Good morning, I am looking for some advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about building a CNC welder for a production beam welding job that we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1 rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis total. Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z. My questions are; - Has anybody built something like this, that would have any experiences to share?
- Is anyone using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4, is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow me to build Gcode by jogging to points similar to programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high for this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller intricate parts. ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
|
Hi Brian,
I really love the users we have, you are 100% reading my mind! I
have been dreaming about doing this and have some ideas. I have
most all the code and I have things that you don't know about that
we can use to help you with this project. If you want to chat
about this send me a message off list and we can talk over the
phone. I am in!
Thanks
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 7:45 AM, Brian Martin
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Good morning, I am looking for some advice
and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have built a
couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so I am
comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about building a
CNC welder for a production beam welding job that we do. I
would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1 rotary axis
for the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis total.
Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z.
My questions are;
- Has anybody
built something like this, that would have any experiences
to share?
- Is anyone
using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4, is
there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow me to
build Gcode by jogging to points similar to programing a
robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with UR
arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the UR
arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high for this
job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller intricate parts.
?
Thank-you!
Brian Martin

?
|
Thanks for the offer Brian. I will? be looking into the design some more. At this point I only have a vision. I will try to model what I want in Solidworks, and figure out the motion/ linear bearing etc.. If the project goes ahead, I will try to contact you. ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Barker Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 8:25 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Mach4 teach/record ? Hi Brian, I really love the users we have, you are 100% reading my mind! I have been dreaming about doing this and have some ideas. I have most all the code and I have things that you don't know about that we can use to help you with this project. If you want to chat about this send me a message off list and we can talk over the phone. I am in! Thanks ______________________________ ? Brian Barker Engineering / Development ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions Livermore Falls, Maine (USA) Webpage: On 2/21/2022 7:45 AM, Brian Martin wrote: Good morning, I am looking for some advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about building a CNC welder for a production beam welding job that we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1 rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis total. Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z. My questions are; - Has anybody built something like this, that would have any experiences to share?
- Is anyone using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4, is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow me to build Gcode by jogging to points similar to programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high for this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller intricate parts. ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
|
Cool, I have a welding bench here and a few welders I can hook up
for testing. I was thinking I would make something that would
mount to my table from weldtables.com . So if you want to do this
don't worry about the software side. We can read the encoders and
use that to program the motion... ALSO I can move every axis as it
is moving to get the machine where the wield should be.
Thanks
Brian
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 10:09 AM, Brian Martin
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks for the offer Brian. I will? be
looking into the design some more. At this point I only have a
vision. I will try to model what I want in Solidworks, and
figure out the motion/ linear bearing etc.. If the project
goes ahead, I will try to contact you.
?
Thank-you!
Brian Martin

?
?
Hi Brian,
I really love the users we have, you are 100% reading my
mind! I have been dreaming about doing this and have some
ideas. I have most all the code and I have things that you
don't know about that we can use to help you with this
project. If you want to chat about this send me a message off
list and we can talk over the phone. I am in!
Thanks
______________________________
?
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 7:45 AM, Brian Martin wrote:
Good morning, I am looking for some
advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have
built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so
I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about
building a CNC welder for a production beam welding job that
we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1
rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis
total. Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y,
x 60”Z.
My questions are;
- Has
anybody built something like this, that would have any
experiences to share?
- Is anyone
using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4,
is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow
me to build Gcode by jogging to points similar to
programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with
UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the
UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high for
this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller intricate
parts.
?
Thank-you!
Brian
Martin

?
|
Greeaat!! On my last mill I built I used Clearpath servos. Is that a good option, or do you have another favorite? ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Barker Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 10:57 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Mach4 teach/record ? Cool, I have a welding bench here and a few welders I can hook up for testing. I was thinking I would make something that would mount to my table from weldtables.com . So if you want to do this don't worry about the software side. We can read the encoders and use that to program the motion... ALSO I can move every axis as it is moving to get the machine where the wield should be. ? Thanks Brian ? ______________________________ ? Brian Barker Engineering / Development ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions Livermore Falls, Maine (USA) Webpage: On 2/21/2022 10:09 AM, Brian Martin wrote: Thanks for the offer Brian. I will? be looking into the design some more. At this point I only have a vision. I will try to model what I want in Solidworks, and figure out the motion/ linear bearing etc.. If the project goes ahead, I will try to contact you. ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
? ? Hi Brian, I really love the users we have, you are 100% reading my mind! I have been dreaming about doing this and have some ideas. I have most all the code and I have things that you don't know about that we can use to help you with this project. If you want to chat about this send me a message off list and we can talk over the phone. I am in! Thanks ______________________________ ? Brian Barker Engineering / Development ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions Livermore Falls, Maine (USA) Webpage: On 2/21/2022 7:45 AM, Brian Martin wrote: Good morning, I am looking for some advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about building a CNC welder for a production beam welding job that we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1 rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis total. Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z. My questions are; - Has anybody built something like this, that would have any experiences to share?
- Is anyone using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4, is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow me to build Gcode by jogging to points similar to programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high for this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller intricate parts. ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
|
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 6:45 AM Brian Martin < bmm@...> wrote: Good morning, I am looking for some advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about building a CNC welder for a production beam welding job that we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1 rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis total. Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z. My questions are; - Has anybody built something like this, that would have any experiences to share?
- Is anyone using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4, is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow me to build Gcode by jogging to points similar to programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high for this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller intricate parts.
I've thought of running the Cobot on a x-y sled? - - - maybe underslung to keep the crap out of things.? Then the rotary dimensions are handled separately.? Simple - - no - - - doable - - - I think so.??
|
??? ??? Now , there's a company with it's customers in mind !!!!!
??? ??? Wish there were more like that .
??? ??? animal
On 2/21/2022 5:24 AM, Brian Barker
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Brian,
I really love the users we have, you are 100% reading my mind!
I have been dreaming about doing this and have some ideas. I
have most all the code and I have things that you don't know
about that we can use to help you with this project. If you want
to chat about this send me a message off list and we can talk
over the phone. I am in!
Thanks
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 7:45 AM, Brian Martin
wrote:
Good morning, I am looking for some
advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have
built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so
I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about
building a CNC welder for a production beam welding job that
we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1
rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis
total. Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y,
x 60”Z.
My questions are;
- Has
anybody built something like this, that would have any
experiences to share?
- Is anyone
using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4,
is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow
me to build Gcode by jogging to points similar to
programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with
UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the
UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high for
this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller intricate
parts.
?
Thank-you!
Brian Martin

?
|
The Clear path motors are okay but I think the best ones to use
for this would be closed loop steppers! I know stepper and you
want to say NO! but hear me out. The Closed loop steppers are
really a 50 pole AC servo motors. We can read the encoder and use
that data for telling the machine where it is while your teaching
it. Not need for any real fancy drive! We can use a chain to move
the welding head. for all I care and direct drive off the stepper
motor. I have done machines like this in the past this way and
they work slick! The issue with the Clear path is that you will
have inertia mismatch and the motor will not be able to be tuned
properly (I have some here that I can't use for that reason). If
you don't want to use a closed loop stepper we can use a normal
stepper and I can watch the position of some Aux encoders and use
them to look for missed steps and for the teach function. Okay I
think that is me blowing off at the mouth long enough. I am such a
sucker for a cool project LOL
Thanks
Brian
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 11:06 AM, Brian Martin
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Greeaat!! On my last mill I built I used
Clearpath servos. Is that a good option, or do you have
another favorite?
?
Thank-you!
Brian Martin

?
?
Cool, I have a welding bench here and a few welders I can
hook up for testing. I was thinking I would make something
that would mount to my table from weldtables.com . So if you
want to do this don't worry about the software side. We can
read the encoders and use that to program the motion... ALSO I
can move every axis as it is moving to get the machine where
the wield should be.
?
Thanks
Brian
?
______________________________
?
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 10:09 AM, Brian Martin
wrote:
Thanks for the offer Brian. I will? be
looking into the design some more. At this point I only have
a vision. I will try to model what I want in Solidworks, and
figure out the motion/ linear bearing etc.. If the project
goes ahead, I will try to contact you.
?
Thank-you!
Brian
Martin

?
?
Hi Brian,
I really love the users we have, you are 100% reading my
mind! I have been dreaming about doing this and have some
ideas. I have most all the code and I have things that you
don't know about that we can use to help you with this
project. If you want to chat about this send me a message
off list and we can talk over the phone. I am in!
Thanks
______________________________
?
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 7:45 AM, Brian Martin
wrote:
Good morning, I am looking for some
advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have
built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS,
so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking
about building a CNC welder for a production beam welding
job that we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at
least1 rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4
rotary axis total. Overall travel would be approximately,
144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z.
My questions are;
- Has
anybody built something like this, that would have any
experiences to share?
- Is
anyone using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If
Mach4, is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that
will allow me to build Gcode by jogging to points
similar to programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot
with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach
of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too
high for this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller
intricate parts.
?
Thank-you!
Brian
Martin

?
|
My dream is to not need the Cobot... why because they are small
and lots of money. I dream of making some software that will do
the anything over 6" weld for me so I can drink my coffee and
watch it get sunburn. ;)
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 11:19 AM, o1bigtenor
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 6:45
AM Brian Martin < bmm@...>
wrote:
Good morning, I am looking for some
advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I
have built a couple CNC machines in the past using
Mach4/ESS, so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I
am thinking about building a CNC welder for a
production beam welding job that we do. I would like
to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1 rotary axis for
the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis total.
Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y,
x 60”Z.
My questions are;
- Has anybody built something
like this, that would have any experiences to share?
- Is anyone using Mach4 to run
a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4, is there a plugin
or wizard or otherwise, that will allow me to build
Gcode by jogging to points similar to programing a
robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot
with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the
reach of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the
cost is too high for this job. I will keep using the
Cobot for smaller intricate parts.
I've thought of running the Cobot on a x-y sled? - - -
maybe underslung to keep the crap out of things.?
Then the rotary dimensions are handled separately.?
Simple - - no - - - doable - - - I think so.??
|
Jokes on you, I'm having fun ! LOL
It is true... Most people don't like what they do. I really enjoy
it, to the point that I am a coach for a local Robotics team.
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 12:56 PM, mike allen
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
??? ??? Now , there's a company with it's customers in mind
!!!!!
??? ??? Wish there were more like that .
??? ??? animal
On 2/21/2022 5:24 AM, Brian Barker
wrote:
Hi Brian,
I really love the users we have, you are 100% reading my
mind! I have been dreaming about doing this and have some
ideas. I have most all the code and I have things that you
don't know about that we can use to help you with this
project. If you want to chat about this send me a message off
list and we can talk over the phone. I am in!
Thanks
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 7:45 AM, Brian Martin
wrote:
Good morning, I am looking for some
advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have
built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS,
so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking
about building a CNC welder for a production beam welding
job that we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at
least1 rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4
rotary axis total. Overall travel would be approximately,
144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z.
My questions are;
- Has
anybody built something like this, that would have any
experiences to share?
- Is
anyone using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If
Mach4, is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that
will allow me to build Gcode by jogging to points
similar to programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot
with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach
of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too
high for this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller
intricate parts.
?
Thank-you!
Brian Martin

?
|
I actually talked to Vectis about this before I got my Cobot. It was still too far of a stretch for the Cobot arm though. Also the cost vs. benefit ratio was too low to do an overhead mount. Actually Brian I am completely open at this point as far as components. What motion card would you use, will the smooth stepper work with encoders? I like the idea of using ethernet, my thought is to have the pc mounted on a wheeled work station with a single cable to the machine. ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of o1bigtenor Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 11:20 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Mach4 teach/record ? ? On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 6:45 AM Brian Martin <bmm@...> wrote: Good morning, I am looking for some advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I have built a couple CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about building a CNC welder for a production beam welding job that we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z plus at least1 rotary axis for the positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis total. Overall travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z. My questions are; - Has anybody built something like this, that would have any experiences to share?
- Is anyone using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4, is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow me to build Gcode by jogging to points similar to programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high for this job. I will keep using the Cobot for smaller intricate parts.
I've thought of running the Cobot on a x-y sled? - - - maybe underslung to keep the crap out of things.? Then the rotary dimensions are handled separately.? Simple - - no - - - doable - - - I think so.??
|
??? ??? Good deal !! . I really enjoyed my last profession for
probably the first 15 or so years , & after that I was just
sick & tired of the people I had to deal with ., but I always?
( well almost ) kept my ??? ??? ??? ??? cool . Passing on
knowledge is a pretty honorable trait in my book .
??? ??? thanks
??? ??? animal
On 2/21/2022 12:51 PM, Brian Barker
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Jokes on you, I'm having fun ! LOL
It is true... Most people don't like what they do. I really
enjoy it, to the point that I am a coach for a local Robotics
team.
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 12:56 PM, mike allen
wrote:
??? ??? Now , there's a company with it's customers in mind
!!!!!
??? ??? Wish there were more like that .
??? ??? animal
On 2/21/2022 5:24 AM, Brian Barker
wrote:
Hi Brian,
I really love the users we have, you are 100% reading my
mind! I have been dreaming about doing this and have some
ideas. I have most all the code and I have things that you
don't know about that we can use to help you with this
project. If you want to chat about this send me a message
off list and we can talk over the phone. I am in!
Thanks
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 7:45 AM, Brian
Martin wrote:
Good morning, I am looking for some
advice and ideas for a project I am brainstorming. I
have built a couple CNC machines in the past using
Mach4/ESS, so I am comfortable doing it again. Now I am
thinking about building a CNC welder for a production
beam welding job that we do. I would like to control
X,Y,&Z plus at least1 rotary axis for the
positioner, possibly up to 4 rotary axis total. Overall
travel would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z.
My questions are;
- Has
anybody built something like this, that would have any
experiences to share?
- Is
anyone using Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If
Mach4, is there a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that
will allow me to build Gcode by jogging to points
similar to programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I recently purchased a Vectis Cobot
with UR arm, so I am familiar with robotics, but the
reach of the UR arm is limited, not to mention the cost
is too high for this job. I will keep using the Cobot
for smaller intricate parts.
?
Thank-you!
Brian Martin

?
|
Hi Brian,
We can use the ESS if you like. The motion card to me is a little
transparent (mach 4 is hardware agnostic). As long as we can
support the reading of encoders we can make this work. If we did
Ethercat I could look at the current and make it basically a
Cobot. We could sense the current and kill motion and stop on
quickly increased loads.? May be a bit much for what your looking
to do but we really can do anything ;)? . Closed loop steppers and
an ESS with the encoders going back to the ESS so we can see the
position, I think is about as good as it is going to get for a
minimal investment. You will be able to move the bot to position
manually (you will need to make some sort of way to counterbalance
the Z axis) and teach it positions . Jogging for a use case like
this just to slow. I want to move to position and hold the head
where I would like to weld and press a button to set the positions
to weld . Simple and fast is what I am looking for. This may just
be me, but when I pick up a welder and start working I am not in
the mood to be a programmer. When I am in welding mode I pull out
the C clamps and hammers ;) CNC machine should be as useful, if
not... it's a fail!
Okay enough of me running at the mouth.. Time to work with the
boy and get this engine painted so he can rebuild his first engine
on his own. I figure a 1939 9N is a good simple start. I guess
looking at it I should be teaching him electric motors and how to
program a BMS... Never thought it would happen but I think I am
getting dated (Yeah, I didn't want to say old)
Thanks
Brian
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/21/2022 4:20 PM, Brian Martin
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I actually talked to Vectis about this
before I got my Cobot. It was still too far of a stretch for
the Cobot arm though. Also the cost vs. benefit ratio was too
low to do an overhead mount.
Actually Brian I am completely open at this
point as far as components. What motion card would you use,
will the smooth stepper work with encoders?
I like the idea of using ethernet, my
thought is to have the pc mounted on a wheeled work station
with a single cable to the machine.
?
Thank-you!
Brian Martin

?
?
?
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 6:45 AM Brian
Martin <bmm@...>
wrote:
Good
morning, I am looking for some advice and ideas for
a project I am brainstorming. I have built a couple
CNC machines in the past using Mach4/ESS, so I am
comfortable doing it again. Now I am thinking about
building a CNC welder for a production beam welding
job that we do. I would like to control X,Y,&Z
plus at least1 rotary axis for the positioner,
possibly up to 4 rotary axis total. Overall travel
would be approximately, 144”X, x 48”Y, x 60”Z.
My
questions are;
- Has anybody built
something like this, that would have any
experiences to share?
- Is anyone using
Mach4 to run a robotic welder? Good/bad?
- If Mach4, is there
a plugin or wizard or otherwise, that will allow
me to build Gcode by jogging to points similar to
programing a robot? Like a teach function?
I
recently purchased a Vectis Cobot with UR arm, so I
am familiar with robotics, but the reach of the UR
arm is limited, not to mention the cost is too high
for this job. I will keep using the Cobot for
smaller intricate parts.
I've thought of running the Cobot on
a x-y sled? - - - maybe underslung to keep the crap out
of things.?
Then the rotary dimensions are
handled separately.?
Simple - - no - - - doable - - - I
think so.??
|
On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 6:15 AM Brian Barker < brianb@...> wrote:
Hi Brian,
We can use the ESS if you like. The motion card to me is a little
transparent (mach 4 is hardware agnostic). As long as we can
support the reading of encoders we can make this work. If we did
Ethercat I could look at the current and make it basically a
Cobot. We could sense the current and kill motion and stop on
quickly increased loads.? May be a bit much for what your looking
to do but we really can do anything ;)? . Closed loop steppers and
an ESS with the encoders going back to the ESS so we can see the
position, I think is about as good as it is going to get for a
minimal investment. You will be able to move the bot to position
manually (you will need to make some sort of way to counterbalance
the Z axis) and teach it positions . Jogging for a use case like
this just to slow. I want to move to position and hold the head
where I would like to weld and press a button to set the positions
to weld . Simple and fast is what I am looking for. This may just
be me, but when I pick up a welder and start working I am not in
the mood to be a programmer. When I am in welding mode I pull out
the C clamps and hammers ;) CNC machine should be as useful, if
not... it's a fail!
Greetings
(I think I am getting confused as to 'which' Brian I am addressing but - - - )
I have only briefly looked into Ethercat.? Would you please direct me to some resources? so that I could better understand Ethercat,? including its benefits and negatives.?
I have further questions on this - - - - maybe this should be broken into? a new thread? Argh - - - whatever - - - please for the info?
TIA
|
No problem, o1bigtenor. I want to know more about Ethercat also. Go ahead with the discussion! Does an Ethercat drive network directly to the PC, or is there still a motion control interface/card? ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of o1bigtenor Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 7:53 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Mach4 teach/record ? ? On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 6:15 AM Brian Barker <brianb@...> wrote: Hi Brian, We can use the ESS if you like. The motion card to me is a little transparent (mach 4 is hardware agnostic). As long as we can support the reading of encoders we can make this work. If we did Ethercat I could look at the current and make it basically a Cobot. We could sense the current and kill motion and stop on quickly increased loads.? May be a bit much for what your looking to do but we really can do anything ;)? . Closed loop steppers and an ESS with the encoders going back to the ESS so we can see the position, I think is about as good as it is going to get for a minimal investment. You will be able to move the bot to position manually (you will need to make some sort of way to counterbalance the Z axis) and teach it positions . Jogging for a use case like this just to slow. I want to move to position and hold the head where I would like to weld and press a button to set the positions to weld . Simple and fast is what I am looking for. This may just be me, but when I pick up a welder and start working I am not in the mood to be a programmer. When I am in welding mode I pull out the C clamps and hammers ;) CNC machine should be as useful, if not... it's a fail! ?
(I think I am getting confused as to 'which' Brian I am addressing but - - - ) I have only briefly looked into Ethercat.? Would you please direct me to some resources? so that I could better understand Ethercat,? including its benefits and negatives.? I have further questions on this - - - - maybe this should be broken into? a new thread? Argh - - - whatever - - - please for the info?
|
On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 7:02 AM Brian Martin < bmm@...> wrote: No problem, o1bigtenor. I want to know more about Ethercat also. Go ahead with the discussion! Does an Ethercat drive network directly to the PC, or is there still a motion control interface/card? ?
Greetings
My phrase is 'what I know I can write on paper with big block letters and there is still plenty of room? inside the thimble, after inserting the paper, for my finger' - - - - which is to say - - precious little.?
AIUI its a ethernet modification - - - to speed communications between devices, specifically? - - again, AIUI, for drives to controls. There is a master info source at:? ?
my search engine (duckduckgo) included this with that address:?
The?EtherCAT?technology overcomes the system limitations of other Ethernet solutions: The Ethernet packet is no longer received, then interpreted and copied as process data at every connection. Instead, the Ethernet frame is processed on the fly.
So - - - it would seem that the value is in high speed connections.?
I'm not sure at what level ethercat comes into its own - - - haven't been able to? find anything like 'a noobs guide to ethercat' . As usual one is expected to be? at least sorta of a master form the get go - - - - docs are so tedious to write? is what needs to be remembered (NOT - - -imo!). So the whole seems like it? could be useful - - - but exactly how - - - well - - - that's why I was asking for? info tips.?
(One more technology to master)
From the still quite befogged mind of?
(LOL)
|
Hi Guys,
EtherCat is basically a distributed motion controller. So picture
an ESS that? is in the drives as well as in the IO blocks . Its
sort of like a Modbus setup but is all in realtime. You can mix
and match hardware in an Ethercat system. So you can have drives
from Yaskawa , Elmo, Omron , Delta , Leadshine and so on all on
the same network. The drives could power Steppers or servos (the
system has no idea what one it is..) You can also use IO from in
the drives OR add IO modules as well. The Ethernet cable just goes
from drive to drive and IO to IO. With the Kingstar / Mahc4 setup
you can also to ABS encoders so you do not need to home the
machine when you start it. This is REALLY cools because you don't
need to have home switches or any of that other hardware. You can
also read as much data about the drive as you would like. So you
can see what current the motor is using for example .
Now you can do this without the Kingstar software and add a
hardware master like the board Vital systems has. This is a little
more limiting but is much more flexible as to what PC it will work
with. This is not the be all end all but it is the best way to
make a high end system. It is the future... Well it really is here
and the prices have been dropping like crazy.
Okay I think that made more confusion than it helped ;)
Thanks
Brian
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/22/2022 10:11 AM, o1bigtenor
wrote:
On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at
7:02 AM Brian Martin < bmm@...>
wrote:
No problem, o1bigtenor. I want
to know more about Ethercat also. Go ahead with
the discussion!
Does an Ethercat drive network
directly to the PC, or is there still a motion
control interface/card?
?
Greetings
My phrase is 'what I know I can write on paper with
big block letters and there is still plenty of room?
inside the thimble, after inserting the paper, for my
finger' - - - - which is to say - - precious little.?
AIUI its a ethernet modification - - - to speed
communications between devices, specifically?
- - again, AIUI, for drives to controls. There is a
master info source at:?
?
my search engine (duckduckgo) included this with that
address:?
The?EtherCAT?technology
overcomes the system limitations of other Ethernet
solutions: The Ethernet packet is no longer received,
then interpreted and copied as process data at every
connection. Instead, the Ethernet frame is processed
on the fly.
So
- - - it would seem that the value is in high speed
connections.?
I'm
not sure at what level ethercat comes into its own - -
- haven't been able to?
find
anything like 'a noobs guide to ethercat' . As usual
one is expected to be?
at least sorta of a master
form the get go - - - - docs are so tedious to
write?
is what needs to be
remembered (NOT - - -imo!). So the whole seems like
it?
could be useful - - - but
exactly how - - - well - - - that's why I was asking
for?
info tips.?
(One more technology to
master)
From the still quite
befogged mind of?
(LOL)
|
That mostly makes sense, I have a Senfeng 4KW laser that has a mixture Yaskawa and Delt drives on it. I will do some more reading on Ethercat. ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Barker Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 11:06 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Mach4 teach/record ? Hi Guys, EtherCat is basically a distributed motion controller. So picture an ESS that? is in the drives as well as in the IO blocks . Its sort of like a Modbus setup but is all in realtime. You can mix and match hardware in an Ethercat system. So you can have drives from Yaskawa , Elmo, Omron , Delta , Leadshine and so on all on the same network. The drives could power Steppers or servos (the system has no idea what one it is..) You can also use IO from in the drives OR add IO modules as well. The Ethernet cable just goes from drive to drive and IO to IO. With the Kingstar / Mahc4 setup you can also to ABS encoders so you do not need to home the machine when you start it. This is REALLY cools because you don't need to have home switches or any of that other hardware. You can also read as much data about the drive as you would like. So you can see what current the motor is using for example . ? Now you can do this without the Kingstar software and add a hardware master like the board Vital systems has. This is a little more limiting but is much more flexible as to what PC it will work with. This is not the be all end all but it is the best way to make a high end system. It is the future... Well it really is here and the prices have been dropping like crazy. ? Okay I think that made more confusion than it helped ;) ? Thanks Brian ? ? ______________________________ ? Brian Barker Engineering / Development ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions Livermore Falls, Maine (USA) Webpage: On 2/22/2022 10:11 AM, o1bigtenor wrote: ? On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 7:02 AM Brian Martin <bmm@...> wrote: No problem, o1bigtenor. I want to know more about Ethercat also. Go ahead with the discussion! Does an Ethercat drive network directly to the PC, or is there still a motion control interface/card? ?
My phrase is 'what I know I can write on paper with big block letters and there is still plenty of room? inside the thimble, after inserting the paper, for my finger' - - - - which is to say - - precious little.? AIUI its a ethernet modification - - - to speed communications between devices, specifically? - - again, AIUI, for drives to controls. There is a master info source at:? my search engine (duckduckgo) included this with that address:? The?EtherCAT?technology overcomes the system limitations of other Ethernet solutions: The Ethernet packet is no longer received, then interpreted and copied as process data at every connection. Instead, the Ethernet frame is processed on the fly. So - - - it would seem that the value is in high speed connections.? I'm not sure at what level ethercat comes into its own - - - haven't been able to? find anything like 'a noobs guide to ethercat' . As usual one is expected to be? at least sorta of a master form the get go - - - - docs are so tedious to write? is what needs to be remembered (NOT - - -imo!). So the whole seems like it? could be useful - - - but exactly how - - - well - - - that's why I was asking for? (One more technology to master) From the still quite befogged mind of?
|
That is using step and direction if it is running the Chinese
control software. I took that all out of my laser and have been
putting in Mach4 with Ethercat :) . We are working on trying to
talk to the Raycus fiber generator now ... That is NO fun to try
and get support from them
______________________________
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/22/2022 2:21 PM, Brian Martin
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
That mostly makes sense, I have a Senfeng
4KW laser that has a mixture Yaskawa and Delt drives on it. I
will do some more reading on Ethercat.
?
Thank-you!
Brian Martin

?
?
Hi Guys,
EtherCat is basically a distributed motion controller. So
picture an ESS that? is in the drives as well as in the IO
blocks . Its sort of like a Modbus setup but is all in
realtime. You can mix and match hardware in an Ethercat
system. So you can have drives from Yaskawa , Elmo, Omron ,
Delta , Leadshine and so on all on the same network. The
drives could power Steppers or servos (the system has no idea
what one it is..) You can also use IO from in the drives OR
add IO modules as well. The Ethernet cable just goes from
drive to drive and IO to IO. With the Kingstar / Mahc4 setup
you can also to ABS encoders so you do not need to home the
machine when you start it. This is REALLY cools because you
don't need to have home switches or any of that other
hardware. You can also read as much data about the drive as
you would like. So you can see what current the motor is using
for example .
?
Now you can do this without the Kingstar software and add a
hardware master like the board Vital systems has. This is a
little more limiting but is much more flexible as to what PC
it will work with. This is not the be all end all but it is
the best way to make a high end system. It is the future...
Well it really is here and the prices have been dropping like
crazy.
?
Okay I think that made more confusion than it helped ;)
?
Thanks
Brian
?
?
______________________________
?
Brian Barker
Engineering / Development
ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions
Livermore Falls, Maine (USA)
Webpage:
On 2/22/2022 10:11 AM, o1bigtenor wrote:
?
On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 7:02 AM
Brian Martin <bmm@...>
wrote:
No
problem, o1bigtenor. I want to know more about
Ethercat also. Go ahead with the discussion!
Does
an Ethercat drive network directly to the PC,
or is there still a motion control
interface/card?
?
My phrase is 'what I know I can
write on paper with big block letters and there is
still plenty of room?
inside the thimble, after
inserting the paper, for my finger' - - - - which
is to say - - precious little.?
AIUI its a ethernet
modification - - - to speed communications between
devices, specifically?
- - again, AIUI, for drives to
controls. There is a master info source at:?
my search engine (duckduckgo)
included this with that address:?
The?EtherCAT?technology overcomes the
system limitations of other Ethernet solutions:
The Ethernet packet is no longer received, then
interpreted and copied as process data at every
connection. Instead, the Ethernet frame is
processed on the fly.
So
- - - it would seem that the value is in high
speed connections.?
I'm
not sure at what level ethercat comes into its
own - - - haven't been able to?
find
anything like 'a noobs guide to ethercat' . As
usual one is expected to be?
at
least sorta of a master form the get go - - - -
docs are so tedious to write?
is
what needs to be remembered (NOT - - -imo!). So
the whole seems like it?
could
be useful - - - but exactly how - - - well - - -
that's why I was asking for?
(One
more technology to master)
From
the still quite befogged mind of?
|
Ok, it is running CypCut which has some nice features but I’d rather run Mach4! ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Barker Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 4:15 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Mach4 teach/record ? That is using step and direction if it is running the Chinese control software. I took that all out of my laser and have been putting in Mach4 with Ethercat :) . We are working on trying to talk to the Raycus fiber generator now ... That is NO fun to try and get support from them ______________________________ ? Brian Barker Engineering / Development ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions Livermore Falls, Maine (USA) ? Webpage: On 2/22/2022 2:21 PM, Brian Martin wrote: That mostly makes sense, I have a Senfeng 4KW laser that has a mixture Yaskawa and Delt drives on it. I will do some more reading on Ethercat. ? Thank-you! Brian Martin 
? ? Hi Guys, EtherCat is basically a distributed motion controller. So picture an ESS that? is in the drives as well as in the IO blocks . Its sort of like a Modbus setup but is all in realtime. You can mix and match hardware in an Ethercat system. So you can have drives from Yaskawa , Elmo, Omron , Delta , Leadshine and so on all on the same network. The drives could power Steppers or servos (the system has no idea what one it is..) You can also use IO from in the drives OR add IO modules as well. The Ethernet cable just goes from drive to drive and IO to IO. With the Kingstar / Mahc4 setup you can also to ABS encoders so you do not need to home the machine when you start it. This is REALLY cools because you don't need to have home switches or any of that other hardware. You can also read as much data about the drive as you would like. So you can see what current the motor is using for example . ? Now you can do this without the Kingstar software and add a hardware master like the board Vital systems has. This is a little more limiting but is much more flexible as to what PC it will work with. This is not the be all end all but it is the best way to make a high end system. It is the future... Well it really is here and the prices have been dropping like crazy. ? Okay I think that made more confusion than it helped ;) ? Thanks Brian ? ? ______________________________ ? Brian Barker Engineering / Development ArtSoft | Newfangled Solutions Livermore Falls, Maine (USA) Webpage: On 2/22/2022 10:11 AM, o1bigtenor wrote: ? On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 7:02 AM Brian Martin <bmm@...> wrote: No problem, o1bigtenor. I want to know more about Ethercat also. Go ahead with the discussion! Does an Ethercat drive network directly to the PC, or is there still a motion control interface/card? ?
My phrase is 'what I know I can write on paper with big block letters and there is still plenty of room? inside the thimble, after inserting the paper, for my finger' - - - - which is to say - - precious little.? AIUI its a ethernet modification - - - to speed communications between devices, specifically? - - again, AIUI, for drives to controls. There is a master info source at:? my search engine (duckduckgo) included this with that address:? The?EtherCAT?technology overcomes the system limitations of other Ethernet solutions: The Ethernet packet is no longer received, then interpreted and copied as process data at every connection. Instead, the Ethernet frame is processed on the fly. So - - - it would seem that the value is in high speed connections.? I'm not sure at what level ethercat comes into its own - - - haven't been able to? find anything like 'a noobs guide to ethercat' . As usual one is expected to be? at least sorta of a master form the get go - - - - docs are so tedious to write? is what needs to be remembered (NOT - - -imo!). So the whole seems like it? could be useful - - - but exactly how - - - well - - - that's why I was asking for? (One more technology to master) From the still quite befogged mind of?
|