Re: Cold Start unresponsive
OK, I re-calibrated and backed off the screws a little. It's responsive now!
Thanks!
Now its starting to cloud up for the rest of the week!
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Re: Cold Start unresponsive
Dear Brendan,
You make a really interesting point about a too-tight surface to the HC, but I gotta say I'm a little nervous about even slightly unscrewing something (by a half-turn) on a brand new product. I could give it a try, if something like this has been part of your experience...!
-Erik
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Re: Cold Start unresponsive
Well, I'm still weird.
I fell asleep in my chair.
Out back, trying to figure out what was going wrong, and even the mosquitoes weren't keeping me awake.
Which was bad for them. My blood is toxic.
They get after sucking on me.
20 years! Hope you are on the mend, Brendan!
We may not be able to visit you due to this virus thing, but we can inflict pain by making you laugh online. ;^)
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Hi Jay,
I got curious and
It it anything like these??
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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>>>
I don't sync or align from SF, just do goto's. I do a goto then plate solve with ekos.?
sorry I didn't realize ekos was in the mix, but same thing: you are syncing from an external app, so it's possible to get a bad sync there.
>>>SF kept the goto button greyed out showing that it never reached it's target. I restarted SF and had a repeat of this behavior. At some point it went haywire.
? Didn't complete the slew? This is starting to sound more like an ekos issue. the gemini will never slew and then not report done. it may be inaccurate, but it will finish.?
I don't sync or align from SF, just do goto's. I do a goto then plate solve with ekos. One weird thing I noticed was that I did a goto and it did not go all the way to the target. SF kept the goto button greyed out showing that it never reached it's target. I restarted SF and had a repeat of this behavior. At some point it went haywire.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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NGC Max digital setting circles were installed on my G11 and I need a new cable. ?Its a Y-cable with RJ45 splitting into two RJ12s (or RJ11-not sure). ? Has anyone installed this on their G11? ?Jim's Mobile no longer exists as a separate company and I'm not sure if they're made. ?Does anyone know of a cable company that ?might make or carry this.
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Re: Progress deep sky imaging with a C14HD f/11 on a G11.
Nicely done. I actually had to get rings for my Edge11 because balancing DEC was impossible with FW, camera, Moonlite, auto focuser, and the reducer; not to mention dangerous. Your 14 incher looks like and snug.?
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I don't sync or align from SF, just do goto's. I do a goto then plate solve with ekos. One weird thing I noticed was that I did a goto and it did not go all the way to the target. SF kept the goto button greyed out showing that it never reached it's target. I restarted SF and had a repeat of this behavior. At some point it went haywire.
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Re: Progress deep sky imaging with a C14HD f/11 on a G11.
Michael, way to go, I am happy for you
HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP
Deric
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Herman <mherman346@...>
Date: 5/26/20 8:00 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] Progress deep sky imaging with a C14HD f/11 on a G11.
Someone just asked the group if it was possible to mount a Celestron C14-EdgeHD on a G11.?
?I had done just that, but I didn't answer that question because, though I got excellent PE of 0.78 arcsec RMS, I had not yet achieved excellent autoguiding... that is, until tonight using an OAG not a piggyback
system I tried to make work.??
Here is a photo of the rig...it still has the 80 mm f5 guide scope on top.? That's not needed, because my efforts at? piggyback guiding failed.? (I might remove that, but sliding it's weight on its topside
dovetail allows me to balance DEC nicely.)? As Brian suggested recently, the rings mounting of the piggyback guide scope might be the problem, but...I'll never know.? That piggyback guiding scheme works fine for my wider field refractors, but not the C14 SCT...it
is f11 with an FL of ~3950mm. Could also be some slight mirror flop...too many factors to chase.? The OAG guiding solves all those problems as tonight proved to me.??
The photo attached shows the C14HD on a standard (optimized) G11.? [Those are: McLennan RA gearbox, (old motors,) very long counterweight shaft, old style OPW, Belleville spring washers in both axes, precision
brass Losmandy worms, straight-out old type drive system, 17 V DC power to the Gemini-1. Heavy-duty Losmandy tripod].
Tonight I got perfectly tracked deep sky images (finally!) by going to an OAG.? ?My piggyback guide system just couldn't keep from some shift or flexure...I had to give that up.? I also needed to use an ASI178M
USB3 for the OAG (Lumicon giant prism easy guider) autoguider...far more sensitive, much wider chip area to see more possible guide stars, much faster USB3, and much lower noise than my old Orion Starshoot USB2 autoguider camera.? The 178 made the OAG work
for the very narrow field of view; the Orion Starshoot autoguider could not.??
Note the 35 inch long custom counterweight shaft too...made by my super machinist neighbor.? It is hollow stainless steel, and using only 3 weights (2x21 + 7 near the RA axis) I can balance about a 50 pound scope + refractor + heavy camera system.??
Losmandy doesn't make a single shaft that long (35 inch!), but now does make an extender counterweight rod that bolts on to the stock counterweight shaft.? ?My neighbor, who also owns a beautiful G11, gave up on the counterweight shaft because
he thought it wiggled his C9.25 scope...perhaps the heavier C14 and spaced out weights eliminated wiggling on my system...who knows (it's a good physics problem to calculate the best placement of weights on a shaft to minimize oscillation of scope across on
the dovetail.? Save that effort for a rainy day and probably a finite element program!).
So I'd say after tonight's success, that it is possible to image with a C14 on a G11, but every aspect of the mount has to be optimized.? Losmandy recommends the G11T (Titan RA axis) for this scope, and I agree that is best suited to that large
scope.? Anyways, with OAG autoguiding I finally got pinpoint stars all night (focus vs temperature change on the SCT is a different issue!)? Here are a few screen snapshots during imaging at 500 secs at f11 tonight, of M61 with the supernova still clearly
visible, and 300 second exposures of M13.? Yes...I did get a few 500 sec subs with either meteors, or more likely Elon Musk's SpaceX satellites, flying through the image. But not too many ... will we astronomy lovers get free internet as a recompense for our
imaging agony?? Is Elon a billionaire?? I'll take a free Tesla...?
Right now I'm enjoying a very rare night of near perfect seeing shooting Jupiter and Saturn with a C14HD f11 at prime focus.? I hope these Jupiter videos come out as nice as the image looks raw already.? I'm shooting the planets with an ASI178MC
tonight.? ?
I just moved to image Saturn next.? Always a sight.? I now see Mars in view, but still too low to capture for me.? No sleep tonight.? The sky is just starting to lighten.??
All the best, and stay healthy!!!
Michael
Hi Michael.
Thanks for the suggestions.? I'm located in southwestern Virginia.?
I made several adjustments to the transfer gears on the Dec axis, correcting an alignment problem on the G11T and an out-of-center problem on the upper gear (the one attached to the oldham coupler) on the GM811G.? These changes allowed the gears to mesh well
while removing any gaps that I could detected during a full 360 degree rotation of the gears.? Both now sound much better during skewing too. I slightly elongated the gearbox mounting holes to allow the gearbox to move sufficiently to close the gap.?
After making these adjustments, measuring using the dial gauge showed much less delay at the transfer gears (less than .5 second) on the G11T while measuring at the saddle showed about a 4 second delay.? This led me to the oldham coupler where I noticed
the insert was less snug than I would like and the coupler ends were about 1/32" out of line. I replaced the insert with a new one and checked the set screws. Both sets of set screws in the coupler ends were still tight. Correcting the coupler alignment required
slightly elongating the mounting holes in the transfer plate so it would move sufficiently in the direction needed.?
The next thing I checked was how tight the worm bearing block screws were, and they were slightly tight, not allowing the worm to move easily with slight pressure from the spring. I corrected this and thought about the second screw you mentioned.? I've
had the same thought, I'm not sure when using this screw makes sense. I made sure it wasn't in contact with the plate. I have checked the telescope for wiggle, and I'm not feeling any before the clutch slips.??
I might take another look at the GM811G Dec axis to see what can be improved, but I'm out of ideas on what to check on the G11T until I can try it during actual guiding.
Richard
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Re: Progress deep sky imaging with a C14HD f/11 on a G11.
Glad to see you got things working, Michael.
I hope you anchor it from the wind, or remove the beast when not in use.
You remind me of a guy I knew in Wyoming. He was talking about how he could haul 2 1/2 tons of hay on his 3/4 ton Ford Pickup Truck.
I pointed out to him that while he could, it probably was not the best idea for the equipment. Nor to overload his axles and bearings so much.
Are you familiar with the term, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" ? Replace "drink" with "Think."
Yep, he broke an axle from overloading his truck...
Far be it from me to offer you any advice.
But I think you are treading deep and dangerous waters.
I'm not thinking of Scott Losmandy's mount capabilities, I think he far underrates the true strength of his mounts.
But I do think you are outside the bounds of common sense.
Like J.G. Wentworth sez, "It's your mount. Use it anyway you want it."
Good luck.
Children, don't try this at home.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: G11 RA needle bearings
Hi Marc,
I am of the opinion that Synthetics these days are very mature and offer great advantages over the older petroleum based greases of the past.
One of the biggest being they retain their lubricity over much longer times, and they don't "dry up" like the older greases use to do.
From what I've read Super Lube Synthetic is the most popular for people to apply when re-greasing their mounts. And that seems to be across all makes and models of mounts.
I'm more of a hand packer when it comes to bearings. Aerosols do have their place, but I prefer to get dirty. ;^) I always packed tight, then removed any excesses. The idea was to remove any air, then remove any excess grease.
I've never re-lubed my mount bearings, other than to check they had viable grease to them. My first mount, a Celestron Advanced VX, was not long enough for the world to warrant it. And my GM811G is far too young to need it.
But I do have over 50 years with electric motor bearings and many other types of equipment bearings.
There is a fine balance to enough grease, but not so much as to have it migrating away due to heat and pressure. So percentages do not apply for me. Other than as I've stated, 100%, then remove the excesses. Air carries Oxygen, Oxygen promotes corrosion. So good full coverage initially displaces any bubbles.
That's pretty generic advice, but solid for bearing maintenance.
Some don'ts would be to not over lube bearings to a point you have grease in places it does not good. If it migrates to your clutch discs, for example, that's a bad thing.
Bare in mind this factoid: More tools, and more motors (electric) die from over lubing than any other cause. So don't obsess over excessive lubing.
Besides, our mounts move very, very slow and very little. Particularly the RA axis, it really does little more than 180 or maybe a bit over 200 degrees of rotation, tops. (Relative to an individuals equipment, and limit settings.)
And contrary to what the Lube companies and ad-writers would have you believe, the lube doesn't "wear out" as much as it ages and becomes contaminated with particulates.
So when our mounts are slewing about it is still far slower than the bearing manufacturers every imagined their bearings being used.
Those are my thoughts, Marc. Based on my lifetime of maintenance activities.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Dec backlash troubleshooting workflow?
Looking back over my posts in this thread, I probably should include a bit more information for full disclosure so no one draws inaccurate conclusions.? I ordered the parts for the tucked motor and SLW upgrades from Losmandy for the G11T and installed them myself.? So issues requiring tweaks and adjustments along the way are the result of my learning process and not the responsibility of Losmandy.? Also, the bad gearbox on the GM811G was due to a mistake I made during installation of the motor and not due to the gearbox failing as received from Losmandy, another case of learning as I go. I like working with these mounts and for me the learning experience is part of the fun of having and using them (as long as it doesn't cost too much money).
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Re: Progress deep sky imaging with a C14HD f/11 on a G11.
Hi M,
You need a temperature compensated autofocuser system.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Re: G11 RA needle bearings
You are already using the best lube on the market. The bearings are not under much load, it's not a wheel bearing so you don't need to pack them with grease, a light complete coating is more than you need. You will need to clean and relube due to contamination before the lube fails. The bearings are part of a precision mechanism operating under lightly loaded very low speed. In fact you actually need almost no lubricant given the application so a light coating all around is plenty.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Re: Dec backlash troubleshooting workflow?
Thanks Brian, I still have a lot to learn.
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Hi Jamie
>>>> After a couple targets went behind the trees, I ended up slewing a few times. on the last slew attempt The system went haywire. The first thing that I did was to shutdown and restart skysafari.?
are you doing sync/aligns from within SkySafari? it sounds like there was a bad align resulting in a bad model. Cold starting the mount will help something like that
I've got a bit more info. So I was doing my usual thing tonight. Unfortunately I did not start out with the verbose logging. After a couple targets went behind the trees, I ended up slewing a few times. on the last slew attempt The system went haywire. The first thing that I did was to shutdown and restart skysafari. This did not help. I did it a few times, and it never helped. Eventually I had to run out and rescue the scope from catastrophe. I had to hit the power on the mount to stop it. I also reset the whole software stack, this time restarting with verbose logging, and so far everything is working just fine. So I don't have a detailed log of where things went wrong, just a point of interest.... Only one battery came in the mail, so I'm still on the old batteries in the mount.?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Dec backlash troubleshooting workflow?
Hi Richard
>>>I plan to start working with PEC and see how it helps in both axis.?
FYI PEC only helps in RA. there is no regular movement in DEC so no periodic error to correct
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 8:02 AM rkelley1961 via <rkelley1961= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Michael, I will.?
I noticed your posting about your G11 handling something like a 130lb load well, that is impressive.
My measurements are very approximate but my latest efforts appear to have reduced the backlash to around the 2 second mark.? The proof will be when I can get it out under a clear sky again. To Brian's suggestion, I plan to start working with PEC and see how it helps in both axis.? Lots to learn and try, and I'm still working through the process.
Richard
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Dec backlash troubleshooting workflow?
Thanks Michael, I will.?
I noticed your posting about your G11 handling something like a 130lb load well, that is impressive.
My measurements are very approximate but my latest efforts appear to have reduced the backlash to around the 2 second mark.? The proof will be when I can get it out under a clear sky again. To Brian's suggestion, I plan to start working with PEC and see how it helps in both axis.? Lots to learn and try, and I'm still working through the process.
Richard
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Re: Dec backlash troubleshooting workflow?
Very good work.? You wrote a very nice report.??
I'm sure you are tuning up your systems very logically.? Keep documenting your discoveries as you will help other getting newer systems perfect their units.?
Is DEC still giving a severe backlash???
Hope you resolve your issues?soon and enjoy some great targets coming up!
____
I'm making progress too.... see my email on that effort...
All the best, and stay well,
Michael
Hi Michael.
Thanks for the suggestions.? I'm located in southwestern Virginia.?
I made several adjustments to the transfer gears on the Dec axis, correcting an alignment problem on the G11T and an out-of-center problem on the upper gear (the one attached to the oldham coupler) on the GM811G.? These changes allowed the gears to mesh well while removing any gaps that I could detected during a full 360 degree rotation of the gears.? Both now sound much better during skewing too. I slightly elongated the gearbox mounting holes to allow the gearbox to move sufficiently to close the gap.?
After making these adjustments, measuring using the dial gauge showed much less delay at the transfer gears (less than .5 second) on the G11T while measuring at the saddle showed about a 4 second delay.? This led me to the oldham coupler where I noticed the insert was less snug than I would like and the coupler ends were about 1/32" out of line. I replaced the insert with a new one and checked the set screws. Both sets of set screws in the coupler ends were still tight. Correcting the coupler alignment required slightly elongating the mounting holes in the transfer plate so it would move sufficiently in the direction needed.?
The next thing I checked was how tight the worm bearing block screws were, and they were slightly tight, not allowing the worm to move easily with slight pressure from the spring. I corrected this and thought about the second screw you mentioned.? I've had the same thought, I'm not sure when using this screw makes sense. I made sure it wasn't in contact with the plate. I have checked the telescope for wiggle, and I'm not feeling any before the clutch slips.??
I might take another look at the GM811G Dec axis to see what can be improved, but I'm out of ideas on what to check on the G11T until I can try it during actual guiding.
Richard
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Jamie Amendolagine
Chip Louie
Michael Herman