Hi Lesley,
I do something very similar, I rig the cables to exit the saddle out the side, centered as close to the DEC axis as possible, this minimizes cable weight leverage. I bundle using wire ties or use flex tubing which is then manipulated / rotated and fixed at the tripod side to form a looping arc to avoid any hangups on the pointy stuff the G11 seems to have so much of. Of course all this will change this season for me with the addition of a new imaging controller. All I will have going to the moving part of the mount will be at most a pair of power cords, gotta love technology.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
>>>
Conventional wisdom says I'm wrong. But I think the focal length of the 50mm finder is likely fine,?
I think it's possible, but it's really pushing it. you'd need some really great seeing (bortle 1 sounds pretty good too) and really good solid mounting.?
The real empirical test would be to look at the overall RMS in PHD, and decide how much error is tolerable for you. PHD has gotten really good at sub-pixel accuracy, so the need for smaller pixels is somewhat diminished
I'm still not sure what problems you are experiencing in imaging, but it might be helpful to show us some of your images and guidelogs and we can help diagnose what is the problem.
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:53 PM Chip Louie < chiplouie@...> wrote: [Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Corrections, additional information, clarity.]
Hi Natalie,
Conventional wisdom says I'm wrong. But I think the focal length of the 50mm finder is likely fine, depending on your autoguider camera you may just need smaller pixels. A few years ago I tested using my then stock configuration G11 with HP worms, straight 2-piece worm block drivetrain (Bellevue discs to preload the bearings) with PHD2 running a QHY5L-II mono cam screwed to the helical focuser drawtube of my SV50mm f/4 guide scope in the SV clamshell clamped to a Vixen dovetail on top of a Meade 10" f/6.3 SCT (weighs as much as my C11!). The results proved that a G11 with a Gemini I, even in the oldest possible configuration when carefully setup and adjusted in the COLD can track with a very good PE of 0.48"-0.34" RMS when piggybacked with a solidly mounted guide scope setup. I then retested that same night within minutes and repeated the test with the QHY5L-II mono at prime focus and did not see any difference in PE error RMS. I did the same testing a year later using the same mount and same HP worms after it was updated with the new tucked-in servo motors and Gen II OPWs - interestingly, maybe not surprisingly the overall PE error and shape of the curves was the same. The autoguiding testing was done in a dark sky location in the eastern Sierra, about Bottle 1+ which on a good night you almost cast a shadow from starlight here.?
?
This tells me that a short but tall 30+ pound imaging load with a piggybacked but solidly mounted 50mm f/4 guide scope and autoguider camera with 3.74um pixels is more than good enough for imaging with an 10"-11" SCT. I can assure you that it is much easier to find a good guide star with a 50mm f/4 scope than a 3,000mm+ focal length scope and a pick off prism. I'm not going to say you should not use an OAG to autoguide an SCT but it is not because using a small piggy backed autoguider system is inadequate which obviously if well configured they are not if the testing is any indication. But if you can find a way lock the SCT's mirror and use an external focuser with autofocus going piggybacked for the autoguider is something you might consider to save time.?
Me, I'm waiting for some parts to arrive. I plan to do some driveway imaging this year with my G11G now with spring loaded OPGs and the same Meade 10" f/6.3 native SCT operating at f/2.5 with an ASI183MM PRO and filter wheel. I will be using the same SV50 f/4 guide scope up top but an upgraded tiny pixel ASI290MM mini autoguider camera. But I was also expecting the L.A. Kings to do better than they did two season ago, instead they burst into flames. Derek knows what I'm talking about. ??
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Hi Natalie,
Conventional wisdom says I'm wrong. But I think the focal length of the 50mm finder is likely fine, depending on your autoguider camera you may just need smaller pixels. A few years ago I tested using my then stock configuration G11 with HP worms, straight 2-piece worm block drivetrain (Bellevue discs to preload the bearings) with PHD2 running a QHY5L-II mono cam screwed to the helical focuser drawtube of my SV50mm f/4 guide scope in the SV clamshell clamped to a Vixen dovetail on top of a Meade 10" f/6.3 SCT (weighs as much as my C11!). The results proved that a G11 with a Gemini I, even in the oldest possible configuration when carefully setup and adjusted in the COLD can track with a very good PE of 0.48"-0.34" RMS when piggybacked with a solidly mounted guide scope setup. I then retested that same night within minutes and repeated the test with the QHY5L-II mono at prime focus and did not see any difference in PE error RMS. I did the same testing a year later using the same mount and same HP worms after it was updated with the new tucked-in servo motors and Gen II OPWs - interestingly, maybe not surprisingly the overall PE error and shape of the curves was the same. The autoguiding testing was done in a dark sky location in the eastern Sierra, about Bottle 1+ which on a good night you almost cast a shadow from starlight here.?
?
This tells me that a short but tall 30+ pound imaging load with a piggybacked but solidly mounted 50mm f/4 guide scope and autoguider camera with 3.74um pixels is more than good enough for imaging with an 10"-11" SCT. I can assure you that it is much easier to find a good guide star with a 50mm f/4 scope than a 3,000mm+ focal length scope and a pick off prism. I'm not going to say you should not use an OAG to autoguide an SCT but it is not because using a small piggy backed autoguider system is inadequate which obviously if well configured they are not if the testing is any indication. But if you can find a way lock the SCT's mirror and use an external focuser with autofocus going piggybacked for the autoguider is something you might consider to save time.?
Me, I'm waiting for some parts to arrive. I plan to do some driveway imaging this year with my G11G now with spring loaded OPGs and the same Meade 10" f/6.3 native SCT operating at f/2.5 with an ASI183MM PRO and filter wheel. I will be using the same SV50 f/4 guide scope up top but an upgraded tiny pixel ASI290MM mini autoguider camera. But I was also expecting the L.A. Kings to do better than they did two season ago, instead they burst into flames. Derek knows what I'm talking about. ??
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Yes - michael has some excellent additions
a couple of clarifications:
>>>You do that at each of your centered target objects.?? the important part here is centered. do a goto, then center the object, then?do an align. don't align without first centering the target!
>>>These can be any goto star (so Gemini knows it's true sky position), but any goto deep sky objects with a clear center, or planet, should also work fine, as long as they were a GoTo .??
yes, but not solar system objects. they are not as accurate.
just saw this on the Astro-Physics forum this morning:
"One of my personal rules is that I never recalibrate or sync any GOTO mount on solar system objects. The orbital calcs are always complex and positional errors are the rule, not the exception.
-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738"
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: Also, Using the nice Gemini.net virtual handset that Brian showed, see the underlined work "Func" on the bottom left side, below the "West" diamond button???
If you use a mouse to click the "Func" word, it will drop down a list of available actions.?? One is Meridian Flip, and one is Synch to Current Location, but the one you really want is:?
Add Align point
You do that at each of your centered target objects.? These can be any goto star (so Gemini knows it's true sky position), but any goto deep sky objects with a clear center, or planet, should also work fine, as long as they were a GoTo .?
Then, only do the Add Align Point once per target.??
The model in the Gemini only gets built from the Add Align Point commands.? Otherwise the default is "Synch Here" and that keeps the existing sky model (all zeros at Cold Boot).
Have fun!
Michael
?
[Edited Message Follows]
Thank You, Brian,
I'm not finding it on the web, I guess I'm clumsy as a bear cub.
Could you help me find it, Please?
I get this:?
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Also, Using the nice Gemini.net virtual handset that Brian showed, see the underlined work "Func" on the bottom left side, below the "West" diamond button???
If you use a mouse to click the "Func" word, it will drop down a list of available actions.?? One is Meridian Flip, and one is Synch to Current Location, but the one you really want is:?
Add Align point
You do that at each of your centered target objects.? These can be any goto star (so Gemini knows it's true sky position), but any goto deep sky objects with a clear center, or planet, should also work fine, as long as they were a GoTo .?
Then, only do the Add Align Point once per target.??
The model in the Gemini only gets built from the Add Align Point commands.? Otherwise the default is "Synch Here" and that keeps the existing sky model (all zeros at Cold Boot).
Have fun!
Michael
?
[Edited Message Follows]
Thank You, Brian,
I'm not finding it on the web, I guess I'm clumsy as a bear cub.
Could you help me find it, Please?
I get this:?
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Sonny - are you looking for ?
you can download it from this page:
??
how are you connecting the mount to your PC?? what other software are you using for imaging, guiding, etc.?
depending on your answer, it may involve some additional software, which is probably free as wel
Thank You, Brian,
I'm not finding it on the web, I guess I'm clumsy as a bear cub.
Could you help me find it, Please?
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Thank You, Brian,
I'm not finding it on the web, I guess I'm clumsy as a bear cub.
Could you help me find it, Please?
I get this:?
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: OK, First light worth sharing...
Hi Sonny ? If you are imaging, polar alignment is pretty important. If you are breaking down and setting up each night, you’ll probably want to go through this process. It gets easier and faster the more you do it. ? My suggestion is you use sharpcap’s polar align tool (really inexpensive, easy to use and very accurate) or polemaster (expensive, very easy to use, accurate but not as much). ? Regarding the virtual hand controller, gemini already has several virtual hand controllers available ? There is one in gemini.net – double click the rainbow colored “gemini.net” on your computer and you’ll get it ?
(this works if you are connected via usb or Ethernet) ? ? There is also a web version if you are connected to your mount via Ethernet ? Brian ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] OK, First light worth sharing... ? Rather than put several mediocre pictures up here, because this isn't meant for that, I offer a link to a Photography site I haunt.
Please come back because I need a little guidance here.
In the past, I found my way around Polar Alignment by leaving my mount set up, and simply bringing my telescope and computer in and out. (A Warm Start)
But with my new Losmandy work of art, I'm packing it in and out. So my old ways can't be used.
I've taken to drawing pencil lines around where the feet land to try and get as close to the previous nights spot as possible. And I realize it only gets me so close, and I still have to get my PA adjusted. No problem.
Then... turn on the mount. From what I've gathered, a Cold Start is what I need to do. And what I did last night.
Then I picked Bright Stars from the list in the Gemini 2, slewed, centered up in the main camera, and went to a next star. Is that correct? Does the G2 just remember the star after I've centered it up? Or am I missing a step here? Because I think I'm not doing this quite right yet.
Should I be building a Model, like Scott shows with 3 West and 1 East, as my initial procedure?
I feel like I was missing many attempts last night because I went to apparently blank space and couldn't find my object. So I moved on to something else in the Stellarium FOV. Which is working as I had hoped it would controlling the 811 (Or Gemini 2? Sorry, learning my way around the terminology)
When I do find my object, I center it up, then start PHD2 guiding (I closed and restarted PHD2 after crossing the meridian going for the Flaming Star Nebula. Pretty easy with the latest PHD2.) That's the way I learned to do it with my old mount.
Or do you find building a model is the best way to find accuracy for slewing?
My eyepieces are my cameras.
Basically, I'm trying to operate remotely, after my initial start up. But without a virtual hand controller, I have to go back out to do corrections. Kind of counter-intuitive.
I miss being able to run the scope completely remotely.
A thought: Do I maybe need to update the Gemini 2's software? I shouldn't think so, but wondering.
Thanks in advance for any knowledge you'd care to share.
A Calf finding his footing for the first time here. ;^) LOL!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
OK, First light worth sharing...
Rather than put several mediocre pictures up here, because this isn't meant for that, I offer a link to a Photography site I haunt.
Please come back because I need a little guidance here.
In the past, I found my way around Polar Alignment by leaving my mount set up, and simply bringing my telescope and computer in and out. (A Warm Start)
But with my new Losmandy work of art, I'm packing it in and out. So my old ways can't be used.
I've taken to drawing pencil lines around where the feet land to try and get as close to the previous nights spot as possible. And I realize it only gets me so close, and I still have to get my PA adjusted. No problem.
Then... turn on the mount. From what I've gathered, a Cold Start is what I need to do. And what I did last night.
Then I picked Bright Stars from the list in the Gemini 2, slewed, centered up in the main camera, and went to a next star. Is that correct? Does the G2 just remember the star after I've centered it up? Or am I missing a step here? Because I think I'm not doing this quite right yet.
Should I be building a Model, like Scott shows with 3 West and 1 East, as my initial procedure?
I feel like I was missing many attempts last night because I went to apparently blank space and couldn't find my object. So I moved on to something else in the Stellarium FOV. Which is working as I had hoped it would controlling the 811 (Or Gemini 2? Sorry, learning my way around the terminology)
When I do find my object, I center it up, then start PHD2 guiding (I closed and restarted PHD2 after crossing the meridian going for the Flaming Star Nebula. Pretty easy with the latest PHD2.) That's the way I learned to do it with my old mount.
Or do you find building a model is the best way to find accuracy for slewing?
My eyepieces are my cameras.
Basically, I'm trying to operate remotely, after my initial start up. But without a virtual hand controller, I have to go back out to do corrections. Kind of counter-intuitive.
I miss being able to run the scope completely remotely.
A thought: Do I maybe need to update the Gemini 2's software? I shouldn't think so, but wondering.
Thanks in advance for any knowledge you'd care to share.
A Calf finding his footing for the first time here. ;^) LOL!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Oh, sorry to hear Nat.
Hope you all get better soon!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: Port plugs to keep gemini (and other stuff) clean
This is a really great idea Brian, just received the plugs today. Thank you and HAPPY SKIES and good star hunting.
|
Sorry everyone, but our whole household has been out sick for past few days...?
will reply in detail in a day or two...
Thanks,
Nat
|
Re: Misconnected motor cables
I’m making up a set for a user in Italy in the next few days – I’ll be using External grade Cat6 cable (23 AWG stranded copper conductors). ? David
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Paul via Groups.Io
Sent: 11 February 2020 22:08
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Misconnected motor cables ? Thanks! I see those connectors are under $5 each and available from Newark.com.?
Do you have a recommendation on the raw cabling to use?
I am an experienced cable/harness maker but that was many years ago!
--
Rick Paul
Tucson, AZ
|
Re: Misconnected motor cables
Thank you - ?I just looked at the pictures on the website!? It would appear that Losmandy have changed the cables to ones that will definitely be much harder to plug in incorrectly. ? David ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: 11 February 2020 21:16
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Misconnected motor cables ? The cables for my RA and Dec on my new GM811G would be terribly hard to plug in wrong.
They have a steel guide shroud, with a dimpled guide, and they are marked "Top" to help locate the correct orientation.
One of my bigger concerns is unplugging and connecting them every night of use causing excessive wear.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: Misconnected motor cables
Oh yeah, Brian, I do leave as much together as possible.
But every time a connection is plugged together or taken apart, it's a metal on metal wear.
I know I wore out some USB connectors with constant connecting and disconnecting. Not the same as a DIN connector, I know.
But it makes me wonder, what with connecting and disconnecting the motors every use.
Having spent my life working on electrical and control systems, I'm very careful when connecting things.
Great call on the plugs for the unused ports. I got red ones so I can find them if they go astray.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: Misconnected motor cables
It can be made. David Partridge, gave us the wiring key. Andma better brand of connectors.
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
toggle quoted message
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-------- Original message --------
From: "Richard Paul via Groups.Io" <rickpaul@...>
Date: 2/11/20 4:08 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Misconnected motor cables
Thanks! I see those connectors are under $5 each and available from Newark.com.?
Do you have a recommendation on the raw cabling to use?
I am an experienced cable/harness maker but that was many years ago!
--
Rick Paul
Tucson, AZ
|
Re: Port plugs to keep gemini (and other stuff) clean
Me too!
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
Re: Misconnected motor cables
Thanks! I see those connectors are under $5 each and available from Newark.com.?
Do you have a recommendation on the raw cabling to use?
I am an experienced cable/harness maker but that was many years ago!
--
Rick Paul
Tucson, AZ
|
Re: Misconnected motor cables
>>>
One of my bigger concerns is unplugging and connecting them every night of use causing excessive wear. i haven't run into that issue and i've been plugging/unplugging for maybe 8 years now. but you do have to go slow and be mindful
is there any way you can leave most of it connected and just move just the head?
The cables for my RA and Dec on my new GM811G would be terribly hard to plug in wrong.
They have a steel guide shroud, with a dimpled guide, and they are marked "Top" to help locate the correct orientation.
One of my bigger concerns is unplugging and connecting them every night of use causing excessive wear.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Re: Misconnected motor cables
Sonny, that dimple is not very stout and it will go in wrong. Michael is repairing one now, and
that's what happens to it. Others have done it to. Marking them is easy and cheap.
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message --------
From: Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...>
Date: 2/11/20 3:16 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Misconnected motor cables
The cables for my RA and Dec on my new GM811G would be terribly hard to plug in wrong.
They have a steel guide shroud, with a dimpled guide, and they are marked "Top" to help locate the correct orientation.
One of my bigger concerns is unplugging and connecting them every night of use causing excessive wear.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Chip Louie
Michael Herman
David C. Partridge
Richard Paul