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With my new GM811G, I have been working through setup details. When the scope came, we had three clear nights and I was able to be out, getting familiar with the new mount.?I love it!!

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My experience and equipment: I’m still pretty new at visual work and brand new at AP.??I am on my second scope and mount, having swapped out a TV 100 ED doublet for an ES 127 triplet 2 months ago, and an ieq30 for a GM811G two weeks ago. Lots to learn on the new scope and mount. Then my ASIAIR Pro (AAP) and my ASI290mm-mini and my?ZWO 30mm mini Guide Scope all arrived, and I’ve been working on connecting them?to my Gemini 2 and a GL-iNet Mango mini router.?I think it works. Whew!

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What I would love to do is practice, practice, practice. But the skies are likely to stay cloudy for more weeks, maybe all next month.?

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Q: Let’s say I have more weeks of cloudy weather, and I want to hit the ground running when the skies clear. What can I do now that will make both viewing and beginning AP easier then?

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My goals by summer:?

·??????Continue visual observing. Been using “left Turn…” and SkySafari+ to get around with my goto. I want to learn the constellations and the sky much better.

·??????Learn my setup routine both local (often) and remote (occasional).??The GM811G seems miles deep in its competencies, and there is a lot to explore

·??????Learn to PA and guide with the ASIair Pro, camera and scope.?

·??????Learn how to use my Fuji XT3 on my mount for both widefield (with fuji lenses) and deep sky (through my scope). I have attachments.

I know that processing is a whole other area that lies in the future, but I’d rather leave it alone for now and develop some competence with what I have.?

What can I practice with my scope and mount setup now that can get me ready for clear skies when they come? What do you all do on cloudy weeks when you want to do something to build your skills???Any advice would be welcome!!

Geoff Chapman

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Geoff,

So many things to suggest here for AP:

-Go to the??website and read as much as possible to get acquainted with the mount controller
-Go to the Losmandy channel on YouTube and watch all the videos, especially how to create a star model and sync for accuracy.
-Get a good AP book such as The Deep Sky Imaging Primer by Charles Bracken. He will show you all the steps from capture to final processing
-Learn all about PHD2 and how to connect to mount and guide scope
-Decide on your capture software. I am a fan of Sequence Generator Pro but NINA is a pretty good free one
-Cloudy nights are a good time to collect your bias and dark frames and start building a Library of files. They should be taken at the same temperature as when you collect the light frames.
-Learn about collecting flat frames after your imaging session to remove dust motes, vignetting and other optical defects from your lights. I never got anything good with sky flats and use a light tracing panel covered with a sheet of translucent white acrylic sheet.
-If you go to the Astro Imaging Channel on YouTube, there are hundred of videos on AP and related topics
-Think about the processing software you want to use. PixInsight is very popular, also Photoshop and some others
-You may want to get a dedicated astro camera or astro-modify you DSLR (but voids warrantee!)

Get ready to go down the rabbit hole.

Best of luck,

John

Join the ASIAIR and ASIAIR Pro user groups on Facebook. Lots of excellent help and assistance. The AAP has really been a game changer for me, getting me imaging whenever the weather allows.

Make sure the epoch on the mount is set to “current” not J2000. Took me weeks to figure this out after my AAP would never properly plate solve and Centre targets! The AAP uses know (current) Epoch.

Start with Dec and RA aggressiveness of +45 and calibration figures of 500, 300 and 300 for guiding the HM-8 with the AAP, this should give you a reasonable starting point (again, this took me a while to sort and lots of forum surfing!)

Back up the AAP SD card immediately. If it corrupts without backup, it’s a bit of a pain to sort out with ZWO by all accounts.

I can’t really help with other stuff, but I have been using the AAP with Gemini 1 for 5-6 months now so have experience. There do not seem to be many ASP and Gemini users around?

Bryn

I’ll also add, that my routine for using the AAP with the Gemini 1 is as follows, which might help?

- Power up AAP
- Power on Gemini
- Focus using AAP (I also have an EAF)
- Cold start Gemini (I set up each night)
- set location from stored location if cold start lat long incorrect (check mount time is correct UTC no DST)
- restart Gemini 1 (if changed location)
- connect to mount is AAP
- Undertake PA process in AAP and mount bolts
- Slew to target with AAP
- take preview picture (5 secs)
- plate solve and Centre in AAP (just to ensure the target is centred)
- start looping and guide process in AAP (I always calibrate every time as I setup each time)
- check mount tracking is on (should be automatic)
- Start imaging using auto run in AAP.
- sit in the warm house and monitor on your phone or tablet!

Hope this helps. Took me a while to get a routine that consistently worked with the ASP and Gemini 1. I suspect Gemini 2 isn’t too different.

Bryn

John,
Thanks for the reply. ?I am onto the first three suggestions, and have been digging in. Bracken's book, though, assume a lot of AP knowledge that I don't yet have. On the rest of your list, they will go into my work later this year, I suspect. ?Right now I's still working on learning the mount.?

PA has been especially challenging; I am a Mac guy, and stubborn about it, and not eager to host a windows via parallels or boot camp. ?So I suspect ASCOM and NINA are off my list, as are the most popular devices for PA. And my camera is a Fuji XT3, and I'm not ready to give up on it. So I step into the batter's box with two strikes, I've been told. ?But I am going to give it a run.

So with PA, I am working to learn the polar scope (but I am still in a window of returns and want to know if I can do without it), the Gemini PA routine, and Asiair Pro w. a guide scope. I am not sure I can get any further on this till I get some clear nights. Anything I can do indoors on PA?

When I get that solved, I plan to learn guiding... and then I hope to go after the Orion Nebula with my Fuji, both wide field and through my scope. I suspect that all that will give me a good idea of how much I don't know and where to go next... ?Anything I can do to learn guiding indoors??

Bryn, thanks to you also for the notes on the AAP setup and your workflow list. ?Very helpful; most of that is something I have not yet worked through, and some of the setup items you list can clearly be done indoors. And I suspect I can practice a number of the items on your workflow list inside. And then on my next clear nights... ?Good to have a list to work from! ?

I think I have noticed a half dozen or dozen AAP/Gemini users (as I surf the Gemini2 and Losmandy user groups, and on CN and Asiair Pro forums). There seem to be enough to benefit from what others are doing. Brian's Woodland Hills video on the Mango mini-router gave me what I needed to make the key connections, and there were an armful of detailed posts linking that to the AAP. ?They are out there, I think.?

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Geoff,

A couple of things:

-Bracken's book is for beginners, ergo, it's a "Primer". It's a nice starting point where all the info is in one place. I'm sure there are many other authors out there too.

-For PA,? the polar scopes are giving way to the PoleMaster cameras which will do the same thing electronically with easy step by step software. There is an adapter that fits it into the polar finder threads. Or you can use your guide scope in conjunction with the SharpCap PA routine, which many like since its cheap software and does not require purchase of a another camera. There is also an iPhone app called PS Align which will show the relationship of Polaris to the true NCP from your location.

-If you are are Mac user (I am not) you can set up a Windows virtual machine that will use ASCOM drivers. Dylan O'Donnell has a YouTube video about this on his Star Stuff YouTube channel. And then there is the ALPACA software that serves in place of, or connects to ASCOM from Macs (sorry never used it). A guy named Bob Denny is one of the architects of that software and I'm sure you'll be able to find him online.

Good luck. Sounds like you are starting with a nice mount which is really the one a the best foundations for any AP setup.

Good luck!

John

Geoff,

I wouldn’t worry about polar alignment if using the AAP as the AAP has a pretty good routine and easy to follow. It uses the primary scope and camera so no additional kit needed.?

I can get a good enough polar alignment for 10 min guided subs (I usually do 5mins though) in 2-3 minutes most nights. It also means no bending down or kneeling on concrete or in puddles to crane your head into a polar scope! Always a bonus!

Enjoy

Bryn

On 1/28/2021 10:28 PM, geoffchapman47@... wrote:

PA has been especially challenging; I am a Mac guy, and stubborn about it, and not eager to host a windows via parallels or boot camp. ?So I suspect ASCOM and NINA are off my list, as are the most popular devices for PA. And my camera is a Fuji XT3, and I'm not ready to give up on it. So I step into the batter's box with two strikes, I've been told. ?But I am going to give it a run.

How about a compromise...... put a cheap (like $200) Windows mini-PC at the scope and let it host all the Windows specific programs you need. Then use your Mac to connect to it via remote desktop either wired or WiFi. ??

Paul

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Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
pgoelz@...
www.pgoelz.com

There's only so much you can do without the sky. But you can admire and practice running your mount.
Just don't mess with it. Don't take it apart to look at the parts. Don't think you can improve it, because you can't.

It is too bad you decided to hobble yourself with stubbornness about your Apple and unwillingness to open your mind to other possibilities. Good luck with that.
Going into my adventure with Astro Imaging, one of my early check points was computer platforms. I was willing to change to Apple if it was a better way. It wasn't. So I stuck with my PC.
Glad I did, because you will find yourself hobbled.
But if you are stubborn, you'll find various work arounds that you might get to work.
Your GM811G will work great in spite of you cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I think Paul gave you the best advice above.

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SonnyE


(I suggest viewed in full screen)

Have you looked at the KStars/EKOS/INDI suite on the Mac?? EKOS has a polar alignment routine that I use (on Linux).? It is also the only astro capture software that I use.

*Thanks again* to all you guys for your input and suggestions.??A few notes:

·??????I did look at the Mac client for PoleMaster, last updated in 2018 as far as I could tell, and saw multiple complaints on its performance… and it would mean another device… Wouldn’t want to spend another $300 to find out it just adds a new layer of problems.

·??????I got out two nights ago under unexpectedly(!!) clear skies for several hours. I was finally able to work on two PA routines – using the Losmandy polar scope with the PS Align app, and working the AAP PA with my guide scope (including a bug workaround - ‘have to rotate my OTA *with the HC* 60° since AAP will only rotate it 8°’). Both worked very well, and using the PS Align reticle orientation off my Apple watch made that method *very fast*. I have a third PA method w/in reach on the G2 HC, which I haven’t yet tried.

·??????I’m aware that I could gain access to ASCOM drivers off a Mac virtual machine, and glad to know I could put a Windows mini-PC on my OTA if I am forced to repent of my stubbornness (wouldn’t be the first time!). But it seems like the?KStars/EKOS/INDI suite is worth exploring for a while, and I would love to be free of a laptop and drive my viewing and capture sessions off an iPad, and several on and off this thread are doing the same thing and have helpfully offered assistance along the way (many thanks!!)

·??????Practicing my setup and workflow inside has been very helpful for me with the new mount and its G2 HC, the AAP devices, and my Fuji XT3. And then having a clear night to do it outside was good. Even got some first photos of the Orion Nebula, and made a list of things to work on while I wait for the next clear night. Those first photos were so sweet! ;-)

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I have a further thought and a question…

·??????Thought: On Windows/Mac. In my own career I went to Mac about 25 years ago, often as the only one on the team, and made it work. I’ve appreciated the Apple ecosystem and happily live in it, recently upgrading to a new M1 MacBook. B/c I have always found ways to make it work, and b/c I have so much already invested in that ecosystem, I am willing to try and make it work again. Along the way am glad to give a little more incentive to the astronomy developers to make things work across platforms.??I don’t mind workarounds, am glad for helpful hints and don't mind supportive cautions...?

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·??????Question: If you go down the AP rabbit hole, do you have to go all the way to the bottom???I was talking to a vendor this past week, and we got into this discussion. He described his own observatory to me, well supplied with devices and very good OTA’s, all set up and ready to go.??Then he told me that these days when he goes out and rolls back the roof, he doesn’t turn anything on. He just pulls up a lawn chair and grabs a set of binoculars and sits back and looks up. No scopes, no capture, no post- processing… His comment was that years ago he didn’t get into this in order to spend hours and hours on setup, capture and post-processing. He got into it to look heavenward. Yep, I thought, me too. There is something about the immediacy of being out under the stars that I treasure, and do not want to lose to hours working with setups and a computer...?

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So a question: Can I get into AP a ‘little bit’, still spending most of my time looking up? I realize that the end product (AP photos) would suffer, but my enjoyment (speaking of my own interests here and realizing that others have very different interests) will likely be linked to the time I spend outdoors. Any suggestions for stopping places on the journey down the rabbit hole?

Geoff,

I think you will find once you get your equipment and capture software in order and you get familiar with the routines, the setup will work for the entire night without much intervention. It all leads to automation, and the computer can run through multiple targets and collect all your data until dawn with almost no checking. Then you are free to do whatever else you want, visual with binoculars, watch for meteors or satellites, or whatever you care to. It takes a while to learn all this, but that can be your end result. Often I am inside processing previous nights' data, while the rig is out in the yard whirling away.

Clear Skies,

John

Geoff,

This is basically what the AAP does for me. 15-20 mins after looking up and seeing clear skies, my mount is out of the garage, the telescope attached, Polar Aligned, target selected and centred and the imaging run started and back in the house doing other things (your other things could be looking up!)

without a permanent set up, I think this is as fast as you can get!

I also note that you manually slew to get 60 degrees rotation for polar alignment. I had similar problems, so generally have done PA without connecting the mount and rotated the mount manually got PA, then returned to home manually to home after PA, then connected the mount and slewed to target using AAP. Recently though, I have connected the mount at startup and used the PA routine in AAP to slew without issue.

Finally, I’m also a Mac user. Mac Observatory?
has all the information you’ll need to do AP with a Mac. However, if you use the AAP, there is only need to use a Mac to process any images, you do not need an external computer at all to capture with the AAP, only a smart phone or tablet.

hope this is of use

On 2/1/2021 6:25 AM, Bryn Evans via groups.io wrote:

This is basically what the AAP does for me. 15-20 mins after looking up and seeing clear skies, my mount is out of the garage, the telescope attached, Polar Aligned, target selected and centred and the imaging run started and back in the house doing other things (your other things could be looking up!)
without a permanent set up, I think this is as fast as you can get!

Just FWIW..... I also have a portable setup that I carry from the garage to the driveway to image. I use a $200 quad core mini-PC (from Amazon) at the scope and operate the scope and cameras remotely over WiFi, same as the AAP. The mini-PC runs off the same 12V 5A supply that powers the scope and cameras. Like you, I can be set up and imaging in 10-15 minutes. Usually more like 10 unless I have to wait for full dark after setting up and polar aligning.

I considered the AAP.... it seemed like a cool idea. But it was more expensive than a mini-PC and far less flexible. The mini-PC plus PHD2 and image acquisition software (I use NINA) will do everything the AAP can do and a lot more because it can run any Windows program.

I run the mini-PC headless, and velcroed to the underside of the Gemini 2 controller on my GM811 (it is about the same footprint). When I need local display (like when polar aligning with Polemaster) I just bring my laptop out to the scope and open a remote desktop instance. Works great. The mini-PC handles everything.... polar alignment, guiding, image acquisition and temporary storage, ethernet (or USB if desired) to the mount, Stellarium (with scope control if needed). Because remote comms are over WiFi, the only cable I have is a 120V extension cord to the scope. But since everything runs off 12VDC, it could easily be battery operated. Works great.

Paul

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Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
pgoelz@...
www.pgoelz.com

I got into this to take pictures of things (DSO Nebula specifically) about 6 years ago.
Knowing it was all brand new to me, I also got a very modest amount of visual aids like a tiny eyepiece set, a Barlow's, and stuff for visual use.
I expected a long learning curve, but due to my mistakes in trusting names I knew from ancient history, I got several lemons to work with. My learning curve had boulders rolling down it.
Eventually, I made lemonade out of the garbage I was sold, and a great Friend loaned, then sold me the AP camera I am still using today.
But, making silk purses out of sow's ears has always been a forte of mine, and was with Astro Imaging.

Start with visual. You won't need anything more than your GM811G. It has everything in the package for great successes. After you get your eyes full of stars and planets, you can explore the AP side of things if you want to.
But unless you have the patience of Job, don't barrel in with AP.
Visual can be very rewarding in itself. And it is very forgiving. AP takes a lot more, and is a lot more critical.
But if you have a camera (DSLR, or even a Cell Phone camera) you can take pictures of what you'll see. If you decide to use your cell phone, get a good, easily adjustable mount for it. I got a relatively simple one and it was a fight to get it centered on the eyepiece. But you can take pictures that way.
Next was my DSLR. But during the months of learning what equipment I needed to do imaging, I quickly realized I was going to need a dedicated Astronomy camera. Otherwise I would rapidly wear out my DSLR which is really made for taking pictures on the Earth, and not of Space. Oh, I've used it on occasion, but it is not the Bread and Butter of my imaging. And it takes a monstrously large FOV (field of view) on an object. I took a picture of the Ring Nebula with my DSLR and if I didn't know what I was looking for, a pale blue ring, I likely never would have found it in the vast field of stars.

But starting out, Polar Alignment is important. For AP it is critical. And best done via your computer, with the camera you plan to image with.
For visual, your eyes and brain do a lot of compensating while you are learning. For visual, you don't have to worry about guiding. Because your Gemini II will track your 811 with the night sky.
So you can ease into the waters, and gently immerse yourself into Astronomy.

Right now, while waiting out the obligatory cloudy skies all new equipment seems to come with, so you can have some cloudless sky to dream with.
I use Stellarium, and have for years now with my Chinese Junk Mount, and now with my GM811GHD forever Mount, to guide me to all objects great and small. It is a perfect Planetarium and control program.
Once you learn it, and have it set-up for your 811, you can use it to take you to anything you can see in your sky.
And... you can run your 811 right there in your home regardless of the clouds!?
Great practice during crappy sky nights.
Best is it specifically has info for Mac users, too. See the Users Guide.

Scotts personal advice to me was "Don't mess with it, just use your new mount."?
That means do NOT take it apart. Every mount that ships from Losmandy has been hand tuned to function right out of the box.
We, as owners, need to learn a few things and forget the old things that we did to make our first mounts work.

Get Stellarium and start having fun with your 811 and Mac-arony.

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SonnyE


(I suggest viewed in full screen)