开云体育

On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 2:51?PM Steve Stroh N8GNJ via groups.io
<steve.stroh@...> wrote:

Codec 2 is licensed as LGPL-2.1 -
The primary developer of Codec 2 was David Rowe VK5DGR.

M17 Protocol specification () is copyrighted 2024 by M17 Project.

And the primary driver is Wojciech Kaczmarski SP5WWP, who is here on
the list, happily.

Basically, that M17 is open is singlehandedly causing people who do live open source to pay attention to Amateur Radio because with M17 they can now do (VHF / UHF) Amateur Radio that’s compatible with their open source ethos.

That is bringing a lot of new people into Amateur Radio that previously had no interest.

Yeah, that’s too wordy for a proper elevator pitch, but “I didn’t have enough time to write a short note, so I wrote a long one”. (Sorry, old writer’s joke.)

No, but it's an important statement. Bringing new people in is
actually quite critical to the hobby, and people who *do* understand
"the codec and protocol are open and most code is under GPL/LGPL" is
the kind of people we need to keep the hobby moving forward. This is
good - I'm just trying to craft a pitch for those that *don't*
understand ... still leaning towards letting go of the rope. :-)


--
Peter Laws | VE[23]UWY / N5UWY | plaws0 gmail com | Travel by Train!

On 15/8/24 3:54 am, Peter Laws via groups.io wrote:

For those of us that do keep up (mostly): Source code is considered a
published work and can be copyrighted. Who owns the copyright on
CODEC2 Has Dave Whose-VK-call-escapes me patented any of the methods
within it (ideas can be patented)? If so, what license are they
released under? Same question, really, for the copyright.

There will be a copyright statement in the various source repositories
stating who owns the copyright of each piece of code.? You'll also find
that the code is licensed under an open source licence, such as GPL V2
or V3, LGPL or another OSS licence.? I'm not aware of any patents
relating to Codec2, though of course that doesn't mean there aren't any.

On selling to the majority of amateurs that *don't* keep up what is
the elevator pitch? DV exists and people are either using it or
shunning it. **Without talking about intellectual property** what is
the big deal about M17?

It's a bit like Linux.? M17 is built by the amateur community for the
amateur community.? People can play with the protocol.? M17 also had
fully formed data capabilities built into the base specification - not
just GNSS or messaging or images, but ANY arbitrary data that can be
shoved down the pipe.? Just an hour or so, there was a discussion of?
M17 "paging transceiver", which grew out of a comment about M17 being
able to run on a Gameboy Advance (which it can).

Linux started out as a Unix clone on x86 hardware, today it runs on a
dizzying array of platforms from light bulbs to supercomputers.? That's
the implications of open source - others can come along and bend it to
fit their wishes.

Like Linux, M17 has the potential to be scaled and use to fit the wishes
of hackers and developers, whether it be made to run on custom built
pocket pagers, game consoles, SDRs, repeaters in the cloud, smartwatches
(with Bluetooth attached transceivers), whatever!? We hams are supposed
to be communications experimenters and M17 allows us the opportunity to
further that aim, as well as attract more coders and other IT types, who
could contribute a lot more to our activities.


--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL

On 15/8/24 4:38 am, Ben Kuhn via groups.io wrote:

To users of other digital modes, M17 offers voice *and* data (yeah, so can D-Star), not just silly pictures from an overpriced webcam mic accessory and GPS positioning. Isn't vendor locked (again, it can be added to anything with a proper data port). It supports hotspots and all the other features digital users are used to. As far as ease of use is concerned, which is the selling point for the worst of the current crop of digi modes, that's an implementation detail that's up to the team adding M17 to a given radio's firmware. I think it's very important to get this right.

Current M17 implementations use an addressing scheme similar to D-STAR
(callsign based), but it's a lot more simplified and implicit
disconnection on destination change is built in.? And users can either
send to the desired destination or ALL to participate in a
conversation.? I know some D-STAR implementations appear to have
implicit disconnection (eg ircDDBGateway), but it's not as universal as
M17 can be.

Also, M17 is a mode where a duplex hotspot is a big advantage.? It's
super easy to switch from a busy reflector, just hit PTT with the
destination of your choice anytime!? I found this one out at a
demonstration in the field.? No waiting for a long winded over to
finish, the change happens as soon as the transmission is processed.

--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL

On 15/8/24 5:30 am, Peter Laws via groups.io wrote:

For your list, #1 and #2 are *not* wrong. I've not seen a DV <->
analog "reflector" yet, but there isn't a good reason there couldn't
be one. There are bridges between the other DV methods. My problem

There's heaps, I run several myself!

with reflectors, other than the silly name, is that they require
"on-shore" facilities. You can't, and likely won't ever be able to,
talk simplex between any of the 3 predominant DV methods plus analog.
Certainly both Yaesu and Icom (newer D-STAR modules) can switch
between analog and DV but I don't see that as helpful in any way. So
you need a box somewhere to transcode.

Yeah a multimode radio is needed for simplex? Bring on the CS7000 Plus. :)

*I* get the whole IP and licensing thing but most people including
most hams do not. I was trying to come up with a way to pitch M17 to
them without falling back on "it's open source!". That's true, of
course, but means nothing to a LOT of people not on this list. I just
think we need a pitch for them that avoids that issue.

It takes imagination to understand the full implications of open source,
and the people who understand have both the most to gain and the most to
contribute to the future here.

--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL

On 15/8/24 5:38 am, Peter Laws via groups.io wrote:

No, but it's an important statement. Bringing new people in is
actually quite critical to the hobby, and people who *do* understand
"the codec and protocol are open and most code is under GPL/LGPL" is
the kind of people we need to keep the hobby moving forward. This is
good - I'm just trying to craft a pitch for those that *don't*
understand ... still leaning towards letting go of the rope. :-)

They'll either fall behind or run after the bandwagon and jump on board
late, if the penny drops. :)

--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL

On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 6:29?PM Tony Langdon via groups.io
<vk3jed@...> wrote:

They'll either fall behind or run after the bandwagon and jump on board
late, if the penny drops. :)

Yeah, and more and more I get that it's not worth trying to sell M17
to folks who think it's OK to run XP on a public-facing device. :)

*I* get it (even as an #IcomFanboy/#DSTAR fan) I'm just looking for
ways to sell it to those that are not Of A Clue. And that may not be
worth it.


--
Peter Laws | VE[23]UWY / N5UWY | plaws0 gmail com | Travel by Train!

On 17/8/24 5:13 am, Peter Laws via groups.io wrote:

Yeah, and more and more I get that it's not worth trying to sell M17
to folks who think it's OK to run XP on a public-facing device. :)

Yeah, I don't even have any XP boxes in service, oldest Windows in
regular use here is 10.

*I* get it (even as an #IcomFanboy/#DSTAR fan) I'm just looking for
ways to sell it to those that are not Of A Clue. And that may not be
worth it.

I take the approach of get the message out there, show people what it's
all about and invite them to jump on board.? Also keep an eye out for
the traditional objections (so many over the years have complained about
proprietary components in other DV modes, back to the early days of
D-STAR.? These people are the perfect audience, because I can say "M17
is different, it's 100% open, vocoder and all". :)

Right now, the CS7000 is a key point of interest, because now we have an
off the shelf radio that can do M17 without needing hardware
modifications.? I personally have seen the difficulty of the MD380(UV)
approach.? I'm not equipped for fine SMD work and have fine motor and
other subtle issues that make the mods very risky (for the radio) for me
to do.? CS7000 solves that problem, albeit at a (monetary) price.

--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL