Re: Clean and Lube G11 Gears
The bearings in the worm block are R4ZZ bearings. They will usually be sealed and filled for life with grease at the factory. I wouldn¡¯t bother trying to relube these, it is far easier to just replace them, if you need to. I¡¯ve recently replaced my old stock worm for a high precision worm, and it is very easy to remove the bearings using a heat gun (once you have the worm blocks off the mount). Companies like Boca Bearings in the US sell these for about $10 each (and those are ABEC 7 good quality bearings).
I also think you only need to grease the worm, provided you then rotate the worm (by hand) so it goes all the way around the gear wheel. I think if you put grease on the gear wheel too there will be far too much grease around, which could leak into the clutches. The oil film thickness between the gear contacts will be 5 microns or less, so if you coat the worm with 1 mm of grease all the way around this will be plenty.
When you reassemble make sure everything is aligned, and before you take the worm off use a feeler gauge to check the gap between the worm blocks and the cover, so you can get the same gap when you put it back together. The Oldham couplers ideally need to be quite tight. Michael Herman is the expert on here about all this.
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Re: Clean and Lube G11 Gears
Russ,
If you are having motor lag issues, perhaps you may want to obtain further feedback before a rebuild. Perhaps something is getting snagged, there is a power issue, a motor problem or another situation that could cause a warning. I have the Gemini 2 and I am not all sure of the what the Gem 1 warnings could be from.
But if you are intent on a rebuild, I can tell you this is a drawn out process with no quick wipe and re-grease. I just did a total disassembly and relubrication toward the end of 2020. There are numerous lubrication points within the mount besides just the worm and ring gear. There are bearings between the worm and blocks, the ring gear and internal spindle, and of course under the clutch locks. The ring gear cover does come off, as in included pics. I cleaned all the bearings and contact surfaces with a combination of gasoline, ethanol, and Brakleen, and then relubricated with teflon based Superlube. Replacing and retuning the worms was the most difficult part and they must be adjusted delicately. The worm and ring tension is critical. Too tight and you stall. Too loose and you have backlash. The Losmandy videos on YouTube show some of what is involved in the tweaking. But Losmandy doesn't recommend doing this at home for good reason. You need to be mechanically inclined and have lots of time and patience.?
If you really want to go that route, just warning you what may be ahead. Or if you are sure it's the worm and ring contact, perhaps a little dab of grease might get you going again.
Regards,?
John
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Re: Clean and Lube G11 Gears
AND..
I would suggest that removing the axis from the mount and making sure those cylindrical
bearings spin freely, and just adding a little grease to the worms ¨C drive the
mount round and round to spread onto the ring gears ¨C and adjusting the worms
would solve your ¡°new¡± issues.. Since it has been 13 years anyway..
?
That
would allow you to do a complete job when you wish, and not ¡°right now¡±.
?
As
always, just trying to help..
?
Derek
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Russell Milton
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021
6:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] Clean
and Lube G11 Gears
?
Hello to All,
After some 13 years it's time to clean and re-lube the gears on my 2008
Losmandy G11/G-1 mount. Last night while attempting alignment, I kept getting a
"motor lags" message. Then after several restarts I heard the RA
motor just quit turning and stall. So I want to clean and re-lube the worm gear
sets to remove any grit that could be causing the problem.?
Just looking at the situation it seems straight forward. But I wanted to check
in with experienced users to make sure I do the right thing. So first I removed
the RA worm cover.
This exposed the worm, but not much of the worm gear. It looks like the cover
over that gear needs to come off. Is that accomplished by removing the three
small screws in the next photo?
Two of the three small screws are visible. It appears removing these would free
the cover. But for the cover to come completely off, it looks like the entire
Dec housing needs to come off by removing 4 bolts shown in the next photo.
?Is this correct? If so are there any cautions that I need to be aware
of??
So with the Dec housing off and gear cover removed, I should be able to clean
the worm and worm gear. Now my thinking is that it would be useful if the RA
motor and gearbox were removed so I could turn the worm by hand to get access
to parts of the gears that are now meshing. The next photo shows some of the RA
motor & gearbox screws.
It looks like the two smaller screws attach the motor to its gearbox. The two
larger screws attach the gearbox to RA housing. Is that correct?
I would rather not remove the worm and its pillow blocks, since they seem to be
working fine as they are now aligned. But maybe that would be better to do a
more thorough cleaning of both worm and worm-gear. I do have some periodic
error, but not enough to be of any great consequence. Even when live-stacking
with SharpCap, PEC removes most of the periodic error.?
So with these thoughts in mind, I'm requesting some insight from experienced
G11 users on how to best move ahead with servicing the worm gear sets. When I
finish with the RA gears, I'll move on to the Dec gears.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Best Regards,
Russ
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Re: Clean and Lube G11 Gears
If
this was me, I would do none of that.. Take the scope off.. Remove the worm and
you can just rotate the axis to clean the ring gear a little at a time.. Relube,
reassemble, and adjust, which you will have to do anyway.. But that¡¯s
just me..
?
I
do know that most of those fasteners you mentioned do not have to come.. Pull
the shaft out of the mount and it¡¯ll be much clearer.. (if you wish to do
it that way..)
?
And
obviously wait for better responses from those who *know* how to do it the way
you wish to.. :-))
?
Derek
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Russell Milton
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021
6:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] Clean
and Lube G11 Gears
?
Hello to All,
After some 13 years it's time to clean and re-lube the gears on my 2008
Losmandy G11/G-1 mount. Last night while attempting alignment, I kept getting a
"motor lags" message. Then after several restarts I heard the RA
motor just quit turning and stall. So I want to clean and re-lube the worm gear
sets to remove any grit that could be causing the problem.?
Just looking at the situation it seems straight forward. But I wanted to check
in with experienced users to make sure I do the right thing. So first I removed
the RA worm cover.
This exposed the worm, but not much of the worm gear. It looks like the cover
over that gear needs to come off. Is that accomplished by removing the three
small screws in the next photo?
Two of the three small screws are visible. It appears removing these would free
the cover. But for the cover to come completely off, it looks like the entire
Dec housing needs to come off by removing 4 bolts shown in the next photo.
?Is this correct? If so are there any cautions that I need to be aware
of??
So with the Dec housing off and gear cover removed, I should be able to clean
the worm and worm gear. Now my thinking is that it would be useful if the RA
motor and gearbox were removed so I could turn the worm by hand to get access
to parts of the gears that are now meshing. The next photo shows some of the RA
motor & gearbox screws.
It looks like the two smaller screws attach the motor to its gearbox. The two
larger screws attach the gearbox to RA housing. Is that correct?
I would rather not remove the worm and its pillow blocks, since they seem to be
working fine as they are now aligned. But maybe that would be better to do a
more thorough cleaning of both worm and worm-gear. I do have some periodic
error, but not enough to be of any great consequence. Even when live-stacking
with SharpCap, PEC removes most of the periodic error.?
So with these thoughts in mind, I'm requesting some insight from experienced
G11 users on how to best move ahead with servicing the worm gear sets. When I
finish with the RA gears, I'll move on to the Dec gears.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Best Regards,
Russ
|
Hello to All,
After some 13 years it's time to clean and re-lube the gears on my 2008 Losmandy G11/G-1 mount. Last night while attempting alignment, I kept getting a "motor lags" message. Then after several restarts I heard the RA motor just quit turning and stall. So I want to clean and re-lube the worm gear sets to remove any grit that could be causing the problem.?
Just looking at the situation it seems straight forward. But I wanted to check in with experienced users to make sure I do the right thing. So first I removed the RA worm cover.
This exposed the worm, but not much of the worm gear. It looks like the cover over that gear needs to come off. Is that accomplished by removing the three small screws in the next photo?
Two of the three small screws are visible. It appears removing these would free the cover. But for the cover to come completely off, it looks like the entire Dec housing needs to come off by removing 4 bolts shown in the next photo.
?Is this correct? If so are there any cautions that I need to be aware of??
So with the Dec housing off and gear cover removed, I should be able to clean the worm and worm gear. Now my thinking is that it would be useful if the RA motor and gearbox were removed so I could turn the worm by hand to get access to parts of the gears that are now meshing. The next photo shows some of the RA motor & gearbox screws.
It looks like the two smaller screws attach the motor to its gearbox. The two larger screws attach the gearbox to RA housing. Is that correct?
I would rather not remove the worm and its pillow blocks, since they seem to be working fine as they are now aligned. But maybe that would be better to do a more thorough cleaning of both worm and worm-gear. I do have some periodic error, but not enough to be of any great consequence. Even when live-stacking with SharpCap, PEC removes most of the periodic error.?
So with these thoughts in mind, I'm requesting some insight from experienced G11 users on how to best move ahead with servicing the worm gear sets. When I finish with the RA gears, I'll move on to the Dec gears.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Best Regards,
Russ
|
Re: Slewing to target strangely
Well
well.. Yes, that is exactly what I am doing, though (for clarity) I am not the
original poster..
?
It
also mght validate my logic that ¨C with a warm restar ¨C it is ¡°unwrapping¡± from
your last target the night before and that¡¯s why it can end up in a ¡°weird¡±
position.. Once again, it seems, there is nothing wrong with Gemini..
?
NICE..
?
Warm
Start.. Got it.. (have never used it..)
?
Derek
?
?
Warm restart is for restarting the mount from a position other than
counterweight down. Such as a custom home position.?
is that what you are doing?
If you are restarting from parking at CWD position, use warm start
Brian
|
All of these topics are covered in detail on ?website. Here's a full, clickable menu, for example:
Enter "safety limits" or any other term at the top of the site into the search box to see what's available.
Regards,
? ? -Paul
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Re: Slewing to target strangely
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 06:40 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
Gemini-1 offers only warm start and cold start.
Michael, that's not correct. Gemini-1,? just like Gemini-2 offered Warm Start, Warm Restart, and Cold Start as options. The difference between Warm Start and Warm Restart does matter in that with Warm Restart you can continue from where you stopped the mount during previous session, without losing position or having to park at CWD. Warm Start requires you to move the mount to CWD before you start. If you don't, you'll have the physical mount coordinates all screwed up, potentially causing the safety limits to be in the wrong place, and that could result in equipment damage due to run-in with the mount. It is important to keep in mind the differences between the three different start modes, they are there for a reason. Regards, ? ? ?-Paul
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Re: Slewing to target strangely
Gemini-1 offers only warm start and cold start.? It really should not matter.? The first thing you are doing is just going to a "Bright Star" from the limited list.? There is absolutely no reason for the system to go farther in RA from CWD than it needs to.? There is some decision being made in the software that needs to be analyzed and corrected.
I understand if it cannot be changed in G-1 ...that product is obsolete.? But the G-2 is an active product and this behavior should be corrected.??
I'd say this behavior is a minor pain, and I use my G-1 units for imaging autoguiding and GoTo without much hassle.? I normally don't use the bright star list ... instead I use Stellarium to pick my align points and Synch, or Add Additional Align once I recenter.? For this purpose the Ascom Gemini.net applet is excellent.? ?I might align to a bright small planet like Mars or something.? Or a bright globular cluster.??
Always something to improve upon.? That's why I love engineering.? ?
Michael
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 3:07 PM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: Warm restart is for restarting the mount from a position other than counterweight down. Such as a custom home position.?
is that what you are doing?
If you are restarting from parking at CWD position, use warm start
Brian
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Re: Slewing to target strangely
Warm restart is for restarting the mount from a position other than counterweight down. Such as a custom home position.?
is that what you are doing?
If you are restarting from parking at CWD position, use warm start
Brian
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Re: Slewing to target strangely
warm restart.? will try prepositioning.
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There's some stuff in the getting started one that helps.? I dont know if it's a complete description?
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I've been there.? What I'm looking for is something that describes what's buried in the menu etc like limits and whatever else.
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Re: Slewing to target strangely
*Maybe*
the mount is remembering where it was when it was when a park was initiated the
night before so that when you do a warm restart it is ¡°unwrapping¡±
itself to complete your GOTO.. Just a thought for the people who might ¡°fix¡±
the software..
?
As
an aside, Nichael¡¯s pictures are how I would start off a nights imaging
of the planets as I followed them into the Western sky.. ?
?
Derek
?
?
Your second pic is like where I end up after wrong? slew. There is
something the software reads to decide which way to go. Gotta figure it
out.? Oh, mine is a gemini 2
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Re: Slewing to target strangely
Until your post, I had not mentioned it.? But I do confirm this is
occuring in my systems .? ?
?
***
As
per usual, Michael is correct.. Happens on mine too.. Gemini II with the most
up to date firmware I know of..
?
As
per the logic of ¡°Gemini choosing which way to go¡± I have always
assumed (that what Michael says below is true) and that Gemini decides based on
which direction allows for the longest tracking before it has to flip.. (Hope
that makes sense..)
?
My
MO has always been to know how to brute force things to do what I want them to
do.. As a career Carpenter I learned long long (LOOONG) ago to ¡°be
smerter than your tools.. That saw didn¡¯t make that cut in the wrong
place.. ¡°
?
Works
for me anyway and maybe it will help ¡°you¡±..
?
Derek
?
PS..
***Completely OT*** I need to fix someone¡¯s LX200 Classic.. Does anyone
know where I can find the MAPUG archive??
?
?
Hi George,
I have seen similar crazy wrong side of meridian initial pointing that
you describe.? There is something haywire in the Gemini logic pointing
code, and it can be maddening.? ? This needs software review of
whoever has the Gemini source code.
I suspect, but have not proven, it is because I have my meridian flip
limit far from CWD.? The initial "Align to Bright Star" pointing
code should still pick the most logical place (least RA rotation) to
start.? But it does not make the correct choice.? It picks the
farthest from CWD instead.??
It would only make sense to put the Scope West pointing West with the
RA rotated past 90 degrees from CWD if you were in the Southern hemisphere.
Then the sideral tracking would move the scope through the meridian smoothly to
the East. But as it behaves now, it starts in our Northern hemisphere usage
with the scope West pointing West.? That is the worst place to start in
the Northern hemisphere.? Sideral tracking will just track the scope a
short time later into the tripod legs.?
When I see this wrong pointing, or a possible crash,? I press Stop
(on a G-2) or press the East / West diamond buttons to interrupt the go-to.
Then I do a meridian flip, or maybe go-to CWD and Cold Boot again.? But I
think this is a flaw in the go-to pointing logic code.?
I took some pictures of the aberrant behavior.? Until your post, I
had not mentioned it.? But I do confirm this is occuring in my systems
.? ?
I thought it was only a problem limited to the Gemini-1 units (all
level 4 version 1.05) that I have on most of my systems.? Is your system
behavior in a G-1, or in a G-2?
?
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Show quoted text
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 8:44 AM George Anderson <gma2509@...> wrote:
Hello.? Using a G11G.? Three nights in a row I went from a
warm restart at CWD position and entered goto pollux in hand controller.?
?First night the mount turned the RA and dec axes CW and slewed to pollux.
This resulted in a nice viewing position for me. The next two nights did same
thing but this time mount turned both axes CCW. Scope RA turned about 279
degrees and Dec moved CCW to point to Pollux. This resulted in a horrible
viewing position with the eyepiece down towards the floor very difficult to access
even with a diagonal.?
I am puzzled as to why the mount went in two different paths to get to the same
place in the sky.? Any ideas?
|
Re: Slewing to target strangely
I
always slew the scope the way I *want* it to go ¨C i.e. so it will end up in the
¡°right¡± position -.. *Then* I initiate a goto..
?
¡°WARNING¡±..
Try at your own risk.. i.e it is best to manually slow all the way to the
target to make sure there isn¡¯t a reason the mount choose to go they way it
did.. Make sure the scope wont impact the mount..
?
YMMV..
?
Derek
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Anderson
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021
8:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io]
Slewing to target strangely
?
Hello.? Using a G11G.? Three nights in a row I went from a
warm restart at CWD position and entered goto pollux in hand controller.?
?First night the mount turned the RA and dec axes CW and slewed to pollux.
This resulted in a nice viewing position for me. The next two nights did same
thing but this time mount turned both axes CCW. Scope RA turned about 279
degrees and Dec moved CCW to point to Pollux. This resulted in a horrible
viewing position with the eyepiece down towards the floor very difficult to access
even with a diagonal.?
I am puzzled as to why the mount went in two different paths to get to the same
place in the sky.? Any ideas?
|
Re: Slewing to target strangely
Hi George
Are you doing a warm start or a warm restart?
After starting up, try using the hand controller buttons to just move the mount to point to the eastern sky (assuming that is where pollux is) and then doing a goto.?
Brian?
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 8:44 AM George Anderson < gma2509@...> wrote: Hello.? Using a G11G.? Three nights in a row I went from a warm restart at CWD position and entered goto pollux in hand controller.? ?First night the mount turned the RA and dec axes CW and slewed to pollux. This resulted in a nice viewing position for me. The next two nights did same thing but this time mount turned both axes CCW. Scope RA turned about 279 degrees and Dec moved CCW to point to Pollux. This resulted in a horrible viewing position with the eyepiece down towards the floor very difficult to access even with a diagonal.?
I am puzzled as to why the mount went in two different paths to get to the same place in the sky.? Any ideas?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Specific?links within that site:
the getting started tutorial
quickstart tutorial that walks you through Gemini 2 setup and use. you can click on the screens as though you were pressing with your fingers, very handy
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 12:54 PM Chip Louie < chiplouie@...> wrote: No, not really small but it has EVERYTHING Gemini 2 and 1 related on it. Go to: ?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
No, not really small but it has EVERYTHING Gemini 2 and 1 related on it. Go to: ?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
I would like to know if there is a small 'handbook' - internet pages fine - that describes all the settings and things I can do with my G2?
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Russell Milton
Paul Kanevsky
Michael Herman
Chip Louie