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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
Sonny what program are you using? if you are trying to "live solve" you are sort of saying?"i want you to take a picture and solve it" if you already have a pic, i'd suggest going to and uploading it there to witness the magic of plate solve. it's? blind solve, so i don't think it requires accurate fits header data like date/time and loc On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 2:05 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote: Not if you get Chocolate Chip. LOL! --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
Derek i think you and i approach technology in this specific context differently, and that's okay. that's why there's chocolate and vanilla right? My experience and what I wanted to convey is that the old school star alignment is not a prerequisite for astrophotography with today's capabilities, specifically plate solving. it's great to know it, but by no means is it necessary imo. I learned via star hopping, alignments, etc. but knowing what I know now, and i were starting today, i would skip that and go straight to plate solving. once that is working there is little value to knowing about multi-star alignment. It's like saying we should start photography by developing film. there's little value to knowing paper grades, pushing film stock etc. when digital has completely different processes.? Yes it's one more thing to go wrong, but we're talking astrophotography, so you're already dragging out a computer, camera, usb cables, etc. it's only one small thing in addition to the multitude of things that could go wrong. If we're already riding the AP technology train. one more passenger isn't going to bring it to a screeching halt. The key to me is not if stuff will break, it's what is your plan b for when anything breaks. if you can't control your mount and plate solve, chances are you won't be able to guide it, won't be able to dither, etc. the best of modern AP imo really does involve all that stuff.? i appreciate what you are advocating, and I'm not against it at all. i also want to make sure newbies know that you don't have to learn this about losmandy mounts to have accurate gotos. Losmandy catches flack for gemini not being "easy to use" and this is one of those areas that causes people grief. On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 1:10 PM Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...> wrote:
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Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: G11 Clutch Disks
Glad you find these of benefit.? Thanks for all your words of kindness too.? ? Helps get me through some rough spots these days! All the best, Michael On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 12:23 PM Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...> wrote:
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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI'm still a little confused as to why you seem to downplay plate solve *** If you are asking me.. I am doing no such thing, as witnessed by the last line.. Derek i think you said you are still working on getting platesolve working, if you send me a raw file i'll work on it with you :) *** I *AM* working towards Plate Solving / other such things so I too can image all night and across multiple nights.. I am addressing the subject ¡°Getting it through my thick head¡± and / or Newbie¡¯s ?and issues I have heard in this group and / or have had myself.. Namely.. Making it work.. You don¡¯t *NEED* all the technology to image and I maintain that if you go spend $10k for a scope, mount, cameras, computers, and hook it all up, it will invariably NOT WORK.. You need to work up to it and even if it does all work for you for a couple decades, there will be that ONE TIME, you forget a piece ¨C like an Ethernet Cable ¨C and since you have driven an hour to your Dark Sky site, what are you going to do?? Will you just pack it all up and go back home cursing everything and everyone, or will you ¡°fallback¡± to the ¡°non technology based¡± methods of yesteryear?? KISS! Keep It Simple, Stupid! Are words to live by.. ??? Absolutely I wish my semi permanent in the front yard setup to be able to guide at sub arcsecond accuracy, plate solve, etc.. but even if I left everything at home AND had no power in the field, I could still put even an invisible target in my small FOV, and.. to me.. that is the most important thing of all.. Positively identifying a magnitude 18 star, for example.. Technology to make it happen faster or better is secondary.. ?IMO.. I also agree completely with ¡°if it works for you, use it¡±.. You *MUST* know your equipment.. I can use mine just fine, but I couldn¡¯t show up and use yours the way you do.. ??? ??? As for my plate solving, I have never been able to solve any image, even on Astronomy.net. Usually from Watec Video cameras, and from the above, it should be obvious that I know enough about the FOV and scope that it SHOULD work.. I do not (yet) have any samples for anyone else to try and solve.. The images I have acquired previously have all been deleted, as I lack hard drive space.. The New camera will arrive soon, and I *will* begin to use what I have learned in the past few months to move forward.. ? Derek ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 12:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head. ? As they say, whatever works for you, if it works, stick with it ? I'm still a little confused as to why you seem to downplay plate solve ? it is truly a game changer for AP.? ? just?to be clear, once you have it running, there is zero model building, zero multi-star alignment, and targets (visual or not) are solved to within pixels of where they need to be (particularly important for multi-night imaging) ? and it happens automatically. With apps like NINA, SGP, etc. all that centering is handled for you ? with that kind of sophistication, i'm not sure why you would want to do it any other way if you are doing astrophotography? ? Derek i think you said you are still working on getting platesolve working, if you send me a raw file i'll work on it with you :) ? On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 11:57 AM Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...> wrote:
? -- Brian? ? ? ? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýRichard, I Welcom you to the group. I am also a new owner of a G11, the Losmandy polar scope is more sophisticated than some others and will take a bit of getting used to.their are more precise gizmos Like Shapcap and Polemaster. I will look
to one of these in the near future. I like to have old school abilities along with modern devices mainly? for back ups, like being able to do celestial navigation with a sextant even though you have GPS. Okay that said. The Losmandy polar scope will work well
if you can see Polaris of course along with another star. I cant allways see the other stars so I will just center Polaris in the convergence point and Gemini will do the rest quite nicely I might add. Just Google up "Losmandy Polar Scope instructions? you
will find Losmandy's Kenko Polar finder instructions PDF. or www.company7.com and look up "Losmandy pole finder instructions" it works well for viewing, it will not be accurate enough for long exposures for AP. I also will do a drift alignment and with that
I may be able to do short exposures.I think you will Love your G11, it was one of my two best purchases for Astronomy the other is a nightvision device. I think that the first night out with your New G11 just do a fast start routine make sure you pay attention
to your information you put in to the Gemini HC, like the minus signs in location and time zone "I made that mistake my first outing and Gemini thought I was in Russia somewhere". Once done press next on HC? then back, then back again, press GoTo, press The
Bright Star button, select star from list once your mount finishes slewing the HC Will go to home screen use it to center the bright star then press Align then Alignment. And you are done. Easy peasy. I think this routine is a nice place to start with your
Losmandy G11. This Losmandy Group is awesome Lots of great advice and help. I've put together alot of information as a appendium to the Losmandy G11 and Gemini manual from this group of very knowledgeable folks. Oh yeah this was about the Polar scope. Even
in the future when I am using Sharpcap or a polemaster I am glad to have the polar scope also. HAPPY SKIES.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
From: "Richard Paul via Groups.Io" <rickpaul@...>
Date: 2/3/20 2:04 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
Deric - nice to hear! I¡¯m a future owner. Getting my G11 in a few months. How do you like the polar scope?
-- Rick Paul Tucson, AZ |
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Re: Computer for remote operation
Eagle is the deluxe high end version that includes everything you need: computer, wireless router, power outlets, all in one box, ready to mount. you pay a premium for that convenience and special-built purpose. but they are nice and people swear by them ASI also has the ASIAir ans ASIAirPro, which are similar but much more limited and are special purpose to only the software they provide on the computer?itself (for example they have their own version of PHD for guiding, etc.) i think it's raspberry?pi based? Software Bisque just introduced one at AIC this year, though it's not yet shipping. another premium priced all-in-one. looks nice if you prefer to roll your own, intel-nuc is a good choice for telescope-top computer.? there are raspberry Pi options available (i think there are several people on this list that use it and are happy with it) More specific recommendations would depend on what exactly you need and how you envision using it. for example, do you want to log in remotely via ethernet? if so, you'll probably need a telescope-top router or other way to connect them reliably hth On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 11:59 AM Richard Paul via Groups.Io <rickpaul=[email protected]> wrote: All, --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: G11 Clutch Disks
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMichael¡¯s Clutch Discs are the single best improvement that can be made to a Losmandy mount.. ? Derek ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 10:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] G11 Clutch Disks ? Thank You, Les! |
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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
As they say, whatever works for you, if it works, stick with it I'm still a little confused as to why you seem to downplay plate solve it is truly a game changer for AP.? just?to be clear, once you have it running, there is zero model building, zero multi-star alignment, and targets (visual or not) are solved to within pixels of where they need to be (particularly important for multi-night imaging) and it happens automatically. With apps like NINA, SGP, etc. all that centering is handled for you with that kind of sophistication, i'm not sure why you would want to do it any other way if you are doing astrophotography? Derek i think you said you are still working on getting platesolve working, if you send me a raw file i'll work on it with you :) On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 11:57 AM Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...> wrote:
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Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Computer for remote operation
All,
Wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a good ¡°box¡± computer to hook the G11 mount and my cameras. Would like the mount to able to operate remotely. Even if remotely is only 50 feet away in my living room! I¡¯ve seen the PrimaLuce Eagle3 but I¡¯m just wondering if anyone has any practical suggestions that have actually done this. ----------------------------- Rick Paul -- Rick Paul Tucson, AZ |
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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDerek, that's a great information. I will give that a try on my next outing. Happy Skies
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
From: Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...>
Date: 2/3/20 1:24 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
Umm.. Because that¡¯s how it is supposed to work?? :-)) ? Let¡¯s say you put a camera of some kind on the scope.. or (as a visual observer) you installed a Barlow.. Would it still ¡°work¡±? Yes it would, if you have a ¡°plan¡± for when something happens you didn¡¯t expect, namely when the object you are headed to lands outside the FOV.. ?There is a very simple trick that everyone should be using.. Yesterday when I read the Gemini-2 website I saw it there too.. I *always* GOTO a bright object close to my intended target, *then* GOTO the actual target.. Think ¡°Computerized Starhop¡±.. ?My point yesterday is that if you are polar aligned ¨C even close enough ¨C you can then image.. Even if you plate solve, you are using the same exact method.. ?For instance.. If *I* was headed to M78 in Orion to nab an image from the startup position, I would NEVER try to slew straight to M78 (as I use rather small FOV¡¯s), I might GOTO Betelguese.. It would likely be outside my roughly 20x15 arc min FOV.. Turning on the laser would allow me to find it and center it.. SYNCH.. Then maybe I would GOTO Alnitak, center and SYNCH.. Then I would be pretty confident that when I did a GOTO to M78, it would be near the center of the FOV and certainly at least in the FOV.. SYNCH on it, in case I accidentally press some button that sends the mount off to some other target so I can return to where I was supposed be.. This is a bright example, but it works just as well for any object your equipment is capable of showing, and doesn¡¯t involve plate solving, model building, Stellarium, or an Ethernet cable.. It is simply, If you want your GOTO¡¯s to be 100% accurate, make them as short as possible.. i.e. Alnitak to M78, Polaris to M78.. ?Technology comes AFTER this point not before.. IMHO.. ? Derek ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Deric Caselli ? Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies ? ? ? Sent from my Galaxy Tab A |
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Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýJust an FYI.. You say ¡°traditionally¡±.. Are you aware of their new ones that they just recently designed and produced?? I know nothing of them.. or the old models.. as I had no need for one so never looked into them.. nor do I doubt your impressions.. Just checking to make sure you are talking about their new offerings.. ??? I do, however, love Stellarvue.. ? Derek ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chip Louie
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 9:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount ? [Edited
Message Follows] Derek, |
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Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThank you Chip, I will go with a Berlebach planet. They are proven and well respected.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
From: Chip Louie <chiplouie@...>
Date: 2/3/20 11:54 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount
Deric,
Stellarvue's wood tripods while pretty are traditionally heavy and quite expensive for the payload they carry. The Denali is the smallest, lightest model with a max. height of 41" and weighs about 17lb. For $400 you can buy better wood tripods for the small AVX class GEM heads.? -- Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware |
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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBrian, yes for now I am visual, and I agree with the accuracy for AP my focal length is 2032mm SCT telescopes are generally long in focal length. I will join the pack soon with a short focal length small aperture fast APO and moded DSLR camera.
Then comes the challenge. " The Lull that arrives before the tempest fosters hubris in average men but strikes fear apon ithe hearts of wise Mariners" LOL...?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Date: 2/3/20 11:24 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
My guess is you are doing visual and it sounds like not a tremendously long focal length? so for your purposes that sounds like it should work fine ? For astrophotography, having to center an invisible target to within 50pixels, night after night, and keep it there for hours. That probably requires a bit more accuracy ? ? ? Thanks ? Brian ? portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/ ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Deric Caselli ? Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies ? ? ? Sent from my Galaxy Tab A ? ? ? -------- Original message -------- From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...> Date: 2/2/20 9:02 PM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head. ? >>> Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house. ? they are just coming back from a show in UK, so maybe give it a day or two. I think they are back tuesday ? Also i'd say get cracking on making plate solve work! if you are going to image, you are going to need all that stuff working for you, not against you lol ? Brian ? On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote:
? -- Brian? ? ? ? Brian Valente portfolio |
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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýUmm.. Because that¡¯s how it is supposed to work?? :-)) ? Let¡¯s say you put a camera of some kind on the scope.. or (as a visual observer) you installed a Barlow.. Would it still ¡°work¡±? Yes it would, if you have a ¡°plan¡± for when something happens you didn¡¯t expect, namely when the object you are headed to lands outside the FOV.. ?There is a very simple trick that everyone should be using.. Yesterday when I read the Gemini-2 website I saw it there too.. I *always* GOTO a bright object close to my intended target, *then* GOTO the actual target.. Think ¡°Computerized Starhop¡±.. ?My point yesterday is that if you are polar aligned ¨C even close enough ¨C you can then image.. Even if you plate solve, you are using the same exact method.. ?For instance.. If *I* was headed to M78 in Orion to nab an image from the startup position, I would NEVER try to slew straight to M78 (as I use rather small FOV¡¯s), I might GOTO Betelguese.. It would likely be outside my roughly 20x15 arc min FOV.. Turning on the laser would allow me to find it and center it.. SYNCH.. Then maybe I would GOTO Alnitak, center and SYNCH.. Then I would be pretty confident that when I did a GOTO to M78, it would be near the center of the FOV and certainly at least in the FOV.. SYNCH on it, in case I accidentally press some button that sends the mount off to some other target so I can return to where I was supposed be.. This is a bright example, but it works just as well for any object your equipment is capable of showing, and doesn¡¯t involve plate solving, model building, Stellarium, or an Ethernet cable.. It is simply, If you want your GOTO¡¯s to be 100% accurate, make them as short as possible.. i.e. Alnitak to M78, Polaris to M78.. ?Technology comes AFTER this point not before.. IMHO.. ? Derek ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 9:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head. ? Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies ? ? ? Sent from my Galaxy Tab A |
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Re: Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.
Sonny Edmonds
Sounds like you hit a good Polar Alignment.
I used to have good nights and bad nights. Eventually I had more good nights than bad nights. But, when I stopped moving my mount, I had almost all good nights. I'd just put my bag on, then my 32 gallon dome. And come back the next night to a nearly Polar Aligned mount. Just a quick tweak, and onward through the night. But I'm in it for imaging Nebula. Just fascinated with it. I use an Orion ED80T CF as my telescope. |
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Re: G11 Clutch Disks
Sonny Edmonds
Thank You, Les!
I'm on the fence about them, but that is because I'm nearly to getting my new mount from Losmandy. You think you are slow? I've been out a mount since November. But expecting to fix that later this month or at the very latest, early March. ;^) But it is good to read your review of your results. Thanks! Sonny |
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Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
Derek,
Stellarvue's wood tripods while pretty are traditionally heavy and quite expensive for the payload they carry. The Denali is the smallest, lightest model with a max. height of 41" and weighs about 17lb. For $400 you can buy better wood tripods for the small AVX class GEM heads from Berlebach. The Reporter line is lighter and taller and carries telescopes very well, trust me. -- Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware |
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G11 Clutch Disks
So I just ordered, received, and installed Michael Herman's clutch disks. Fit and finish were spot on, installed in about 10 minutes, mainly because I am slow, and wow what a difference. Made everything feel like it was locked in with minimal tightening of the axis. One of the difficulties I have been having, and didn't even know it until I tried something better was when leveling the dec and RA for CWD. Before the disks I would level the axis and when cranking down the knob it would rotate the axis about half the time. With the new disks, as soon as they make contact they stop moving need VERY little further tightening. I'm guessing it renders the push-to capability difficult but I am imaging and after turning the scope on in the CWD position I go back in the house.?Nice job on these Michael and if any of you are on the fence about these I highly recommend getting them.
Les |
Michael Herman
Richard Paul
Chip Louie