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Newb question and a bit of background. I hope this is an easy one? But I ask for the collective¡¯s help please as it¡¯s now starting to really frustrate me!!
At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
If not, why not? I¡¯m trying to figure out my new to me GM-8 with Gemini 1 and ASIAir Pro. After cold starting handset last night with mount in CWD, set Lat long and UTC correctly. I do have the External Losmandy encoders enabled if that makes any difference?
Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro. I try to sync from the pro to the mount, but no joy. So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro. To me this rules out an error in the pro and points the finger are the mount.
So I do a bit more investigating and return the mount to home in the hand controller, and it goes back to nowhere near the CWD position in RA. I return the mount with the hand controller to the CWD position and check RA and Dec figures in the hand controller. The dec is pretty much 0, but the RA is reading +53! I think I¡¯ve found the culprit.
Now what to do?? This is where I could use the collective help please?
1. How could my figures be so far off in the CWD position? So I don¡¯t do it again?
2. How do I/what is the best way of rectifying the problem? Manually entering the figures at the CWD position in the hand controller?
thanks for reading
|
Hi Bryn
congrats on the new mount. I'll do my best to give you my answers your questions below:
>>>At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
No. Those coordinates should reflect the RA and DEC of the celestial north pole. The Equinox J2000 equatorial coordinates of Polaris (roughly the same place) are RA = 02h 31m 48.7s, Dec = +89¡ã 15' 51". JNow is a little different, but you can see it's nowhere near 0 for either coordinate
>>>Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro.
Hard to say exactly what's going on, but generally speaking the two systems have to be coordinated. Many folks are surprised the mount and the?imaging app (in your case ASIAir) don't have a "shared settings" regarding time, location, and pointing model. They each have their own settings and your goal is to get the basic settings identical, and then sync the sky models. If you have different configuration in one vs. the other, you will get different information. For example, if Gemini thinks it's midnight and ASIAir thinks it's noon, you are going to get different results for where your telescope is pointing.?
first thing is to make sure both have accurate (and identical) date, time, timezone, and location information.?
second is using ASIAir, slew anywhere that is clearly east or west (not around the poles) and platesolve. that should give you accurate coordinates on where in the sky you are actually pointing. You need to sync that with the Gemini in order for the gemini to update its coordinates. If there's no sync, it won't know what is the correction
>>>So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro.
the hand controller only reports the mount coordinates, it does not have its own coordinate database or settings,?so this makes sense.?
I have two general suggestions for you
First, I suggest you get familiar with the Gemini system without using the ASIAir. Make sure you can set it up and slew it using goto so the pointing is accurate. It sounds like the settings may not be accurate somewhere.?
Second, you might want to familiarize yourself with the celestial coordinate system. There are some great resources out there,?i have found this youtube series really helpful.??
it's a 23 part series, but goes pretty quickly. the celestial coordinate system including RA and DEC really get into it around part 8.
I apologize if this part is unnecessary for you. I'm only reflecting on your question regarding the RA/DEC of CWD position.
hope that helps
Brian
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 6:52 AM Bryn Evans via <brynevans2000= [email protected]> wrote: Newb question and a bit of background. I hope this is an easy one? But I ask for the collective¡¯s help please as it¡¯s now starting to really frustrate me!!
At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
If not, why not? I¡¯m trying to figure out my new to me GM-8 with Gemini 1 and ASIAir Pro. After cold starting handset last night with mount in CWD, set Lat long and UTC correctly. I do have the External Losmandy encoders enabled if that makes any difference?
Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro. I try to sync from the pro to the mount, but no joy. So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro. To me this rules out an error in the pro and points the finger are the mount.
So I do a bit more investigating and return the mount to home in the hand controller, and it goes back to nowhere near the CWD position in RA. I return the mount with the hand controller to the CWD position and check RA and Dec figures in the hand controller. The dec is pretty much 0, but the RA is reading +53! I think I¡¯ve found the culprit.
Now what to do?? This is where I could use the collective help please?
1. How could my figures be so far off in the CWD position? So I don¡¯t do it again?
2. How do I/what is the best way of rectifying the problem? Manually entering the figures at the CWD position in the hand controller?
thanks for reading
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Um, the north celestial pole doesn¡¯t have an RA. That¡¯s the nature of any polar coordinate system. In the CWD position the RA should correspond to 6 hours ahead or behind the current RA of the meridian, which in turn is continuously changing as the Earth rotates.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 27, 2020, at 8:30 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
? Hi Bryn
congrats on the new mount. I'll do my best to give you my answers your questions below:
>>>At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
No. Those coordinates should reflect the RA and DEC of the celestial north pole. The Equinox J2000 equatorial coordinates of Polaris (roughly the same place) are RA = 02h 31m 48.7s, Dec = +89¡ã 15' 51". JNow is a little different, but you can see it's nowhere near 0 for either coordinate
>>>Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro.
Hard to say exactly what's going on, but generally speaking the two systems have to be coordinated. Many folks are surprised the mount and the?imaging app (in your case ASIAir) don't have a "shared settings" regarding time, location, and pointing model. They each have their own settings and your goal is to get the basic settings identical, and then sync the sky models. If you have different configuration in one vs. the other, you will get different information. For example, if Gemini thinks it's midnight and ASIAir thinks it's noon, you are going to get different results for where your telescope is pointing.?
first thing is to make sure both have accurate (and identical) date, time, timezone, and location information.?
second is using ASIAir, slew anywhere that is clearly east or west (not around the poles) and platesolve. that should give you accurate coordinates on where in the sky you are actually pointing. You need to sync that with the Gemini in order for the gemini to update its coordinates. If there's no sync, it won't know what is the correction
>>>So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro.
the hand controller only reports the mount coordinates, it does not have its own coordinate database or settings,?so this makes sense.?
I have two general suggestions for you
First, I suggest you get familiar with the Gemini system without using the ASIAir. Make sure you can set it up and slew it using goto so the pointing is accurate. It sounds like the settings may not be accurate somewhere.?
Second, you might want to familiarize yourself with the celestial coordinate system. There are some great resources out there,?i have found this youtube series really helpful.??
it's a 23 part series, but goes pretty quickly. the celestial coordinate system including RA and DEC really get into it around part 8.
I apologize if this part is unnecessary for you. I'm only reflecting on your question regarding the RA/DEC of CWD position.
hope that helps
Brian On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 6:52 AM Bryn Evans via <brynevans2000= [email protected]> wrote: Newb question and a bit of background. I hope this is an easy one? But I ask for the collective¡¯s help please as it¡¯s now starting to really frustrate me!!
At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
If not, why not? I¡¯m trying to figure out my new to me GM-8 with Gemini 1 and ASIAir Pro. After cold starting handset last night with mount in CWD, set Lat long and UTC correctly. I do have the External Losmandy encoders enabled if that makes any difference?
Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro. I try to sync from the pro to the mount, but no joy. So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro. To me this rules out an error in the pro and points the finger are the mount.
So I do a bit more investigating and return the mount to home in the hand controller, and it goes back to nowhere near the CWD position in RA. I return the mount with the hand controller to the CWD position and check RA and Dec figures in the hand controller. The dec is pretty much 0, but the RA is reading +53! I think I¡¯ve found the culprit.
Now what to do?? This is where I could use the collective help please?
1. How could my figures be so far off in the CWD position? So I don¡¯t do it again?
2. How do I/what is the best way of rectifying the problem? Manually entering the figures at the CWD position in the hand controller?
thanks for reading
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Hmmmm..... I am also new with regards to using a Losmandy (G11G).? I assumed CWD was with the DEC/RA bubble levels 'centered'.? This is how I setup CWD.? Is this correct??? ?When I am finished for night, I just send the park command to Park at CWD.? Now, not sure if this is correct.
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>>>
?In the CWD position the RA should correspond to 6 hours ahead or behind the current RA of the meridian, which in turn is continuously changing as the Earth rotates.?
les you're right, sorry. I meant to say your CWD position, but i clearly mixed a few things up.
More specifically, CWD RA position is not going to show 0
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 9:07 AM Les Niles < les@...> wrote: Um, the north celestial pole doesn¡¯t have an RA. That¡¯s the nature of any polar coordinate system. In the CWD position the RA should correspond to 6 hours ahead or behind the current RA of the meridian, which in turn is continuously changing as the Earth rotates.? On Oct 27, 2020, at 8:30 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
? Hi Bryn
congrats on the new mount. I'll do my best to give you my answers your questions below:
>>>At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
No. Those coordinates should reflect the RA and DEC of the celestial north pole. The Equinox J2000 equatorial coordinates of Polaris (roughly the same place) are RA = 02h 31m 48.7s, Dec = +89¡ã 15' 51". JNow is a little different, but you can see it's nowhere near 0 for either coordinate
>>>Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro.
Hard to say exactly what's going on, but generally speaking the two systems have to be coordinated. Many folks are surprised the mount and the?imaging app (in your case ASIAir) don't have a "shared settings" regarding time, location, and pointing model. They each have their own settings and your goal is to get the basic settings identical, and then sync the sky models. If you have different configuration in one vs. the other, you will get different information. For example, if Gemini thinks it's midnight and ASIAir thinks it's noon, you are going to get different results for where your telescope is pointing.?
first thing is to make sure both have accurate (and identical) date, time, timezone, and location information.?
second is using ASIAir, slew anywhere that is clearly east or west (not around the poles) and platesolve. that should give you accurate coordinates on where in the sky you are actually pointing. You need to sync that with the Gemini in order for the gemini to update its coordinates. If there's no sync, it won't know what is the correction
>>>So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro.
the hand controller only reports the mount coordinates, it does not have its own coordinate database or settings,?so this makes sense.?
I have two general suggestions for you
First, I suggest you get familiar with the Gemini system without using the ASIAir. Make sure you can set it up and slew it using goto so the pointing is accurate. It sounds like the settings may not be accurate somewhere.?
Second, you might want to familiarize yourself with the celestial coordinate system. There are some great resources out there,?i have found this youtube series really helpful.??
it's a 23 part series, but goes pretty quickly. the celestial coordinate system including RA and DEC really get into it around part 8.
I apologize if this part is unnecessary for you. I'm only reflecting on your question regarding the RA/DEC of CWD position.
hope that helps
Brian On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 6:52 AM Bryn Evans via <brynevans2000= [email protected]> wrote: Newb question and a bit of background. I hope this is an easy one? But I ask for the collective¡¯s help please as it¡¯s now starting to really frustrate me!!
At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
If not, why not? I¡¯m trying to figure out my new to me GM-8 with Gemini 1 and ASIAir Pro. After cold starting handset last night with mount in CWD, set Lat long and UTC correctly. I do have the External Losmandy encoders enabled if that makes any difference?
Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro. I try to sync from the pro to the mount, but no joy. So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro. To me this rules out an error in the pro and points the finger are the mount.
So I do a bit more investigating and return the mount to home in the hand controller, and it goes back to nowhere near the CWD position in RA. I return the mount with the hand controller to the CWD position and check RA and Dec figures in the hand controller. The dec is pretty much 0, but the RA is reading +53! I think I¡¯ve found the culprit.
Now what to do?? This is where I could use the collective help please?
1. How could my figures be so far off in the CWD position? So I don¡¯t do it again?
2. How do I/what is the best way of rectifying the problem? Manually entering the figures at the CWD position in the hand controller?
thanks for reading
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Russ
yes what you are doing is correct
[Edited Message Follows]
Hmmmm..... I am also new with regards to using a Losmandy (G11G).? I assumed CWD was with the DEC/RA bubble levels 'centered'.? This is how I setup CWD.? Is this correct??? ?When I am finished for night, I just send the park command to Park at CWD.? Now, not sure if this is correct.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
I suggest you try this first with your Gemini-1 and GM8 mount.
Unlock your RA clutch knob and rotate RA until the counterweight bar is horizontal.? Lock RA there.??
Loosen the DEC clutch knob.? if your scope rotates then the scope/dovetail need to be adjusted to get it balanced.??
Rotate the DEC indicator collar so that the side pointer says some convenient hour, like 6 o'clock.? There may have a small setscrew or two to loosen and tighten to get the ring to that position.
Now DEC is done.??
While still at the horizontal position, use a short "torpedo level" on the counterweight bar to get it quite level.? Rotate the RA indicator ring to get to a convenient place like 6 o'clock.? Then set that ring position.??
Loosen the RA clutch and give it a gentle push in either CW or CCW (clockwise or counterclockwise).? Consider if it takes longer to come to rest in one direction or the other.? Adjust the counterweights to get the balance as best as?possible.??
Now rotate both axes to get to CWD position accurately using the indicator rings.??
If you have s polar scope, use that to confirm your RA axis is aligned. The Losmandy polar scope has a wide field of view.? It has markings for Cassiopeia W and you can orient the polar scope so that W is where it appears in the sky.? Then adjust the back AZ knobs and front ELevation knob until.polaris is at the indicated position in the polar scope.? Be sure to retighten the AZ lockdown knobs when done so the AZ axis is secure.??
Now ... on to Gemini use: ? Power on.
The question will come up: Warm Boot? Use the diamond arrow keys to choose Cold Boot (not Warm Boot).? Then press enter.
The display should say "Cold Booted at UTC...."? ?
Here's why: Cold Boot assumes the mount was started in CWD position.? Warm boot assumes the mount was parked at some other direction, and you done know where.? Always do a Cold Boot when your pointing goes awry.
Your Gemini should say "Gemini level 4 version 1.05".? If it says an earlier version contact me for a new Eprom with that latest version.? You can replace the Eprom yourself...I'll send you directions.??
Also double check the UTC time, using Show Time/Date.? Compare date and time between the Gemini and a website like this one:
?
Note that the Gemini1 code for UTC time is a bit unusual.? It is given below with an example, if you wanted to change the value: ? Upon executing "UTC Date/Time" the UTC date and time display freezes but the RTC
continues to keep time.
The display of date and time from left to right reads as follows: "yymm.dd hh:mm:ss"
(yy = year, mm = month, dd = day, hh = hour, mm = minutes, ss = seconds).
So for example, for the UTC website giving: 2020, 27 of October at 6:15 AM, you'd enter as follows: You take the 20 is the last 2 digits from 2020, the 10 is October, ...:27th day
2010.27? 06:15:25 If the UTC is wrong, use the Setup/UTC time to enter the correct value.? Then you must Park at CWD and Cold Boot again!!!
Same for your Latitude and Longitude. When you see a "decimal point" in the Gemini display, this is a USA comma, not a real decimal point.? Gemini uses Degrees.Minutes where you might expect Degrees,Minutes display.? Again if you change any if these key values you must Park at CWD then Cold Boot to get the new settings to take effect.?
Now Align to a bright star.? Like Vega, etc.? Good to pick a star near the celestial Equator.??
You can Align to a few more stars from the extensive Bright Star list.??
Your next GoTo say Jupiter or Saturn or Mars should be pretty accurate.? If not, your polar axis may still be off, even with the polar scope. Or you may have "cone angle" error if your scope is not square to the DEC axis.? There are other errors too, but AZ and EL errors from poor polar alignment are the most common.
All said, your Gemini should be pointing accurately to the chosen target.??
Have fun,
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 9:53 AM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: >>>
?In the CWD position the RA should correspond to 6 hours ahead or behind the current RA of the meridian, which in turn is continuously changing as the Earth rotates.?
les you're right, sorry. I meant to say your CWD position, but i clearly mixed a few things up.
More specifically, CWD RA position is not going to show 0
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 9:07 AM Les Niles < les@...> wrote: Um, the north celestial pole doesn¡¯t have an RA. That¡¯s the nature of any polar coordinate system. In the CWD position the RA should correspond to 6 hours ahead or behind the current RA of the meridian, which in turn is continuously changing as the Earth rotates.? On Oct 27, 2020, at 8:30 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
? Hi Bryn
congrats on the new mount. I'll do my best to give you my answers your questions below:
>>>At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
No. Those coordinates should reflect the RA and DEC of the celestial north pole. The Equinox J2000 equatorial coordinates of Polaris (roughly the same place) are RA = 02h 31m 48.7s, Dec = +89¡ã 15' 51". JNow is a little different, but you can see it's nowhere near 0 for either coordinate
>>>Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro.
Hard to say exactly what's going on, but generally speaking the two systems have to be coordinated. Many folks are surprised the mount and the?imaging app (in your case ASIAir) don't have a "shared settings" regarding time, location, and pointing model. They each have their own settings and your goal is to get the basic settings identical, and then sync the sky models. If you have different configuration in one vs. the other, you will get different information. For example, if Gemini thinks it's midnight and ASIAir thinks it's noon, you are going to get different results for where your telescope is pointing.?
first thing is to make sure both have accurate (and identical) date, time, timezone, and location information.?
second is using ASIAir, slew anywhere that is clearly east or west (not around the poles) and platesolve. that should give you accurate coordinates on where in the sky you are actually pointing. You need to sync that with the Gemini in order for the gemini to update its coordinates. If there's no sync, it won't know what is the correction
>>>So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro.
the hand controller only reports the mount coordinates, it does not have its own coordinate database or settings,?so this makes sense.?
I have two general suggestions for you
First, I suggest you get familiar with the Gemini system without using the ASIAir. Make sure you can set it up and slew it using goto so the pointing is accurate. It sounds like the settings may not be accurate somewhere.?
Second, you might want to familiarize yourself with the celestial coordinate system. There are some great resources out there,?i have found this youtube series really helpful.??
it's a 23 part series, but goes pretty quickly. the celestial coordinate system including RA and DEC really get into it around part 8.
I apologize if this part is unnecessary for you. I'm only reflecting on your question regarding the RA/DEC of CWD position.
hope that helps
Brian On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 6:52 AM Bryn Evans via <brynevans2000= [email protected]> wrote: Newb question and a bit of background. I hope this is an easy one? But I ask for the collective¡¯s help please as it¡¯s now starting to really frustrate me!!
At the CWD position, I assume that the RA and Dec number for this position Should both be zero?
If not, why not? I¡¯m trying to figure out my new to me GM-8 with Gemini 1 and ASIAir Pro. After cold starting handset last night with mount in CWD, set Lat long and UTC correctly. I do have the External Losmandy encoders enabled if that makes any difference?
Switched on Pro, polar aligned and go to slew, the mount skews ¡°randomly¡± nowhere near target. I plate solve and the pro returns different (look accurate) RA and dec figures, but the mount is reporting very different figures to the pro. I try to sync from the pro to the mount, but no joy. So I check the RA and Dec figures in the hand controller, and they report the same as the mount figures reported in the pro. To me this rules out an error in the pro and points the finger are the mount.
So I do a bit more investigating and return the mount to home in the hand controller, and it goes back to nowhere near the CWD position in RA. I return the mount with the hand controller to the CWD position and check RA and Dec figures in the hand controller. The dec is pretty much 0, but the RA is reading +53! I think I¡¯ve found the culprit.
Now what to do?? This is where I could use the collective help please?
1. How could my figures be so far off in the CWD position? So I don¡¯t do it again?
2. How do I/what is the best way of rectifying the problem? Manually entering the figures at the CWD position in the hand controller?
thanks for reading
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Thanks Brian and Les,
From your advice, yes zero and zero is obviously incorrect. However, as a check that things are indeed correctly set, as the CWD position when polar aligned should be pointing at celestial North, I¡¯m assuming, as Polaris is near, that the RA and DEC coordinates in the Gemini should be close to, but not exactly the same as those of Polaris?
Following Michael¡¯s excellent and very useful post, I will indeed try and get myself sorted with just Gemini and finally get myself up and running tonight.?
I¡¯ll report back. Thanks all
|
Les,
I think Brian was thinking NCP but saying Polaris. You are correct about the RA of the NCP of course.? ?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
DEC should be 90¡ã ¡ª that puts the scope parallel to the RA axis. The RA coordinate is immaterial; when the DEC is 90¡ã, the scope points in the same direction regardless of RA. What you want is for the counterweight bar (a/k/a DEC axis) to be pointing down ¡ª as near to straight down as it gets, given your latitude setting.?
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Show quoted text
On Oct 27, 2020, at 11:49 AM, Bryn Evans via groups.io <brynevans2000@...> wrote:
? Thanks Brian and Les,
From your advice, yes zero and zero is obviously incorrect. However, as a check that things are indeed correctly set, as the CWD position when polar aligned should be pointing at celestial North, I¡¯m assuming, as Polaris is near, that the RA and DEC coordinates in the Gemini should be close to, but not exactly the same as those of Polaris?
Following Michael¡¯s excellent and very useful post, I will indeed try and get myself sorted with just Gemini and finally get myself up and running tonight.?
I¡¯ll report back. Thanks all
|
Bryn,??
The setting circles are settable once you have the mount polar aligned you just find an object you can reliably identify then using a planetarium app like SkySafari, Stellarium etc. look up the current coordinates and rotate the setting circles to match. The RA will change anytime you move the mount by hand, remove power or stop the Gemini from tracking but the DEC should remain locked in on the same place if your polar alignment is accurate.??
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Thanks all. I¡¯ve just had another stab using Michaels instructions. All the times, lat long, mount type, polar align etc are correct.
first slew using Gemini to Vega, right kind of direction, but it seems to stall on the handset stating ¡°centering D¡±. I exited from this and tried Mars, which the mount skews to completely the wrong direction and nowhere near.
So switched the mount off, cold started again and went to deneb. This time it did finish centering in the hand controller, but was still someway off. I did cheat and use the air to plate solve and sync and after a couple of goes of this cycle, it¡¯s up and running.
So my question is, is the first goto usually some way off (not even in the FOV of a 340mm scope?)
If not, am?I missing something obvious? I love the mount, but it is taking a little while to try and get it up and working for me unfortunately?
thanks
what am I missing??
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Bryn,
I'd say...your first GoTo should be accurate, especially in your wide angle scope.... If: 1. Your polar alignment is correct 2. The Gemini is set to GM8 mount (double check this because the Gemini-2 defaults to G11 that has 2x the ring gear teeth, so a Gm8 set to act on a G11 will drive it 2x as far as it should!) 3. Gearboxes are the plastic front and back stock gearbox.? There is a metal McLennan gearbox that can be used, but it revolves the opposite direction from the plastic one.??
So I'd say something is wrong with your GM8+Gemini.? Now...what is it?? Here are some things...to check on:
If you have a serial port connection from gemini to PC??(as I think you do to run your other software) we can try a TeamViewer and phone call together to see what the Gemini is doing...and look at all the Gemini settings and it's model.? Let me know if you are interested in this kind of a "house call"...we can set something up.? ( I'm in the US... California.)
Other things to check: These mounts use a coupler between the worm (1/4 inch drive shaft) and the gearbox drive shaft (not 1/4 inch).? That coupler, called an Oldham coupler, has two metal end parts that can get loose.? (The plastic center needs to be firmly between the metal parts, and gearbox to worm axial centers well lined up).? When a part of the coupler gets loose,? the gearbox will spin but the worm won't necessarily move.? Then your gotos can be wacky (not moving the right distance).? Then your model will be way out of whack.? ?You must remove the worm cover(s) and inspect the Oldham metal ends for looseness and retighten the little setscrews if necessary.??
But even if the coupler is loose, for sure it won't spin the worm the wrong way! That suggests either the mount is set to the wrong type, (Titan spins opposite from G11 or GM8) or your Latitude or Longitude are wrong (for example Longitude for USA will be displayed as West, or enter as a negative number).? Or you have a metal gearbox on one or both axes.? This is a puzzle that should be easy to figure out.
The Eprom holds the firmware code in Gemini-1. The Eprom can go bad over many years.? They were supposed to hold data for 100 years, but all those good devices are ... obsolete.? I can send you a new Eprom to try and see, but this is a long shot.? Much more likely something is mis-set.? All the settings are visible in the nice Ascom applet.??
When you use Gemini.net, note that the PC values are not necessarily the same values as the gemini unit has! You must press the button "Get from Gemini" or "Send to Gemini.".? ?The PC and Gemini do not automatically synch up!? ?
Also beware that there are tiny checkboxes for: "Synch performs additional Align" (leave that un-checked unless you are intentionally doing Align points from your star chart program).? And also "Update UTC on Connect" leave that off too.??
Enough for now. Email me directly (to Sender) if you want to talk/walk through these items.
Best, Michael
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 1:58 PM Bryn Evans via <brynevans2000= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks all. I¡¯ve just had another stab using Michaels instructions. All the times, lat long, mount type, polar align etc are correct.
first slew using Gemini to Vega, right kind of direction, but it seems to stall on the handset stating ¡°centering D¡±. I exited from this and tried Mars, which the mount skews to completely the wrong direction and nowhere near.
So switched the mount off, cold started again and went to deneb. This time it did finish centering in the hand controller, but was still someway off. I did cheat and use the air to plate solve and sync and after a couple of goes of this cycle, it¡¯s up and running.
So my question is, is the first goto usually some way off (not even in the FOV of a 340mm scope?)
If not, am?I missing something obvious? I love the mount, but it is taking a little while to try and get it up and working for me unfortunately?
thanks
what am I missing??
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Thanks very much Michael, that¡¯s very generous of you. I¡¯ll email you tomorrow.
Thanks again
Bryn
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So I had another go tonight and much better!
cold started, UTC correct, mount correct and Lat Long Set to Hollywood! Loaded my location in, restarted Gemini 1 and everything correct.?
question - is it normal that the UTC and mount type are remembered in the UTC but the lat long isn¡¯t?
Polar aligned using the ASI air, then slewed to a bright star (Vega) using the hand controller and waited until centered. Mount slewed fairly close, but not completely in view. Plate solved in ASI air, synced to mount and went to Vega in ASI Air. Pretty much spot on.
Question - if my CWD position wasn¡¯t 100%, but visually was, would this account for the slight miss-alignment with the first goto?
following that, did a few slews with the Air and managed to get a few 5min guided test subs. I then parked the mount with the air and all returned to the correct position. I then left it parked for 30 mins while there were clouds.
went back to slew again with the Air, but now things were screwy again, with the mount and the air Un synced and the mount reporting different RA and Dec to where it was actually pointing. Sent the mount to CWD using the air and the position was all wrong, nowhere near CWD.?
So I powered off the mount, returned to CWD manually and cold started. Again, my location lat long had not been stored. Re-entered it and did another cold start. Repeated my process and all was good again.
so, to me it would appear that the mount is loosing its positioning after a period of ¡®inactivity¡¯. I assume this is not normal, so any ideas what it could be? The mount is powered with mains power through a 12v - 15v up converter, so 15v to the mount.
thanks for all the help and advice so far. I¡¯m slowly getting my head around things, I hope ??
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Hi Bryn,
Congrats on getting finally good pointing.
Briefly...
Yes the gemini stores your location Latitude and Longitude in SRAM. And UTC time is being updated by the RTC Epson chip.
And your "model" parameters which are the error terms to a perfect mount are also stored in SRAM...so is the type of mount, gearbox parameters etc.
The AZ and ELevation error terms are also computed after the 2nd star alignment is completed. You can (and should) look at those error values using the Gemini.net applet, on the Advanced panel, under Model.? Click on Download from Gemini to see what's in the Gemini.? That synch between the OC and Gemini is not automatic.??
If your CWD was off by 2 degrees, so would the initial pointing.? Once you "synch in a bright star" the system knows the CWD offset.?
Have fun and keep practicing til you get familiar with the Gemini.??
Also note that if you click the Menu button it toggkes between Sidereal rate and Menu.? But if you are on Sidereal tracking and hold down the Menu button for a longer time, about a whole second, other menus come up...like Park, and finally you will come to Meridian Flip.? ?
So...keep practicing.
Best, Michael
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 5:05 PM Bryn Evans via <brynevans2000= [email protected]> wrote: So I had another go tonight and much better!
cold started, UTC correct, mount correct and Lat Long Set to Hollywood! Loaded my location in, restarted Gemini 1 and everything correct.?
question - is it normal that the UTC and mount type are remembered in the UTC but the lat long isn¡¯t?
Polar aligned using the ASI air, then slewed to a bright star (Vega) using the hand controller and waited until centered. Mount slewed fairly close, but not completely in view. Plate solved in ASI air, synced to mount and went to Vega in ASI Air. Pretty much spot on.
Question - if my CWD position wasn¡¯t 100%, but visually was, would this account for the slight miss-alignment with the first goto?
following that, did a few slews with the Air and managed to get a few 5min guided test subs. I then parked the mount with the air and all returned to the correct position. I then left it parked for 30 mins while there were clouds.
went back to slew again with the Air, but now things were screwy again, with the mount and the air Un synced and the mount reporting different RA and Dec to where it was actually pointing. Sent the mount to CWD using the air and the position was all wrong, nowhere near CWD.?
So I powered off the mount, returned to CWD manually and cold started. Again, my location lat long had not been stored. Re-entered it and did another cold start. Repeated my process and all was good again.
so, to me it would appear that the mount is loosing its positioning after a period of ¡®inactivity¡¯. I assume this is not normal, so any ideas what it could be? The mount is powered with mains power through a 12v - 15v up converter, so 15v to the mount.
thanks for all the help and advice so far. I¡¯m slowly getting my head around things, I hope ??
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FYI, everytime you press Cold Start, ALL settings are erased and you have to start over.? This includes any modeling data, time, location...etc.
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>>>
FYI, everytime you press Cold Start, ALL settings are erased and you have to start over.? This includes any modeling data, time, location...etc.
Cold start only resets the model, it does not erase your basic setup information including date, time, location, and timezone among others
FYI, everytime you press Cold Start, ALL settings are erased and you have to start over.? This includes any modeling data, time, location...etc.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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No...not so, Russ.
Cold start only erases the Model data.??
Location, and mount type, are not affected. UTC time is not affected.
If you see the message "CMOS Reset" then the SRAM data was all list and all info must be re-entered, after the battery is replaced.?
Have no fear of the Cold Start.? Especially if your Gemini go-tos are wacky, a Cold Start from CWD position is the best way to get sense back.??
If you adjust your AZ or Elevation knobs, you must go back to CWD and do a cold boot.? Those error terms are key values of the Model and get calculated early...after the first few Align stars are complete.? If you do a 1 star alignment, no error terms are calculated (system just records the optical encoder position and assumes there are no model errors).??
All the best, Michael
FYI, everytime you press Cold Start, ALL settings are erased and you have to start over.? This includes any modeling data, time, location...etc.
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>>>?Have no fear of the Cold Start.? Especially if your Gemini go-tos are wacky, a Cold Start from CWD position is the best way to get sense back. ?
Sage advice!
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 11:23 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: No...not so, Russ.
Cold start only erases the Model data.??
Location, and mount type, are not affected. UTC time is not affected.
If you see the message "CMOS Reset" then the SRAM data was all list and all info must be re-entered, after the battery is replaced.?
Have no fear of the Cold Start.? Especially if your Gemini go-tos are wacky, a Cold Start from CWD position is the best way to get sense back.??
If you adjust your AZ or Elevation knobs, you must go back to CWD and do a cold boot.? Those error terms are key values of the Model and get calculated early...after the first few Align stars are complete.? If you do a 1 star alignment, no error terms are calculated (system just records the optical encoder position and assumes there are no model errors).??
All the best, Michael
FYI, everytime you press Cold Start, ALL settings are erased and you have to start over.? This includes any modeling data, time, location...etc.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Michael Herman
Chip Louie