Re: Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Les,
You will get decent images with anything under 0.9" RMS when guided. Don't let chasing the lowest PE hold you up, let the images be your guide. If you are not fully optimized and slightly oversampling then guiding is not so important, get some experience and have some fun and get good enough at the process, you will find out if PE is holding your images back. Tackle the lower PE when it becomes an issue.
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Re: First Light, first night, Wow! GM811GHD under the stars.
Got my wiring straightened out this afternoon.
revamped the Gemini 2 USB to the Powered hub and everything is running and working (data wise) through my single USB cable. Nice and tidy.
I even played around with the hand control and put it in Night Mode.
I finally read the last part of the Quick Start guide, and floated around collecting stars and pushing: Menu-Align- Alignment-back collecting more stars after the 1 star alignment.
It worked well enough after 5 stars that Bodes Galaxy came in nice and centered. Just a little nudging to bring it into my crosshairs. Then start up PHD2 and started shooting.
Nothing to write home about, because my images stink right now. But I'm learning the mount in leaps and bounds.
And it's nice to be inside out of the cold.
It's supposed to rain tomorrow.?
--
SonnyE
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Re: First Light, first night, Wow! GM811GHD under the stars.
Very cool. Now make sure your flood insurance is up to date since it will be cloudy and rainy for weeks!
Les
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Re: Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Thanks Chip, this was what I was concerned about as soon as I opened it up. I think I will still go back together with it as is and see what I get. If I can get .6 - .8 guided as Keith I think I will be ok with my small scope. If not, I'm guessing this would be a trip back to the West Coast.
Les
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Re: Computer for remote operation
I bought a used Dell laptop from Dell. It was in perfect condition for $250. It¡¯s been working fine. I can use Remote Desktop but I like to get something small and attached to the mount.?
--
Rick Paul
Tucson, AZ
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Re: Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Thank you Chjp, I had wondered Which version of Superlube to get "food Grade"
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
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-------- Original message --------
From: Chip Louie <chiplouie@...>
Date: 2/8/20 1:15 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Hi Les,
If your G11 is older I have seen them like that using the gear as a bushing. These aren't as smooth but for visual are fine. If imaging you will be better off with the later bearing ring gears. Be sure to use SuperLube, the food grade teflon version to keep
the grease soft in the cold.?
The bearings allow better balance and reduce the load on the stepper and servo motors. I think they also have lower PE due to drag.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
Re: Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Hi Les,
If your G11 is older I have seen them like that using the gear as a bushing. These aren't as smooth but for visual are fine. If imaging you will be better off with the later bearing ring gears. Be sure to use SuperLube, the food grade teflon version to keep the grease soft in the cold.?
The bearings allow better balance and reduce the load on the stepper and servo motors. I think they also have lower PE due to drag.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
Re: Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Keith,
Thanks, that was what I was hoping someone would report! I could see if the ring was worn on the inside of the bore, or the brass sleeve was worn where you could get some error introduced. I agree on the worm bearings, my other G11 that I rebuilt had one that felt like it had gravel in it and wouldn't guide better than 1.8. I did the same as you, bought about 10 of the ABEC 7's and used the best 4 in my last rebuild, but the worst was better than what I had in it, worked like a charm. The mount has always worked well for visual and even a little 35mm film back when I first bought it in 98 but getting into ccd now, even the smallest things make a huge difference. Thanks again, I was hoping someone had good experiences with the ring without a bearing.?
Les
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Re: Computer for remote operation
Hi Chip
regarding old autoguider, are you asking why i switched to 290 or binned?
Short answer is not really, but i think the small pixels can be over emphasized.
within the last few years guiding software (particularly PHD2) has gotten incredibly good at sub-pixel accuracy. so now I"m really paying attention to the guiding resolution rather than the pixel resolution of the guide results.?
my informal experiments show me that guiding with the lodestar x2 vs guiding with 290mm under similar circumstances and imaging gear doesn't really impact the guiding accuracy, even though lodestar's pixels are something like 2.5x bigger (8.4um? as i recall)?
There were a few circumstances under which i did bin the 290mm - one was an OAG on a 12" F8 rc - it was really difficult to find bright enough guidestars in a limited frame, so binning 2 helped tremendously while keeping the guiding around 0.5"
while it's possible not binning it could have resulted in better guiding?? but i could never acquire a guidestar at bin 1.
like they say, sometimes bad breath is better than no breath :) ?
Hi Brian,
Did you have an older autoguider? Did the ASI290MM autoguider improve your autoguiding??
As a small refractor user there is no situation where I would want to use larger pixels. Even if I use the M10" f/6.3 SCT for planetary imaging the ASI183MM Pro as I posted is a perfect match.?
With the addition of the newish Night Owl on the M10" f/6.3 SCT I can image using the same ASI183MM Pro with its small pixels effectively working @ f/2.5 with a 0.77" per pixel and 1.2 x 0.8 degrees FOV. This should be really nice for objects that include any sort of nebulosity which is hard to capture effectively with detail without a billion hours of integration time. At least I'm hoping it will work ?. Sort of a low buck, poor man's RASA without the limitations of using a single focal length dedicated optic like owning a RASA presents.?
I have a lot of projects planned to happen in my driveway with the addition of the monochrome camera and filter wheel. ? We'll see...
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Computer for remote operation
Hi Brian,
Did you have an older autoguider? Did the ASI290MM autoguider improve your autoguiding??
As a small refractor user there is no situation where I would want to use larger pixels. Even if I use the M10" f/6.3 SCT for planetary imaging the ASI183MM Pro as I posted is a perfect match.?
With the addition of the newish Night Owl on the M10" f/6.3 SCT I can image using the same ASI183MM Pro with its small pixels effectively working @ f/2.5 with a 0.77" per pixel and 1.2 x 0.8 degrees FOV. This should be really nice for objects that include any sort of nebulosity which is hard to capture effectively with detail without a billion hours of integration time. At least I'm hoping it will work ?. Sort of a low buck, poor man's RASA without the limitations of using a single focal length dedicated optic like owning a RASA presents.?
I have a lot of projects planned to happen in my driveway with the addition of the monochrome camera and filter wheel. ? We'll see...
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
Re: Computer for remote operation
Hi Rick,
So if the first generation ASIAIR didn't work what did you get instead?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
Re: Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Hi Les.? My G11 is the same as yours, no bearing in the ring gear.? I have the same upgrades you're proposing, and typically get 0.6-0.8" guided.? I asked Scott once if the inner bore of the gear should be greased and he said yes.
I'd say the single biggest effect on guided performance I've found is the worm bearings.? Get a bad one, and you'll see spurious spikes that are too quick and of too great an amplitude to guide out.? I've had ABEC 5 that outperform 7, a bit of a lottery the ones you get. So I get a bunch, put them on my old steel worm temporarily just to feel the smoothness as I spin in hand.? PE is usually slow enough to guide out, but not a noisy bearing.
Keith
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Re: First Light, first night, Wow! GM811GHD under the stars.
Congrats, Sonny, HAPPY SKIES and good hunting to you.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
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-------- Original message --------
From: Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...>
Date: 2/7/20 11:39 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] First Light, first night, Wow! GM811GHD under the stars.
Amazed! Just followed the Quick Start, and away I went.
It was great to meet the folks at Losmandy, and Brian and I were able to meet face to face. Great to meet you Brian!
I spent more time dumbell-dorfing with my old wiring harness tearing it apart than anything else.
After assembling the mount, I set it up out back. I didn't like my old Vixen bar, but I tried it. It had a stray bolt that stopped me from balancing. So I brought it in and managed to get everything transferred to the DUP14 bar.
If I hadn't have stopped to wrestle the old wiring harness I'd have been done when the stars came out. But I have many, many feet of Spiral wrap to remove so I could separate the old wiring. Once done, I connected up the power and the USB from the Powered hub.
I also ran a separate USB from the Gemini II to a separate port on the Baby Dell.
I was really pleased with the one star alignment, and it stayed right with it. Trying to figure out the hand control, I browsed around for a few minutes, then tried the Solar System and saw several available planets. So since I could see her, I picked Venus
and it slewed very close to it. I was only using the guide scope camera at the time because my main camera was sputtering. I thing Stellarium is not quite set up right. But once I shut down Stellarium, The camera held it's own.
So a few tweaks for Stellarium as I go along. Rome wasn't built in a day.
But the new Losmandy Mount is behaving perfectly right out of the box. Staying under 2 seconds in PHD2, and about half of that is under 1 second. Very, very happy.
Taking it easy this first night, just shooting Uranus, because Venus went behind the neighbors trees. Not my normal fare, but hey, learning is a breeze.
Just need to see if I can get Stellarium and the Gemini II to shake hands.
OK, back to playing! It's good to be back!
Ha! Got it! Reopened Stellarium Tried a different COM port, reselected Losmandy G11, and like Emeril sez, BAM! There's the symbol, Losmandy, and it works.
Hummm, off to find a nebula to suck the light out of.
This is undoubtedly the easiest start up I could have hoped for.
Next I need a virtual hand controller. Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
Sonny
--
SonnyE
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Re: First Light, first night, Wow! GM811GHD under the stars.
Nice to hear! I've been using it for a year and a half with great results. As you get more experienced with guiding, you'll easily stay under 1 arc second and much less for objects high in the sky- and it will hold that for very long exposures which you need for narrow band. Whatever issues I thought were with the mount just turned out to be from my inexperience and I am completely happy with it. And yes, cable management is more than half the battle in getting good guiding.
I saw the thread around models vs. plate-solve. My method is to simply ask the mount to go where I want through SGP, then do a blind sync using ANSVR. After that, it the PS2 plate solver works fast and great and even helps me make sure my rotator is in the right position.
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Re: First Light, first night, Wow! GM811GHD under the stars.
Glad to get your report and that your system is behaving very well.? Looking for Uranus...not easy!??
If you use the Gemini.net, you can use a wireless game controller off the PC as a wireless handset. At least for slewing, that works fine.? You can map the buttons a lot of ways if you want to spend time on that.? Aside from wireless movements, you don't get the real handset display...but for that Gemini net in the PC works just fine.
Have fun, Michael
Amazed! Just followed the Quick Start, and away I went.
It was great to meet the folks at Losmandy, and Brian and I were able to meet face to face. Great to meet you Brian!
I spent more time dumbell-dorfing with my old wiring harness tearing it apart than anything else.
After assembling the mount, I set it up out back. I didn't like my old Vixen bar, but I tried it. It had a stray bolt that stopped me from balancing. So I brought it in and managed to get everything transferred to the DUP14 bar.
If I hadn't have stopped to wrestle the old wiring harness I'd have been done when the stars came out. But I have many, many feet of Spiral wrap to remove so I could separate the old wiring. Once done, I connected up the power and the USB from the Powered hub. I also ran a separate USB from the Gemini II to a separate port on the Baby Dell.
I was really pleased with the one star alignment, and it stayed right with it. Trying to figure out the hand control, I browsed around for a few minutes, then tried the Solar System and saw several available planets. So since I could see her, I picked Venus and it slewed very close to it. I was only using the guide scope camera at the time because my main camera was sputtering. I thing Stellarium is not quite set up right. But once I shut down Stellarium, The camera held it's own.
So a few tweaks for Stellarium as I go along. Rome wasn't built in a day.
But the new Losmandy Mount is behaving perfectly right out of the box. Staying under 2 seconds in PHD2, and about half of that is under 1 second. Very, very happy.
Taking it easy this first night, just shooting Uranus, because Venus went behind the neighbors trees. Not my normal fare, but hey, learning is a breeze.
Just need to see if I can get Stellarium and the Gemini II to shake hands.
OK, back to playing! It's good to be back!
Ha! Got it! Reopened Stellarium Tried a different COM port, reselected Losmandy G11, and like Emeril sez, BAM! There's the symbol, Losmandy, and it works.
Hummm, off to find a nebula to suck the light out of.
This is undoubtedly the easiest start up I could have hoped for.
Next I need a virtual hand controller. Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
Sonny
--
SonnyE
|
First Light, first night, Wow! GM811GHD under the stars.
Amazed! Just followed the Quick Start, and away I went.
It was great to meet the folks at Losmandy, and Brian and I were able to meet face to face. Great to meet you Brian!
I spent more time dumbell-dorfing with my old wiring harness tearing it apart than anything else.
After assembling the mount, I set it up out back. I didn't like my old Vixen bar, but I tried it. It had a stray bolt that stopped me from balancing. So I brought it in and managed to get everything transferred to the DUP14 bar.
If I hadn't have stopped to wrestle the old wiring harness I'd have been done when the stars came out. But I have many, many feet of Spiral wrap to remove so I could separate the old wiring. Once done, I connected up the power and the USB from the Powered hub. I also ran a separate USB from the Gemini II to a separate port on the Baby Dell.
I was really pleased with the one star alignment, and it stayed right with it. Trying to figure out the hand control, I browsed around for a few minutes, then tried the Solar System and saw several available planets. So since I could see her, I picked Venus and it slewed very close to it. I was only using the guide scope camera at the time because my main camera was sputtering. I thing Stellarium is not quite set up right. But once I shut down Stellarium, The camera held it's own.
So a few tweaks for Stellarium as I go along. Rome wasn't built in a day.
But the new Losmandy Mount is behaving perfectly right out of the box. Staying under 2 seconds in PHD2, and about half of that is under 1 second. Very, very happy.
Taking it easy this first night, just shooting Uranus, because Venus went behind the neighbors trees. Not my normal fare, but hey, learning is a breeze.
Just need to see if I can get Stellarium and the Gemini II to shake hands.
OK, back to playing! It's good to be back!
Ha! Got it! Reopened Stellarium Tried a different COM port, reselected Losmandy G11, and like Emeril sez, BAM! There's the symbol, Losmandy, and it works.
Hummm, off to find a nebula to suck the light out of.
This is undoubtedly the easiest start up I could have hoped for.
Next I need a virtual hand controller. Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
Sonny
--
SonnyE
|
Re: Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Michael,
You are 100% correct, I have steel worms, I bought brass ones to put in, along with the worm bearings, and spring washers as you describe in your mods.?
All the flat washers and bearings are in place and everything lines up. I was just surprised by the following.
The ring gear (I'm probably using the wrong nomenclature) differences follow. 2011 G11 is silverish with a large bearing, while the 1998 is all black with no bearing and just wondering if I will see a difference in the tracking accuracy or not.
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Re: Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
Hi Les,
Some thoughts on your puzzle:
Aside from the worm, which originally was stainless steel, and then later went to brass, the major parts are aluminum.?
I believe Losmandy anodized all the aluminum surfaces. That is why they recommend against using a polishing paste to to polish down the worm to ring gear teeth.? In doing that you would polish off the hardened ring gear surface.
If the aluminum is anodized, it's surface is converted a very hard Al2O3 (sapphire composition) surface. During the anodization process a dye can be used to change the aluminum color to black or any other color.? It can be left transparent clear too.? So your ring gear color change from black to aluminum from different year versions might mean they left off the black dye.? ?That surface is hidden from view under all the metal covering surfaces.??
As for the bearings being changed... I am not aware of any changes there by Losmandy.? Different models could have different bearings...maybe the Titan would have larger ones.? Some G11 owners did put in a "3rd (cylinder needle) bearing" at the top of the RA or DEC axis. That can help hold the 1.25 inch rotating shafts.? But the top is always a flat needle bearing faced by two hardened needle bearing race surfaces.??
If you left out a top flat needle bearing or it's flat facing washer, the ring gear center would not mesh with the worm gear center.? Those have to be well positioned in height to get a smooth drive.??
You could vary the bottom bearing parts near the clutch knob.? There is nothing critical there for spacing...only up near the ring gear.??
Mark Crossley's website lists these bearing types and their order numbers.
All the best, Michael
?
I have a 2011 G11 which I rebuilt this summer and did several of Micheal Herman's mods. Getting .5 - 1.5 when guided and about 4 - 5 arc/sec peak to peak unguided, everything works nicely. Decided to go ahead and do the same for my 1998 G11 which I know has never been apart. Boy am I glad I did. Bearings were seized from the dried up grease, same story as I have read here a hundred times. Funny thing is I used it in the public library parking lot for the 2017 eclipse as a public outreach event and it performed flawlessly all day, well for visual anyway and shooting some dslr pics of the eclipse. Quite a testament to this mounts ruggedness.?
My question is after disassembly I noticed my newer G11 has a silver ring gear on RA with a large bearing while my older G11 has a black ring gear on RA with no bearing just a solid gear right up to the brass sleeve. Does anyone know why the change? I'm assuming to prevent wear on the ring gear but will it affect tracking at all? Should I expect a difference in performance or will it be equivalent to the newer one. The old mount sat in a closet inside most of its life and I bet it doesn't have 100 hours total on it since 1998 so even though the bearings were seized the shafts are not marked, (not even the smooth marks left from the bearings riding on the shaft like my newer one), and the ring has no wear on it and fits tight on the brass sleeve. I know what I'm going to do with it, clean it up, grease it up, reassemble it, put in the two brass worms I have with new worm bearings and spring washers and give it a go. I was just curious if anyone has any experience with the old vs newer ring gears with and without the bearing and any difference in performance.?
Thanks
Les
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Old Ring Gear vs New Ring Gear G11
I have a 2011 G11 which I rebuilt this summer and did several of Micheal Herman's mods. Getting .5 - 1.5 when guided and about 4 - 5 arc/sec peak to peak unguided, everything works nicely. Decided to go ahead and do the same for my 1998 G11 which I know has never been apart. Boy am I glad I did. Bearings were seized from the dried up grease, same story as I have read here a hundred times. Funny thing is I used it in the public library parking lot for the 2017 eclipse as a public outreach event and it performed flawlessly all day, well for visual anyway and shooting some dslr pics of the eclipse. Quite a testament to this mounts ruggedness.?
My question is after disassembly I noticed my newer G11 has a silver ring gear on RA with a large bearing while my older G11 has a black ring gear on RA with no bearing just a solid gear right up to the brass sleeve. Does anyone know why the change? I'm assuming to prevent wear on the ring gear but will it affect tracking at all? Should I expect a difference in performance or will it be equivalent to the newer one. The old mount sat in a closet inside most of its life and I bet it doesn't have 100 hours total on it since 1998 so even though the bearings were seized the shafts are not marked, (not even the smooth marks left from the bearings riding on the shaft like my newer one), and the ring has no wear on it and fits tight on the brass sleeve. I know what I'm going to do with it, clean it up, grease it up, reassemble it, put in the two brass worms I have with new worm bearings and spring washers and give it a go. I was just curious if anyone has any experience with the old vs newer ring gears with and without the bearing and any difference in performance.?
Thanks
Les
|
Re: Computer for remote operation
I¡¯m a fan of the 290mm and own two of them. If you don¡¯t need such small pixels, remember you can bin it and end up with an even more sensitive camera at larger pixels ? ? Brian ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chip Louie
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2020 1:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Computer for remote operation ? Hi Derek,
The ASI290MM-mini will likely only be used as an autoguider. The question I have been considering is should I spend $150 more for the 290's higher QE rear illuminated, smaller photosites to pick up some additional sensitivity and improved centroid precision, by my calculations maybe 20-30% better which would leave some headroom for the small pixel camera I have. I have been hemming and hawing over this decision for almost two years but back then was considering the QHY178 with its 2.4um rear illuminated sensor but a $450 price and a distinct lack of any real need had me put it on a back burner until now. With the current requirement to use an ASI autoguider to move to the ASIAIR-PRO the need for a decision is here now and the ASI290MM-mini looks right at this time for my needs.?
I'm using a Stellarvue 50mm f/4 guidescope with a QHY5L-II mono threaded into the helical focuser, it is?in a SV one-piece clamshell with a Losmandy D/V adapter used to clamp the guidescope to the top dovetail of whatever imaging scope I use. This is a bomber rig, zero flexure and no chance for misalignment once it is setup. So yes, completely different from your maximum overkill SV80mm f/7 scope.?Unlike your conservative known to work large guidescope solution I looked for the highest possible efficiency and lowest possible weight solution that I could be confident would work. I used a math based model and determined there was no need for a large 80mm guidescope, my assumption was that the then new CMOS autoguider cameras with their higher QEs than previous generation autoguiders could be used with smaller guidescopes. I just played with the numbers and figured out that I should be safe with a 200mm f/4 guidescope and 70%+ QE 3.74um pixel autoguider camera even under the worst case scenario and still get sub arcsecond resolution. To my delight it worked great and even with the M10" f/6.3 SCT the old 2-piece worm block G11's guided PE was well under 0.5" RMS.?
The only reason I am considering the ASI290MM-mini is for the potential improvement for autoguiding. If I want to do planetary imaging would use one of the ASI183MM or MC Pro cameras and set the ROI to 1280x720 to get 100+ FPS for planetary work. With the bespoke Parallax/AT130 f/6 apo loaded up with a 2" 2X PowerMate I get an f/12 instrument @ 0.32"/pixel with a 0.11x 0.06 degree FOV which if you use a sample rate of 3x Dawes is close to ideal for a 130mm optic. I may get slightly tighter images by using the M10" f/6.3 SCT with 2" 2X PowerMate for an f/12.6 instrument @ 0.15"/pixel with a 0.05x 0.03 degree FOV which if using the same 3x Dawes sample rate is just about perfect for the 254mm optic. Either scope should give solid results with the M10" f/6.3 SCT probably really limited by seeing.?
The QHY5L-II-mono autoguider has the same sensor geometry and specs as the ASI120MM mini so they are pretty much interchangeable as far as autoguiding performance and flexibility goes.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Chip Louie
Richard Paul
Michael Herman