What vintage Gemini-1 do I have?
My posts here are beginning to look like a game of "Guess the Gear."? However I am new to the Losmandy universe so please bear with me, thank you.??
Here is an image of my Gemini-1 controller and handset?? From the gemini.net ?website I cannot exactly identify my controller.? Mine seems to look similar to the "second version of the board", Fig 3A? but instead of 5 pin DIN connectors mine has RJ45s.? ?I am wondering if the RJ45s were fitted before or after the DIN connectors.? This is just for my own information, a little bit of Losmandy/Gemini genealogy.
Thanks
Pete
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>>>
2. Slip rings (the spacers) are pretty much essential when tightening these clutches.
perfect sounds like you did everything right here
Thanks Pete
Brian
Thank you all for your replies.? I have often been told that I have something missing and, here it is...? Spacers.
@Brian, I have ordered the spacers and I have included the serial number of my mount in the Additional Information field of the order form.
I was pretty sure that these parts were missing for two reasons:
1. The excess thread protruding from the axis spindles.
2. Slip rings (the spacers) are pretty much essential when tightening these clutches.
Thank you for your prompt replies.
Pete
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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I think your Belleville washers are what Losmandy calls ¡°wavy washer,¡± which are properly part of the stack of parts on the axes. ?The ¡°Belleville washers¡± that are commonly discussed on this forum are something else entirely ¡ª a modification to put spring loading on the worm gear axes. Those are much much smaller washers.?
Regarding the spacers, if your mount ever had the digital setting circles, the encoders take the places of the spacers on the axes. That could explain how they went missing.?
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On May 2, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Pete <pete.ingram@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Thank you all for your replies.? I have often been told that I have something missing and, here it is...? Spacers. I am now not sure what to do with the Bellville washers.? Even though they are not supported by Losmandy, should I include them?? I shall try both with and without and see what works best for me. @Brian, I have ordered the spacers and I have included the serial number of my mount in the Additional Information field of the order form. I was pretty sure that these parts were missing for two reasons: 1. The excess thread protruding from the axis spindles. 2. Slip rings (the spacers) are pretty much essential when tightening these clutches. Thank you for your prompt replies. Pete
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Thank you all for your replies.? I have often been told that I have something missing and, here it is...? Spacers.
I am now not sure what to do with the Bellville washers.? Even though they are not supported by Losmandy, should I include them?? I shall try both with and without and see what works best for me.
@Brian, I have ordered the spacers and I have included the serial number of my mount in the Additional Information field of the order form.
I was pretty sure that these parts were missing for two reasons:
1. The excess thread protruding from the axis spindles.
2. Slip rings (the spacers) are pretty much essential when tightening these clutches.
Thank you for your prompt replies.
Pete
|
Re: OnStep G11 First Light - 119 Second PE?
Thanks Michael.
The stars are some of the roundest Ive ever had, so I guess the
proof is in the pudding.? Still, it gives me something to tweak -
all part of the fun.? I did finally turn down a flexible coupler
and installed it about an hour ago.? A lot of work when you dont
have a lathe.? But at least the RA is done now, and maybe that
will be enough to subdue the 2nd order harmonic.
Yes, I will do a guiding assistant to accomplish what you
suggest.? Ill let it run for at least an hour.? I really just
wanted to get a baseline imaging session with the mount first
before the clouds thickened around 11pm and had to call it quits,
otherwise it would have been done last night.? Honestly, with the
cloud cover, I wouldnt have trusted the GA data anyway.
Thanks again for your help and suggestions,
-Tony
On 5/2/2021 1:30 PM, Michael Herman
wrote:
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Show quoted text
No idea on the cause of that "half-period"
oscillation, Tony.? If it's not causing imaging problems, you
are in good shape.
However, please do this test to eliminate the
PHD2 as a cause:?
Just run an unguided 45 min to 1 hour tracking
of a star near meridian and equator.? Then you will get the
mount PE without any PHD2 autoguiding effects.
Have fun,
Michael
Hi All -
Well, the first shakedown run shook out a few bugs, but
worked through them eventually.? Overall, I think it was a
successful first light for my recently converted OnStep
G11.? I think I know what direction I want to head in, but
wanted to get the opinion of those that are familiar with
the mount.? The G11 is from 2009, has the two piece worm
blocks (fresh bearings), and has not been run in some
years before I purchased it. ? I was shooting m63 and
m101, both at pretty close to zenith, and well north of
the celestial equator, so perhaps not a very challenging
guide target.? Still, I was pretty happy with a VERY
consistent .75 to .85 arc-sec RMS for a first try,
especially considering I was shooting through thin cloud
cover the entire night.?
![Full size image]()
There's some very obvious periodic error on the RA worm.?
Lets throw the log through PEC prep to find? the period,
shall we?
The sharp spike is 119 seconds, or half the worm period.?
A quick search online shows this is most likely slipping
of the oldham coupler.? I dont have oldham coupler, they
are rigid, but they could easily have been tightened down
out of alignment, or even slipping as? the worm rotates.?
But other than the 119 second period, nothing stands out
at me as an issue.? I'm a bit relieved that I don't see
the dreaded 75 second spike.? Are there any other obvious
sources for 119-120 second PE?
I will attempt to re-align everything on the RA drivetrain
to try and center it better with the rigid coupler.? In two
weeks I hope to see my parents again for the first time
since covid, and if I beg and plead enough, maybe my dad
will bring a couple turned down helical couplers with him
when they arrive.
But all in all, seems like a good start for this mount.?
The guide error was incredibly regular compared to my last
mount which was totally random, so nothing to tune out.?
Considering the clouds and he fact that I didnt bother
setting up a wind break (< 5 mph), I think this thing
shows a lot of promise.? Glad to finally be aboard the
Losmandy train...
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks all,
-Tony
|
Hi Michael
I don't have that information, it predates me and i don't think it exists by serial number
There isn't a lot of issue around this, since it's rare that someone just straight loses a part. Anyone can write to tech support with a pic of their setup and we can advise them.
But the test is simple: If you don't have the spacer and the clutch tightens then you don't need one.
People who need a replacement have the option of purchasing one from us
Brian?
On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 10:20 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Brian,
To solve my present confusion, can you say:
1) At what serial number (stamped in the bottom of each unit) that you took the thick spacer out of the G11 mount design, which had been under the RA clutch knob.??
2) When that spacer was removed, did you also lengthen the body of the RA axis body to make up the spacer length???
Or is the RA threaded shaft made shorter to eliminate the need for the thick spacer?
Thanks, Michael
On Sun, May 2, 2021, 9:59 AM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: FYI the spacers are here if you need them:
Hi Pete
The design has changed through the years. spacers were added at some point due to design changes and enabling the clutch to tighten correctly.
If your clutch tightens, you don't need any additional spacer.?
you can watch our cleaning/greasing video and see the order of things on the axis.
Also FYI Belleville washers are not a losmandy part. They are a third party mod and not supported by Losmandy
Brian
Here is an image of my dismantled DEC axis of my CG11 mount.? The RA axis is the same.? ?From left to right there is there is the knurled clutch nut, Bellville washer, bearing thrust washer, needle thrust bearing and the the forward bearing thrust washer.? My question is to ask if I have all the parts that should be there?? Why am I asking this?? I noticed on newer G11 that there is a spacer between the knurled nut and the Bellville washer??
My mount does not currently have this but there is thread on both the RA and DEC shafts the permit such a spacer.? I believe a spacer may have been introduced at some point to act as a slip ring between the nut and the Bellville washer on later mounts.? It may very well be that my vintage of the G11 never had these spacers.? If not should I retro-fit them?
As ever, thanks for your help and your thoughts.
Pete
--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Re: OnStep G11 First Light - 119 Second PE?
No idea on the cause of that "half-period" oscillation, Tony.? If it's not causing imaging problems, you are in good shape.
However, please do this test to eliminate the PHD2 as a cause:?
Just run an unguided 45 min to 1 hour tracking of a star near meridian and equator.? Then you will get the mount PE without any PHD2 autoguiding effects.
Have fun, Michael
Hi All -
Well, the first shakedown run shook out a few bugs, but worked
through them eventually.? Overall, I think it was a successful
first light for my recently converted OnStep G11.? I think I know
what direction I want to head in, but wanted to get the opinion of
those that are familiar with the mount.? The G11 is from 2009, has
the two piece worm blocks (fresh bearings), and has not been run
in some years before I purchased it. ? I was shooting m63 and
m101, both at pretty close to zenith, and well north of the
celestial equator, so perhaps not a very challenging guide
target.? Still, I was pretty happy with a VERY consistent .75 to
.85 arc-sec RMS for a first try, especially considering I was
shooting through thin cloud cover the entire night.?
![Full size image]()
There's some very obvious periodic error on the RA worm.? Lets
throw the log through PEC prep to find? the period, shall we?
The sharp spike is 119 seconds, or half the worm period.? A quick
search online shows this is most likely slipping of the oldham
coupler.? I dont have oldham coupler, they are rigid, but they
could easily have been tightened down out of alignment, or even
slipping as? the worm rotates.? But other than the 119 second
period, nothing stands out at me as an issue.? I'm a bit relieved
that I don't see the dreaded 75 second spike.? Are there any other
obvious sources for 119-120 second PE?
I will attempt to re-align everything on the RA drivetrain to try
and center it better with the rigid coupler.? In two weeks I hope to
see my parents again for the first time since covid, and if I beg
and plead enough, maybe my dad will bring a couple turned down
helical couplers with him when they arrive.
But all in all, seems like a good start for this mount.? The
guide error was incredibly regular compared to my last mount which
was totally random, so nothing to tune out.? Considering the
clouds and he fact that I didnt bother setting up a wind break
(< 5 mph), I think this thing shows a lot of promise.? Glad to
finally be aboard the Losmandy train...
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks all,
-Tony
|
Brian,
To solve my present confusion, can you say:
1) At what serial number (stamped in the bottom of each unit) that you took the thick spacer out of the G11 mount design, which had been under the RA clutch knob.??
2) When that spacer was removed, did you also lengthen the body of the RA axis body to make up the spacer length???
Or is the RA threaded shaft made shorter to eliminate the need for the thick spacer?
Thanks, Michael
On Sun, May 2, 2021, 9:59 AM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: FYI the spacers are here if you need them:
Hi Pete
The design has changed through the years. spacers were added at some point due to design changes and enabling the clutch to tighten correctly.
If your clutch tightens, you don't need any additional spacer.?
you can watch our cleaning/greasing video and see the order of things on the axis.
Also FYI Belleville washers are not a losmandy part. They are a third party mod and not supported by Losmandy
Brian
Here is an image of my dismantled DEC axis of my CG11 mount.? The RA axis is the same.? ?From left to right there is there is the knurled clutch nut, Bellville washer, bearing thrust washer, needle thrust bearing and the the forward bearing thrust washer.? My question is to ask if I have all the parts that should be there?? Why am I asking this?? I noticed on newer G11 that there is a spacer between the knurled nut and the Bellville washer??
My mount does not currently have this but there is thread on both the RA and DEC shafts the permit such a spacer.? I believe a spacer may have been introduced at some point to act as a slip ring between the nut and the Bellville washer on later mounts.? It may very well be that my vintage of the G11 never had these spacers.? If not should I retro-fit them?
As ever, thanks for your help and your thoughts.
Pete
--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
FYI the spacers are here if you need them:
Hi Pete
The design has changed through the years. spacers were added at some point due to design changes and enabling the clutch to tighten correctly.
If your clutch tightens, you don't need any additional spacer.?
you can watch our cleaning/greasing video and see the order of things on the axis.
Also FYI Belleville washers are not a losmandy part. They are a third party mod and not supported by Losmandy
Brian
Here is an image of my dismantled DEC axis of my CG11 mount.? The RA axis is the same.? ?From left to right there is there is the knurled clutch nut, Bellville washer, bearing thrust washer, needle thrust bearing and the the forward bearing thrust washer.? My question is to ask if I have all the parts that should be there?? Why am I asking this?? I noticed on newer G11 that there is a spacer between the knurled nut and the Bellville washer??
My mount does not currently have this but there is thread on both the RA and DEC shafts the permit such a spacer.? I believe a spacer may have been introduced at some point to act as a slip ring between the nut and the Bellville washer on later mounts.? It may very well be that my vintage of the G11 never had these spacers.? If not should I retro-fit them?
As ever, thanks for your help and your thoughts.
Pete
--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Hi Pete
The design has changed through the years. spacers were added at some point due to design changes and enabling the clutch to tighten correctly.
If your clutch tightens, you don't need any additional spacer.?
you can watch our cleaning/greasing video and see the order of things on the axis.
Also FYI Belleville washers are not a losmandy part. They are a third party mod and not supported by Losmandy
Brian
Here is an image of my dismantled DEC axis of my CG11 mount.? The RA axis is the same.? ?From left to right there is there is the knurled clutch nut, Bellville washer, bearing thrust washer, needle thrust bearing and the the forward bearing thrust washer.? My question is to ask if I have all the parts that should be there?? Why am I asking this?? I noticed on newer G11 that there is a spacer between the knurled nut and the Bellville washer??
My mount does not currently have this but there is thread on both the RA and DEC shafts the permit such a spacer.? I believe a spacer may have been introduced at some point to act as a slip ring between the nut and the Bellville washer on later mounts.? It may very well be that my vintage of the G11 never had these spacers.? If not should I retro-fit them?
As ever, thanks for your help and your thoughts.
Pete
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Yes. You are missing a very thick aluminum cylindrical disk. Contact the factory to order replacements.
You can see that extra part at the bottom.of the DEC axis in this picture of a G11T.
Look at Mark Crossley's website?
For the assembly order that works best.
Good luck? Michael
Here is an image of my dismantled DEC axis of my CG11 mount.? The RA axis is the same.? ?From left to right there is there is the knurled clutch nut, Bellville washer, bearing thrust washer, needle thrust bearing and the the forward bearing thrust washer.? My question is to ask if I have all the parts that should be there?? Why am I asking this?? I noticed on newer G11 that there is a spacer between the knurled nut and the Bellville washer??
My mount does not currently have this but there is thread on both the RA and DEC shafts the permit such a spacer.? I believe a spacer may have been introduced at some point to act as a slip ring between the nut and the Bellville washer on later mounts.? It may very well be that my vintage of the G11 never had these spacers.? If not should I retro-fit them?
As ever, thanks for your help and your thoughts.
Pete
|
Hi Pete.? I have only seen reference to there being a spacer as you mentioned, but am not sure if older versions didn't have that.? Best to ask Losmandy tech support directly (which would most likely make its way directly to Scott).? Brian (from Losmandy) may chime in here.
Keith
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I feel that for the 492 user OnStep can be a big improvement. It eliminates the gearhead backlash and low resolution of the stock motor's 15¡ã?step angle. And they already have the needed hand control for non-goto use. Moving to goto only requires adding the Smart Hand Control, $25 as a kit, $40 assembled. With used 492 circuit boards going for $150, an OnStep conversion is a bargain.
Here's something I'm working on.
From the left two NEMA 17 0.9¡ã step angle motors ($11 each) the SHC and a what I'm calling The ESPduino/Hujer controller. The controller consists of a ESPduino and Roman Hujer's. The ESPduino is??powered. Supports goto, guiding, RTC, WiFi, BT, SHC and PEC with one additional function for OneWire, status LED, status2 LED, reticle LED or tone.?Roman remodified?the MaxESP3?pins to squeeze more out of ESPDuino.
I'm planning to sell the controller assembled less the drivers, WiFi and RTC for $25 and $35 with the WiFi and RTC for $35. LV8729 Drivers, which are fine for the 492 user are $5 each. What his means is that for a a user whose 492 has expired the outlay of about $60 and and some printed brackets they can have a improved, modern, modular, easy to repair control system and the ability to flirt with goto.
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Here is an image of my dismantled DEC axis of my CG11 mount.? The RA axis is the same.? ?From left to right there is there is the knurled clutch nut, Bellville washer, bearing thrust washer, needle thrust bearing and the the forward bearing thrust washer.? My question is to ask if I have all the parts that should be there?? Why am I asking this?? I noticed on newer G11 that there is a spacer between the knurled nut and the Bellville washer??
My mount does not currently have this but there is thread on both the RA and DEC shafts the permit such a spacer.? I believe a spacer may have been introduced at some point to act as a slip ring between the nut and the Bellville washer on later mounts.? It may very well be that my vintage of the G11 never had these spacers.? If not should I retro-fit them?
As ever, thanks for your help and your thoughts.
Pete
|
OnStep G11 First Light - 119 Second PE?
Hi All -
Well, the first shakedown run shook out a few bugs, but worked
through them eventually.? Overall, I think it was a successful
first light for my recently converted OnStep G11.? I think I know
what direction I want to head in, but wanted to get the opinion of
those that are familiar with the mount.? The G11 is from 2009, has
the two piece worm blocks (fresh bearings), and has not been run
in some years before I purchased it. ? I was shooting m63 and
m101, both at pretty close to zenith, and well north of the
celestial equator, so perhaps not a very challenging guide
target.? Still, I was pretty happy with a VERY consistent .75 to
.85 arc-sec RMS for a first try, especially considering I was
shooting through thin cloud cover the entire night.?
There's some very obvious periodic error on the RA worm.? Lets
throw the log through PEC prep to find? the period, shall we?
The sharp spike is 119 seconds, or half the worm period.? A quick
search online shows this is most likely slipping of the oldham
coupler.? I dont have oldham coupler, they are rigid, but they
could easily have been tightened down out of alignment, or even
slipping as? the worm rotates.? But other than the 119 second
period, nothing stands out at me as an issue.? I'm a bit relieved
that I don't see the dreaded 75 second spike.? Are there any other
obvious sources for 119-120 second PE?
I will attempt to re-align everything on the RA drivetrain to try
and center it better with the rigid coupler.? In two weeks I hope to
see my parents again for the first time since covid, and if I beg
and plead enough, maybe my dad will bring a couple turned down
helical couplers with him when they arrive.
But all in all, seems like a good start for this mount.? The
guide error was incredibly regular compared to my last mount which
was totally random, so nothing to tune out.? Considering the
clouds and he fact that I didnt bother setting up a wind break
(< 5 mph), I think this thing shows a lot of promise.? Glad to
finally be aboard the Losmandy train...
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks all,
-Tony
|
Re: Dec "drifts" randomly, after meridian flips...
Other than what has already been suggested, hmmm.....
Dec drift could come from PA which is off somehow. I usually start with PoleMaster, but double check with PHD2 drift align, the gold standard. These can differ to some degree. If your image frame is moving in one direction during the evening, that would confirm a PA issue.?
I assume you have tried recalibrating PHD2, especially if you are changing between two scopes. Using the right focal length in the brain settings is important. Any flexure in the guide cam, are the screws tight, focuser rack locked down?
The clutches can wear over time. Perhaps replace with new Losmandy ones or the Michael Herman high friction ones.
Do the Star Cross test in PHD2, see if the scope is moving as expected.
You'll probably have to just keeping working the problem to see if it is software or hardware.
Good luck Anthony.
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Re: Dec "drifts" randomly, after meridian flips...
I am probably a bit overzealous in my clutch tightening, and balance, so something would have to be tugging the mount pretty hard, which has happened to me and this doesn't look like that.
It's a good thought though.
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Re: Dec "drifts" randomly, after meridian flips...
I suppose I could run Guiding Assistant after this apparent settling has occurred, but given the Dec behavior after the settling, I think it would show much better PA.
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Re: Dec "drifts" randomly, after meridian flips...
I could have done a better job with the title of this post.
I meant to imply
Dec "drifts" randomly, (and also) after meridian flips...
I probably also should have specified "sometimes upon start up and sometimes after meridian flips".
Here is a log showing my Guiding Assistant run (#6 as shared)
And then the subsequent beginning of imaging for the evening (#8)
As Log Section 8 continues, Dec is balanced back and forth, which you can see if you check the log I shared.
As I mentioned in my above post:
"I have an issue that exhibits in PHD2 Guiding Assistant as bad polar alignment, and sometimes exhibits after a meridian flip, or when I start off the evening, with PHD2 "chasing" Dec on one side for a long time (15 minutes-1/2 hour?) before settling and acting normally again."
Hopefully this is more clear?
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Re: Dec "drifts" randomly, after meridian flips...
Anthony,
A simple thing that comes to mind is that the Dec clutch may be slipping a tiny bit, especially if all corrections are in one direction. My G11 clutches need retightening after continued use, and meridian flips seem to be a big contributor. After the flip, try snugging the Dec clutch a bit and see if that helps.? If still seeing bad Dec guiding, try returning to CWD, loosen both clutches and then retighten. You could have a situation where the motor is pushing, but gravity is dragging you backwards. You might also want to try cleaning the clutch discs as shown in the Losmandy YouTube video. After 3 years of use I was surprised how much oil actually seeped in there.
Best Regards,
John
|
Pete
Michael Herman