Hi Michael
This is exactly the flow I thought that I needed to take
thanks so much for confirming:
Power up gemini.net first then
power up Gemini2 in horizontal parked position , Unpark , goto, align (or synch ?)? on hand control, then repeat addition same obj goto align ( or synch ? ) on Gemini.net
but unfortunately this is the reason I posted the question because Its not yet worked out for me
but now I know that its gotta be operator error? ... working on it
Thanks again
Ron
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Hi Ron
For DSO targets like you showed (and wow, that is a demanding focal length) it would be easier than that:
- cold start from CWD each night - press "start sequence" from SGP - go to bed :)
i simplified that a bit, but basically that's what I do each night.
You just start and end each night from CWD position (SGP will park it in CWD position when it's done imaging)
you cold start because you do not need to build a model, plate solving handles everything for you
When I first heard about this, it sounded like magic, but it turns out it works, and it IS kinda magical :) there are many others here who work similarly with SGP, NINA, and other similar packages
Brian
Ah yes Now Im Starting to understand the utility of SGP and NINA which I have not seriously imaged with as ?SharpCap is so easy, hard to stop Yes, my setup is fixed ? So are you saying that from my horizontal Home Position, ?I could power on Gemini2, then using SGP can do a direct goto by plate solve? ? Ron ? Hi Ron Yes, unless (or until?) you move to more sophisticated DSO type software (think sequence generator pro, NINA, etc.) plate solve probably won't help you with your gotos Are you tearing down and setting up every night, or do you have a fixed setup you just start up each night? ? HI Brian ? That doesn¡¯t sound very easy ? Hutech IDAS LPF Imaging live stacking via SharpCapPro Ive not yet seen the utility of plate solving ¡ Im waiting for such insight from my gurus ? Prime focus 10 inch Orion RC 2000mm fl f/8? ASI 1600mm Guide 80mm 400mm fl ?f/5? ASI 533mc Only ?53 lb counterweight ? PEMPRO, PHD2 ? heres a recent result , no flats, no darks, slight out of collimation but stars are roundish ?( just hate the bloat with sharpening) 100sec x 81 frames ? ? Thanks again for your insight and suggestions Ron ? ? ? ? Can you describe your imaging setup?? The easiest to do is cold start and plate solve every night. It depends on your setup.? ? Wow guys thanks so much for your attention ? ?so again i¡¯m using a Gemini 2 my goal is to keep the model And go directly to the target In Easiest Manner with as less start up procedures possible ? ?I was hoping to turn on from the parked horizontal position, do a go to from the park position , align, and go to Target In other words all beginning initially? from the park position - impossible? ? Want to easily get back to re-imaging the same object the night before and since I moved to park would presume all I Gotta do is turn on and go back to the target ? ? ? ?so you¡¯re telling me I have two options: ? ? ? ?1).? park @ CWD, Turn off Gemini,?? then move the scope manually to the horizontal position so I can close the roof Then to Awaken I would Firstmanually move to CWD and then turn on Gemini , warm restart,? go to and sink on first target ? 2 ). hand control command move the scope the Home position (which is horizontal )turn her off close the roof.? Then to awaken first? manually position to CWD then power up Gemini Warm restart go to sync ? All of this seems so tedious - the model is there !? ? I suppose even after parking Yet leaving power on then unpark I still have to do a CWD warm restart and then go to align? ? What about the sleep mode? ? ?I can¡¯t just turn her on and go directly to the target rather than beginning always at CWD? ? Ron ? ? ? ?
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-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Ah yes Now Im Starting to understand the utility of SGP and NINA which I have not seriously imaged with as ?SharpCap is so easy, hard to stop Yes, my setup is fixed ? So are you saying that from my horizontal Home Position, ?I could power on Gemini2, then using SGP can do a direct goto by plate solve? ? Ron
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From: Brian ValenteSent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 7:30 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Restarting Gemini2 ? Hi Ron Yes, unless (or until?) you move to more sophisticated DSO type software (think sequence generator pro, NINA, etc.) plate solve probably won't help you with your gotos Are you tearing down and setting up every night, or do you have a fixed setup you just start up each night? ? HI Brian ? That doesn¡¯t sound very easy ? Hutech IDAS LPF Imaging live stacking via SharpCapPro Ive not yet seen the utility of plate solving ¡ Im waiting for such insight from my gurus ? Prime focus 10 inch Orion RC 2000mm fl f/8? ASI 1600mm Guide 80mm 400mm fl ?f/5? ASI 533mc Only ?53 lb counterweight ? PEMPRO, PHD2 ? heres a recent result , no flats, no darks, slight out of collimation but stars are roundish ?( just hate the bloat with sharpening) 100sec x 81 frames ? ? Thanks again for your insight and suggestions Ron ? ? ? ? Can you describe your imaging setup?? The easiest to do is cold start and plate solve every night. It depends on your setup.? ? Wow guys thanks so much for your attention ? ?so again i¡¯m using a Gemini 2 my goal is to keep the model And go directly to the target In Easiest Manner with as less start up procedures possible ? ?I was hoping to turn on from the parked horizontal position, do a go to from the park position , align, and go to Target In other words all beginning initially? from the park position - impossible? ? Want to easily get back to re-imaging the same object the night before and since I moved to park would presume all I Gotta do is turn on and go back to the target ? ? ? ?so you¡¯re telling me I have two options: ? ? ? ?1).? park @ CWD, Turn off Gemini,?? then move the scope manually to the horizontal position so I can close the roof Then to Awaken I would Firstmanually move to CWD and then turn on Gemini , warm restart,? go to and sink on first target ? 2 ). hand control command move the scope the Home position (which is horizontal )turn her off close the roof.? Then to awaken first? manually position to CWD then power up Gemini Warm restart go to sync ? All of this seems so tedious - the model is there !? ? I suppose even after parking Yet leaving power on then unpark I still have to do a CWD warm restart and then go to align? ? What about the sleep mode? ? ?I can¡¯t just turn her on and go directly to the target rather than beginning always at CWD? ? Ron ? ? ? ?
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Hi Ron
Yes, unless (or until?) you move to more sophisticated DSO type software (think sequence generator pro, NINA, etc.) plate solve probably won't help you with your gotos
Are you tearing down and setting up every night, or do you have a fixed setup you just start up each night?
HI Brian ? That doesn¡¯t sound very easy ? Hutech IDAS LPF Imaging live stacking via SharpCapPro Ive not yet seen the utility of plate solving ¡ Im waiting for such insight from my gurus ? Prime focus 10 inch Orion RC 2000mm fl f/8? ASI 1600mm Guide 80mm 400mm fl ?f/5? ASI 533mc Only ?53 lb counterweight ? PEMPRO, PHD2 ? heres a recent result , no flats, no darks, slight out of collimation but stars are roundish ?( just hate the bloat with sharpening) 100sec x 81 frames ? ? Thanks again for your insight and suggestions Ron ? ? ? ? Can you describe your imaging setup?? The easiest to do is cold start and plate solve every night. It depends on your setup.? ? Wow guys thanks so much for your attention ? ?so again i¡¯m using a Gemini 2 my goal is to keep the model And go directly to the target In Easiest Manner with as less start up procedures possible ? ?I was hoping to turn on from the parked horizontal position, do a go to from the park position , align, and go to Target In other words all beginning initially? from the park position - impossible? ? Want to easily get back to re-imaging the same object the night before and since I moved to park would presume all I Gotta do is turn on and go back to the target ? ? ? ?so you¡¯re telling me I have two options: ? ? ? ?1).? park @ CWD, Turn off Gemini,?? then move the scope manually to the horizontal position so I can close the roof Then to Awaken I would Firstmanually move to CWD and then turn on Gemini , warm restart,? go to and sink on first target ? 2 ). hand control command move the scope the Home position (which is horizontal )turn her off close the roof.? Then to awaken first? manually position to CWD then power up Gemini Warm restart go to sync ? All of this seems so tedious - the model is there !? ? I suppose even after parking Yet leaving power on then unpark I still have to do a CWD warm restart and then go to align? ? What about the sleep mode? ? ?I can¡¯t just turn her on and go directly to the target rather than beginning always at CWD? ? Ron ? ? ? ?
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-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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HI Brian ? That doesn¡¯t sound very easy ? Hutech IDAS LPF Imaging live stacking via SharpCapPro Ive not yet seen the utility of plate solving ¡ Im waiting for such insight from my gurus ? Prime focus 10 inch Orion RC 2000mm fl f/8? ASI 1600mm Guide 80mm 400mm fl ?f/5? ASI 533mc Only ?53 lb counterweight ? PEMPRO, PHD2 ? heres a recent result , no flats, no darks, slight out of collimation but stars are roundish ?( just hate the bloat with sharpening) 100sec x 81 frames ? ? Thanks again for your insight and suggestions Ron ? ? ?
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From: Brian ValenteSent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 6:36 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Restarting Gemini2 ? Can you describe your imaging setup?? The easiest to do is cold start and plate solve every night. It depends on your setup.? ? Wow guys thanks so much for your attention ? ?so again i¡¯m using a Gemini 2 my goal is to keep the model And go directly to the target In Easiest Manner with as less start up procedures possible ? ?I was hoping to turn on from the parked horizontal position, do a go to from the park position , align, and go to Target In other words all beginning initially? from the park position - impossible? ? Want to easily get back to re-imaging the same object the night before and since I moved to park would presume all I Gotta do is turn on and go back to the target ? ? ? ?so you¡¯re telling me I have two options: ? ? ? ?1).? park @ CWD, Turn off Gemini,?? then move the scope manually to the horizontal position so I can close the roof Then to Awaken I would Firstmanually move to CWD and then turn on Gemini , warm restart,? go to and sink on first target ? 2 ). hand control command move the scope the Home position (which is horizontal )turn her off close the roof.? Then to awaken first? manually position to CWD then power up Gemini Warm restart go to sync ? All of this seems so tedious - the model is there !? ? I suppose even after parking Yet leaving power on then unpark I still have to do a CWD warm restart and then go to align? ? What about the sleep mode? ? ?I can¡¯t just turn her on and go directly to the target rather than beginning always at CWD? ? Ron ? ? ? ?
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Hi Ron,
Of your options, #1 will surely work...but not what you want ideally.
Your #2 option is wrong...here's how you should be doing that:?
Do start at CWD from Cold Bout and align, build your model etc.?
When you go to Park the mount:
Do: slew to the horizontal.??
Do not?: turn off Gemini after you slew to the horizontal position.??
You must tell Gemini: Park.? Then select:? Park at Current Position.?? Then...turn off the power.
When you reboot Gemini, use Warm Boot and skip any alignment. It already should remember it's alignment from the Warm Boot information.
Try that....it should?work for you!
Also if you have Gemini.net on your PC there is a drop down selection for Park at Current Position.? ?That is a nice way to do it!
Let us know!!!
Best, Michael
Wow guys thanks so much for your attention
?so again i¡¯m using a Gemini 2 my goal is to keep the model And go directly to the target In Easiest Manner with as less start up procedures possible
?I was hoping to turn on from the parked horizontal position, do a go to from the park position , align, and go to Target In other words all beginning initially? from the park position - impossible?
Want to easily get back to re-imaging the same object the night before and since I moved to park would presume all I Gotta do is turn on and go back to the target
?
?so you¡¯re telling me I have two options:
?
?1).? park @ CWD, Turn off Gemini,?? then move the scope manually to the horizontal position so I can close the roof Then to Awaken I would Firstmanually move to CWD and then turn on Gemini , warm restart,? go to and sink on first target
2 ). hand control command move the scope the Home position (which is horizontal )turn her off close the roof.? Then to awaken first? manually position to CWD then power up Gemini Warm restart go to sync
All of this seems so tedious - the model is there !?
I suppose even after parking Yet leaving power on then unpark I still have to do a CWD warm restart and then go to align?
What about the sleep mode?
?I can¡¯t just turn her on and go directly to the target rather than beginning always at CWD?
Ron
?
?
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Hi Ron
Can you describe your imaging setup??
The easiest to do is cold start and plate solve every night. It depends on your setup.?
Wow guys thanks so much for your attention
?so again i¡¯m using a Gemini 2 my goal is to keep the model And go directly to the target In Easiest Manner with as less start up procedures possible
?I was hoping to turn on from the parked horizontal position, do a go to from the park position , align, and go to Target In other words all beginning initially? from the park position - impossible?
Want to easily get back to re-imaging the same object the night before and since I moved to park would presume all I Gotta do is turn on and go back to the target
?
?so you¡¯re telling me I have two options:
?
?1).? park @ CWD, Turn off Gemini,?? then move the scope manually to the horizontal position so I can close the roof Then to Awaken I would Firstmanually move to CWD and then turn on Gemini , warm restart,? go to and sink on first target
2 ). hand control command move the scope the Home position (which is horizontal )turn her off close the roof.? Then to awaken first? manually position to CWD then power up Gemini Warm restart go to sync
All of this seems so tedious - the model is there !?
I suppose even after parking Yet leaving power on then unpark I still have to do a CWD warm restart and then go to align?
What about the sleep mode?
?I can¡¯t just turn her on and go directly to the target rather than beginning always at CWD?
Ron
?
?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Wow guys thanks so much for your attention
?so again i¡¯m using a Gemini 2 my goal is to keep the model And go directly to the target In Easiest Manner with as less start up procedures possible
?I was hoping to turn on from the parked horizontal position, do a go to from the park position , align, and go to Target In other words all beginning initially? from the park position - impossible?
Want to easily get back to re-imaging the same object the night before and since I moved to park would presume all I Gotta do is turn on and go back to the target
?
?so you¡¯re telling me I have two options:
?
?1).? park @ CWD, Turn off Gemini,?? then move the scope manually to the horizontal position so I can close the roof Then to Awaken I would Firstmanually move to CWD and then turn on Gemini , warm restart,? go to and sink on first target
2 ). hand control command move the scope the Home position (which is horizontal )turn her off close the roof.? Then to awaken first? manually position to CWD then power up Gemini Warm restart go to sync
All of this seems so tedious - the model is there !?
I suppose even after parking Yet leaving power on then unpark I still have to do a CWD warm restart and then go to align?
What about the sleep mode?
?I can¡¯t just turn her on and go directly to the target rather than beginning always at CWD?
Ron
?
?
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Re: Gear lash adjustments on my G11t
I have the same problem with my G11S.? You did not mention if your worm gears are spring loaded.? Mine are not, so anything I write applies just to regular worms.? The G11S comes without a goto system.? I added a goto kit to mine so I have stepper motoars completely different from your Gemini.
?
I have spent quite a bit of time adjusting the worm gears.? I too did not know that you are not supposed to touch it, I thought every mount needs adjustment especially the Losmandies that have the most open access of any.? Oh well.? I now have the gear covers permanently off, which saves me a lot of time.? I also superlube them before each session.
?
Once I got my goto kit I found that the motors bind up frequently.? This can be fixed by loosening the gears a bit at the expense of some play.? I was unable to fix both problems at the same time and reluctantly accepted the play.? While play in RA is not a big problem during tracking, I have a polar alignment routine based on an RA rotation so for that, play is not desirable.
?
To find out what was causing the problem I let the motors run 180 degrees until they bind and disconnect the motor power cable.? By rotating the gear with my thumb I can easily feel the additional resistance going into the rough spot.? That confirmed to me that the motors are not to blame; there is a substantial change in friction at those spots that makes it a lot harder to turn the gear.? The Gemini motors may be stronger than my steppers and power their way through it.? I talked with Scott on the phone and he mentioned that the crown wheel is never perfectly round.? I suspect this is the cause of it.
?
I was also advised by someone on this board that temperature can make a difference in how soon these problems arise.? I suspect this is true because one time I had to adjust the gears outside at night while everything was working fine earlier inside during the daytime.??
?
My workaround is to use shims between the worm block and the mount when adjusting the worm gear.? The shims make the adjustment in the radial direction much more stable than what is achievable with manual pressure.? I make them of foil from a sardine tin can cover that I can fold to vary the thickness.? If you have spring loaded worms then shimming is not a solution.
?
So, I now work with gears that have a bit of play.? It is enough play to be visible in the eyepiece and to throw my polar alignment off by a few arc minutes (I won't go into the details of my PA routine).? However it does not affect tracking very much.? I am happy with the images I got so far and worry a lot less about it as a result.? After all it is a very stable mount, which is what matters most.? The shimming definitely made things easier for me.? Hope this helps.
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Hi Arun,!
In the Gemini-1, a Cold Boot erases the entire set of Model parameters.? Gemini.net shows all zeroes on the Advanced panel.??
The Genini-1 assumed the mount is polar aligned.? Then you do a First Bright Star alignment.? The mount will rotate to that position.? You then rotate the position to get that star in the scope field.??
Then press Enter and it says Aligned!??
But if you look at the Model parameters in Gemini.net, they are still all zero if started from the cold boot.
I think they should be zero, too. If you had been earlier parked off from CWD, say the counterweight bar had been horizontal.? You'd have to rotate the RA by near 90 degrees.? The model should still be all zeros.? Only the Encoder positions should not be zero, they should tell Gemini the initial pointing synch position.
Brian has tested the Gemini-2 and says that the first Bright Star align results in nonzero model parameters.? The question is....why is there a difference in operation between these two generation systems?? I'm saying that if Brian did a Warm Boot, not a Cold Boot as I am, then I think the Gemini "knows" it's last model values and they are preserved (not necessarily zero).? Then Gemini would try to calculate new Model values as he observes.
The point of all this is to help our original questioner: why are his GoTos far off when he did a Park at Custom (that is, wherever he wanted the mount to be parked).? He chose horizontal maybe to fit his observatory space.? That is already an allowed supported Park position in Gemini.? It should be working perfectly when he boots up Warm Boot, and unparks.? If he has done a Cold Boot then his system will assume it is at CWD...where is is not!
All the best, Michael
Michael -
To the point about Cold Boot (which I assume means no pre existing model) - does it matter whether the CWD position is dead on or not? In theory, assuming that the mount is accurately polar aligned, it is irrelevant. All you need to do is point it to a known location in the sky (or know where the scope is currently pointing) and everything should be calculable, basically a single star alignment. Thinking about this non mathematically; if I had a map of the Earth and knew my current latitude and longitude, I can get to any other place. I don't need to travel to a second location to figure it out. It would be similar on the Celestial Sphere. All I need is to polar align and know where I am pointing now, and every other point should fall in place. I can say that my standard imaging practice is not even to bother leveling RA and DEC for CWD; I simply cold start, slew to my target, do a blind sync, and the next slew is within a couple hundred pixels of where I should be. In practice, mechanical slop and inaccuracy in how well the first point is centered would give you a better accuracy with multiple star alignments which I think is the purpose of building a model. And once a model is built, sync would allow you to correct for if you accidentally bumped the axes etc.
Arun
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Michael -
To the point about Cold Boot (which I assume means no pre existing model) - does it matter whether the CWD position is dead on or not? In theory, assuming that the mount is accurately polar aligned, it is irrelevant. All you need to do is point it to a known location in the sky (or know where the scope is currently pointing) and everything should be calculable, basically a single star alignment. Thinking about this non mathematically; if I had a map of the Earth and knew my current latitude and longitude, I can get to any other place. I don't need to travel to a second location to figure it out. It would be similar on the Celestial Sphere. All I need is to polar align and know where I am pointing now, and every other point should fall in place. I can say that my standard imaging practice is not even to bother leveling RA and DEC for CWD; I simply cold start, slew to my target, do a blind sync, and the next slew is within a couple hundred pixels of where I should be. In practice, mechanical slop and inaccuracy in how well the first point is centered would give you a better accuracy with multiple star alignments which I think is the purpose of building a model. And once a model is built, sync would allow you to correct for if you accidentally bumped the axes etc.
Arun
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Ok. Good to know.??
If you did a Cold Boot then ...it seems the -1 and -2 must be different in operation from a cold boot.??
That means the G-2 believes the CWD position was dead on, whereas the G-1 does not trust that.? The G-1 then uses the first bright star point as the first known accurate point.??
The plot thickens!
If you did a Warm Boot (the default on my G-1 is Warm Boot) then it would make sense that the first Bright Star align would be added to the per-existing model as a new point.??
Have fun!
Michael
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 1:26 PM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: >>>Look at the Model settings in Gemini.net, using the Advanced panel Model area. You will find they remain all zero value after the first Align to Bright star is done.
I just did this using the hand controller and Gemini II definitely updates HA and DEC Index errors to non-zero values on first alignment after cold start
So it sounds like Gemini I may work differently than Gemini II
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:53 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Hi Brian, Look at the Model settings in Gemini.net, using the Advanced panel Model area.?
You will find they remain all zero value after the first Align to Bright star is done.? Therefore it is a Synch.? Only after the 2nd align star is done do you see the Model parameters move off zero.??
Yes, that is what I observe from my Gemini-1 work.? I don't yet own a G-2.? The company software engineer would know if that code changed ... you would be in the best position to seek that.??
All the best, Michael
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 11:38 AM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: >> Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
Michael - is that how it works on Gemini I??
i just tested this on Gemini II and the first align gives me a DEC and RA offset, which is what I expected
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:25 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Hi Ron,
Like Jamey just said, when I have some pointing trouble, I do a Park at CWD, then shut off the Gemini power.
Then I set up the CWD position:?? I loosen the RA clutch.? I then use a "torpedo" bubble level, to?put the counterweight bar horizontal, getting that level, moving the RA setting circles to something convenient, then rotating?back 90 degrees to get the counterweight bar vertical again.? ?I then retighten the RA clutch knob.
Then I loosen the DEC clutch knob, and rotate the scope to be horizontal.? Then use the level to get the dovetail level, then use the setting circles again to move that back to CWD position pointing the scope toward Polaris.? Then retighten the DEC axis.
Then I power back on the Gemini using a Cold Boot.? That erases all possibly messed up Model values back to zero.? Then I double check the UTC time and location information.? At that point, my GoTos are normally quite accurate.? I then do a 1 star Alignment.
Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
You can then Add Align points if you wish. Give that a try.
I would not leave the Gemini powered on all the time, it is not necessary from the way it was designed, using the internal RTC device to keep the time counted, and using the SRAM to keep the location and other information in storage.??
Some other ideas to evaluate:? ?
I have not tried Park at Custom point, which I think is what you are doing to park with the counterweights horizontal.? In theory it should work.??
However, I would do the?Cold Boot with the Gemini not connected to the PC/laptop.? I would check to see if Gemini.net has "set Time/Date on Connect" checked off, and uncheck that.? I suggest you try and see if somehow those in Gemini.net are somehow? over-riding the internal Gemini settings, and messing up your Park/Unpark operation.? These are just some thoughts, but worth a few quick experiments to see if that PC to Gemini interaction might be causing trouble.??
Best of luck, Michael
I do a cold start with CWD every time and do a modeling. Pier mounted too...
Jamey
I have now have a ROR for my G 11 G on Its tripod And I am having problems with restarting Gemini 2 back on
My problem is when I restart I am not getting a good initial goto
so my question is - what is the best way to shut down and restart?
so far my technique has been move to the park position which is RA and dec horizontal and then I shut off electricity. But when I return I do a warm start never seems to be pointing at the correct target?
What is the correct workflow ?
Should I leave the mount turned on All of the time instead??
Any other suggestions?
what are you guys doing?
Ron
--
--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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>>>Look at the Model settings in Gemini.net, using the Advanced panel Model area. You will find they remain all zero value after the first Align to Bright star is done.
I just did this using the hand controller and Gemini II definitely updates HA and DEC Index errors to non-zero values on first alignment after cold start
So it sounds like Gemini I may work differently than Gemini II
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:53 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Hi Brian, Look at the Model settings in Gemini.net, using the Advanced panel Model area.?
You will find they remain all zero value after the first Align to Bright star is done.? Therefore it is a Synch.? Only after the 2nd align star is done do you see the Model parameters move off zero.??
Yes, that is what I observe from my Gemini-1 work.? I don't yet own a G-2.? The company software engineer would know if that code changed ... you would be in the best position to seek that.??
All the best, Michael
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 11:38 AM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: >> Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
Michael - is that how it works on Gemini I??
i just tested this on Gemini II and the first align gives me a DEC and RA offset, which is what I expected
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:25 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Hi Ron,
Like Jamey just said, when I have some pointing trouble, I do a Park at CWD, then shut off the Gemini power.
Then I set up the CWD position:?? I loosen the RA clutch.? I then use a "torpedo" bubble level, to?put the counterweight bar horizontal, getting that level, moving the RA setting circles to something convenient, then rotating?back 90 degrees to get the counterweight bar vertical again.? ?I then retighten the RA clutch knob.
Then I loosen the DEC clutch knob, and rotate the scope to be horizontal.? Then use the level to get the dovetail level, then use the setting circles again to move that back to CWD position pointing the scope toward Polaris.? Then retighten the DEC axis.
Then I power back on the Gemini using a Cold Boot.? That erases all possibly messed up Model values back to zero.? Then I double check the UTC time and location information.? At that point, my GoTos are normally quite accurate.? I then do a 1 star Alignment.
Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
You can then Add Align points if you wish. Give that a try.
I would not leave the Gemini powered on all the time, it is not necessary from the way it was designed, using the internal RTC device to keep the time counted, and using the SRAM to keep the location and other information in storage.??
Some other ideas to evaluate:? ?
I have not tried Park at Custom point, which I think is what you are doing to park with the counterweights horizontal.? In theory it should work.??
However, I would do the?Cold Boot with the Gemini not connected to the PC/laptop.? I would check to see if Gemini.net has "set Time/Date on Connect" checked off, and uncheck that.? I suggest you try and see if somehow those in Gemini.net are somehow? over-riding the internal Gemini settings, and messing up your Park/Unpark operation.? These are just some thoughts, but worth a few quick experiments to see if that PC to Gemini interaction might be causing trouble.??
Best of luck, Michael
I do a cold start with CWD every time and do a modeling. Pier mounted too...
Jamey
I have now have a ROR for my G 11 G on Its tripod And I am having problems with restarting Gemini 2 back on
My problem is when I restart I am not getting a good initial goto
so my question is - what is the best way to shut down and restart?
so far my technique has been move to the park position which is RA and dec horizontal and then I shut off electricity. But when I return I do a warm start never seems to be pointing at the correct target?
What is the correct workflow ?
Should I leave the mount turned on All of the time instead??
Any other suggestions?
what are you guys doing?
Ron
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--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Hi Brian, Look at the Model settings in Gemini.net, using the Advanced panel Model area.?
You will find they remain all zero value after the first Align to Bright star is done.? Therefore it is a Synch.? Only after the 2nd align star is done do you see the Model parameters move off zero.??
Yes, that is what I observe from my Gemini-1 work.? I don't yet own a G-2.? The company software engineer would know if that code changed ... you would be in the best position to seek that.??
All the best, Michael
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 11:38 AM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: >> Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
Michael - is that how it works on Gemini I??
i just tested this on Gemini II and the first align gives me a DEC and RA offset, which is what I expected
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:25 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Hi Ron,
Like Jamey just said, when I have some pointing trouble, I do a Park at CWD, then shut off the Gemini power.
Then I set up the CWD position:?? I loosen the RA clutch.? I then use a "torpedo" bubble level, to?put the counterweight bar horizontal, getting that level, moving the RA setting circles to something convenient, then rotating?back 90 degrees to get the counterweight bar vertical again.? ?I then retighten the RA clutch knob.
Then I loosen the DEC clutch knob, and rotate the scope to be horizontal.? Then use the level to get the dovetail level, then use the setting circles again to move that back to CWD position pointing the scope toward Polaris.? Then retighten the DEC axis.
Then I power back on the Gemini using a Cold Boot.? That erases all possibly messed up Model values back to zero.? Then I double check the UTC time and location information.? At that point, my GoTos are normally quite accurate.? I then do a 1 star Alignment.
Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
You can then Add Align points if you wish. Give that a try.
I would not leave the Gemini powered on all the time, it is not necessary from the way it was designed, using the internal RTC device to keep the time counted, and using the SRAM to keep the location and other information in storage.??
Some other ideas to evaluate:? ?
I have not tried Park at Custom point, which I think is what you are doing to park with the counterweights horizontal.? In theory it should work.??
However, I would do the?Cold Boot with the Gemini not connected to the PC/laptop.? I would check to see if Gemini.net has "set Time/Date on Connect" checked off, and uncheck that.? I suggest you try and see if somehow those in Gemini.net are somehow? over-riding the internal Gemini settings, and messing up your Park/Unpark operation.? These are just some thoughts, but worth a few quick experiments to see if that PC to Gemini interaction might be causing trouble.??
Best of luck, Michael
I do a cold start with CWD every time and do a modeling. Pier mounted too...
Jamey
I have now have a ROR for my G 11 G on Its tripod And I am having problems with restarting Gemini 2 back on
My problem is when I restart I am not getting a good initial goto
so my question is - what is the best way to shut down and restart?
so far my technique has been move to the park position which is RA and dec horizontal and then I shut off electricity. But when I return I do a warm start never seems to be pointing at the correct target?
What is the correct workflow ?
Should I leave the mount turned on All of the time instead??
Any other suggestions?
what are you guys doing?
Ron
--
--
Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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>> Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
Michael - is that how it works on Gemini I??
i just tested this on Gemini II and the first align gives me a DEC and RA offset, which is what I expected
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:25 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Hi Ron,
Like Jamey just said, when I have some pointing trouble, I do a Park at CWD, then shut off the Gemini power.
Then I set up the CWD position:?? I loosen the RA clutch.? I then use a "torpedo" bubble level, to?put the counterweight bar horizontal, getting that level, moving the RA setting circles to something convenient, then rotating?back 90 degrees to get the counterweight bar vertical again.? ?I then retighten the RA clutch knob.
Then I loosen the DEC clutch knob, and rotate the scope to be horizontal.? Then use the level to get the dovetail level, then use the setting circles again to move that back to CWD position pointing the scope toward Polaris.? Then retighten the DEC axis.
Then I power back on the Gemini using a Cold Boot.? That erases all possibly messed up Model values back to zero.? Then I double check the UTC time and location information.? At that point, my GoTos are normally quite accurate.? I then do a 1 star Alignment.
Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
You can then Add Align points if you wish. Give that a try.
I would not leave the Gemini powered on all the time, it is not necessary from the way it was designed, using the internal RTC device to keep the time counted, and using the SRAM to keep the location and other information in storage.??
Some other ideas to evaluate:? ?
I have not tried Park at Custom point, which I think is what you are doing to park with the counterweights horizontal.? In theory it should work.??
However, I would do the?Cold Boot with the Gemini not connected to the PC/laptop.? I would check to see if Gemini.net has "set Time/Date on Connect" checked off, and uncheck that.? I suggest you try and see if somehow those in Gemini.net are somehow? over-riding the internal Gemini settings, and messing up your Park/Unpark operation.? These are just some thoughts, but worth a few quick experiments to see if that PC to Gemini interaction might be causing trouble.??
Best of luck, Michael
I do a cold start with CWD every time and do a modeling. Pier mounted too...
Jamey
I have now have a ROR for my G 11 G on Its tripod And I am having problems with restarting Gemini 2 back on
My problem is when I restart I am not getting a good initial goto
so my question is - what is the best way to shut down and restart?
so far my technique has been move to the park position which is RA and dec horizontal and then I shut off electricity. But when I return I do a warm start never seems to be pointing at the correct target?
What is the correct workflow ?
Should I leave the mount turned on All of the time instead??
Any other suggestions?
what are you guys doing?
Ron
--
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Re: Gear lash adjustments on my G11t
Hi Jeff
The spring loaded worm is a different kind of animal. it's not going to behave in the same way as regular geared worm/worm wheel meshing. The spring needs a certain amount of flex to move, so if you are moving it, may will appear as though it has more backlash than "it should". PHD may also report excessive backlash in its measurements if you use the guiding assistant.?
In practice, when you guide, it will likely end up being a very reasonable amount and guide quite well. Spring-loaded worm looks a bit odd in regarding traditional gearing assessment
Regarding the 90 degrees vs 270, there is a certain amount of mechanical imperfection, so that could be it. But it's hard to know from just a description, you are there next to it. If you are adjusting the DEC worm, the spring-loaded part has a different adjustment than a regular one:
(i skipped to the part where it is just the adjustment: the prior parts are more for completely resetting the worm which you shouldn't need to do)
Brian,
I was wondering how much play the Dec was supposed to have. I have rotated the Dec though 360 degrees several times. It is tight and noisier through 90 degrees. 270 degrees of the
arc, the Dec is much quieter, and It start to get some play opposite the tight part of the arc. It seems that someone could adjust the worm gear all day and not get it uniform, if there are
tight and loose arcs. Just wondering what I should do about that, or if it matters that there is gear lash through some of the circle. I assumed that there wasn't supposed to be any loose
movement in the saddle.
Jeff
Brian,
Thanks?for getting?back to me about this. I am hoping we can start over.?
I did find a battery that puts out 16 volts. It powers the Dec through the range of motion without warning messages, but it still gets quite noisy. This was without a load.
I haven't tried the higher voltage battery with the RA yet.?
I suppose I did get the assumption that the mount needed adjustment, because the motors stalled out the?first
time I tried using the mount.?
I have never heard a mount actually, ?squeal, before, but I have repaired cars and rebuilt motorcyles, so I am familiar with mechanical sounds and squealing?usually
precedes something breaking or stopping. The mount seems to work otherwise. I would like to know if there is supposed to be some play in the Dec and RA with Losmandy mounts. My CGX-L mount has none, so I am puzzled about that. I am sure we can figure this
out. Have a good evening,?Brian.
Jeff
Hi Jeff
My apologies - that wasn't my intention at all, so please let me try again:?
Most importantly is getting your mount running to your satisfaction. I'm super glad people are helping you here.
IF you need to adjust it, I 100% can help.?
All i was?trying to suggest (maybe not so great) is don't *start* with the assumption you *need* to adjust your mount.?
I only said run it and see how it performs. And we can determine what needs to happen from there. I have helped many people to get their mounts up and running. Many times I'm helping them back out the changes they made because those changes degraded their
performance.?
You asked if we took the time to adjust these mounts prior to leaving the factory, and yes, I watch Scott do this all the time and with great attention to detail for each mount. I'm just relating the confidence I have in how the mount was adjusted and
left the shop. I assume you want to take advantage of that care.??
If you are concerned about the noise, a video with audio (or audio) could help answer that very quickly.
Michael's battery voltage converter is an excellent choice as well
Whatever else comes up, this is a great group of folks and I'm happy to help as well (here or via tech support)
Brian
Brian,
As I am sure you are aware, new things are often discovered as we use mechanical things. They all have their little idiosyncrasies. This was not an inexpensive item and I should?
be able to expect some help without negative feedback. If you don't have the time or the patience to help me, have someone else contact me. I have heard from many people
that the people at Losmandy were great to work with, and were always helpful. You have shown that there are always exceptions to the rule. If we are not expected to adjust our own mounts, why are there videos covering it in detail? Scott may have hand tuned
the mount, but shiping is not a gentle process. Fortunately, some of the people on the Losmandy forum have
been helping me with some information and suggestions. I would still welcome?your positive help. If you can't do that, maybe, I can find someone else at Losmandy to help me.?
Jeff
I have been spending some time looking for a 15+ volt battery. They all seem to be 12 volts. If you have any suggestions I would?appreciate
Hi Jeff
I'm surprised to see your post here, I thought we covered this in the ticket you lodged, and that you reported your mount was working fine??
I mentioned this previously, you need a higher voltage power source than 12v, especially?for the G11T. 15-18v is what works best. In the interim you can also try turning down the slew speed and see if that impacts the messages. if it does, it definitely
is a power source issue.?
Improper balance can also potentially cause that warning.??
Your mount arrived and was hand-tuned by Scott personally. We really recommend (and continue to recommend) that you do not make any adjustments unless instructed by Losmandy, especially for a brand new mount.
Brian
I have had my G11t mount for almost a week. When it arrived the RA and Dec motors would seize when I was trying to slew the mount. I watch Scott¡¯s videos and have done some
adjustments. The motors no longer seize but now I have play in both axis¡¯. I have gone back several times to get rid of the play but when I do the motors will start to get noisy
less than 90 degrees from home position and the heavy load warning appears. When I slew It back to center the motors get quieter again and all is good. I have gone back and
forth several times trying to get rid of play and stalling at the same time without much success. It seems like the worm gear is offset or not round on both Dec and RA. Anybody
have a few wonderful ideas to try? Is there supposed to be some play in Dec and RA?
Jeff?
--
Brian?
Brian Valente
portfolio
--
Brian?
Brian Valente
portfolio
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Hi Ron,
Like Jamey just said, when I have some pointing trouble, I do a Park at CWD, then shut off the Gemini power.
Then I set up the CWD position:?? I loosen the RA clutch.? I then use a "torpedo" bubble level, to?put the counterweight bar horizontal, getting that level, moving the RA setting circles to something convenient, then rotating?back 90 degrees to get the counterweight bar vertical again.? ?I then retighten the RA clutch knob.
Then I loosen the DEC clutch knob, and rotate the scope to be horizontal.? Then use the level to get the dovetail level, then use the setting circles again to move that back to CWD position pointing the scope toward Polaris.? Then retighten the DEC axis.
Then I power back on the Gemini using a Cold Boot.? That erases all possibly messed up Model values back to zero.? Then I double check the UTC time and location information.? At that point, my GoTos are normally quite accurate.? I then do a 1 star Alignment.
Note that first Align to Bright Star does not actually change any Model setting from zero value.? That first Alignment only sets the encoder positions to the Gemini...really it is doing a Synch.
You can then Add Align points if you wish. Give that a try.
I would not leave the Gemini powered on all the time, it is not necessary from the way it was designed, using the internal RTC device to keep the time counted, and using the SRAM to keep the location and other information in storage.??
Some other ideas to evaluate:? ?
I have not tried Park at Custom point, which I think is what you are doing to park with the counterweights horizontal.? In theory it should work.??
However, I would do the?Cold Boot with the Gemini not connected to the PC/laptop.? I would check to see if Gemini.net has "set Time/Date on Connect" checked off, and uncheck that.? I suggest you try and see if somehow those in Gemini.net are somehow? over-riding the internal Gemini settings, and messing up your Park/Unpark operation.? These are just some thoughts, but worth a few quick experiments to see if that PC to Gemini interaction might be causing trouble.??
Best of luck, Michael
I do a cold start with CWD every time and do a modeling. Pier mounted too...
Jamey
I have now have a ROR for my G 11 G on Its tripod And I am having problems with restarting Gemini 2 back on
My problem is when I restart I am not getting a good initial goto
so my question is - what is the best way to shut down and restart?
so far my technique has been move to the park position which is RA and dec horizontal and then I shut off electricity. But when I return I do a warm start never seems to be pointing at the correct target?
What is the correct workflow ?
Should I leave the mount turned on All of the time instead??
Any other suggestions?
what are you guys doing?
Ron
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simple servo motor control
Hi all. I have an RA/base assembly of the GM8 ( I bought from someone upgrading to the g11 RA assembly). I want to use for my solar scope. I only have the older servo motor and gearbox but no controller. Is there a simple way to run this servo from an arduino board? I don't need anything like goto or even accurate tracking. Just want to get the speed close enough to keep the sun in the eyepiece. Alternately, if anyone has a spare stepper motor to sell, that would make things easier as I have an OnStep controller already.?
I thought about using a nema stepper but having a hard time finding a flexible shaft coupler with a small enough OD. I don't really want to mill out the plate but I could. Just want to try something simple.?
Thanks, JoAnn.?
|
Re: Gear lash adjustments on my G11t
Thanks, Brian. It does help. My new mount has far less play than my old CGEM mount, but a tiny bit more than my CGX-L. I can send a little video of the Dec movement and sound.?
Between the moon and smoke from fires all over the west I won't be doing any auto guiding, for a while, so I guess there isn't a big rush.?Have a great day.
Jeff
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Jeff
if you can get an audio uploaded (or we can do a zoom or something else later today) we can figure out if the sound is a problem
Regarding play in the axis, your new G11T has a spring-loaded DEC axis, so there is going to be apparent play in there, which is really room for the spring to operate.?
There may be play in the RA, it shouldn't be much. I have noticed when folks move the bottom of the counterweight shaft?to check, it amplifies any movement so it seems like a lot. In practice, RA is always moving in one direction, never reverses so any
play there won't impact your mount performance.
hope that helps
Brian
Brian,
Thanks?for getting?back to me about this. I am hoping we can start over.?
I did find a battery that puts out 16 volts. It powers the Dec through the range of motion without warning messages, but it still gets quite noisy. This was without a load.
I haven't tried the higher voltage battery with the RA yet.?
I suppose I did get the assumption that the mount needed adjustment, because the motors stalled out the?first
time I tried using the mount.?
I have never heard a mount actually, ?squeal, before, but I have repaired cars and rebuilt motorcyles, so I am familiar with mechanical sounds and squealing?usually
precedes something breaking or stopping. The mount seems to work otherwise. I would like to know if there is supposed to be some play in the Dec and RA with Losmandy mounts. My CGX-L mount has none, so I am puzzled about that. I am sure we can figure this
out. Have a good evening,?Brian.
Jeff
Hi Jeff
My apologies - that wasn't my intention at all, so please let me try again:?
Most importantly is getting your mount running to your satisfaction. I'm super glad people are helping you here.
IF you need to adjust it, I 100% can help.?
All i was?trying to suggest (maybe not so great) is don't *start* with the assumption you *need* to adjust your mount.?
I only said run it and see how it performs. And we can determine what needs to happen from there. I have helped many people to get their mounts up and running. Many times I'm helping them back out the changes they made because those changes degraded their
performance.?
You asked if we took the time to adjust these mounts prior to leaving the factory, and yes, I watch Scott do this all the time and with great attention to detail for each mount. I'm just relating the confidence I have in how the mount was adjusted and
left the shop. I assume you want to take advantage of that care.??
If you are concerned about the noise, a video with audio (or audio) could help answer that very quickly.
Michael's battery voltage converter is an excellent choice as well
Whatever else comes up, this is a great group of folks and I'm happy to help as well (here or via tech support)
Brian
Brian,
As I am sure you are aware, new things are often discovered as we use mechanical things. They all have their little idiosyncrasies. This was not an inexpensive item and I should?
be able to expect some help without negative feedback. If you don't have the time or the patience to help me, have someone else contact me. I have heard from many people
that the people at Losmandy were great to work with, and were always helpful. You have shown that there are always exceptions to the rule. If we are not expected to adjust our own mounts, why are there videos covering it in detail? Scott may have hand tuned
the mount, but shiping is not a gentle process. Fortunately, some of the people on the Losmandy forum have
been helping me with some information and suggestions. I would still welcome?your positive help. If you can't do that, maybe, I can find someone else at Losmandy to help me.?
Jeff
I have been spending some time looking for a 15+ volt battery. They all seem to be 12 volts. If you have any suggestions I would?appreciate
Hi Jeff
I'm surprised to see your post here, I thought we covered this in the ticket you lodged, and that you reported your mount was working fine??
I mentioned this previously, you need a higher voltage power source than 12v, especially?for the G11T. 15-18v is what works best. In the interim you can also try turning down the slew speed and see if that impacts the messages. if it does, it definitely
is a power source issue.?
Improper balance can also potentially cause that warning.??
Your mount arrived and was hand-tuned by Scott personally. We really recommend (and continue to recommend) that you do not make any adjustments unless instructed by Losmandy, especially for a brand new mount.
Brian
I have had my G11t mount for almost a week. When it arrived the RA and Dec motors would seize when I was trying to slew the mount. I watch Scott¡¯s videos and have done some
adjustments. The motors no longer seize but now I have play in both axis¡¯. I have gone back several times to get rid of the play but when I do the motors will start to get noisy
less than 90 degrees from home position and the heavy load warning appears. When I slew It back to center the motors get quieter again and all is good. I have gone back and
forth several times trying to get rid of play and stalling at the same time without much success. It seems like the worm gear is offset or not round on both Dec and RA. Anybody
have a few wonderful ideas to try? Is there supposed to be some play in Dec and RA?
Jeff?
--
Brian?
Brian Valente
portfolio
--
Brian?
Brian Valente
portfolio
--
Brian?
Brian Valente
portfolio
|
Hi Ron
If you warm start from CWD, try a goto and sync on the first target. that should sync your existing model with real-world
Brian
I have now have a ROR for my G 11 G on Its tripod And I am having problems with restarting Gemini 2 back on
My problem is when I restart I am not getting a good initial goto
so my question is - what is the best way to shut down and restart?
so far my technique has been move to the park position which is RA and dec horizontal and then I shut off electricity. But when I return I do a warm start never seems to be pointing at the correct target?
What is the correct workflow ?
Should I leave the mount turned on All of the time instead??
Any other suggestions?
what are you guys doing?
Ron
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Ron
Michael Herman
jeff marston