Re: My backlash is larger than yours!
>>>That is what the beta firmware is here to solve - when the mount looses all sense of directions! Have you tried it? It works very nicely on my mount, this far.
that is not accurate. the firmware update addresses certain situations where the movement in both ra and dec is very small and could result in a runaway condition.?
it is not a "loses all sense of direction" solution
If the mount is pointing 180 degrees the wrong direction that almost certainly a date/time and/or location issue
On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 11:51 AM Magnus Larsson < magnus@...> wrote:
Sonny,
That is what the beta firmware is here to solve - when the mount
looses all sense of directions! Have you tried it? It works very
nicely on my mount, this far.
Best,
Magnus
Den 2020-06-16 kl. 20:32, skrev Sonny
Edmonds:
Well, that sucks for you, I think.
My backlash is so minuscule, I often find myself dropping down to
guiding speed during my centering process. Because I sometimes
overshoot with the tiniest blips.
I've have had unexplainable times when my mount will decide to go
180¡ã to where I know the star is. Not often, but enough to make it
memorable. Pointing at the ground is not where it's at.
I can't blame the mount though. Often it is the program in my
computer, drivers, or I think a square electron passing through...
8^(
When it does go bonkers like that, it does tend to wrap my bundle.
;^) Argh!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
You are not quantifying things if all things are not identical.
And none of us have exactly the same things. So anybodies results are never the same as another.
On top of that, none has laboratory grade, certified and tested quantifiers. There will always be differences.
So Your results can never weigh against another's results.
They are your personal results, at your particular place and time, with your atmospheric differences.
Including how you stick out your tongue. (Left, Right, or Middle.)
That's why professional labs share samples with each other to test their results against each other.
And I sure don't see that in this group.
Including any considerations of repeat accuracy.
[edited by moderator]
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: My backlash is larger than yours!
Sonny,
That is what the beta firmware is here to solve - when the mount
looses all sense of directions! Have you tried it? It works very
nicely on my mount, this far.
Best,
Magnus
Den 2020-06-16 kl. 20:32, skrev Sonny
Edmonds:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Well, that sucks for you, I think.
My backlash is so minuscule, I often find myself dropping down to
guiding speed during my centering process. Because I sometimes
overshoot with the tiniest blips.
I've have had unexplainable times when my mount will decide to go
180¡ã to where I know the star is. Not often, but enough to make it
memorable. Pointing at the ground is not where it's at.
I can't blame the mount though. Often it is the program in my
computer, drivers, or I think a square electron passing through...
8^(
When it does go bonkers like that, it does tend to wrap my bundle.
;^) Argh!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: My backlash is larger than yours!
Well, that sucks for you, I think.
My backlash is so minuscule, I often find myself dropping down to guiding speed during my centering process. Because I sometimes overshoot with the tiniest blips.
I've have had unexplainable times when my mount will decide to go 180¡ã to where I know the star is. Not often, but enough to make it memorable. Pointing at the ground is not where it's at.
I can't blame the mount though. Often it is the program in my computer, drivers, or I think a square electron passing through... 8^(
When it does go bonkers like that, it does tend to wrap my bundle. ;^) Argh!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
Under sampling images are certainly a great way to be able to ignore objective PE error numbers. The lost detail is not and cannot observed due to having huge circles of confusion and soft images that if you stand far enough back from look okay.?
The current DSO best practices seem to be a sample rate that is 2.5 times better than atmospheric. This is coming down from the best planetary imagers in the world using lucky imaging techniques which oversample at even higher rates and may be trending up.?
This requires objective knowledge about a mount's error rate. I learned this back in my studio days shooting cut sheet 4x5 macros from a 25 pound tripod that had to be reshot. I used a 400 pound camera stand for second session and the job was accepted.?
Just saying.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
Different people have different approaches to this, which I respect. For me personally, quantifying things has been a big help. While there are many variables, several of them lend themselves to be quantified and doing this has helped me get more consistent results.
With respect to guiding - at the first cut, as long as guiding RMS is better than your image scale, you're better off worrying about other issues. Today, I image at 480mm with an ASI1600, which is 1.6"/pixel. If I get 1.1" RMS on a bad day, I still shouldn't be focusing on guiding - I won't really see the improvement in my images. But I am soon migrating to a 10" Newtonian which has a focal length of 1000 mm. That's an image scale of less than 0.8"/pixel, and I can pretty much guarantee that if I get 1.1" RMS guiding, I am going to, at best, lose resolution, and at worst, get egg shaped stars if guiding in one axis is worse than the other. That would make me sad, One approach for me is to buy a mount that costs 3x as much as my GM811G and be guaranteed of great results at that focal length, but the other is to see if I can improve the current equipment's results with some effort. Hence my interest in whether Richard's number is 0.3" RMS or 0.3 pixels. If I know that my mount is capable of consistently being guided to, say, 0.6-0.7" RMS, then that would justify me putting continued effort into improving guiding. Other imagers I work with do get these numbers from where I am, but they also use much more expensive mounts.
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
Yes, wanting to quantify things is a wacky idea.
Keith
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Eric,
Forgot to mention that the mount can also be made accessible over your local network if you set it up to use the same segment and mask. This way you can control the Gemini using a PC or the web interface of the Gemini 2. This can be handy if you want to say monitor the sequencer or do EAA indoors.? But if you want to stream video near realtime you may want the only fast micro router out there, the GL.iNET Slate which is a Gigabit speed router with AC750 speed Wi-Fi. But this is only faster if you have a fast home AC router of course.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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My backlash is larger than yours!
A lesson in cable management, finding sneaky cable just barely caught on the mount. Thought this might make you laugh!
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Eric,
I don't know which mount you have or how you have your Gemini 2 setup, home network, remote dark sky site etc. or what other resources you have with you or on your person while observing. But to answer your question basically what you are doing "wrong" is relying on the catalogs stored in the Gemini 2 hardware to have the object you want to slew to. A reasonable expectation I suppose these days but unrealistic given the age of the original Gemini design and the fact that someone had to decide which catalogs (SAO) and what limits (Mag 7) to apply when filtering the catalogs so they might fit in the tiny space available back when Gemini was designed. Remember, the core of the Gemini system is relatively mature being over 20 years old now. AFAIK the catalogs in the current Gemini 2 mini contain the same data as used in the Gemini 1 and they were not expanded when the Gemini 2 was released. That said there is a way to upload your own catalog files if you feel the need to have a copy stored in the Gemini 2 itself. But this is really not needed these days nor is it as fast or useful.??
??
Here is the heart of the problem you found, there are 258,949 items listed in the SAO catalog on the NASA website anyway. When I open the SAO file I copied from the Gemini 2 there are only 17, 636 objects in the file. This is the issue you are having and points out the limitations of using the standard Gemini 2 stored catalogs from 20 years ago. The fact of the mater is there was a limited amount of space for catalogs 20+ years ago and in 2020 why use these limited internal Gemini resources when you can use excellent, much better updated catalogs and basically unlimited external planetarium apps like SkySafari 6 PRO, Stellarium or Carte du Ciel - all excellent apps BTW - with very little effort or cost.?
The easy way to do this is to buy a cheap micro router like the TP-WR802N or the latest version "Mango" (GL-MT300N-V2), both under $30 all over the web. Plug the router into a power source and an Ethernet cable into the Gemini and router and configure according to the usual methods as seen on Gemini-2.com for the TP-WR802N or the latest video from Brian for the Mango. fire up the app on your phone and search for SAO 67315 and press GOTO.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
Ditto from me, Sonny! ...except the clouds ?
Jamey Jenkins
I'm settled in with my GM811G HD and enjoying my Summer skies.
I don't fuss about figures. Instead I judge by my results, and I'm doing great there.
There are far to many variables between us and our objects to debate the variances of graphs and charts.
I recently replaced PHD2, because mine became corrupted. It was Easy-Peasy, done at the mount over WiFi.
It practically set itself up.
Tonight I have up to 95% clouds predicted.
Just peachy!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
I'm settled in with my GM811G HD and enjoying my Summer skies.
I don't fuss about figures. Instead I judge by my results, and I'm doing great there.
There are far to many variables between us and our objects to debate the variances of graphs and charts.
I recently replaced PHD2, because mine became corrupted. It was Easy-Peasy, done at the mount over WiFi.
It practically set itself up.
Tonight I have up to 95% clouds predicted.
Just peachy!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
I think that is a point worth clarifying ie., 3 arc seconds or 3 pixels. The number PHD2 reports in parenthesis is the guiding in arc seconds and the more meaningful number. the 0.7-0.8 RMS number I mentioned is in arc seconds. Yes, 0.3" would be an amazing number!
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
Just to be clear, this is 0.3" and not 0.3 pixels?? If so, wow.? The best I've ever achieved is 0.6", though usually average 0.7-0.8" (of course my skies aren't your skies).
Keith
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
By focusing on balance, cable management, etc. I can get around 0.7-0.8RMS on good days - meaning no wind. I'd like to improve that even more if I can. I still need to post my baseline guide logs like Brian suggested.
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Re: Another night of Stellar Performance
Hello Rick,
That is good to hear.
In the beginning I had issues with my G11G Gemini2. They were all my own issues with communicating with the Gemini hand controler.
Between Michael Herman, Brian Velente, and Chip Louie, they got me going in right direction. I have been quiet on on this forum for some time now, that all is working right with my mount. Brian, is probably relieved that he has not heard from
me in over a month now LOL...?
HAPPY SKIES AND " KEEP LOOKING UP"?
Deric
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
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-------- Original message --------
From: "Richard Paul via groups.io" <rickpaul@...>
Date: 6/14/20 12:02 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] Another night of Stellar Performance
Since so many people often post with questions and problems, I just wanted to say I another night of stellar performance from my G11 last night! 4 hours of the Eastern Veil with incredibly good guidance performance (<0.30).
Love this mount!
--
Rick Paul
Tucson, AZ
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Another night of Stellar Performance
Since so many people often post with questions and problems, I just wanted to say I another night of stellar performance from my G11 last night! 4 hours of the Eastern Veil with incredibly good guidance performance (<0.30).
Love this mount!
--
Rick Paul
Tucson, AZ
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If you are using a laptop connected to your mount, you could use a Planetarium Program, , and set it up (Telescope Control) and it can take your mount to any place in your field of view.
I'm so use to using Stellarium, I typically just go-to my objects with it. Hunt them up, and slew to the coordinate.
But you can just use Stellarium to browse around and get locations.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Michael that's a great idea!
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 6:19 PM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Here is a possible workaround:
Stellarium has the SAO star number catalog built in.??
Connect your Gemini to the free PC running sky chart Stellarium, using Gemini.net.
Running the Stelkarium program on the PC, you press key F3 for Find, and enter like...? ?SAO 14860. It will center that star.??
Then press the spacebar key to center that in Stellarium.? Then press CTL-1 to go-to that location on the mount.??
See the attached PDF for how you can connect these programs to a Gemini.??
(I have only G1, as the document discusses, but G2 has serial and other methods available too.? I use Stellarium-scope, a separate program that connects Gemini.net to Stellarium, but Chip mentioned the latest Stellarium versions don't need that.)
Stellarium has many other catalogs you can add in, say for asteroids, etc.? And it has the ability to show the field of view of your camera, or eyepiece.??
Have fun, Michael
EriK,m
I think the issue is that the SAO catalog in the Gemini may be missing those entries.??
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Here is a possible workaround:
Stellarium has the SAO star number catalog built in.??
Connect your Gemini to the free PC running sky chart Stellarium, using Gemini.net.
Running the Stelkarium program on the PC, you press key F3 for Find, and enter like...? ?SAO 14860. It will center that star.??
Then press the spacebar key to center that in Stellarium.? Then press CTL-1 to go-to that location on the mount.??
See the attached PDF for how you can connect these programs to a Gemini.??
(I have only G1, as the document discusses, but G2 has serial and other methods available too.? I use Stellarium-scope, a separate program that connects Gemini.net to Stellarium, but Chip mentioned the latest Stellarium versions don't need that.)
Stellarium has many other catalogs you can add in, say for asteroids, etc.? And it has the ability to show the field of view of your camera, or eyepiece.??
Have fun, Michael
EriK,m
I think the issue is that the SAO catalog in the Gemini may be missing those entries.??
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Chip Louie
Richard Paul
Michael Herman