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Re: PEC training
PS i hope that didn't sound snarky i meant it as a compliment. usually it takes me days haha It's a constant learning curve for everyone.? On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 12:37 PM Brian Valente via <bvalente=[email protected]> wrote:
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Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: PEC training
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?I know a lot more about what I am dealing with now than I did this morning ;) that's how it should work :) On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 12:35 PM Paul Goelz <pgoelz@...> wrote: On 12/12/2020 3:26 PM, Brian Valente wrote: --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: PEC training
On 12/12/2020 3:26 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
no one ever seems to think seeing conditions are ever a variable ;)Not me. To me, seeing is a HUGE variable. When I went back and loaded older logs, I found similar signals but the overall frequency domain was a lot more noisy. That makes sense because the troublesome session from the 10th was probably the best seeing I have had in a month. The older session had a lot of random noise due to seeing. The end result is that the session on the 10th LOOKED worse because the signals were much farther out of the noise floor. In truth, they may be the same amplitude.... just more buried in the noise so they LOOKED lower. If I seem to be contradicting myself, it is only because I am learning minute by minute from this process. I know a lot more about what I am dealing with now than I did this morning ;) Paul -- Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA pgoelz@... www.pgoelz.com |
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Re: PEC training
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Your included image looks perfectly understandable to me.? It shows RA errors at three important frequencies.... worm, worm X2 and worm bearing.? It also matches the frequency domain plot I get in PECPrep. Sorry i didn't mean that.? i meant they are extremely noisey - normally i see just a simple distribution curve and a smooth hump. Yours has many spikes in and around those periods. that suggests to me there is mis-alignment of your PEC which i would expect in a low quality PE correction, such as using PHD and recording it (the guiding adjustments happen after the actual event) I realize PEMPro isn't free, but if you are really focused on getting the most from your mount, it is a good investment. you just aren't going to get a high quality PE correction any other way (at least right now). On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 3:31 AM Paul Goelz <pgoelz@...> wrote: On 12/11/2020 11:46 PM, Brian Valente wrote: --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: PEC training
no one ever seems to think seeing conditions are ever a variable ;) On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 4:24 AM Paul Goelz <pgoelz@...> wrote: On 12/12/2020 6:31 AM, Paul Goelz wrote: --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: PEC training
you can select log portions in PEMPro Log Viewer On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 12:16 PM Paul Goelz <pgoelz@...> wrote: On 12/12/2020 2:26 PM, Cyclone wrote: --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: multi-star PHD2!
Gaston (the CEO of innovations foresight) is a brilliant guy and i'm currently working with him on his wavefront analysis software for colimation etc.? he's got a lot of great ideas, very advanced stuff ONAG is not for everyone, for sure. I had one, and it just never worked well for me. I get the feeling it's more like research-grade situations. just my opinion i ended up selling it On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:35 AM John Kmetz <jjkmetz54@...> wrote: Thanks for the feedback Brian. ONAG is a bit pricey for my tastes, and is probably overkill for the intermediate range setups I use. Eager to see how multi-star might improve guiding with my guide scope and the ASI290Mini. --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: PEC training
On 12/12/2020 2:26 PM, Cyclone wrote:
At the beginning and end of the log, when you stated PEC is off, the main frequency components are 1x, 2x and 3.15x.I had another think on this and I see what you are getting at. At the beginning and ends of the session in question, PEC was off. In the middle it was on and recently trained. However, when I load the log into PECPrep, it loads the entire log and the amplitudes of the three signals in question are the average for the whole session so I can't tell how they compare relative each other. Because it looks like it will be cloudy for the next decade here so I can't create another log, I'll try cutting the existing log into pieces and see if I can isolate sections with PEC on and with PEC off for analysis. Unless there is a hidden tool to do that in PECPrep? Paul -- Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA pgoelz@... www.pgoelz.com |
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Re: PEC training
On 12/12/2020 2:26 PM, Cyclone wrote:
Therefore, I would rebuild the PEC curve using the 1x and 2x components only. The 3.15x component can only be resolved by mechanical alignment, not PEC.Thanks Eric, it had not occurred to me that PEC could not remove anything that was not exactly in phase with the worm rotation period. But of course that makes sense now that I think of it since the phase of the bearing signal relative the worm period drifts from one worm revolution to the next. I find the cost of PEMPro to be a bit prohibitive at $149 so I may end up either using the demo period to create a PEC curve or just leave PEC off and keep an eye on things. And of course it cannot address the major source of error.... the worm bearing. Actually, most of the time my guiding has been quite satisfactory. This last session was worse than usual and since the major culprit seems to be the worm bearing, that might explain why it was not present in prior sessions. It also might benefit from some adjustment. If I go by the Losmandy video, the rotation angle of the far end bearing block is not well controlled during adjustment and could easily be slightly cocked since the only thing that controls its rotation around the vertical axis is the bearing itself as you press the blocks together. Note that at present, the mount is only a couple months old and the RA is so far as-received. Since it usually works fine, I am not chomping at the bit to tear into it. At least not until I have a goodly string of starry nights ;) As received, I also had a DEC backlash issue that was easy to work on and solve because I could validate the adjustments on a terrestrial target during the day. But the RA axis needs stars to evaluate tracking and they are in VERY short supply right now here in SE Michigan :( Has anyone tried to evaluate tracking during the day using PHD2 on an artificial star while tracking at the sidereal rate? One worm period is what.... one degree? That means I could (barely) keep the star in my guide scope FOV for one worm period. If there was a way to load the guide log (guiding disabled) and subtract the steady state drift, it should reveal any inconsistencies in movement. ?? HEY.... the sun just came out! I think it is taunting me..... Paul -- Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA pgoelz@... www.pgoelz.com |
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Re: PEC training
Sonny Edmonds
I love sitting in the back of the class room with discussions like this.
I'm beginning to confirm things I thought I was seeing correctly, but wasn't sure. I hope to be more observant of my RMS error [px], I know my RA Osc is very low, Often 0.0X, and never higher than 0.1X. I don't recall my total RMS error, off hand. OK, I'll shut up and listen more.... -- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen) |
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Re: [Losmandy_usekrs_io] PEC training
Sonny Edmonds
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 03:22 PM, Arun Hegde wrote:
a short focal lengthHey Arun, I resemble that remark... LOL! I tried really hard for a month with 2 different OAG's when starting out. For all the same reason's of sampling the same picture the telescope was seeing. But alas, I could not make it work with my 80 mm refractor, and it's 480 mm focal length. So I finally gave up and got a guide scope, with the same camera I'd been trying, and found instant success. Very recently I changed to a higher resolution ASI290MM camera for guiding. I like the improvement it has given me. But yeah, Short focal length. That's me. LOL! ;^) Happy Holidays Bud! ? -- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen) |
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Re: PEC training
Paul,
I reviewed your PHD2 log and here are my findings. At the beginning and end of the log, when you stated PEC is off, the main frequency components are 1x, 2x and 3.15x. In the middle of the log, when PEC is on, the 1x and 2x components are well corrected and there is an added 3x component that was not there before. It indicates you probably included the 3x frequency in your PEC curve in an attempt to correct the 3.15x component, but this will not work. This will cause a beat frequency between the 3x and 3.15x components (they will go in and out of phase, causing worse PE at its peak). Therefore, I would rebuild the PEC curve using the 1x and 2x components only. The 3.15x component can only be resolved by mechanical alignment, not PEC. Eric |
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Re: Loud motor noise in new G811G
Sonny Edmonds
Hi Bill,
Like I was explaining to someone the other day, your mount does need some actual run in time to smooth out the gearing. The gear pattern in these mounts is what's known as a bull gear. They are the strongest design, but are the noisiest. Even as tiny as they seem. I did that same initial adjustment Scott Losmandy shows and it did a little improvement to my GM811G. But what has done the most improvement to quiet my mount down has been my exorbitant use of it. I'm out there almost every available night. So my mount really gets run a LOT. Weather wise, I'm a power user of my mount. ;^) And over the past 10 months has gotten quieter and quieter. Not silent. But more a whirr than it was when brand new. I have never done that motor adjustment since the first time. Here's my post in that thread Brian offered you:?/g/Losmandy_users/message/68577 I picked up my new mount 2020-02-04. So it is less than 1 year old. I had a bit of a rough time at first, because I had to unlearn several bad habits I used to run my old Chinese mount (Good Riddance!) But in the past 10 months, the drive train of my 811 has gotten a lot quieter. In my opinion, it needs to "break in". Also, I do not put a lot of faith in PHD2's graph. Granted, it is something to look at. But there are so many other variables in play, it is not, and can not, be relied on as a gospel to mount performance. PHD2 is a reference to what was happening at the time it was recorded. But the proof is in the pudding of the results, and in long exposure imaging. Some examples: , . In that respect, I can attest to amazing results when your new mount smoothes out. Maybe some headphones or ear plugs? LOL! ;^) -- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen) |
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Re: Loud motor noise in new G811G
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On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 9:00 AM Bill Tschumy <bill@...> wrote: Group, --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Loud motor noise in new G811G
Group,
I received my new G811G yesterday. Assembly was straightforward and I had no trouble attaching the motors. To my dismay, when moving using the HC, the RA motor was quite loud. The Dec motor was also a bit loud but I could probably live with it. I do still have my 8 year old GM8 with Gemini 1 and both motors there are significantly quieter. I emailed Brian about it and he pointed me to this video: As shown in the video, I tried loosening and rotating the motors to find a quieter position. There wasn¡¯t much rotational slop to work with but I did get it slightly quieter, but still not acceptable. I found that if I push the RA motor housing up, towards the mount, then it would become even quieter but there was no way to keep it in this position other than maybe putting a shim in somewhere. Brian suggested I ask the group if they have any ideas on this. It seems to me that there is some adjustment in the gearbox that is needed to get things to mesh better. Here is a sound recording to show what I¡¯m hearing (hopefully the sound recording will come through the email): Thanks, Bill -- Bill Tschumy Otherwise -- Longmont, CO www.otherwise.com |
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Re: [Losmandy_usekrs_io] PEC training
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI am going to put a 2X barlow in front of the SX guide camera and use binning on my SX 814. I will then see if that has an improvement. I am sure it will. I have used the 2x Barlow in the past when I had an F10 C11 and it helped. I had just forgot about it until I bought this SX 814 and its smaller pixels. Thanks for reminding me. ? Aubrey ? ? ? Sent from for Windows 10 ? From: Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 7:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] [Losmandy_usekrs_io] PEC training ? Aubrey if you are going to stick with your current setup, i suggest binning your imaging camera bin 2. that will definitely help ? On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 4:47 PM Aubrey Brickhouse <abrickhouse1@...> wrote:
? -- Brian? ? ? ? Brian Valente portfolio ? |
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Re: multi-star PHD2!
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
My guide camera is still functioning only intermittently, but on the one night I was able to try multi-star, my typical guiding around .5" -.7" RMS went down to as low as about .3"!
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 1:10 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] multi-star PHD2! ?
let us know how it goes!
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 10:56 PM John Kmetz <jjkmetz54@...> wrote:
After all this discussion, I downloaded PHD2 Guiding 2.6.9dev2 with the multi-star option tonight to give it a try. After running the installer app, I opened and found my old profiles and settings were still intact. Nice! Now waiting for a clear night! Brian?
Brian Valente
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Re: PEC training
On 12/12/2020 6:31 AM, Paul Goelz wrote:
Today I am going to have a look at all the old PHD2 logs that are stored from past sessions and see if there is anything consistent in them.Replying to my self..... I had a look at the other stored PHD2 logs and while I find the same worm, worm x2 and bearing signals, they are not as significant and guiding was more precise. That leaves me puzzled as to why the session we have been talking about was noticeably worse. The only thing that is different is that this was the first guided session using my new Polemaster. The Polemaster worked perfectly so the PA for this troublesome session was possibly more precise than previous (casually drift aligned) sessions. ???? Paul -- Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA pgoelz@... www.pgoelz.com |
Jamie Amendolagine
Bill Tschumy
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