Re: Imaging Startup Procedure
>>>
I set this up as a standalone network so Windows would quit slamming me with updates at the worst times.
this is a good thing to point out - the default times for windows to update is at night - the exact opposite of what we want!
first thing I do when bringing up a new computer is to change the active hours to 5PM-6AM.
it's under Settings->Updates->active hours
that way it won't install an update and restart right in the middle of my imaging session. which it has done on multiple occasions?until i figured this out lol
My Gemini IP and both computers are statically assigned so I just have a switch, no dhcp, and no router. I set this up as a standalone network so Windows would quit slamming me with updates at the worst times. Funny thing is I first had it set up so the house computer was connected to the internet and the standalone network and the new way Microsoft started distributing updates it still got my observatory pc, so they are both isolated now. It was the first time I tried using SGP without anything else to get on target, I probably didn't do something correctly. Brian, I would almost guarantee it was different wording, I'll see if I can get the logs, if not I'll try it again next time I open up, which may not be until Thursday from the looks of it, not sure why, I swear I haven't bought anything new!?
Sonny, do you run a Myfocuser? I just built a myfocuserpro2, using it on my Moonlight, with a Nema 17 pg27, pretty sweet setup.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Imaging Startup Procedure
My Gemini IP and both computers are statically assigned so I just have a switch, no dhcp, and no router. I set this up as a standalone network so Windows would quit slamming me with updates at the worst times. Funny thing is I first had it set up so the house computer was connected to the internet and the standalone network and the new way Microsoft started distributing updates it still got my observatory pc, so they are both isolated now. It was the first time I tried using SGP without anything else to get on target, I probably didn't do something correctly. Brian, I would almost guarantee it was different wording, I'll see if I can get the logs, if not I'll try it again next time I open up, which may not be until Thursday from the looks of it, not sure why, I swear I haven't bought anything new!?
Sonny, do you run a Myfocuser? I just built a myfocuserpro2, using it on my Moonlight, with a Nema 17 pg27, pretty sweet setup.
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Re: Imaging Startup Procedure
Sorry Les, about all I can help with is "How do others start up?"
I have 6 individual programs I kick off.
Edited this afternoon:
1. PHD2 (Then shut off the Gemini driver.)
2. Gemini Telescope (The new virtual hand control) And connect it, and it and PHD2 connect via ASCOM
3. Infinity Camera
4. AAF2 focuser (ASCOM)
5. Stellarium
6. The latest is All Sky Plate Solver. New today, play tonight.
After I have everything set up and running, I use a program called Tight Vnc and WiFi connect my inside with the outside computers.
I've been playing with my set-up inside to train my brain with the new mount, and the new procedures. Things are getting better and better.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Imaging Startup Procedure
Hi Les
is your 4 port switch a router? and is it powered on already, or does it power on when you "flip the switch"?
Regarding startup, i don't need to solve first, i can pretty much straight power up.
here's the important stuff:
- if you are connecting gemini via ethernet and a router (i.e., DHCP addressing), the router needs to be powered on before gemini. otherwise the risk is gemini will not pick up the correct ethernet address and use the default (which will not work in a DHCP environment)
- do not plate solve at or near the poles or CWD. it will mess things up, especially the initial?solve
- i can cold start from CWD, and just run SGP and the first solve may take longer (probably failover to blind solve) but it works 99.9% of the time.?
i've never seen that error message you mentioned, is it possible it was different wording? if you can upload the SGP log i can take a look
So I have a G11 with Gemini2 connected via ethernet to a 4 port switch. My pc is connected via usb to a ZWO guide camera, imaging camera, and also connected to the switch via ethernet. I have an ethernet cable running from my house to the observatory. Normally my startup goes as follows.
1. Flip power switch, and everything is turned on.
2. Go in the house and rdp into the pc in the observatory.
3. Open CdC, SGP, and connect all devices to both.
4. Slew somewhere I know there is enough stars in CdC.
5. Solve and sync in SGP.
6. Use framing and mosaic wizard in SGP to build a sequence, focus, and start taking pics
?
The other night I thought, I wonder if you can just open SGP, connect devices, frame and mosaic, and start the sequence without having to use a planetarium software. When I tried it SGP thew up an error about needing at least one solve and sync before starting the sequence.
?
My question is, how do others startup? Do you have to use a planetarium to get started or is there a way to just get going from SGP, maybe by solving an syncing from CWD and then starting the sequence or is there some other way?
?
Thanks
Les
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: One week, one huge success...
I will definitely consider it David.
Right now I'm only in over my ankles. But when I get into deeper waters I will give it a go.
I'm a bit shy of "All in One" programs, but that can change. ;^)
Baby steps.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Imaging Startup Procedure
So I have a G11 with Gemini2 connected via ethernet to a 4 port switch. My pc is connected via usb to a ZWO guide camera, imaging camera, and also connected to the switch via ethernet. I have an ethernet cable running from my house to the observatory. Normally my startup goes as follows.
1. Flip power switch, and everything is turned on.
2. Go in the house and rdp into the pc in the observatory.
3. Open CdC, SGP, and connect all devices to both.
4. Slew somewhere I know there is enough stars in CdC.
5. Solve and sync in SGP.
6. Use framing and mosaic wizard in SGP to build a sequence, focus, and start taking pics
?
The other night I thought, I wonder if you can just open SGP, connect devices, frame and mosaic, and start the sequence without having to use a planetarium software. When I tried it SGP thew up an error about needing at least one solve and sync before starting the sequence.
?
My question is, how do others startup? Do you have to use a planetarium to get started or is there a way to just get going from SGP, maybe by solving an syncing from CWD and then starting the sequence or is there some other way?
?
Thanks
Les
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Re: One week, one huge success...
You may wish to look at APT ¨C it manages your imaging and combines it with plate solving. ? David ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: 15 February 2020 20:22
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] One week, one huge success... ? It's only been one week now (Friday) since I brought home my GM811G HD. But wow, what a week!
Even given a couple of nights of cloudy skies, howling winds, and some fits with my other equipment (mostly my fault, too), I've learned a lot, accomplish much, and I'm very happy with my new mount.
I tried a few different ways to Align my mount. So far, following Scott Losmandy's method has yielded my best results and most accurate results.
Now, I am ready to take on Plate Solving! And I found a gem, I think.
I found a reference to it at Cloudy Nights by an Astro Tortilla user touting how easy ASPS is to use. So I jumped on it.
After the download and set up for my Atik Infinity camera (which I got the particulars by looking up the sensor, Sony ICX825) and got the spec's to set it for my AP camera.
Then updated it, and downloaded the Indexes (and it downloaded the 39 specific to my camera for me), then I fed it one of my images from last night and it hit a bullseye for me.
So as Brian and many of you have been encouraging to do, Week 2 looks like learning Plate Solving.
I'll probably need more coaching. But I can't hardly believe what week one has done!
Thanks!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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One week, one huge success...
It's only been one week now (Friday) since I brought home my GM811G HD. But wow, what a week!
Even given a couple of nights of cloudy skies, howling winds, and some fits with my other equipment (mostly my fault, too), I've learned a lot, accomplish much, and I'm very happy with my new mount.
I tried a few different ways to Align my mount. So far, following Scott Losmandy's method has yielded my best results and most accurate results.
Now, I am ready to take on Plate Solving! And I found a gem, I think.
I found a reference to it at Cloudy Nights by an Astro Tortilla user touting how easy ASPS is to use. So I jumped on it.
After the download and set up for my Atik Infinity camera (which I got the particulars by looking up the sensor, Sony ICX825) and got the spec's to set it for my AP camera.
Then updated it, and downloaded the Indexes (and it downloaded the 39 specific to my camera for me), then I fed it one of my images from last night and it hit a bullseye for me.
So as Brian and many of you have been encouraging to do, Week 2 looks like learning Plate Solving.
I'll probably need more coaching. But I can't hardly believe what week one has done!
Thanks!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Brian, thanks for the ASTAP suggestion. Seems quite a bit faster than Plate Solve2 on a couple of test images I ran. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it live tonight.?
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Ha, Ha, Les. No, not taken as derogatory at all. ;^)
I still have my hand controller plugged in. But might one day may pack it in and put it away.
I still use it occasionally, but this is only day 7 for me. 8^0 I'm really pleased with how fast I'm getting a handle on this. But Brian has propelled me light years with his help.
I'm all set up and the sky apps are all wrong. It's a beautiful looking sky tonight.
And even if it gets all wonky like last night did, I still learn something. Not disappointed at all.
-1¡ã F, ah such memories! When I lived in Wyoming, U.S.A., 0¡ã was T-shirt weather. My blood got so thick, one time I cut my finger and didn't bleed. It just oozed.
No, my friend, I haven't been cold since I moved back from Wyoming.
But here in California, anything below 60¡ã is "Freezing".
I spent the day making "models" and live running the mount against Stellarium. Suddenly, something clicked and the Gemini hand controller was working with my Stellarium and PHD2 opened. So I was investigating my good luck about the time Brian gave me a call. We chatted a bit while he was commuting and I might have it through my thick head.
If I open Stellarium first, it connects to the Gemini. Then open the Gemini controller, things work.
But if I open the Gemini first , then it won't work. Crazy. Brian tried to explain that, but until I actually do something, it's the way I learn.
Anyway, time to uncap the the scopes and see if Polaris is about. Some day I dream of being able to plate solve....
Stay warm, Les!
Sonny
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Sonny,
Didn't mean it as derogatory, that's actually what I do. I don't even have my hand controller plugged into the mount. I'm hoping by keeping it inside nice and cozy I can preserve it. Of course it was 16 degrees Fahrenheit? -1F with windchill when I opened the dome last night, it was all I could do to flip the switch and run back inside haha.?
Les
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Hi Les,
Actually, no, I don't want to "turn it on and go back inside." LOL!
I like to stay with the mount until everything is running to my satisfaction, and no bugs have cropped up.
I tend to enjoy watching and listening to my mount as it follows along with the targets I give it.
When it is fully "Aligned" (sorry, dirty word I learned from my AVX), and on an object being photographed, then?I like to go inside, connect with Tight Vnc, and watch and control the mount from inside. (Warm and cozy)
All interested: (here I go a rambling)
This is probably sacrilege to many, But if I'm on something I want to build on like I was with "The Flaming Star Nebula", I don't just sit while it mundanely builds the image, I've found myself watching TV shows with the wife while the equipment works automatically. My Infinity camera faithfully runs along doing 2 minute (120s) images (or whatever time I choose) and stacks them. ;^)
But when I begin on an object, or slew to a new one using Stellarium, I will center up (with crosshairs), then start PHD2 (normally), and when I'm reasonably certain I have my image rolling in, sit back, do other things, fix a drink, get a beer, watch TV, or pester folks on the Internet.
But like last night, I was trying out something very new to me that Brian helped me set up called ASCOM and got rid of a wire, too. So everything talks through the one USB cable, and PHD2 and Stellarium are working together. Stellarium and the new Gemini hand controller were fighting each other. Brian got me around all that with a short chat on the telephone, and fixing some settings I did not understand. (Thank You, Brian!)
I've been trying to use Scott Losmandy's Model building, and it finally worked around 9 or 10 last night. But I have more to do in ASCOM because I think things are not quite ironed out yet.
But Windows unleashed yet another Update yesterday (read about it ). I think it has been causing me, at least, a lot of heartaches.
At one point my Atik Infinity camera went absolutely Bonkers, and my mount ran into its West RA limit and stopped. Fortunately, I had my limits set to prevent contact. Or it could have been disastrous.
But I think maybe ASCOM and my 64 bit computers might be at odds. But not sure. Lots of strange things going on.Does ASCOM care if the computer is 64 bit?
And the only way to center up my objects was with the HC at the mount.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
>>>
?Within SGP, I just do a blind sync. ANSVR (local Astrometry.net) plate solves and the SGP syncs the scope; I don't even have to look up at the sky! Then start the imaging session and? SGP automatically uses PlateSolve2?
Arun you might give ASTAP plate solve a try? (it's free with latest SGP)
i've used pinpoint, platesolve2, and astap, ASTAP is not only much faster, but often it solves first goto after cold start - very surprising!
Would really second what Brian said. For imaging, especially across multiple nights, plate solving works very, very well. Accurate to well under 50 pixels at my 1.61"/pixel plate scale, probably more, but I don't need more accuracy than that. As Brian said, PA is critical (I use Polemaster, but based on comments here would like to try Sharp Cap). My standard imaging protocol is to polar align, command a slew to whatever it is I am imaging. Gemini will be off. No problem. Within SGP, I just do a blind sync. ANSVR (local Astrometry.net) plate solves and the SGP syncs the scope; I don't even have to look up at the sky! Then start the imaging session and? SGP automatically uses PlateSolve2 to center the object and we're off; my scope has a rotator, and it will even tell me how many degrees I need to rotate my scope to match my desired framing, then checks the orientation.. SGP costs $99 for three licenses. ANSVR is free and so are the UCAC3 and APM catalogs needed for PlateSolve2.?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Would really second what Brian said. For imaging, especially across multiple nights, plate solving works very, very well. Accurate to well under 50 pixels at my 1.61"/pixel plate scale, probably more, but I don't need more accuracy than that. As Brian said, PA is critical (I use Polemaster, but based on comments here would like to try Sharp Cap). My standard imaging protocol is to polar align, command a slew to whatever it is I am imaging. Gemini will be off. No problem. Within SGP, I just do a blind sync. ANSVR (local Astrometry.net) plate solves and the SGP syncs the scope; I don't even have to look up at the sky! Then start the imaging session and? SGP automatically uses PlateSolve2 to center the object and we're off; my scope has a rotator, and it will even tell me how many degrees I need to rotate my scope to match my desired framing, then checks the orientation.. SGP costs $99 for three licenses. ANSVR is free and so are the UCAC3 and APM catalogs needed for PlateSolve2.?
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Hi to all,
I have managed to source the same material Michael Herman uses to make the
"less slippy" clutch discs.
So if you live in the UK or Europe, it may make sense for you to get them
from me.
Cost is GBP35 plus postage (which is pretty close to USD45).
Clear skies
David
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Re: Computer for remote operation
This will do the trick.?  ?   ??  -- Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Hi Brian,
Oh, my bad. I guess we're blending our discussions.?
Regarding G11 guided PE performance, in the real world?I think once you are averaging below 0.5" RMS paint color matters and the phases of the moon, probably seeing limited but it seems to work the same in my SGV driveway too. It is not too hard to get down below 0.5" but to consistently be below 0.4" every night all night is, well I've never done it. The G11 will dip into the 0.3" range but it bounces back into the 0.4" range which seems to be good enough. If it was more important to me I would make more of an effort than selling a perfectly good QHY5L-II mono and buying a new ASI290MM mini but I'll see how it affects the PE and go from there, it should do better by my precise calculations. If it makes no difference I will have another data point.?
I have not really tested the G11 mount since Scott added the springs to my OPWs, too busy observing the underside of clouds and hanging out with the bad influences of Dr. D's and his posse. I missed a night of bad weather last weekend with the FC-100DZ but hope to be there with my DL for the next session with the DZ.??
Honestly the only reason for the change in autoguiders is so I can use the ZWO ASIAIR-PRO.controller to get all the goodies under one app so to speak. It might work or I might go back to RDPing into the NUC and the ASCOM ecosystem which is probably more flexible overal. But the allure of touch screen smart device control is powerful to the weak minded like me.??
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Sonny,
Nevermind, after re-reading your post if you just want to turn it on and go back inside just do as Brian and Micheal said use the ASCOM controller to align and sync.?
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Sonny,?
I think your steps should have the following inserted.
Then I picked Bright Stars from the list in the Gemini 2, slewed, centered up in the main camera (then select menu - align - alignment) then go to the next star and repeat as in this video?. I only had to do this once or twice on each side of the pier and then the object was usually on the chip from that point on. Of course you first have to have a decent polar alignment, I use polemaster for a quick alignment, and PHD2 drift alignment for a really good alignment, but as Brian mentioned there are others equally good or better.?
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Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Whatever works for you, it works right? Hard to argue with that. ? Though in general for astro imaging, plate solving is faster, more accurate, and more repeatable than pretty much every other approach (of course I can¡¯t say 100%!). In addition it can be completely automated. Oh and really *really* good plate solving software is free. ? I¡¯m not sure why imagers with modern equipment and imaging software would *not* want to plate solve. ? ? ? Brian ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Herman
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] OK, First light worth sharing... ? I can understand why some people might be leery of using Gemini-calculated planet positions, and a Gemini GoTo, for making a Gemini sky model.?? Yet I also find that my own use of the small planets and deep sky objects works just fine for me, when using a PC based sky chart to send Gemini the coordinates of the object.?? So here are some thoughts on why it might be working well for me, but not for those using a Gemini alone.?? I am not using the Gemini-1 programmed planetary positions for the GoTo.? I am instead using Stellarium (see links below) as my PC based Sky Chart.? Stellarium "knows" its coordinates of each deep sky object very accurately.? ?I center that object/planet in Stellarium, then press the CTL-1 to issue the GoTo that position.? And that works just fine.? I center my object then press CTL-3 to Synch or press the Gemini.net Add Align Point to align Gemini to those coordinates.?? I am NOT using the built-in Gemini-1 list of deep sky objects alone.? I think the predicted object positions have be calculated from numerical models from some known earlier position and some time prediction equations.? The model parameters were entered many years ago ago, maybe over a decade ago, so the predictions might have some slight error today for fast moving planetary positions.?? The deep sky objects positions can be looked up, and would not change sky location over our lifetime as they are very far away.? But the Earth's polar axis position is always changing, so that stars like Polaris change their RA and DEC position over the years (also why the polar scope reticule Polaris position changes over they years too, so you need an updated reticule from time to time.)? ?Stellarium on the PC knows these object and planet positions very accurately. So I should revise my advice to say: if using a PC based sky chart, try choosing any star, or deep sky object, or planet in the sky chart, issuing a GoTo from the sky chart (sends the RA and DEC position to Gemini), then center that object/star with the Gemini and your camera or eyepiece, then issue Add Align Point to the Gemini.? Give it a try and see if your Model building becomes faster and easier. Related issue for imaging small faint deep-sky objects with tight field-of-view systems: I find this issue when I have aligned my Gemini to nearby bright stars, then try to GoTo a very faint object for imaging, using PC based Stellarium to show where the mount is pointing: If I issue a GoTo, say to M1 Crab Nebula.? The mount will slew to M1 then stop... Gemini thinks it is done.? In my light polluted area, M1 is invisible.?? In my camera image using a 12 inch f/10 SCT, M1 usually will not be in the image.?? But on the PC, expanding the location shown by the Gemini, I can see that the Gemini shows the mount is slightly off of M1.?? Then I manually slew to dead center the "Scope" icon to the center of M1.?? In my camera image: M1 is usually dead centered in the image frame. So I think the Gemini knows very accurately where it is pointing.?? But somehow the Gemini has a "GoTo tolerance" of some closeness to the object target and it is programmed to stop if the mount gets within that tolerance.?? If you are doing wide-angle shooting like with a refractor, you probably see the target well centered,? but with a very tight field of view like an SCT, you might not find the target in the image field (might be in a wide field eyepiece though!).?? Anyway, try my trick of manually centering the object using your sky chart... see if that solves the problem.?? ?Stellarium??also has add-ins (plug-ins) for asteroids, comets, eyepiece fields of view, camera image chip fields of view, so that you can really "see" what to expect in your camera or image.? It's all free and excellently done.? I am connecting the Gemini-1 using ASCOM, a 4 pin Gemini-1 serial port cable through a ATEN UC232A USB to Serial port device, and the Gemini.net software driver, and the separate program Stellarium-Scope provided freely by??? ? On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:58 AM Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote: Yes - michael has some excellent additions a couple of clarifications: >>>You do that at each of your centered target objects.?? the important part here is centered. do a goto, then center the object, then?do an align. don't align without first centering the target! >>>These can be any goto star (so Gemini knows it's true sky position), but any goto deep sky objects with a clear center, or planet, should also work fine, as long as they were a GoTo .?? yes, but not solar system objects. they are not as accurate. just saw this on the Astro-Physics forum this morning: "One of my personal rules is that I never recalibrate or sync any GOTO mount on solar system objects. The orbital calcs are always complex and positional errors are the rule, not the exception.
-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738"
? On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM Michael Herman <mherman346@...> wrote: Also, ? Using the nice Gemini.net virtual handset that Brian showed, see the underlined work "Func" on the bottom left side, below the "West" diamond button??? If you use a mouse to click the "Func" word, it will drop down a list of available actions.?? One is Meridian Flip, and one is Synch to Current Location, but the one you really want is:? You do that at each of your centered target objects.? These can be any goto star (so Gemini knows it's true sky position), but any goto deep sky objects with a clear center, or planet, should also work fine, as long as they were a GoTo .? Then, only do the Add Align Point once per target.?? The model in the Gemini only gets built from the Add Align Point commands.? Otherwise the default is "Synch Here" and that keeps the existing sky model (all zeros at Cold Boot). ? [Edited Message Follows] Thank You, Brian,
I'm not finding it on the web, I guess I'm clumsy as a bear cub.
Could you help me find it, Please?
I get this:?
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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David C. Partridge
Chip Louie