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Hello everybody,

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I'm starting again astrophotography after 3 years of stop (kid was born - I needed to sleep) and I'm looking now for a new mount with adequate capacity.

I was originally considering the iOptron CEM70, until I ended up in the Losmandy's page where I "found" the new G11. I have to confess, my heart has been stolen. But I still have to sort out a couple of questions before pulling the trigger.

1) Does anybody had the chance to use both mounts (CEM70 and G11) and can please provide a comparison to me? Specifically I'm looking into tracking performances.

2) Does the G11 have any sort of cable management feature? Like a through the mount cabling? In the Losmandy's page I see only few pictures and I can't tell too much from them.

3) Is the DEC axis equipped with at least 1x DC socket?

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Thank you in advance - Luca

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 04:50 PM, Luca Fumagalli wrote:

Hello everybody,

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I'm starting again astrophotography after 3 years of stop (kid was born - I needed to sleep) and I'm looking now for a new mount with adequate capacity.

I was originally considering the iOptron CEM70, until I ended up in the Losmandy's page where I "found" the new G11. I have to confess, my heart has been stolen. But I still have to sort out a couple of questions before pulling the trigger.

1) Does anybody had the chance to use both mounts (CEM70 and G11) and can please provide a comparison to me? Specifically I'm looking into tracking performances.

2) Does the G11 have any sort of cable management feature? Like a through the mount cabling? In the Losmandy's page I see only few pictures and I can't tell too much from them.

3) Is the DEC axis equipped with at least 1x DC socket?

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Thank you in advance - Luca

Hi Luca,

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#1??I have used the iOptron CEM60 which is the predecessor to the CEM70, they are basically the same mount but for some reason rated for a fictional higher payload weight.? It should tell you something that I currently own 3 Losmandy mounts and until recently owned 4, all with a purpose.? Based on my experience and others with iOptron I would never buy another iOptron mount.??

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#2? No, wisely Losmandy lacks any cable management that you don't implement on your own.? I have no idea why people think cable management is a must have feature for mounts. There is no cable managed mount or saddle with integral USB ports or hub sold that will remain clean if it is going to be used for imaging.? They lack adequate ports for modern imaging rigs and are not managed.? You should also know that the iOptron mounts with USB ports have a long and unpleasant history of their USB hubs and ports crippling their mounts due to the way iOptron maximized USB chip pins and routed the unprotected cables to their integrated ports. IME it much more flexible and forward looking to buy a managed and powered USB hub and hang it under your OTA. These can also be replaced and upgraded when you outgrow them or comm standards change. With an integrated cable managed mount you are just out of luck and god help you if the hub or cable goes down and you need parts because many use the same USB chips to talk to their mount controller and hand set.?

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#3? No. Losmandy mounts have zero cable integrated management and the same issues apply to DC power ports. See #2.? ? ? ??

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Something you might want to consider is that unlike any other mounts being sold today Losmandy is still selling, supporting and developing their mounts based on the original design first released over 32 years ago. Every Losmandy G11 and GM8 sold can be updated to the current production specs and are capable of guided tracking well below 0.5" PE. My own Losmandy G11G is over 20 years old and was updated by Scott Losmandy at the shop in Burbank several years ago. On a good night the total guided PE is in the range of 0.40"- 0.32" seconds. This is likely better than most people need unless you are imaging beyond 1,600mm fl under perfectly still skies.?

Losmandy mounts are the only mounts that are fully supported even purchased used! I don't know where you are located but find a group of serious imagers and you will find many using Losmandy mounts with great success. Sure there are some bad Losmandy mounts out there, I have fixed them for other people, but they have been poorly maintained and not well understood by the owners and are usually old, used and abused. BUT, they can be brought back to life and up to spec and no other mounts can make that claim.? ? ?

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Hey Luca,

I have never used an iOptron mount. I was thinking about a CEM70 at one point and opted for the G11 and I haven't looked back. I agree with all of Chip's points.

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As far as cable management goes, I use a mount-side NUC computer to run all mount control software with a Pegasus Powerbox to control mount and USB. I have a single power cable and a single USB cable to the Powerboat. These cables are routed through sleeves to give them some shape/stiffness. They float outside the motion of the mount and do not catch on the mount at any position in the range of motion. For me, this is as effective as any through-the-mount cabling could be.

as for guiding accuracy, this is what is possible (see below) after learning how to adjust your mount appropriately ?and utilizing PEC. Chip's guiding figures are realistic but consider that he is an expert operator who has finely tuned his craft. I would wager that you could at least match a CEM70 performance with guiding and then add that a G11 is meant to be user serviceable, as compared to a CEM70 or other iOptron mount which would be meant to be sent back to the manufacturer for any service.

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The Losmandy mount is a lifetime mount. It is a user-serviceable workhorse with the associated learning curve. In my humble opinion, owning a Losmandy mount requires a modicum of confidence and desire to learn how to care-for and feed it. If you have those traits, I would imagine you will do just fine.

Chip, Ryan, thank you very much for the very detailed feedback! I do appreciate that.

Tracking numbers look very good -

About cable management, Dave, I like your idea to stiffen the cables using sleeves. I might try that one.

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Thank you again - I'm working on getting a decision soon.

Luca

On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 05:59 AM, Luca Fumagalli wrote:

Chip, Ryan, thank you very much for the very detailed feedback! I do appreciate that.

Tracking numbers look very good -

About cable management, Dave, I like your idea to stiffen the cables using sleeves. I might try that one.

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Thank you again - I'm working on getting a decision soon.

Luca

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Many folks, myself included use a lightweight woven split nylon type cable sleeving like this:

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It provides just enough stiffness to work well if you have a limited number of cable going to and from the mount.? I have also used flexible plastic wands and tubes, they all work fine but being an ASIAIR user all I have to worry about is a couple of light gauge power cords for the ASIAIR and the camera cooling system as well as a CAT6 Ethernet patch cable which is connected to a small travel router which is also connected to via CAT6 cable to the Gemini 2 for command and control.? ? ??

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I don't know where you are located but I'm in L.A. and would be happy to help you get your rig setup. Let me know.?

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I’ve found these reusable zip ties to be handy at times, to temporarily bundle cables together. They hold like a regular zip tie, but have a built-in lever to unlock them when you need to un-bundle the cables. And they can be reused many dozens of times.

Hi Luca,

I have a GM811G, but I think I can help answer a couple questions about the cables and power and the answer is no. It doesn't have a DC socket or any type of cable management. All the cables will be hanging out. The CEM70 might be a better choice if both of those are important to you. I purchased a Losmandy because I liked the way it looked, the build is very, very solid and well made, it's upgradable, they have fantastic customer service, and most of all, it's made in the United States, Burbank to be exact. I'll pay and have paid the extra cost for well made tools made in the U.S.

Thank you All for the great feedback. I am sincerely impressed by the help I've found in this community.

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Internal cabling is not an absolute must to me, but I do admit that it gives to me a lot of comfort (knowing of course that if a connection breaks inside the mount then it's a lot of pain, as pointed out before by Chip). By the way, I understand that Losmandy's support and craftsmanship are top notch, which is possibly better that internal cable routing, but still I need to figure out if this is the right choice for me.

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Chip, I truly appreciate your offer but I live in New Mexico. Vice-versa, if any of you will happen to swing by Rio Rancho, NM, please let me know and I'll pay you a beer for the inputs you are giving : )

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Luca

On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 02:47 PM, Luca Fumagalli wrote:

Internal cabling is not an absolute

An early example for you of one of my G11G cable harnesses made to mimic internal cabling with end to end connectors.? It followed the construction details of others to support my remote site assembly and disassembly.? This allows pointing the C11 anywhere in the sky (nothing trailing).

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WayBack, do you happen to have more pictures about this solution?

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Thanks, Luca

Luca,

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Echoing other responders, this is what I do:

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Most devices mounted to pier extension. plastic split loom houses all cables to scope including: camera usb, camera power, diy focuser, 2 dew heaters, gps if needed. Both ends attached to known spots and the top end exits the scope horizontally to port side. This arrangement has worked well for me for unattended imaging and flipping.

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BTW, I am down in Las Cruces though rig is in storage for the moment.

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Edward

Thank you Ed - Appreciate your availability.

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So.. I made a decision - I'm going to buy the G11G (w/ HD tripod, iPolar and RA extension).

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Can you guys please help with a couple of more questions?

- This is the first time I deal with a tripod/pier like the Losmandy's HD. What is the best config for it? Legs fully retracted + extension pier, or legs fully extended? The pier will stay in a tent with removable roof, so it is more or less shielded from the wind, but not perfectly. I'm just trying to put everything I can in the cart now in order to minimize further shipment fees...

- About the reported capacity of the G11G (60lbs): is it real or I should consider about 80% of it as max capacity? Just wondering if G11T would be a better fit for me. But, I also see that the G11T doesn't come with the Gemini2. Maybe it's a typo on the webpage, not sure..

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Thanks, Luca

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my configuration has legs collapsed and a 8” extension. this is to give camera more clearance, not because of stability concerns. tripod is rock solid either way

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Edward

On Sat, Sep 21, 2024 at 12:38 PM, Luca Fumagalli wrote:

Thank you Ed - Appreciate your availability.

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So.. I made a decision - I'm going to buy the G11G (w/ HD tripod, iPolar and RA extension).

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Can you guys please help with a couple of more questions?

- This is the first time I deal with a tripod/pier like the Losmandy's HD. What is the best config for it? Legs fully retracted + extension pier, or legs fully extended? The pier will stay in a tent with removable roof, so it is more or less shielded from the wind, but not pe?rfectly. I'm just trying to put everything I can in the cart now in order to minimize further shipment fees...

- About the reported capacity of the G11G (60lbs): is it real or I should consider about 80% of it as max capacity? Just wondering if G11T would be a better fit for me. But, I also see that the G11T doesn't come with the Gemini2. Maybe it's a typo on the webpage, not sure..

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Thanks, Luca

Luca,

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Congrats, a G11G with the RAEXT kit installed sitting on the FHD is an excellent imaging mount that you will keep for a very long time.? BUT, if you are going to have a laptop or other computer near the imaging rig and will be using something like NINA or SGP etc. there is no need to buy the iPolar camera at all.?

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Instead use SharpCap Pro or NINA for polar alignment which leverages your main imaging optic and camera to do polar alignment.? This gives you one less extra camera to buy, one less cable to route etc. etc..? Then use the money you saved to upgrade your autoguider camera to a ZWO ASI678MM for use as your piggybacked autoguider rig with a 50mm guidescope like the Stellarvue with the solid clamshell mounting ring or ASKAR guider which has a built-in mount and adjusters, both are excellent.?

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Good choice. One thing, if you're using an ASIAIR then bypass the iPolar. It won't be needed. I have one and when I was strictly visual I used it all the time, but the moment I purchased an ASIAIR and used the mount for astrophotography I found that the polar alignment was different with the iPolar and with the ASIAIR and so the iPolar was never used. Just my recommendation.

On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 09:15 PM, nathantwong wrote:

Good choice. One thing, if you're using an ASIAIR then bypass the iPolar. It won't be needed. I have one and when I was strictly visual I used it all the time, but the moment I purchased an ASIAIR and used the mount for astrophotography I found that the polar alignment was different with the iPolar and with the ASIAIR and so the iPolar was never used. Just my recommendation.

Hi Nathan,

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I had been using a Polemaster since they first came out several years ago.? Over the years I bought other PA tools and cameras but the Polemaster always seemed to give me very good reliable repeatable results. I found that all of the different PA tools, cameras, extensions and apps give slightly different polar alignments when you compare them to each other. The real test is comparing them against a DEC drift alignment and see how far off they are.?

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Interestingly when I started using the ASIAIR and shortly after the ASIAIR All-Sky PA was added the ASIAIR gave me very good results. After testing and examining the images the All-Sky images were good enough to rely on for imaging. The All-Sky PA which never points at Polaris and has been working very well for me for a couple years now with the Losmand Gemini 2 powered mounts.

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I have seen several videos trying to demonstrate which of these is better but none of them are very good and all simply compared one against the other. I don't think this kind of testing proves much of anything other than they all provide slightly different results some better some worse.?

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But for me having round stars for 5-6 minute subs is good enough.?

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