Re: Polaris alignment problem
Hi Rodney,
Good report and nice that you enjoyed the night.??
Here is some more info in case you want to build more a accurate sky model...at a "permanent" location.??
By doing a "Synch" only, you left your Gemini sky model parameters all "0" value. That is normally fine...the parameters should be near 0 value anyway.? You just did a Synch to the star closest to where you were looking.? Around there all will work well usually.??
To get an accurate model of the whole sky, you must further do an "Align" (it is different than "Synch") on more than one star to get the Gemini to calculate non-zero values.? I suggest you practice that on the handset to find the right button presses required.? The first star only dies a Synch anyway...the 2nd star does some calculations...
The instructions for best modeling are to "Align" to 3 stars on one side of the meridian (stay on either East or West for the first 3 stars), then align to 3 stars on the other side of meridian.??
?You can set that up easily to align to ANY sky object (not limited to tye hand controller list) using free sky charts, like Cartes du Ciel, or Stellarium (both work well with additional program Stellarium-Scope as an interface to ASCOM), with the very valuable Gemini.net applet via a PC connection ... and latest ASCOM.??
Have fun, Michael?
On Nov 5, 2017 9:24 AM, " f4chief73@... [Losmandy_users]" < Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
?
Something I want to note as well as far as building models, etc.?
During my recent learning curve of this new GOTO system, this being my very first, BTW, I went with our local Astronomy club here in Panama City, FL to a public viewing. I was very fortunate this night to have a guy there who also has a Losmandy / Gemini 2 system as well, and does astrophotography...
So after I did the set-up, level, etc...I borrowed another guys 12mm illuminated cross hair reticle for the Polar alignment. Everything looked good at this point. So, the guy with the Losmandy came over and talked me thru ?a one star alignment / Sync just to have a starting point.
So my point being, we did not do a bunch of high tech 4 or 5 star model building to start with. We did a one star, and started hitting targets with pretty good accuracy. But we had to incorporate 2 more star as we went to make it better, just using this menu:
Menu > GOTO > Bright Star > Center > Align > Sync......
This is all we did all night, and we had pretty good success...I also made my corrections for the GPS location as well, because I had been off on this as well, I found out. Plus not having a good Polar alignment...
Just wanted to throw that in there...
Rodney
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Re: Power supply needed on pier.
I think amperage also depends on the load. When I slew a really heavy setup, I see the amps much higher - 2-3Amp ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 8:21 AM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users] Power supply needed on pier.? ? Does the G-11 have the 492 digital drive or a Gemini? If it’s the 492, I’ve measured the power consumption at 250mA when tracking and 400mA slewing at 16x. Nowhere near 3A. And there’s no reason to run a higher voltage on the 492, as the “12V” input is regulated down to 5V.
That USB powered hub doesn’t consume 3A. That rating must be based on powering a bunch of other USB devices from the hub. The hub itself will use an insignificant amount of power, so just add up the the current requirements of whatever is powered from the hub.
For the Canon, you could use a switching regulator to convert 12V to 8V, something like this: <>
It would need less than 2.5A at 12V input to produce 3A/8V output.
-Les
> On 5 Nov 2017, at 3:40, tglynn72@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm trying to figure out the power requirements needed for my pier. In the description of the mount it says
>
> "Dual 12~18 VDC input/output (3.0 A)" is that the requirement or the output from the dual connection? The other items on the pier are:
>
> SBig stt-8300 with filter wheel (3.5a)
>
> zwo120mm ____?
>
> Canon 6D (8v, 3a) ?????
>
> USB 3.0 powered hub (3 amps)
>
> QHY polemaster camera (0.35W, 70 mA (approx.)
>
>
>
> I'm looking for a power supply to have enough amperage to run through a KMTronic usb 8 channel relay board.
>
>
>
> The Canon is another problem. Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> I'm trying to manage my cable system to a "WATCH OUT FOR THE WIRES" resolve. On my old G-! 11 I was running a 16v power supply. Is 16 volt better than 12 for my new G-11, or is that not the issue the amperage is the issue?
>
>
>
> My scopes on the mount are piggybacked
>
> ES127CF
>
> WO 81GTF
>
> Stellarvue SX50
>
>
>
> Thomas Glynn
>
> Happy astronomer
>
> Springfield MO
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Re: Polaris alignment problem
Why I bought a Losmandy to replace my iOptron. The alignment process works well. But the push-to slip clutches are a mixed blessing. Makes it easy to balance the scope when changing hardware config, tracks well, but if you bump it or have a collision the scope can shift. My old mount was different... was a pain to unclutch and if you hit something ... it broke or bent. And it was a beast to do anything to, not like the GM-8.
And the issue I encountered was a fluke because for the first time in months I can see the northern sky, and having made mechanical changes I wanted to try the sharpcap polar alignment tool. Worked really well, almost painless compared to the drift method I use the rest of the time.
Trying to add Polaris was probably a mistake... But by re-leveling CWD the physical shift was corrected and a synch to a previously aligned star put me back to where I wanted to be. So when I went to M1 it was right in the center... pity the Moon was so bright.
So I still don't understand what was obstructing the motion of the scope... I looked at the obvious stuff and didn't see anything. Maybe lube got on the plastic face in the right spot...?
Over the winter I will be looking north a lot, once the trees come back its lost. So any circumpolar objects must be looked at when the trees are bare. When they leaf in it will be all south...
greg
|
Re: Polaris alignment problem
Something I want to note as well as far as building models, etc.?
During my recent learning curve of this new GOTO system, this being my very first, BTW, I went with our local Astronomy club here in Panama City, FL to a public viewing. I was very fortunate this night to have a guy there who also has a Losmandy / Gemini 2 system as well, and does astrophotography...
So after I did the set-up, level, etc...I borrowed another guys 12mm illuminated cross hair reticle for the Polar alignment. Everything looked good at this point. So, the guy with the Losmandy came over and talked me thru ?a one star alignment / Sync just to have a starting point.
So my point being, we did not do a bunch of high tech 4 or 5 star model building to start with. We did a one star, and started hitting targets with pretty good accuracy. But we had to incorporate 2 more star as we went to make it better, just using this menu:
Menu > GOTO > Bright Star > Center > Align > Sync......
This is all we did all night, and we had pretty good success...I also made my corrections for the GPS location as well, because I had been off on this as well, I found out. Plus not having a good Polar alignment...
Just wanted to throw that in there...
Rodney
|
Re: Power supply needed on pier.
Does the G-11 have the 492 digital drive or a Gemini? If it’s the 492, I’ve measured the power consumption at 250mA when tracking and 400mA slewing at 16x. Nowhere near 3A. And there’s no reason to run a higher voltage on the 492, as the “12V” input is regulated down to 5V. That USB powered hub doesn’t consume 3A. That rating must be based on powering a bunch of other USB devices from the hub. The hub itself will use an insignificant amount of power, so just add up the the current requirements of whatever is powered from the hub. For the Canon, you could use a switching regulator to convert 12V to 8V, something like this: <> It would need less than 2.5A at 12V input to produce 3A/8V output. -Les On 5 Nov 2017, at 3:40, tglynn72@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the power requirements needed for my pier. In the description of the mount it says
"Dual 12~18 VDC input/output (3.0 A)" is that the requirement or the output from the dual connection? The other items on the pier are:
SBig stt-8300 with filter wheel (3.5a)
zwo120mm ____?
Canon 6D (8v, 3a) ?????
USB 3.0 powered hub (3 amps)
QHY polemaster camera (0.35W, 70 mA (approx.)
I'm looking for a power supply to have enough amperage to run through a KMTronic usb 8 channel relay board.
The Canon is another problem. Any help would be appreciated.
I'm trying to manage my cable system to a "WATCH OUT FOR THE WIRES" resolve. On my old G-! 11 I was running a 16v power supply. Is 16 volt better than 12 for my new G-11, or is that not the issue the amperage is the issue?
My scopes on the mount are piggybacked
ES127CF
WO 81GTF
Stellarvue SX50
Thomas Glynn
Happy astronomer
Springfield MO
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Re: Power supply needed on pier.
Hi Thomas
The G11 will be happiest with a voltage somewhere between 15-18v. I use a standard 12v battery and use a 12v upconverter (lots available on amazon, etc.)?
As for power on the pier for the other items, you can look at something like an anderson powerpole distributor
you have to end up building or modifying a lot of your own cables, but I end up with just one cable from the telescope to the ground (where the battery is).?
Canon camera is more tricky, since it isn't really geared for external batteries, the canon accessories are for external AC power.?
B
|
with the head being aluminum I am never quite sure that my 'level'
position is not the same as last time.
***
My solution to this..
?
When you are standing North of your CWD
Mount, use your little torpedo level on the side of the counterweight shaft
housing, but ‘push’ the level away from you.. to the South until it
hits the other parts of the mount.. Where the ‘pipe’ meets the ‘disk’
it is attached to.. In Losmandy’s video on this subject, you would push
the level used farther from the camera..
?
This makes it repeatable..
?
I can provide a picture if the words are
unclear..
?
Derek
?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017
5:23 AM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: [Losmandy_users] Re: GM-8
feature
?
?
Doesn't
matter... all I want is a consistent reference point to be able to restore the
CWD to. And I have a number of good tools like that (I am also a cabinetmaker),
but with the head being aluminum I am never quite sure that my 'level' position
is not the same as last time. If you are moving your setup around you either
start from scratch or resynch the model every time... or use plate solving to
point the scope or starhop. Fine for some stuff and not so great for others,
IMHO. Accuracy I don't care about... consistency I do. If I bump the
counterweight bar or have a cable snag that shifts the scope, I want to correct
things as quickly and painlessly as possible -- so a reliable reference point
is important to me. Around here, clear skies increasingly are narrow windows.
So every moment is precious...
|
Re: Power supply needed on pier.
Thomas,
Some of the power could be from one power supply, but you might find more noise in your images if your camera shares a "noisy" power supply -- where the noise comes from some other gadget taking supply current in pulses.? ?I think your cameras might work better with their own clean power supply...nothing shared.?
The other thing we now know about the G11 or other Losmandy mounts is that the motors have more torque and fewer "Lags" warnings if you use the higher end voltage like 16, 17, 18V, instead of like 12V.? ?(I recently made a 12V to 17V regulated converter box to boost the supply to the Gemini1,? and that also protects the unit from high voltage glitches too. )
Other than that.... you need to make up a spreadsheet to sum up the current demand at each voltage supply.? Tgen get power supplies at least 1 amp bigger than that..you cant trust today's suppliers to tell the truth (if you ever could).? My USB hubs have AC/DC supplies rated either 12V 1 amp for my USB3, or 5V 1 amp for my USB2. Yours could be different...be careful.
Have fun,
Michael?
On Nov 5, 2017 3:40 AM, " tglynn72@... [Losmandy_users]" < Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
?
I'm trying to figure out the power requirements needed for my pier.? In the description of the mount it says? "Dual 12~18 VDC input/output (3.0 A)"? is that the requirement or the output from the dual connection?? The other items on the pier are: SBig stt-8300 with filter wheel? (3.5a) zwo120mm ____? Canon 6D? (8v, 3a)? ?????? USB 3.0 powered hub? (3 amps) QHY polemaster camera? (0.35W, 70 mA (approx.)
I'm looking for a power supply to have enough amperage to run through a KMTronic usb 8 channel relay board.??
The Canon is another problem.? ?Any help would be appreciated.??
?I'm trying to manage my cable system to a "WATCH OUT FOR THE WIRES" resolve.? On my old G-11 I was running a 16v power supply.? Is 16 volt better than 12 for my new G-11, or is that not the issue the amperage is the issue???
My scopes on the mount are piggybacked? ES127CF WO 81GTF Stellarvue SX50
Thomas Glynn Happy astronomer?? Springfield MO
|
Doesn't matter... all I want is a consistent reference point to be able to restore the CWD to. And I have a number of good tools like that (I am also a cabinetmaker), but with the head being aluminum I am never quite sure that my 'level' position is not the same as last time. If you are moving your setup around you either start from scratch or resynch the model every time... or use plate solving to point the scope or starhop. Fine for some stuff and not so great for others, IMHO. Accuracy I don't care about... consistency I do. If I bump the counterweight bar or have a cable snag that shifts the scope, I want to correct things as quickly and painlessly as possible -- so a reliable reference point is important to me. Around here, clear skies increasingly are narrow windows. So every moment is precious...
greg
|
Power supply needed on pier.
I'm trying to figure out the power requirements needed for my pier.? In the description of the mount it says? "Dual 12~18 VDC input/output (3.0 A)"? is that the requirement or the output from the dual connection?? The other items on the pier are: SBig stt-8300 with filter wheel? (3.5a) zwo120mm ____? Canon 6D? (8v, 3a)? ?????? USB 3.0 powered hub? (3 amps) QHY polemaster camera? (0.35W, 70 mA (approx.)
I'm looking for a power supply to have enough amperage to run through a KMTronic usb 8 channel relay board.??
The Canon is another problem.? ?Any help would be appreciated.??
?I'm trying to manage my cable system to a "WATCH OUT FOR THE WIRES" resolve.? On my old G-11 I was running a 16v power supply.? Is 16 volt better than 12 for my new G-11, or is that not the issue the amperage is the issue???
My scopes on the mount are piggybacked? ES127CF WO 81GTF Stellarvue SX50
Thomas Glynn Happy astronomer?? Springfield MO
|
Hey Greg I can not image (or see for that matter- hehe) from my near L.A. home, so I travel to locations and set up to image like so many people, and, I use only a visual (with ref to tripod) to establish CWD position.? Works fine.
If you like things like this, get yourself a good machinists level... (JK, don't do it, you'll spend all night trying to find "level" Ha. all levels are not the same)
Level (or plumb) is what you think it is... (an exaggeration, yes)
|
What I had been thinking about was mounting a small level on an angle bracket on the DEC axis. I have been using a small lanyard level from Lee Valley in the dome for this... but the rounded shape of the DEC axis housing makes it easy to make mistakes when verifying CWD. My present level is magnetic... normally lives on the pier -- adding a plate to the underside of the scope on the dovetail and one here would provide solid reference points. That is the thought, anyhow.
greg
|
Re: Leveling the Mount - I don't see the importance
I get the mount reasonably level because it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling...? and takes literally seconds. That being said,It is however probably completely pointless.
-Jeff
|
Re: Leveling the Mount - I don't see the importance
Dave,
Levelling the mount is useful for repeatability and takes only a minute or two.
The more accurately you start should speed up the aligning.
Regards
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Lately I have read many posts that put a lot of emphasis on leveling the mount accurately.? I may show my ignorance here but I just do not see leveling the mount as being very important.? What is important is aligning the polar axis with the Earth's axis.? How the polar axis is supported has no bearing on anything that I can see.? Everything would work just as well if the mount could levitate as long as the polar axis is properly aligned with the Earth's rotational axis.? I view spending a lot of time leveling the mount as a waste of a lot of time.? Now it may make your latitude (elevation) scale read a bit more accurately but you are probably going to have to adjust this anyway to achieve polar alignment - so why worry so much. Please tell me what I am missing.? I don't spend time leveling my mount every time I take it out.? It still works just fine after polar alignment.? CWD is still CWD. ? Nothing really changes except it takes you longer to set up if you level your mount. Dave...
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Re: Leveling the Mount - I don't see the importance
Dave, you are absolutely right. Leveling the mount might also make drift alignment slightly faster, but only if you’re using a star almost exactly on the meridian. Once the polar axis is made parallel to the Earth’s axis, the mount doesn’t care how it got there.?
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On Nov 4, 2017, at 3:35 PM, cochrun@... [Losmandy_users] < Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
Lately I have read many posts that put a lot of emphasis on leveling the mount accurately.? I may show my ignorance here but I just do not see leveling the mount as being very important.? What is important is aligning the polar axis with the Earth's axis.? How the polar axis is supported has no bearing on anything that I can see.? Everything would work just as well if the mount could levitate as long as the polar axis is properly aligned with the Earth's rotational axis.? I view spending a lot of time leveling the mount as a waste of a lot of time.? Now it may make your latitude (elevation) scale read a bit more accurately but you are probably going to have to adjust this anyway to achieve polar alignment - so why worry so much. Please tell me what I am missing.? I don't spend time leveling my mount every time I take it out.? It still works just fine after polar alignment.? CWD is still CWD.!
? Nothing really changes except it takes you longer to set up if you level your mount. Dave...
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Re: Polaris alignment problem
If your mount? did move into the ground, there is an easy solution to this.? I sweep the gound or blacktop of any debris and then place 1/2" pieces of wood on the ground and then place the mount legs on these would pieces so the legs wont dig in.? The wood pieces are about 8 x 8 in pine.
John Hobbs
hobbs_john@...
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-----Original Message-----
From: David Pickett yahoo@... [Losmandy_users]
To: Losmandy_users
Sent: Sat, Nov 4, 2017 2:35 pm
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users] Polaris alignment problem
?
At 15:28 04-11-17, glatiak@... [Losmandy_users] wrote:
>
>Had an interesting problem last night redoing the alignment and
>pointing model on my relatively new GM-8. Normally, the northern sky
>is obscured by trees in my location -- but seasonal change and
>recent windy weather has cleared the view.
>
>After redoing my polar alignment, I was adding stars to my model and
>decided to try for Polaris. Got it into the FOV with no problem, was
>just a bit off. For this I have the HBX motor set to 'center' -- DEC
>adjustment seemed fine, but I needed to move a bit in RA and found
>that there was great reluctance to this. I had to hold the button
>down for an extended period to see any movement at all. Finally got
>it centered, did the alignment. But subsequent gotos were off -- as
>though the scope had slid on the clutches. No apparent mechanical
>issues, cables loose, scope was fully balanced. Clutches as tight as
>seemed reasonable.
>
>So I parked things, shut it off, dug out the level, found that the
>RA had shifted a bit. Corrected it and restarted. Now the goto's were dead on.
Not wishing to be insult you; but are you sure that the mount was
still level and that one of the legs hadnt dug itself further into the ground?
David
|
Leveling the Mount - I don't see the importance
Lately I have read many posts that put a lot of emphasis on leveling the mount accurately.? I may show my ignorance here but I just do not see leveling the mount as being very important.? What is important is aligning the polar axis with the Earth's axis.? How the polar axis is supported has no bearing on anything that I can see.? Everything would work just as well if the mount could levitate as long as the polar axis is properly aligned with the Earth's rotational axis.? I view spending a lot of time leveling the mount as a waste of a lot of time.? Now it may make your latitude (elevation) scale read a bit more accurately but you are probably going to have to adjust this anyway to achieve polar alignment - so why worry so much. Please tell me what I am missing.? I don't spend time leveling my mount every time I take it out.? It still works just fine after polar alignment.? CWD is still CWD.? Nothing really changes except it takes you longer to set up if you level your mount. Dave...
|
Re: Polaris alignment problem
At 22:05 04-11-17, glatiak@... [Losmandy_users] wrote:
The head is on a pier that is in concrete... there is a magnetic level on the column. So no... one leg did not dig into the ground further...
It was just a stupid idea! Sorry it's not something so simple. David
|
Greg,
Nope. But if you have a good idea of what we can use them for I would go and see what fasteners fit in those holes.?
Chip
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Re: Polaris alignment problem
The head is on a pier that is in concrete... there is a magnetic level on the column. So no... one leg did not dig into the ground further...
g
|
Michael Herman
photon_trap
David Cochrun