Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
Alex Thanks very much for this... there are 4 or 5 ready made and very similar ‘boxes’ out there. Would you please take a few minutes to describe at a high level the steps and tasks are there to do a ‘RAMPS’ and OnStep solution for the G11? I was just about to pull the trigger on this kit:
Thank you! ?Any and all comments welcomed and appre iated.
DD
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Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
Assumptions that he is using the best resolution step motors available (0.9°), that they are Chinese, not $50 Japanese units, middle of the pack motor drivers (LV8729 or TMC2209 drivers). The motors appear to be NEMA 17s with modest driving torque (40-60 ounce-inch). You can get them for $10 a unit in 5 motor lots. To get the advertised slew rates he must be using a 2 - 3 core processor running 72-100MHz processor. OnStep uses the LX200 instruction set. EQStar appears to be using a Synta command set, perhaps a variant of EQMOD.
You can drive the steppers up to 60K ?steps with the current mid-priced drivers (under $10), but it's in the nature of steppers that resolution isn't improved by rates higher that 32 ?steps/step. I like the $3.25 LV8729 drivers as I feel they give the best performance for the buck, don't require a special interface to permit runtime adjustment and run cool with out heat sinks in most applications. I run them at 64 ?steps/step, not for better resolution, but because they are quieter at that rate.
Shouldn't factors like weight and friction work to increase tracking inaccuracies? Care has to be taken when configuring ramp speeds on different mount. A large payload or excessive friction will cause missed steps if the acceleration and deceleration rates don't take these factors into account. Of course this just impacts the accuracy of gotos, not sidereal tracking. Payload balance and mount tuning are always necessary to get the most out of a mount. Remember these systems owe their existence to the 3-D printer industry. The payloads the five 3-D printer motors are a pretty small compared to what we are asking of them.
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Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
Are those numbers for the EQStar motors or just assumptions?? Note also that the weight and friction smooth everything out so it's not just about motor specs.
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It looks like it's moving a fair bit. You should be able to get zero backlash in DEC quite easily without seizing anywhere across the whole circumference of the spur gear. I usually clean the worm dry and grease the spur gear alone with a wooden lollipop stick. It has just the right shape to "paint" the grease in the groove. Then mesh the worm to the max so it cannot move at all. With the gearbox removed try to rotate the old ham coupler by hand and release the pressure by a minute amount until it moves, then keep going for a 360 turn forward repeating for each tight spot. When done do it in reverse. If you're lucky you could have zero backlash provided your spur gear is perfectly round which it should. RA you can have a bit of backlash because you load the worm East when tracking. DEC I recommend to get as close as you can to zero.
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The Mechanical side is pretty straight forward for me the computer stuff is were I have the issues. Your going to Laugh and role your eyes when I tell you a couple of weeks ago I found out what paste is on a computer . I just came out of the
Stone Age about 2 years ago and computer stuff does not make a whole lot of sense to me.
I hope to get another chance at clear skies in a few days, it wont happen tonight.?
Ed, gave me a thought on the RA worm. I dont think it will have any effect but sometimes things seem?
Unrelated do effect other things.? We'll try. The worst that can happen is sending the mount head and controler back to Losmandy.? ? ? ??
HAPPY SKIES to you AstroItalian. Deric
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
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-------- Original message --------
From: astroitalian@...
Date: 4/28/20 3:41 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Pointing Issues
Hope you get it working, Deric.? These are complex gizmos, and there's a lot that can go wrong.? In fact, sometimes it scares me when something in this hobby goes RIGHT, as it seems everything works against it, whether light pollution, satellites, wind
and weather, seeing, BUGS (the real kind, not computer ones), computer bugs (not the real kind), slipping clutches, optical aberrations, power outages, and on and on and on and on.? Sometimes you have a problem, and there are so many possibilities for what
could go wrong you have to just make a list and eliminate them one by one...? hopefully.
Best wishes,
John
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Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
Thanks George some decent insight there.? Well done.
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Brendan
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Before I start trying the Spring-Loaded Worm Gear Adjustment, I would like an opinion.? Is 1° of movement (play) acceptable?? I see in the video they are adjusting the RA axis.? My problem is in the DEC axis.? But after the adjustment, there was no play in the axis.? I would thing that I should have the same in the DEC axis.? I'm incline to perform the Spring-Loaded Worm Adjustment.? I will fix the play I am experiencing in my DEC Axis.? How many people have had to make these adjustments?? I attached a movie, I hope it comes thru.
Steve
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Hope you get it working, Deric.? These are complex gizmos, and there's a lot that can go wrong.? In fact, sometimes it scares me when something in this hobby goes RIGHT, as it seems everything works against it, whether light pollution, satellites, wind and weather, seeing, BUGS (the real kind, not computer ones), computer bugs (not the real kind), slipping clutches, optical aberrations, power outages, and on and on and on and on.? Sometimes you have a problem, and there are so many possibilities for what could go wrong you have to just make a list and eliminate them one by one...? hopefully.
Best wishes,
John
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Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
I will take a look at those. Thanks for the info.
Daniel V
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 2:05 PM George Cushing < pinyachta@...> wrote: Tucked printable motor mount for G11,??And GM-8?
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Clear skies?
Daniel V
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Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
Tucked printable motor mount for G11,??And GM-8?
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Thank you AstroItalian, I am going to give it one more try tonight. Tonight will be the last clear night for awhile. When my mount was working well I go to bright star Align then alignment and what ever I would Goto would be somewhere in the eyepiece,
and that is just fine by me.HAAPY SKIES Deric.
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
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From: astroitalian@...
Date: 4/28/20 11:53 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Pointing Issues
Good morning Deric, Brian et al,
I have good news to report.? Last night pointing was close to excellent.? I don't expect "perfect" from any commercial mount (or even a custom one!) but the accuracy was well within tolerance, falling for the most part within or on the little red square on
my camera viewer.? Tracking was also very good to excellent (that depending on where I was in the sky, not a reflection on the mount's capabilities).
Ok, so here's what my wife and I did yesterday.? First, I had done a factory reset recently, so I'm not sure what we HAD entered as parameters originally that might have changed, but one thing I do not believe we had entered was an accurate figure for our elevation,
so we did that.
We also entered SECONDS in the latitude and longitude boxes.
But the one thing that "might" also have had some effect was this:? On the online Gemini web interface page, where you can enter stuff like time, date, and location, the location default was for Hollywood.? I'm talking about where the dropdown is located, that
has Phoenix and other cities listed.? Now, we DID have correct latitude and longitude entered in the boxes below that, however whether the system DEFAULTS to Hollywood is what we did not know, but we did change that location to a custom one for Green Valley,
Arizona.? We're assuming that if that had any effect, it would have been that it was showing the elevation for Hollywood (??).
So, SOMETHING we did there must have worked, because pointing was a whole lot more accurate, enough that I'm perfectly happy with it now!? And also got a good night's sleep, because after a great evening of imaging, I wasn't lying in bed trying to work out
what might be going wrong with the mount!? Usually after a night out scopin' I'm pretty wound up as it is!
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Good morning Deric, Brian et al,
I have good news to report.? Last night pointing was close to excellent.? I don't expect "perfect" from any commercial mount (or even a custom one!) but the accuracy was well within tolerance, falling for the most part within or on the little red square on my camera viewer.? Tracking was also very good to excellent (that depending on where I was in the sky, not a reflection on the mount's capabilities).
Ok, so here's what my wife and I did yesterday.? First, I had done a factory reset recently, so I'm not sure what we HAD entered as parameters originally that might have changed, but one thing I do not believe we had entered was an accurate figure for our elevation, so we did that.
We also entered SECONDS in the latitude and longitude boxes.
But the one thing that "might" also have had some effect was this:? On the online Gemini web interface page, where you can enter stuff like time, date, and location, the location default was for Hollywood.? I'm talking about where the dropdown is located, that has Phoenix and other cities listed.? Now, we DID have correct latitude and longitude entered in the boxes below that, however whether the system DEFAULTS to Hollywood is what we did not know, but we did change that location to a custom one for Green Valley, Arizona.? We're assuming that if that had any effect, it would have been that it was showing the elevation for Hollywood (??).
So, SOMETHING we did there must have worked, because pointing was a whole lot more accurate, enough that I'm perfectly happy with it now!? And also got a good night's sleep, because after a great evening of imaging, I wasn't lying in bed trying to work out what might be going wrong with the mount!? Usually after a night out scopin' I'm pretty wound up as it is!
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Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
Hi Dan,
I don't know about 'OnStep', but Siderial Technoogy has all of the parts but the motor mounts.
My AZ8 has servo motors (tucked in), belt drives and a wireless hand pad. The mount is controlled by Cartes du Ciel which is a surprisingly good planetarium program (free) and 10" MS Surface pad. I sometimes use a 10" Galaxy pad and SkySafari with the
same rig. Full GoTo (quiet) programmable slew, pan and guide speeds.
No mods are needed to the AZ8. I used the factory motor mount holes and made motor mounts from 1/8" sheet aluminum. I think (hope) the most recent run of AZ8's have the drilled and tapped motor mount holes.
BG
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From: daniel vrolijk <danielvrolijk55@...>
Date: 4/28/20 12:10 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
ive always wanted?to fit On step on an AZ8 but? never saw a guide on how to do it. first step I need an AZ8 :P
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:42 AM Henk Aling < haling@...> wrote:
Not always a laptop, I plan on using my Pi and controlling it from my Galaxy Tab A.
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Clear skies?
Daniel V
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Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
ive always wanted?to fit On step on an AZ8 but? never saw a guide on how to do it. first step I need an AZ8 :P
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:42 AM Henk Aling < haling@...> wrote: Not always a laptop, I plan on using my Pi and controlling it from my Galaxy Tab A.
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Clear skies?
Daniel V
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Re: AstroGadget goto kit for G11/GM8
Not always a laptop, I plan on using my Pi and controlling it from my Galaxy Tab A.
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Re: REPLAY LINK: Zoom mtg using microRouter for Gemini connect
Thanks for the session, Brian. I learned some networking. I am ok with my current wifi setup, but found this to be interesting.? I use USB from a permanent pier in front of my house to my my laptop in an observatory trailer next to the pier.? Then TeamViewer wifi connect to my tablet, or phone or desktop in house 40 feet away.? Has been working good since I put a wifi antenna outside on the trailer. Laptop in trailer is powerful Dell and runs all my apps and collects images.? The router you showed would be interesting for Star party setup, but my 16 ft USB active cable has done well and more simple. Also don't want to change out my USB hub at the mount to an Ethernet....laptop in trailer would need adapter if I did that.? Already use one just for Gemini 2 to hub at the mount. Rest is all USB.??
I have to set up mount and tele each time onto pier, then take laptop in when finished each night. Sure wish I had place for an observatory shed, but not possible.??
Great seeing some of the folks faces on Zoom that I read about.?
Losmandy mount G811 working great, just working on better guiding in phd.
Clear skies, all!
Mearl In hazy VA
On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 4:30 PM Brian Valente < bvalente@...> wrote: HI everyone
At your request (and against my wishes!) here's a replay of this session.
??
thanks again to the 15 or so people who joined the live presentation
it's currently marked unlisted, so anyone with a link can view it, but we plan to do a more polished version of this video without?some of the hiccups i experienced.
nice to see and meet some of you! looking forward to more of these in the future
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Thank you Brian, on my way to work now.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
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-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Date: 4/28/20 1:11 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Pointing Issues
Hi Deric
>>And punching in wrong information into the Gemini 2 HC to get it to work does not work for me that tells me its broke. As far as rugged and a long service life mine is not starting out so good.?
I don't think that's quite accurate Deric. Just to be clear, i proposed something that could be done easily and quickly. that was not a proposal to fix it, only to see if we could isolate it down to an issue with time inaccuracy.?
you are in the "still determining what is the issue" mode,
I sent you a separate email with some additional perspective and approach
I understand you are frustrated and feel like it's not getting anywhere. A 'i'm just throwing rocks' approach is definitely not a good approach at this point and will frustrate you further. After looking at the email i sent, i encourage you to take a more
methodical approach.?
clearly it worked before, and now it's inaccurate. we just need to figure out what changed.?
John, I'm very frustrated, this is just remenesent of what happened with my last mount all be it,it was Chinese junk to begin with. It had constant issues. Its final issue actually made me laugh when after a few hours of working it went up in
smoke with me thinking " Die you B☆☆☆☆"?
I was sent a Email tonight that Losmandy is sending a list of things to try, I'll bet I've tried most of them.
And punching in wrong information into the Gemini 2 HC to get it to work does not work for me that tells me its broke. As far as rugged and a long service life mine is not starting out so good.?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
Date: 4/28/20 12:21 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Pointing Issues
Deric,
Sorry to hear about these troubles. I am sure Losmandy will try to accommodate your concerns. One advantage is that you can just return the Gemini without shipping the entire rig. Perhaps something was damaged in shipping. Last year I had to return a new telescope
three times as something happened each time I received it. The shipping companies and post office can be brutal with packages sometimes.?
I think you will find that the Losmandy mounts are really rugged and most users will attest to long service life of many years. The other brands are more premium and of course will cost you quite a bit more.
Perhaps someone else can think of some other things to try as a last resort.
Best of luck.
John
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Brian?
Brian Valente
portfolio
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Re: G11 dismantling and cleaning
Good day, I just did that this week-end with my G11. It is a 2000 model so yours might be a bit different. Strip everything then clean all the worms, gears, bearings with mineral turpentine and a brush in a large plastic tub to get rid of all the old grease. The bearings inside the RA and DEC housing you can just brush them until they get loose then keep rinsing them to get rid of all the gunk. Then let the whole thing dry. The day after grease all the bearings and the gears with a molypaste or equivalent (MP50 does the job). Be careful this grease is very messy. Whatever it touches is "wet". It will stick very well. That's the point anyway. Then you put everything back together and set the worm meshing then check the tension manually over the whole circumference back then forth. I usually do a service on the mount every 12 months. Once you've done it that many times it's just muscle memory.
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Hi Deric
>>And punching in wrong information into the Gemini 2 HC to get it to work does not work for me that tells me its broke. As far as rugged and a long service life mine is not starting out so good.? I don't think that's quite accurate Deric. Just to be clear, i proposed something that could be done easily and quickly. that was not a proposal to fix it, only to see if we could isolate it down to an issue with time inaccuracy.?
you are in the "still determining what is the issue" mode,
I sent you a separate email with some additional perspective and approach
I understand you are frustrated and feel like it's not getting anywhere. A 'i'm just throwing rocks' approach is definitely not a good approach at this point and will frustrate you further. After looking at the email i sent, i encourage you to take a more methodical approach.?
clearly it worked before, and now it's inaccurate. we just need to figure out what changed.?
John, I'm very frustrated, this is just remenesent of what happened with my last mount all be it,it was Chinese junk to begin with. It had constant issues. Its final issue actually made me laugh when after a few hours of working it went up in
smoke with me thinking " Die you B☆☆☆☆"?
I was sent a Email tonight that Losmandy is sending a list of things to try, I'll bet I've tried most of them.
And punching in wrong information into the Gemini 2 HC to get it to work does not work for me that tells me its broke. As far as rugged and a long service life mine is not starting out so good.?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
Date: 4/28/20 12:21 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Pointing Issues
Deric,
Sorry to hear about these troubles. I am sure Losmandy will try to accommodate your concerns. One advantage is that you can just return the Gemini without shipping the entire rig. Perhaps something was damaged in shipping. Last year I had to return a new telescope
three times as something happened each time I received it. The shipping companies and post office can be brutal with packages sometimes.?
I think you will find that the Losmandy mounts are really rugged and most users will attest to long service life of many years. The other brands are more premium and of course will cost you quite a bit more.
Perhaps someone else can think of some other things to try as a last resort.
Best of luck.
John
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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John, I'm very frustrated, this is just remenesent of what happened with my last mount all be it,it was Chinese junk to begin with. It had constant issues. Its final issue actually made me laugh when after a few hours of working it went up in
smoke with me thinking " Die you B☆☆☆☆"?
I was sent a Email tonight that Losmandy is sending a list of things to try, I'll bet I've tried most of them.
And punching in wrong information into the Gemini 2 HC to get it to work does not work for me that tells me its broke. As far as rugged and a long service life mine is not starting out so good.?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
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-------- Original message --------
From: John Kmetz <jjkmetz54@...>
Date: 4/28/20 12:21 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Pointing Issues
Deric,
Sorry to hear about these troubles. I am sure Losmandy will try to accommodate your concerns. One advantage is that you can just return the Gemini without shipping the entire rig. Perhaps something was damaged in shipping. Last year I had to return a new telescope
three times as something happened each time I received it. The shipping companies and post office can be brutal with packages sometimes.?
I think you will find that the Losmandy mounts are really rugged and most users will attest to long service life of many years. The other brands are more premium and of course will cost you quite a bit more.
Perhaps someone else can think of some other things to try as a last resort.
Best of luck.
John
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Steve Elmore
Mearl Balmer