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WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4
开云体育I've changed the subject line so I can rant and everyone else can click on delete. ? SoapboxBode := TRUE; I've had a P: drive pointing to C:/Projects on my workstation for more than 20 years. ?I also use Schematic and PCB layout software Protel 99SE which was superseded by Altium.? I've paid for support and upgrades up to Altium Designer 18 (2018).? The best of the Altium series was Summer 09 which won't run on WIN-10. ?Protel 99SE, which does run on my ?WIN-10 HP ZBook laptop but has screen/touchpad issues for selecting connections, can also see the P: drive on the networked laptop. ? The Rev 18 Altium running on the HP ZBook with WIN-10 cannot see the P: drive.?? AlibreCAD/CAM on WIN-10 can see the P-Drive.? ? Even my licenced copy of MACH3 which I've put on the WIN-10 system to check out G-Code before I head down to the shop with a USB drive can see for example: ? P:\CNC\Drawings\tensionerAssembly2_Setup 1.tap ? My Borland CodeWright 7.5 editor from 1991 which still runs on WIN-10 can access the P: Drive.? ? The ZBook was purchased last fall to replace a failing WIN-7 laptop that running Altium 18 could access the P: drive.? Haven't updated support for Altium for a few years.? Don't even like Altium 18 and how they've changed it so I wouldn't buy it now anyway since the stand alone license I have is now $5790.? I think the upgrade price they quoted me to go up to the latest version for one year support was $2790. ? WIN-10 was around in 2018.? There's no reason they shouldn't be able to see the P: drive. ? Almost enough for me to consider Fusion-360 were it not that the cost for 4th axis CAM which doubles what I'm paying now for AlibreCAD and soon Mecsoft VisualCAM to replace the discontinued AlibreCAM. ? Microchip's MPLAB-8 which I use for my ELS project runs on WIN-10 and can see the P drive. ? The latest version of Embarcadero RAD Studio 10.4 (Delphi and C++) also no longer runs on WIN-10.? Rev 10.3 does.? Support for that runs out in June.? Don't see any advantage to renewing support which is from the looks of their web page only $599 but wait there's more.? It would require a copy of WIN-10 Pro on my workstation which is 11 years old so likely would need replacing.? Although Office 2010 runs on WIN-10 it will probably break at some point so then there's a new copy of that.? So the real cost isn't $599 but closer to $5K by the time I upgrade everything like I had to with WinZip for $39 to run on WIN-10.? ? For what?? I know!? So I can have an "enhanced user experience" with my computers. ? And all those $ don't include the hours and hours required to upgrade stuff and remove the Microsoft viruses. ? Given the success I've had with LinuxCNC for the mill and both BeagleBone Black and Raspberry Pi projects Ubuntu is looking better and better.? The down side is the lack of a good CAD package.? ? SoapboxBode := FALSE; ? John Dammeyer ? ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jos Raven ? To me WIN-10 is like WIN-VISTA.? Crap. |
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Short Rant ON!!!? ?The only thing that Win10 is really good for is email and web browsing. "User experience."? They keep updating it, I'll have to go to Linux just to have something that works for productivity.? /End Rant Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 11:52:16 AM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:
I've changed the subject line so I can rant and everyone else can click on delete. ? SoapboxBode := TRUE; I've had a P: drive pointing to C:/Projects on my workstation for more than 20 years. ?I also use Schematic and PCB layout software Protel 99SE which was superseded by Altium.? I've paid for support and upgrades up to Altium Designer 18 (2018).? The best of the Altium series was Summer 09 which won't run on WIN-10. ?Protel 99SE, which does run on my ?WIN-10 HP ZBook laptop but has screen/touchpad issues for selecting connections, can also see the P: drive on the networked laptop. ? The Rev 18 Altium running on the HP ZBook with WIN-10 cannot see the P: drive.?? AlibreCAD/CAM on WIN-10 can see the P-Drive.? ? Even my licenced copy of MACH3 which I've put on the WIN-10 system to check out G-Code before I head down to the shop with a USB drive can see for example: ? P:\CNC\Drawings\tensionerAssembly2_Setup 1.tap ? My Borland CodeWright 7.5 editor from 1991 which still runs on WIN-10 can access the P: Drive.? ? The ZBook was purchased last fall to replace a failing WIN-7 laptop that running Altium 18 could access the P: drive.? Haven't updated support for Altium for a few years.? Don't even like Altium 18 and how they've changed it so I wouldn't buy it now anyway since the stand alone license I have is now $5790.? I think the upgrade price they quoted me to go up to the latest version for one year support was $2790. ? WIN-10 was around in 2018.? There's no reason they shouldn't be able to see the P: drive. ? Almost enough for me to consider Fusion-360 were it not that the cost for 4th axis CAM which doubles what I'm paying now for AlibreCAD and soon Mecsoft VisualCAM to replace the discontinued AlibreCAM. ? Microchip's MPLAB-8 which I use for my ELS project runs on WIN-10 and can see the P drive. ? The latest version of Embarcadero RAD Studio 10.4 (Delphi and C++) also no longer runs on WIN-10.? Rev 10.3 does.? Support for that runs out in June.? Don't see any advantage to renewing support which is from the looks of their web page only $599 but wait there's more.? It would require a copy of WIN-10 Pro on my workstation which is 11 years old so likely would need replacing.? Although Office 2010 runs on WIN-10 it will probably break at some point so then there's a new copy of that.? So the real cost isn't $599 but closer to $5K by the time I upgrade everything like I had to with WinZip for $39 to run on WIN-10.? ? For what?? I know!? So I can have an "enhanced user experience" with my computers. ? And all those $ don't include the hours and hours required to upgrade stuff and remove the Microsoft viruses. ? Given the success I've had with LinuxCNC for the mill and both BeagleBone Black and Raspberry Pi projects Ubuntu is looking better and better.? The down side is the lack of a good CAD package.? ? SoapboxBode := FALSE; ? John Dammeyer ? ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jos Raven ? To me WIN-10 is like WIN-VISTA.? Crap. |
开云体育What exactly do you people expect when using consumer grade stuff for industrial purposes? ? Windows was never intended to run CNC? machines, so if you’re doing that, just suck it up. ? It’s like the old joke where the bloke tells his doctor “It’s hurts when I do this”, so the doctor says “well, stop doing that”. ? That said Microsoft does have versions of Windows that have the “crap” (whatever you think crap is) stripped out, called CE / RT / Embedded / whatever intended for kiosks, ATM’s, point-of-sale etc, but even those aren’t meant for CNC. ? Even the machines you run that version of Windows are nothing like the PC’s you buy at your local store, most of them would be considered obsolete 10 years ago.? You want reliability you run old software on old hardware (old designs, but manufactured recently), and you don’t change it. ? Yeah yeah, we do it because we’re cheap hobbyists. ? Tony ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 4 April 2021 2:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? Short Rant ON!!!? ?The only thing that Win10 is really good for is email and web browsing. "User experience."? They keep updating it, I'll have to go to Linux just to have something that works for productivity.? ? /End Rant ? Bill in OKC ? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) ? ? A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, ? ? ? ? On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 11:52:16 AM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote: ? ? I've changed the subject line so I can rant and everyone else can click on delete. ? SoapboxBode := TRUE; I've had a P: drive pointing to C:/Projects on my workstation for more than 20 years. ?I also use Schematic and PCB layout software Protel 99SE which was superseded by Altium.? I've paid for support and upgrades up to Altium Designer 18 (2018).? The best of the Altium series was Summer 09 which won't run on WIN-10. ?Protel 99SE, which does run on my ?WIN-10 HP ZBook laptop but has screen/touchpad issues for selecting connections, can also see the P: drive on the networked laptop. ? The Rev 18 Altium running on the HP ZBook with WIN-10 cannot see the P: drive.?? AlibreCAD/CAM on WIN-10 can see the P-Drive.? ? Even my licenced copy of MACH3 which I've put on the WIN-10 system to check out G-Code before I head down to the shop with a USB drive can see for example: ? P:\CNC\Drawings\tensionerAssembly2_Setup 1.tap ? My Borland CodeWright 7.5 editor from 1991 which still runs on WIN-10 can access the P: Drive.? ? The ZBook was purchased last fall to replace a failing WIN-7 laptop that running Altium 18 could access the P: drive.? Haven't updated support for Altium for a few years.? Don't even like Altium 18 and how they've changed it so I wouldn't buy it now anyway since the stand alone license I have is now $5790.? I think the upgrade price they quoted me to go up to the latest version for one year support was $2790. ? WIN-10 was around in 2018.? There's no reason they shouldn't be able to see the P: drive. ? Almost enough for me to consider Fusion-360 were it not that the cost for 4th axis CAM which doubles what I'm paying now for AlibreCAD and soon Mecsoft VisualCAM to replace the discontinued AlibreCAM. ? Microchip's MPLAB-8 which I use for my ELS project runs on WIN-10 and can see the P drive. ? The latest version of Embarcadero RAD Studio 10.4 (Delphi and C++) also no longer runs on WIN-10.? Rev 10.3 does.? Support for that runs out in June.? Don't see any advantage to renewing support which is from the looks of their web page only $599 but wait there's more.? It would require a copy of WIN-10 Pro on my workstation which is 11 years old so likely would need replacing.? Although Office 2010 runs on WIN-10 it will probably break at some point so then there's a new copy of that.? So the real cost isn't $599 but closer to $5K by the time I upgrade everything like I had to with WinZip for $39 to run on WIN-10.? ? For what?? I know!? So I can have an "enhanced user experience" with my computers. ? And all those $ don't include the hours and hours required to upgrade stuff and remove the Microsoft viruses. ? Given the success I've had with LinuxCNC for the mill and both BeagleBone Black and Raspberry Pi projects Ubuntu is looking better and better.? The down side is the lack of a good CAD package.? ? SoapboxBode := FALSE; ? John Dammeyer ? ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jos Raven ? To me WIN-10 is like WIN-VISTA.? Crap. |
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I was perfectly happy with MS-DOS 3.21, it's been downhill since then.? The hardware is a great deal more capable, but the software designers seem to want to use all that memory and processor speed for flash and show, not capability. What we want is reliability and power, and what we get is bloat.? Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 12:34:38 PM CDT, Tony Smith <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
What exactly do you people expect when using consumer grade stuff for industrial purposes? ? Windows was never intended to run CNC? machines, so if you’re doing that, just suck it up. ? It’s like the old joke where the bloke tells his doctor “It’s hurts when I do this”, so the doctor says “well, stop doing that”. ? That said Microsoft does have versions of Windows that have the “crap” (whatever you think crap is) stripped out, called CE / RT / Embedded / whatever intended for kiosks, ATM’s, point-of-sale etc, but even those aren’t meant for CNC. ? Even the machines you run that version of Windows are nothing like the PC’s you buy at your local store, most of them would be considered obsolete 10 years ago.? You want reliability you run old software on old hardware (old designs, but manufactured recently), and you don’t change it. ? Yeah yeah, we do it because we’re cheap hobbyists. ? Tony ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 4 April 2021 2:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? Short Rant ON!!!? ?The only thing that Win10 is really good for is email and web browsing. "User experience."? They keep updating it, I'll have to go to Linux just to have something that works for productivity.? ? /End Rant ? Bill in OKC ? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) ? ? A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, ? ? ? ? On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 11:52:16 AM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote: ? ? I've changed the subject line so I can rant and everyone else can click on delete. ? SoapboxBode := TRUE; I've had a P: drive pointing to C:/Projects on my workstation for more than 20 years. ?I also use Schematic and PCB layout software Protel 99SE which was superseded by Altium.? I've paid for support and upgrades up to Altium Designer 18 (2018).? The best of the Altium series was Summer 09 which won't run on WIN-10. ?Protel 99SE, which does run on my ?WIN-10 HP ZBook laptop but has screen/touchpad issues for selecting connections, can also see the P: drive on the networked laptop. ? The Rev 18 Altium running on the HP ZBook with WIN-10 cannot see the P: drive.?? AlibreCAD/CAM on WIN-10 can see the P-Drive.? ? Even my licenced copy of MACH3 which I've put on the WIN-10 system to check out G-Code before I head down to the shop with a USB drive can see for example: ? P:\CNC\Drawings\tensionerAssembly2_Setup 1.tap ? My Borland CodeWright 7.5 editor from 1991 which still runs on WIN-10 can access the P: Drive.? ? The ZBook was purchased last fall to replace a failing WIN-7 laptop that running Altium 18 could access the P: drive.? Haven't updated support for Altium for a few years.? Don't even like Altium 18 and how they've changed it so I wouldn't buy it now anyway since the stand alone license I have is now $5790.? I think the upgrade price they quoted me to go up to the latest version for one year support was $2790. ? WIN-10 was around in 2018.? There's no reason they shouldn't be able to see the P: drive. ? Almost enough for me to consider Fusion-360 were it not that the cost for 4th axis CAM which doubles what I'm paying now for AlibreCAD and soon Mecsoft VisualCAM to replace the discontinued AlibreCAM. ? Microchip's MPLAB-8 which I use for my ELS project runs on WIN-10 and can see the P drive. ? The latest version of Embarcadero RAD Studio 10.4 (Delphi and C++) also no longer runs on WIN-10.? Rev 10.3 does.? Support for that runs out in June.? Don't see any advantage to renewing support which is from the looks of their web page only $599 but wait there's more.? It would require a copy of WIN-10 Pro on my workstation which is 11 years old so likely would need replacing.? Although Office 2010 runs on WIN-10 it will probably break at some point so then there's a new copy of that.? So the real cost isn't $599 but closer to $5K by the time I upgrade everything like I had to with WinZip for $39 to run on WIN-10.? ? For what?? I know!? So I can have an "enhanced user experience" with my computers. ? And all those $ don't include the hours and hours required to upgrade stuff and remove the Microsoft viruses. ? Given the success I've had with LinuxCNC for the mill and both BeagleBone Black and Raspberry Pi projects Ubuntu is looking better and better.? The down side is the lack of a good CAD package.? ? SoapboxBode := FALSE; ? John Dammeyer ? ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jos Raven ? To me WIN-10 is like WIN-VISTA.? Crap. |
开云体育So two things.? If you've ever tried any of the fancy video games you will very quickly see that the processing speed and power for those far exceeds anything you would ever do with CNC software. ?With the exception of hard real time.? Off load that to the ESS (or for older versions where it's supported the USB SS) ? So the power is there and has been since Microsoft moved screen access back to application programs in WIN NT-3.1.? Back then I was also writing device drivers for NT. ? The real problem is that generally the application developers are using the latest and greatest PCs and Video boards etc. while end users rarely want to spend as much as $3K every year to stay at the front.? So when that developer writes bloated code (this is the Microsoft programmers as well as after market compiler writers etc) they don't see the code bloat because the software loads fast and runs fast on that 12 core multi-GHz machine. ? ? It still runs on WIN-XP in 32 bit mode with a single core processor but only if the virus checking software is disabled since that takes up most of a core's processing time. ??With 12 cores you don't see that.? With an older PC you do.? And so on. ? Now if Microsoft (and others) were required to maintain compatibility (and not just runs but runs within a percentage of original speed) for the same duration as patents (17 or 21 years or whatever) then we'd see something different. ? I don't see why we should respect patents at all if the end users aren't respected for the same time frame.? ? Like the "Right to Repair" concept.? It's really simple.? We just have to say no. ? John ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io
Sent: April-03-21 10:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? I was perfectly happy with MS-DOS 3.21, it's been downhill since then.? The hardware is a great deal more capable, but the software designers seem to want to use all that memory and processor speed for flash and show, not capability. What we want is reliability and power, and what we get is bloat.? ? Bill in OKC ? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) ? ? A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, ? ? ? ? On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 12:34:38 PM CDT, Tony Smith <ajsmith1968@...> wrote: ? ? What exactly do you people expect when using consumer grade stuff for industrial purposes? ? Windows was never intended to run CNC? machines, so if you’re doing that, just suck it up. ? It’s like the old joke where the bloke tells his doctor “It’s hurts when I do this”, so the doctor says “well, stop doing that”. ? That said Microsoft does have versions of Windows that have the “crap” (whatever you think crap is) stripped out, called CE / RT / Embedded / whatever intended for kiosks, ATM’s, point-of-sale etc, but even those aren’t meant for CNC. ? Even the machines you run that version of Windows are nothing like the PC’s you buy at your local store, most of them would be considered obsolete 10 years ago.? You want reliability you run old software on old hardware (old designs, but manufactured recently), and you don’t change it. ? Yeah yeah, we do it because we’re cheap hobbyists. ? Tony ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io ? Short Rant ON!!!? ?The only thing that Win10 is really good for is email and web browsing. "User experience."? They keep updating it, I'll have to go to Linux just to have something that works for productivity.? ? /End Rant ? Bill in OKC ? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) ? ? A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, ? ? ? ? On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 11:52:16 AM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote: ? ? I've changed the subject line so I can rant and everyone else can click on delete. ? SoapboxBode := TRUE; I've had a P: drive pointing to C:/Projects on my workstation for more than 20 years. ?I also use Schematic and PCB layout software Protel 99SE which was superseded by Altium.? I've paid for support and upgrades up to Altium Designer 18 (2018).? The best of the Altium series was Summer 09 which won't run on WIN-10. ?Protel 99SE, which does run on my ?WIN-10 HP ZBook laptop but has screen/touchpad issues for selecting connections, can also see the P: drive on the networked laptop. ? The Rev 18 Altium running on the HP ZBook with WIN-10 cannot see the P: drive.?? AlibreCAD/CAM on WIN-10 can see the P-Drive.? ? Even my licenced copy of MACH3 which I've put on the WIN-10 system to check out G-Code before I head down to the shop with a USB drive can see for example: ? P:\CNC\Drawings\tensionerAssembly2_Setup 1.tap ? My Borland CodeWright 7.5 editor from 1991 which still runs on WIN-10 can access the P: Drive.? ? The ZBook was purchased last fall to replace a failing WIN-7 laptop that running Altium 18 could access the P: drive.? Haven't updated support for Altium for a few years.? Don't even like Altium 18 and how they've changed it so I wouldn't buy it now anyway since the stand alone license I have is now $5790.? I think the upgrade price they quoted me to go up to the latest version for one year support was $2790. ? WIN-10 was around in 2018.? There's no reason they shouldn't be able to see the P: drive. ? Almost enough for me to consider Fusion-360 were it not that the cost for 4th axis CAM which doubles what I'm paying now for AlibreCAD and soon Mecsoft VisualCAM to replace the discontinued AlibreCAM. ? Microchip's MPLAB-8 which I use for my ELS project runs on WIN-10 and can see the P drive. ? The latest version of Embarcadero RAD Studio 10.4 (Delphi and C++) also no longer runs on WIN-10.? Rev 10.3 does.? Support for that runs out in June.? Don't see any advantage to renewing support which is from the looks of their web page only $599 but wait there's more.? It would require a copy of WIN-10 Pro on my workstation which is 11 years old so likely would need replacing.? Although Office 2010 runs on WIN-10 it will probably break at some point so then there's a new copy of that.? So the real cost isn't $599 but closer to $5K by the time I upgrade everything like I had to with WinZip for $39 to run on WIN-10.? ? For what?? I know!? So I can have an "enhanced user experience" with my computers. ? And all those $ don't include the hours and hours required to upgrade stuff and remove the Microsoft viruses. ? Given the success I've had with LinuxCNC for the mill and both BeagleBone Black and Raspberry Pi projects Ubuntu is looking better and better.? The down side is the lack of a good CAD package.? ? SoapboxBode := FALSE; ? John Dammeyer ? ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jos Raven ? To me WIN-10 is like WIN-VISTA.? Crap. |
开云体育On 4/3/21 12:34 PM, Tony Smith wrote:
I totally agree -- humourously, Microsoft markets Windows
LTSB/LTSC as their "super stable" "use this on your critical
infrastructure" version of Windows.
Windows has always struggled with it's interrupt latency.
Windows IoT is just as bad as the LTSB/LTSC versions in that
Windows updates are mandatory.
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开云体育have you tried mapping another drive to another networked resource to validate your machine is even config'ed to 'share' drive? I have mapped drives all over the place... I RDP between at least
6 different desktops and laptops without issue. Heck I can even
RDP into my Raspberry Pi's acting as web servers fo the senrsors
in my beehives, all under Win10. As to your app not running under Win10 any longer.... is your Win10 version 32 or 64 bit???? Makes a WORLD of difference to anything needing to run in 'compatibility mode' btdt....?? am still running a version of Lotus's (the automobile
mfr) suspension design software circa 1997 on a win10 box. ptegler On 4/3/2021 12:51 PM, John Dammeyer
wrote:
-- Paul Tegler ptegler@... |
开云体育So go back to DOS on your 286, no one is stopping you. ? And “bloat” doesn’t really exist.? We’re back to the ‘sticky keys’ thing, just because you don’t need it doesn’t mean no-one needs it. ? And as for reliability, we’re back to application developers thinking “C:\Mach4\ makes a great installation directory.? (These same people then complain Windows security is shit.) ? Tony ? (Good thing people in this group don’t complain like those millennial & Gen-Z types.) ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 4 April 2021 3:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? I was perfectly happy with MS-DOS 3.21, it's been downhill since then.? The hardware is a great deal more capable, but the software designers seem to want to use all that memory and processor speed for flash and show, not capability. What we want is reliability and power, and what we get is bloat.? ? Bill in OKC ? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) ? ? A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, ? ? ? ? On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 12:34:38 PM CDT, Tony Smith <ajsmith1968@...> wrote: ? ? What exactly do you people expect when using consumer grade stuff for industrial purposes? ? Windows was never intended to run CNC? machines, so if you’re doing that, just suck it up. ? It’s like the old joke where the bloke tells his doctor “It’s hurts when I do this”, so the doctor says “well, stop doing that”. ? That said Microsoft does have versions of Windows that have the “crap” (whatever you think crap is) stripped out, called CE / RT / Embedded / whatever intended for kiosks, ATM’s, point-of-sale etc, but even those aren’t meant for CNC. ? Even the machines you run that version of Windows are nothing like the PC’s you buy at your local store, most of them would be considered obsolete 10 years ago.? You want reliability you run old software on old hardware (old designs, but manufactured recently), and you don’t change it. ? Yeah yeah, we do it because we’re cheap hobbyists. ? Tony ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io ? Short Rant ON!!!? ?The only thing that Win10 is really good for is email and web browsing. "User experience."? They keep updating it, I'll have to go to Linux just to have something that works for productivity.? ? /End Rant ? Bill in OKC ? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) ? ? A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, ? ? ? ? On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 11:52:16 AM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote: ? ? I've changed the subject line so I can rant and everyone else can click on delete. ? SoapboxBode := TRUE; I've had a P: drive pointing to C:/Projects on my workstation for more than 20 years. ?I also use Schematic and PCB layout software Protel 99SE which was superseded by Altium.? I've paid for support and upgrades up to Altium Designer 18 (2018).? The best of the Altium series was Summer 09 which won't run on WIN-10. ?Protel 99SE, which does run on my ?WIN-10 HP ZBook laptop but has screen/touchpad issues for selecting connections, can also see the P: drive on the networked laptop. ? The Rev 18 Altium running on the HP ZBook with WIN-10 cannot see the P: drive.?? AlibreCAD/CAM on WIN-10 can see the P-Drive.? ? Even my licenced copy of MACH3 which I've put on the WIN-10 system to check out G-Code before I head down to the shop with a USB drive can see for example: ? P:\CNC\Drawings\tensionerAssembly2_Setup 1.tap ? My Borland CodeWright 7.5 editor from 1991 which still runs on WIN-10 can access the P: Drive.? ? The ZBook was purchased last fall to replace a failing WIN-7 laptop that running Altium 18 could access the P: drive.? Haven't updated support for Altium for a few years.? Don't even like Altium 18 and how they've changed it so I wouldn't buy it now anyway since the stand alone license I have is now $5790.? I think the upgrade price they quoted me to go up to the latest version for one year support was $2790. ? WIN-10 was around in 2018.? There's no reason they shouldn't be able to see the P: drive. ? Almost enough for me to consider Fusion-360 were it not that the cost for 4th axis CAM which doubles what I'm paying now for AlibreCAD and soon Mecsoft VisualCAM to replace the discontinued AlibreCAM. ? Microchip's MPLAB-8 which I use for my ELS project runs on WIN-10 and can see the P drive. ? The latest version of Embarcadero RAD Studio 10.4 (Delphi and C++) also no longer runs on WIN-10.? Rev 10.3 does.? Support for that runs out in June.? Don't see any advantage to renewing support which is from the looks of their web page only $599 but wait there's more.? It would require a copy of WIN-10 Pro on my workstation which is 11 years old so likely would need replacing.? Although Office 2010 runs on WIN-10 it will probably break at some point so then there's a new copy of that.? So the real cost isn't $599 but closer to $5K by the time I upgrade everything like I had to with WinZip for $39 to run on WIN-10.? ? For what?? I know!? So I can have an "enhanced user experience" with my computers. ? And all those $ don't include the hours and hours required to upgrade stuff and remove the Microsoft viruses. ? Given the success I've had with LinuxCNC for the mill and both BeagleBone Black and Raspberry Pi projects Ubuntu is looking better and better.? The down side is the lack of a good CAD package.? ? SoapboxBode := FALSE; ? John Dammeyer ? ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jos Raven ? To me WIN-10 is like WIN-VISTA.? Crap. |
开云体育Every other program on that laptop can access the P drive.? A support group member suggested it's because I'm running Altium Designer in Administrator mode.? Pretty well have to do that because the shortcut on the desktop doesn't run at all if clicked and not set to Administrator. ? Running the application directly sometimes does run and then does have access to the P drive.? So it's now looking more like why this one application does not always run from the shortcut on the desktop. ? Click.? Cursor turns to circular waiting icon for about 5 seconds and then changes back to arrow pointer.? No tasks left running as shown by task manager. ? Do that with Altium Designer on the WIN-7 desktop and it runs every time perfectly. ? The only other Windows OS that every had these types of problems was Vista.? WIN-7 has been rock solid for 10 years. John ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Tegler via groups.io
Sent: April-03-21 12:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? have you tried mapping another drive to another networked resource to validate your machine is even config'ed to 'share' drive? I have mapped drives all over the place... I RDP between at least 6 different desktops and laptops without issue. Heck I can even RDP into my Raspberry Pi's acting as web servers fo the senrsors in my beehives, all under Win10. As to your app not running under Win10 any longer.... is your Win10 version 32 or 64 bit???? Makes a WORLD of difference to anything needing to run in 'compatibility mode' btdt....?? am still running a version of Lotus's (the automobile mfr) suspension design software circa 1997 on a win10 box. ptegler On 4/3/2021 12:51 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
-- Paul Tegler ptegler@...? |
开云体育Just a quick follow up on this. Seems that on the WIN-10 system if a program is run in administrator mode, like Altium Designer or RAD Studio etc. the P drive isn't there.? However the network still is but it doesn't appear to be possible under administrator mode to set up a P: drive to the network folder..? ? On WIN-7 it doesn't appear to matter if it's run in administrator or not as the P drive is still available.? So yet another feature on WIN-10 to "Enhance a user's experience" that like WIN-VISTA just makes life more difficult. ? BTW, this is true for MACH3 too. ?If I run it on my WIN-10 system as Administrator the P drive is gone.? Run it normally as the logged in user and the P drive is there. ? There's probably some configuration available to fix this.? No idea how though. ? John ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Dammeyer
Sent: April-03-21 3:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? Every other program on that laptop can access the P drive.? A support group member suggested it's because I'm running Altium Designer in Administrator mode.? Pretty well have to do that because the shortcut on the desktop doesn't run at all if clicked and not set to Administrator. ? Running the application directly sometimes does run and then does have access to the P drive.? So it's now looking more like why this one application does not always run from the shortcut on the desktop.? Click.? Cursor turns to circular waiting icon for about 5 seconds and then changes back to arrow pointer.? No tasks left running as shown by task manager. ? Do that with Altium Designer on the WIN-7 desktop and it runs every time perfectly. ? The only other Windows OS that every had these types of problems was Vista.? WIN-7 has been rock solid for 10 years. John ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Tegler via groups.io ? have you tried mapping another drive to another networked resource to validate your machine is even config'ed to 'share' drive? I have mapped drives all over the place... I RDP between at least 6 different desktops and laptops without issue. Heck I can even RDP into my Raspberry Pi's acting as web servers fo the senrsors in my beehives, all under Win10. As to your app not running under Win10 any longer.... is your Win10 version 32 or 64 bit???? Makes a WORLD of difference to anything needing to run in 'compatibility mode' btdt....?? am still running a version of Lotus's (the automobile mfr) suspension design software circa 1997 on a win10 box. ptegler On 4/3/2021 12:51 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
-- Paul Tegler ptegler@...? |
开云体育??? ??? I worked for Zilog back in the mid/late 70's & IIRC
when you bought a computer it didn't come with software except
maybe some boot software . I don't? think were any? standards in
motion so we sold I don't know maybe 5-10 ??? ??? different packages to run on your Zilog machines . Then I moved over to a disk drive company , we made the first 8" hard drive but once again no standers were out for interface , I think we had drives with 4-5 different interfaces . ??? ??? One of our Sister companies made a computer that would either run CPM or Oaisis ( sp ) & when they finally moved up to UNIX it was like WOW , now we're gettin somewhere . It turned into almost the same deal so??? many different ??? ??? versions from different companies & there was no method to the version lever , I think Ver 7 came out before ver 3 . I was finally able to learn enough using "awk " & a few commands that I was able to do just about anything I wanted . ??? ??? One of my good bubs was a software guru , we called him a
scientist & he once told? me " give me mirrors & software
& I can do just about anything " . Years down the road one day
in a meeting there was alot of talk about just how ??? ??? good UNIX was & my bud popped in with " how can you take anything like unix so serious when it was designed by a committee in face several committees at different places & everyone got their way ? ??? ??? I don't even know what to do with windows these days. ??? ??? animal On 4/3/2021 11:03 AM, John Dammeyer
wrote:
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开云体育On 4/3/21 5:06 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
Ohhh! I've seen what you're talking about. So the network share is mapped to P: -- and the laptop can see it and from, say, file explorer, you can traverse it -- but the program can't even see drive P: Is it the only mapped network share on that laptop? (I bet if you mapped more, they wouldn't show either) I've seen this problem with Windows Apps where it's the *network shares* they fail to see - only local drives. Very annoying indeed. I've never looked up the problem, but I know what you're talking about. ?-Ben |
开云体育It appears to be something with WIN-10 security.? Probably in the same way that VISTA cost millions of man hours as people had to fight the system and disable the default features. ? WIN-7 does not lose sight the P drive from a program run in administrator mode.? WIN-10 does.? For every program I tried so it's happening at the OS level. ? ? I've asked for help on the Altium Forum to find out if there's something that logs why the program might not start every time.? Very random.? Which is why I set it to administrator mode in the first place.? Not realizing that would break access to drive P: ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Kamen
Sent: April-03-21 10:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? On 4/3/21 5:06 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
Ohhh! |
开云体育Looks like it has to do with UAC. And it's been this way since Vista.
On 4/4/2021 2:08 AM, John Dammeyer
wrote:
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开云体育Thanks! ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of notoneleft
Sent: April 4, 2021 7:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? Looks like it has to do with UAC. And it's been this way since Vista. ?
? ? ? On 4/4/2021 2:08 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
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开云体育Yet another example of where VISTA still haunts us.? Thank you.? That worked.? Just the annoying nag screen about running the program as administrator. ? I'll guess that many years ago the very first thing I did on the WIN-7 systems is disable the UAC completely after fighting it in VISTA.??? Which is probably why things start up so much faster or even just start up. ? Now Altium Designer can find the P drive.?? And yet as normal user 9 times out of 10 it won't start.? Still waiting for a reply from the forum on whether there is some sort of start-up log file that might have a clue. ? John ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of notoneleft
Sent: April-04-21 4:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WIN-VISTA-10 Was RE: [MachCNC] mach4 ? Looks like it has to do with UAC. And it's been this way since Vista. ?
? ? ? On 4/4/2021 2:08 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
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Bill in OKC too