That is where it
is realtively easy to slip in something special or different, like no FET, a
different FET, different membranes, spacers, tensions, etc.

What you have to realize here is that there are maybe 1,000 of you guys
doing very interesting and creative things with SMALL quantities of ECM's

Personally, I'm fascinated with this. It's my hobby as well as my day job. My
wife says I have no life outside of those little f-in silver cans ;-)

I can't make a dozen of this and a dozen of that. I need to make a minimum of
10,000 of something and know that eventually they will be consumed.

So we need to go for the highest usage DIY capsules and those are the 60/
61. We need to narrow down what is wanted in an off the shelf replacement
for them.



--- In micbuilders@..., Bob Cain <arcane@a...> wrote:

mstrong82 wrote:

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some

competition. If

everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run some, pass

them out

and you guys can see what you think.

What an interesting offer! Personally I'd be interested in
some with larger diaphragms, say 1/2", to increase the SNR
above the molecular shot noise and in directional models of
the same, particularly a cardiod and a figure 8.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

The BSE's with the NS preamp chip in them are OK for the big volume aps like
cell phones. I can put them in ECM's but have to ask myself, why? Eventually
NS or someone will make these with good specs, right now you just get
mediocre performance only of interest to people making high volume stuff like
cell phones and even then, they aren't that interesting.

umashankar mantravadi wrote:

certainly. i too would be interested in half a dozen half inch cardioids to
build some directional mikes.

Yeah, I'd like them for a DSP based DIY Ambisonic mic and
the fig 8 for a M/S mic. For the M/S I could live with back
to back cardiods for S but its more circuitry. The WM55A's
are just too noisy but the price is sure right.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

For my applications I agree a larger diaphragm of 1/2" would be great
and going much larger one starts to worry about condensation and
humidity in outdoor recordings.

There is a growing number of people that are recording "faint field"
and it is the omni's that don't have the proximity effect and it is
the figure 8's that are most hard to find.

No one is really marketing a product for this area of recording and
what I see dominating the "faint field" right now is the Senn ME 62
condenser, and the MKH 20-P48 which is an RF.

I don't consider my uses to be in the majority but with more people
looking at the new digital recorders there is more of a demand for
lower noise and higher s/n numbers.

I am off traveling to record the great white north tomorrow sometime.
Will return sunday nite. Recording White Pines, Streams, and winter
birds in woodland new snow is true "faint field".

Rich Peet

--- In micbuilders@..., Bob Cain <arcane@a...> wrote:

mstrong82 wrote:

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some

competition. If

everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run

some, pass them out

and you guys can see what you think.

What an interesting offer! Personally I'd be interested in
some with larger diaphragms, say 1/2", to increase the SNR
above the molecular shot noise and in directional models of
the same, particularly a cardiod and a figure 8.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

i would like to see a capsule without the fet. that should make it possible for many more design ideas - a low noise fet opamp for instance, bootstrapped, might work.

umashankar

mstrong82 wrote:

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some

competition. If

everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run some,

pass them out

and you guys can see what you think.

Further thoughts: while the default configuration probably
should remain common source, it would be nice if the design
had the modification to two wire source follower topography
in mind. That implies an easily located single trace to cut
and another to bridge that is easier to solder to than the
little tab on the WM-60/61 is.

A collaborative design would be a great inauguration of the
new group.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

_________________________________________________________________
Marriage? Join BharatMatrimony.com for free.

mstrong82 wrote:

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some competition. If
everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run some, pass them out
and you guys can see what you think.

Further thoughts: while the default configuration probably
should remain common source, it would be nice if the design
had the modification to two wire source follower topography
in mind. That implies an easily located single trace to cut
and another to bridge that is easier to solder to than the
little tab on the WM-60/61 is.

A collaborative design would be a great inauguration of the
new group.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

certainly. i too would be interested in half a dozen half inch cardioids to build some directional mikes.

umashankar

mstrong82 wrote:

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some

competition. If

everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run some,

pass them out

and you guys can see what you think.

What an interesting offer! Personally I'd be interested in
some with larger diaphragms, say 1/2", to increase the SNR
above the molecular shot noise and in directional models of
the same, particularly a cardiod and a figure 8.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

_________________________________________________________________
Sports buff? This hot new channel is for you! Get on the inside of all the action!

the rf mic circuit is floating on the net - it is primarily of the sennheiser 405 mic. i have it on my files but i do not remember where i got it from. i suppose you could take a regulation electret, remove the fet, and experiment. i do not know how much lower noise you would get. i suspect a larger diaphragm would be lower noise, merely by having higher output.

umashankar

_________________________________________________________________
Increase visibility. Maintain confidentiality. Post your CV on naukri.com today.

mstrong82 wrote:

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some competition. If
everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run some, pass them out
and you guys can see what you think.

What an interesting offer! Personally I'd be interested in
some with larger diaphragms, say 1/2", to increase the SNR
above the molecular shot noise and in directional models of
the same, particularly a cardiod and a figure 8.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

mstrong82 wrote:

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some
competition. If everyone can agree on what such a device ought
to be, I'll run some, pass them out and you guys can see what
you think.

Something with pre-amplifiers maybe? I have some Ole Wolff
microphones on desk at moment and testing them for one rather
specific applications. As I don't have panasonic WM60 in lab, I
can not compare it directly with OWMOP's. Take a look at:




Indrek

--
Indrek Rebane | Borthwick-Pignon
Electronics Engineer | Tartu Science Park
Phone: (+372) 7 302 641 | Riia 185, 51014 Tartu
Fax: (+372) 7 383 041 | Estonia
indrek@... | www.bps.co.ee

If there is enough interest in having ECM manufacture a replacement
for the WN60/61 capsule. Then how about manufacturing a capsule that
could be used in a RF mic? The capsule would be the capacitor in the
rf oscillator circuit. The resulting FM signal would then be
demodulated into a low impedance balanced output to the recording
device.

The mic electronics could be powered from 48V phantom power.

This type of microphone would be a very low noise mic!!

Anyone got any ideas, semantics, or sources of information???

Keith

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some competition. If
everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run some, pass them
out and you guys can see what you think.

This is true, however I have customers that have been specifing that I make them
ECM's with no FET's for years. In my customer's applications they are operating in
strong RF fields (radar) and they just use good spiral shield coax, run a few inches,
then hit their input device.

We make many kinds of ECM's It's time the WM-60/61 had some competition. If
everyone can agree on what such a device ought to be, I'll run some, pass them out
and you guys can see what you think.

I suggest you make someone else and "owner" of the list as well
(Yahoo allows 2 owners). That way, if something happens to you

(i.e.,

things come up in your life, you get sick, go on vacation, give up
making mics, whatever), someone else will be able to keep things

from

falling apart.

We got it covered. Macrohenry is control for ownership and he has
listed me as a moderator. We both have active the "delete group" key
as well as other functions. If Mac wishes to add a second moderator
I will leave that to his decision as I don't have a preference.

Because of the international members I see joining as well as
providers that appear to be phone connected I switched off posting
binaries but the Files and Photos area within the web based access
are active and open for posting. If someone wants something removed
from these areas you may have to e-mail me to accomplish that.

Rich Peet

In "Files"->"Schematics", I've upploaded a PDF describing how to
connect a modified Panasonic capsule to a balanced input (or cabel).
I've built it myself, but haven't got time for testing it. I will come
back when I have. ;)




The PDF was found on the net, I don't know who made it. More details
to come...






--- In micbuilders@..., Indrek Rebane <indrek@b...> wrote:

iloccom wrote:

It would be nice if someone provided a design that uses the

Panasonic

WM-60AY correctly utilizing balanced XLR.

This requires some kind of differential amplifier or transformer.

ADI differential drivers are known to be quite good (SSM2142 for

example, www.analog.com).

Indrek

--

Indrek Rebane | Borthwick-Pignon

Electronics Engineer | Tartu Science Park

Phone: (+372) 7 302 641 | Riia 185, 51014 Tartu

Fax: (+372) 7 383 041 | Estonia

indrek@b... | www.bps.co.ee

It's actually very simpel. After taking a look inside a few dynamic
microphones, I bougt a dynamic capsule and wired the capsule between
hot(2) and cold(3).




It is a bit sensitive to mechanical noise. The capsule I used was
named DU-2.









Impedans: 200 Ohm


Frequency response: 100-10.000 Hz


Sensitivity: 1,0mV/Pa


Omnidirectional




/ Per A










--- In micbuilders@..., "macrohenry" <macrohenry@y...>
wrote:

--- In micbuilders@..., "ljudatervinning"

<ljud.atervinning@s...> wrote:

I upploaded som photos of mics I've built.

What is your dynamic experiment? Please describe. Thanks.

Mac

--- In micbuilders@..., "Rich Peet" <richpeet@c...> wrote:

Mac suggests that I shouldn't even bother with posting from the
original group and making a mirror of those messages here.
It would save me time if we did make a clean break. Let me know if
anyone has strong feelings on that.

That makes sense to me. I think it might be a good idea to just post
a notice on the old page from time to time so that people can find
this one easily.

I suggest you make someone else and "owner" of the list as well
(Yahoo allows 2 owners). That way, if something happens to you (i.e.,
things come up in your life, you get sick, go on vacation, give up
making mics, whatever), someone else will be able to keep things from
falling apart.

I nominate Bob Cain, if he's willing. He seems like a reasonable guy,
whose fairly active on the list, and he's been posting here a very
long time. Speaking of which, I looked in the archives, and I see I
made my first post in March of 1999. Time flies!

Bob Rogers

--- In micbuilders@..., "ljudatervinning" <ljud.atervinning@s...> wrote:

I upploaded som photos of mics I've built.

What is your dynamic experiment? Please describe. Thanks.

Mac