Re: Journalistic integrity
Sadly I have to disagree with Dave, someone who AFAIK is a straight shooter.? Perhaps part of the issue is the meaning of the word ethical and perhaps even the meaning of the word journalist.? I don't doubt that most journalists think they are ethical and that under a liberal (classical sense of the word) view of the word *ethical* they are.? But that's largely because they are rarely self-aware, they are insular, etc and the result is that most of what they write is little more than confirmation bias.? Reporting half the facts isn't journalism.? Below is an example from the NYTs...
Typical NYTs fake/biased news headline (below bottom).? The neutral headline would have been
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Or if you wanted a fake headline in the other direction...
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DEMOCRATS rejected a REPUBLICAN effort to meet President Trump’s demands for $2,000 payments.
Sent:?Thursday, December 24, 2020, 07:59:53 AM MST
Subject:?Breaking News: The fate of the stimulus deal remains in limbo after Republicans rejected a Democratic effort to meet President Trump’s demands for $2,000 payments.
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BREAKING NEWS
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Thursday, December 24, 2020 9:52 AM EST
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Seizing on Mr. Trump’s implicit threat to reject a $900 billion stimulus compromise, Democrats attempted to call his bluff with legislation to send Americans $2,000 checks. Republicans rejected the move and tried to counter with a motion to force their own changes to foreign policy spending.
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| You received this email because you signed up for NYTimes.com’s Breaking News Alerts.To stop receiving these emails,??or?. |
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Re: Journalistic integrity
Any more journalistic integrity is an oxymoron,.
Marvin
Actually, it was Dave Cahn who posted that.? I concur with him, though. None of my friends and relatives in journalism would write some of the things that we see snd hear on major news sources.? Editorials and news reporting should be separate.? However, this country and many others have long histories of newspapers publishing biased news reports.? Some egregious examples of bias were in small town newspapers in the old west. Ed
On Wednesday, December 23, 2020, David Smith < dvdcsmth@...> wrote:
// ?Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name. ?//
Thanks for that, Ed.? Until very recently, the traditional image of a journalist in America was?of a crusader against dishonesty and corruption and crime, an honest and principled and courageous man (usually it was a man) standing against a dishonest and immoral and often dangerous establishment.? That image has evaporated.? Starting very noticeably towards the middle of the twentieth century, many American traditional ideals began to fall apart.? People became openly cynical about the the image of the honest and courageous man.? Historians a hundred or two hundred years from now will understand why that happened better than we do because we’re still in the middle of it.? It became glaringly visible about seventy years ago, but it’s been progressively deepening ever since.
One obvious cause is television.? Television cheapened and sensationalized journalism.? Another is modern warfare - most conspicuously in the Second World War, the Korean war, and the Vietnam war - and all the moral contradictions it entails.? Another has been the industrialization of the news business.? Reporters and editors and even publishers had been recognizable local people.? The buck stopped with human beings with faces and voices, human beings who had a significant impact on the work they did.? It has since come to be widely understood that the modern journalist is nothing more a cog in a wheel, spinning at the sufferance and under the tight control of distant bosses whose ideal is a successful business. ?Another cause of the ongoing collapse of idealism in America is the democratization of higher education and the appropriation of colleges and universities as credentialing mechanisms for an upper class of workers increasingly alienated from the middle and lower classes.? There are many more causes, but these four - the cheapening of “the news” by television, an intense mechanization of warfare, the moving of journalism from the local and personal to the remote and impersonal, and a radical change in the function of colleges and universities - stand out for me.
So long as journalists are individual human beings writing their own copy, there will be some room for integrity; but so long as news outlets are largely profit-and-loss centers with little to no local responsibility, there will far less room for it than there was a hundred years ago.
—
?
That's "news story".? Sorry, my keyboard sticks.
Dave Cahn
In a message dated 12/23/2020 8:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, davecahn= [email protected] writes:
?
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, “journalistic integrity” 蝉丑辞耻濒诲苍’迟 be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it’s not.? Any nominations?
?
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Hi, Steve and anyone else I remember from so long ago!
Just checking in. I personally have left governmental critiques behind in favor of inventorying my jump bag, but it is good to hear from everyone during the Apocalypse!
Has anyone seen a zombie yet?? :)
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 3:17 PM Steve Andersen < beveaux@...> wrote:
A bit more about #3? Should school funding follow the student instead of the school??If there's reason for a student to be sent to a different school, it is most likely that it's because that school is in some way superior, and? the school from which the student is being sent, is in some way deficient. Shifting funds to the better school only increases the disparity between the schools. A very bad idea.
-- --
Steve Andersen
I really miss having?a democratic government.
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Re: Journalistic integrity
Actually, it was Dave Cahn who posted that.? I concur with him, though. None of my friends and relatives in journalism would write some of the things that we see snd hear on major news sources.? Editorials and news reporting should be separate.? However, this country and many others have long histories of newspapers publishing biased news reports.? Some egregious examples of bias were in small town newspapers in the old west. Ed
On Wednesday, December 23, 2020, David Smith < dvdcsmth@...> wrote:
// ?Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name. ?//
Thanks for that, Ed.? Until very recently, the traditional image of a journalist in America was?of a crusader against dishonesty and corruption and crime, an honest and principled and courageous man (usually it was a man) standing against a dishonest and immoral and often dangerous establishment.? That image has evaporated.? Starting very noticeably towards the middle of the twentieth century, many American traditional ideals began to fall apart.? People became openly cynical about the the image of the honest and courageous man.? Historians a hundred or two hundred years from now will understand why that happened better than we do because we’re still in the middle of it.? It became glaringly visible about seventy years ago, but it’s been progressively deepening ever since.
One obvious cause is television.? Television cheapened and sensationalized journalism.? Another is modern warfare - most conspicuously in the Second World War, the Korean war, and the Vietnam war - and all the moral contradictions it entails.? Another has been the industrialization of the news business.? Reporters and editors and even publishers had been recognizable local people.? The buck stopped with human beings with faces and voices, human beings who had a significant impact on the work they did.? It has since come to be widely understood that the modern journalist is nothing more a cog in a wheel, spinning at the sufferance and under the tight control of distant bosses whose ideal is a successful business. ?Another cause of the ongoing collapse of idealism in America is the democratization of higher education and the appropriation of colleges and universities as credentialing mechanisms for an upper class of workers increasingly alienated from the middle and lower classes.? There are many more causes, but these four - the cheapening of “the news” by television, an intense mechanization of warfare, the moving of journalism from the local and personal to the remote and impersonal, and a radical change in the function of colleges and universities - stand out for me.
So long as journalists are individual human beings writing their own copy, there will be some room for integrity; but so long as news outlets are largely profit-and-loss centers with little to no local responsibility, there will far less room for it than there was a hundred years ago.
—
?
That's "news story".? Sorry, my keyboard sticks.
Dave Cahn
In a message dated 12/23/2020 8:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, davecahn= [email protected] writes:
?
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, “journalistic integrity” 蝉丑辞耻濒诲苍’迟 be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it’s not.? Any nominations?
?
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Re: Journalistic integrity
// ?Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name. ?//
Thanks for that, Ed. ?Until very recently, the traditional image of a journalist in America was?of a crusader against dishonesty and corruption and crime, an honest and principled and courageous man (usually it was a man) standing against a dishonest and immoral and often dangerous establishment. ?That image has evaporated. ?Starting very noticeably towards the middle of the twentieth century, many American traditional ideals began to fall apart. ?People became openly cynical about the the image of the honest and courageous man. ?Historians a hundred or two hundred years from now will understand why that happened better than we do because we’re still in the middle of it. ?It became glaringly visible about seventy years ago, but it’s been progressively deepening ever since.
One obvious cause is television. ?Television cheapened and sensationalized journalism. ?Another is modern warfare - most conspicuously in the Second World War, the Korean war, and the Vietnam war - and all the moral contradictions it entails. ?Another has been the industrialization of the news business. ?Reporters and editors and even publishers had been recognizable local people. ?The buck stopped with human beings with faces and voices, human beings who had a significant impact on the work they did. ?It has since come to be widely understood that the modern journalist is nothing more a cog in a wheel, spinning at the sufferance and under the tight control of distant bosses whose ideal is a successful business. ?Another cause of the ongoing collapse of idealism in America is the democratization of higher education and the appropriation of colleges and universities as credentialing mechanisms for an upper class of workers increasingly alienated from the middle and lower classes. ?There are many more causes, but these four - the cheapening of “the news” by television, an intense mechanization of warfare, the moving of journalism from the local and personal to the remote and impersonal, and a radical change in the function of colleges and universities - stand out for me.
So long as journalists are individual human beings writing their own copy, there will be some room for integrity; but so long as news outlets are largely profit-and-loss centers with little to no local responsibility, there will far less room for it than there was a hundred years ago.
—
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 23, 2020, at 8:48 PM, DAVE CAHN via groups.io <davecahn@...> wrote:
?
That's "news story".? Sorry, my keyboard sticks.
Dave Cahn
In a message dated 12/23/2020 8:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, davecahn@... writes:
?
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
On Dec 20, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, “journalistic integrity” 蝉丑辞耻濒诲苍’迟 be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it’s not. ?Any nominations?
?
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Re: Journalistic integrity
That's "news story".? Sorry, my keyboard sticks.
Dave Cahn
In a message dated 12/23/2020 8:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, davecahn@... writes:
?
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
On Dec 20, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, “journalistic integrity” 蝉丑辞耻濒诲苍’迟 be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it’s not. ?Any nominations?
?
|
Re: Journalistic integrity
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
On Dec 20, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, “journalistic integrity” 蝉丑辞耻濒诲苍’迟 be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it’s not. ?Any nominations?
?
|
Re: Journalistic integrity
On Dec 20, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
Of course, ideally, “journalistic integrity” 蝉丑辞耻濒诲苍’迟 be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it’s not. ?Any nominations?
—
|
Re: Journalistic integrity
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
|
Re: BLM is just like any other struggling org..
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On Dec 19, 2020, at 2:13 PM, Ed Lomas <relomas2@...> wrote:
?....autocratic leadership, questions about where all the money went, why can't they behave like other anarchists?
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BLM is just like any other struggling org..
....autocratic leadership, questions about where all the money went, why can't they behave like other anarchists?
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Not on Colbert: " But this is how Colbert brought up the Hunter Biden scandal: “You know that the people who want to make hay here in Washington are going to try to use your adult son as a cudgel against you. How do you feel about that and what do you have to say to those people?”
“I’m not concerned about any accusations that have been made against him. It’s used to get to me,” Biden responded. “And he’s a grown man. He is the smartest man I know, I mean, in pure intellectual capacity. And as long as he’s good, we’re good.”
Colbert kept on the topic — to try to make Biden look even more the victim.
“As a father, I understand that and I admire that. But in terms of your job as president, can you reach across the aisle to people who will be using this as an attack on you when it is such a personal attack because it’s about family?”
“If it benefits the country, yes. I really mean it,” Biden said, to which the fawning Colbert responded, “You’re a better man than I. I’m not sure if I could do that.”
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Is this a real death due to COVID or overcounting
Over counting, just like in the rest homes.
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2. Certain light spectrums kill COVID in the air better than others.
Is there a question here? ?Elko Walmart had a robot that shined light on all the merchandise as it wandered the aisles. ?It seemed like a good idea; sterilizing everything with UV to kill coronavirus, but it turned out to be an inventory management tool to replace a couple of low-paid workers, and that wasn’t even effective, so they quit using the robot.
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3.? Did you send Christmas? / holiday cards this year
I’m working on it!
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4.? Have you received any more or less cards this year than last
Fewer so far, but we have a week to go.
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5.? Are you going to gather with family and/or friends for Christmas dinner?
Just the two of us and the cats. ?Our usual hosts are going to have a belated XMas party this spring, god willing.
Ed
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I get the name at the top of the post as well, both on my IPhone and on my laptop and on my tablet.? Those are all Apple products, though, and if you have something else, perhaps you get a different view.
Ed
I get the sender info at the top of the page.
De
On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 1:31:18 AM EST, DAVE CAHN via <davecahn= [email protected]> wrote:
If this group is going to be just another place to debate national and other political issues with no close relationship to Mensa, I'm out of here.? I'll watch for a week or two to decide and leave it up to the group's administrator(s) to decide what this group is meant to be and how to make it so.
?
BTW, unlike Yahoo, does not seem to put the sender's/poster's name at the end of a post, so please sign your posts, including your last name.? There are many Daves or Eds, for example..
?
Thank you.
?
Dave Cahn
Upper Marlboro, Maryland
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I get the sender info at the top of the page.
De
On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 1:31:18 AM EST, DAVE CAHN via groups.io <davecahn@...> wrote:
If this group is going to be just another place to debate national and other political issues with no close relationship to Mensa, I'm out of here.? I'll watch for a week or two to decide and leave it up to the group's administrator(s) to decide what this group is meant to be and how to make it so.
?
BTW, unlike Yahoo, groups.io does not seem to put the sender's/poster's name at the end of a post, so please sign your posts, including your last name.? There are many Daves or Eds, for example..
?
Thank you.
?
Dave Cahn
Upper Marlboro, Maryland
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Sorry folks, I thought I was replying to a comment on MPolM, not M-Powered. ?
This site (M-Powered) has always been for any kind of discussion. ?
The late Christian Haerle founded M-Powered about 15 years ago on Yahoo Groups after clashing with Neal Vonada on M-Positive over some issue, and until Neal passed, both sites were quite active.
Ed
On Thursday, December 17, 2020, Ed Lomas via <relomas2= [email protected]> wrote: No, this site is for politics within Mensa.? Occasionally someone may post a general discussion item here by mistake, since PhilosophicalM and M-Powered are also under the same umbrella and ?I’ve done it myself.? If someone wants to discuss American politics, M-Powered would be the most appropriate site.Ed On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, DAVE CAHN via <davecahn= [email protected]> wrote:
If this group is going to be just another place to debate national and other political issues with no close relationship to Mensa, I'm out of here.? I'll watch for a week or two to decide and leave it up to the group's administrator(s) to decide what this group is meant to be and how to make it so.
?
BTW, unlike Yahoo, does not seem to put the sender's/poster's name at the end of a post, so please sign your posts, including your last name.? There are many Daves or Eds, for example..
?
Thank you.
?
Dave Cahn
Upper Marlboro, Maryland
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No, this site is for politics within Mensa.? Occasionally someone may post a general discussion item here by mistake, since PhilosophicalM and M-Powered are also under the same umbrella and ?I’ve done it myself.? If someone wants to discuss American politics, M-Powered would be the most appropriate site. Ed
On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, DAVE CAHN via <davecahn= [email protected]> wrote:
If this group is going to be just another place to debate national and other political issues with no close relationship to Mensa, I'm out of here.? I'll watch for a week or two to decide and leave it up to the group's administrator(s) to decide what this group is meant to be and how to make it so.
?
BTW, unlike Yahoo, does not seem to put the sender's/poster's name at the end of a post, so please sign your posts, including your last name.? There are many Daves or Eds, for example..
?
Thank you.
?
Dave Cahn
Upper Marlboro, Maryland
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? // ?If this group is going to be just another place to debate national and other political issues with no close relationship to Mensa, I'm out of here.? I'll watch for a week or two to decide and leave it up to the group's administrator(s) to decide what this group is meant to be and how to make it so. ?//
What do *you* want it to be, Dave? ?As a moderator, I have no specific direction in mind. ?As far as I’m concerned, it’s an open forum.??Though I confess to a bias against strict moderation, I’m open to all ideas.??Let us know what *you’re* looking for. ?The same goes, by the way, for *anyone* who has thoughts on the issue.
?
// ?BTW, unlike Yahoo,?groups.io?does not seem to put the sender's/poster's name at the end of a post, so please sign your posts, including your last name.? There are many Daves or Eds, for example.. ?//
Interesting. ?Thanks for noting that. ?I’ll start signing posts. ?What platform are you using to read us? ?I’m reading your message in Apple mail on an iPad, and your name is clearly posted at the top (see attachment).
Best wishes, David Smith, Ohio
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 17, 2020, at 1:31 AM, DAVE CAHN via groups.io <davecahn@...> wrote:
If this group is going to be just another place to debate national and other political issues with no close relationship to Mensa, I'm out of here.? I'll watch for a week or two to decide and leave it up to the group's administrator(s) to decide what this group is meant to be and how to make it so.
?
BTW, unlike Yahoo, groups.io does not seem to put the sender's/poster's name at the end of a post, so please sign your posts, including your last name.? There are many Daves or Eds, for example..
?
Thank you.
?
Dave Cahn
Upper Marlboro, Maryland
|
If this group is going to be just another place to debate national and other political issues with no close relationship to Mensa, I'm out of here.? I'll watch for a week or two to decide and leave it up to the group's administrator(s) to decide what this group is meant to be and how to make it so.
?
BTW, unlike Yahoo, groups.io does not seem to put the sender's/poster's name at the end of a post, so please sign your posts, including your last name.? There are many Daves or Eds, for example..
?
Thank you.
?
Dave Cahn
Upper Marlboro, Maryland
|
Re: San Francisco goes nuts
?
The core of what’s happening now is there, I feel sure. ?A great many people have had their brains addled by a combination of factors, but one vital ingredient surely is a lamentable misunderstanding of what thinking and learning are about.
An analogy is children playing with fire. ?A metaphor may be The Sorcerer’s Apprentice:
—
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On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Ed Lomas <relomas2@...> wrote:
?It sounds like why Churchill was a poor student whose higher education was 18 months at Sandhurst but turned out to be a prolific writer, among other things. Ed On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, David Smith < david.smith.mpowered@...> wrote:
I’ve alway remembered a quote from Bertrand Russell, from a Ved Mehta article in the New Yorker.? I probably have a word or three wrong, but it was very close to: ?“A first rate education is fine for the right kind of people, but for others, it drives them insular and gaga.” ?At any rate, I’m pretty sure of the words “it drives them insular and gaga.”
(Interesting that spell check insisted on capitalizing “gaga”.)
Ah, I found it! ? Here’s the URL:
Something about the format makes copying the text impossible, so here’s a screen print.? Enjoy:
— ?
Nothing new, sadly.? The inmates have gone to university and taken over the asylum.? One only wonders how long this will last and how far it can possibly go.
Apparently, a conjunction of events in modern culture has driven a critical number of people out of their minds.? Literally.? Their brains have simply failed under the stress.
— On Dec 16, 2020, at 10:29 AM, Ed Lomas <relomas2@...> wrote:
?Names of Lincoln and California's most esteemed politician both stripped from public buildings because they practiced racism:
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David Smith
DAVE CAHN