Re: 12" extension and RA/Dec Cable length
Just so everyone (new) knows:
If you were to mistakenly rotate the motor cable end, and shove it forcefully into the motor or Gemini incorrectly, you will blow out the motor control chip in the Gemini.? ??
You might think this is nearly impossible, but every so often it happens.? And the Gemini units need a repair.? The round DIN cable plug has a small barely indented "detent" so it is possible to mis-rotate the plug and still push it into the female socket.?
So it is very valuable to put some kind of label on the cable ends, and on the motors and on the Gemini point of cable connection.
Just for example, here is a picture of how I labelled my Gemini1 and it's mating cable ends, using a white label-maker tape.
Best, Michael
?
Thanks Michael, I bet I would be interested in longer cables. But not until I actually do have a mount, and have had the time to experiment with how I would choose to route them.
As for Identifiers, plugs anodized in identifying colors on both ends could easily do the trick. Red for RA, As a suggestion.
But if I do put a base on my block wall, and I do make a pier-like mount there (4" base + 12" extension), I do think I would want long RA and DEC cables. Possibly 48" so the mount head, and my telescope wiring can be routed semi-permanently. Building a loom for the specific location. And also for the mount on the tripod with the 12" extension, and then simply plug in the USB and Power at the Gemini Area down low. (Wall height)
When I decided to put my to condense all the cables into a single to come down to my laptop, I went the further step and found shorter cables in USB-B to USB-A (16") and put them into a loom on my telescope for the camera's and my focuser. I dropped my project of motorizing my 9 position filter wheel because It just lost its appeal for me. But the 7 slot hub has a lot of room to grow.
The purpose was/is to tidy up all the wiring, and to reduce things to a Power wire, and a single USB cable to the ground.
New mount calls for rethinking/applying things, which I like anyway. That is fun to me.
But personally, I'm not sold on internal wiring. To me, there isn't enough room for flex of the wiring in the tight spaces inside a mount. So I'm for outside where I can change, rearrange, or easily replace my loom. Just a personal preference based on experience. So not a fan.
|
Re: Rubbermaid "Observashed" for my G11
Looks good to me Bill.
I have some of these sheds for storing stuff.
Mine are separating at the corners. Trying to figure out how to re-secure them.
But like your ingenuity.
|
Re: Astro-Imaging, the incurable disease !
OK, Ethernet hooks up then later will not.? HC firmware updated to 2017, and no further.? Think I will just go USB for now.? Obviously Ethernet connection is not reliable.? Gemini II site states it is more reliable than USB.? That is funny.
Been using USB for 20 years on Celestron and Meade mounts.? Never a problem.? Hooked it up in 5 minutes and works fine on my GII also.? Maybe it is Win 10 compatibility, don't know, but Imaging is hard enough without having to spend hours on a Ethernet connection setup that does not work.
Thanks? ?Gary?
|
Re: 12" extension and RA/Dec Cable length
Thanks Michael, I bet I would be interested in longer cables. But not until I actually do have a mount, and have had the time to experiment with how I would choose to route them.
As for Identifiers, plugs anodized in identifying colors on both ends could easily do the trick. Red for RA, As a suggestion.
But if I do put a base on my block wall, and I do make a pier-like mount there (4" base + 12" extension), I do think I would want long RA and DEC cables. Possibly 48" so the mount head, and my telescope wiring can be routed semi-permanently. Building a loom for the specific location. And also for the mount on the tripod with the 12" extension, and then simply plug in the USB and Power at the Gemini Area down low. (Wall height)
When I decided to put my to condense all the cables into a single to come down to my laptop, I went the further step and found shorter cables in USB-B to USB-A (16") and put them into a loom on my telescope for the camera's and my focuser. I dropped my project of motorizing my 9 position filter wheel because It just lost its appeal for me. But the 7 slot hub has a lot of room to grow.
The purpose was/is to tidy up all the wiring, and to reduce things to a Power wire, and a single USB cable to the ground.
New mount calls for rethinking/applying things, which I like anyway. That is fun to me.
But personally, I'm not sold on internal wiring. To me, there isn't enough room for flex of the wiring in the tight spaces inside a mount. So I'm for outside where I can change, rearrange, or easily replace my loom. Just a personal preference based on experience. So not a fan.
|
Re: Astro-Imaging, the incurable disease !
Thanks Chuck:? I got hooked up earlier today.? Then I ran Gemini updater program.? That was a disaster.? It proceeded correctly, but when flash should have started, got bunch of error messages.? Originally I had 2014 firmware, think it is now 2017, but then started saying update main board.? Read Tom's how to on that, but file he listed to get started never came up on computer.? Another disaster.
Now Nothing hooks up as before.? ha...Oh well.
Gary
|
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
Nice Derek, that you don't have to move. Nice place their in the Bay Area. Easy to get to? dark sites.and not far from michael, if you need something or other.The Losmandy HD tripod is a beast. But I guess I will try a Berlebach when I find a GM8 and see
it is as nice as they say they are.
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message --------
From: Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...>
Date: 2/1/20 10:23 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount
I already had this mount from my 12¡± LX200.. I left it out so long that the legs are no longer adjustable
for length due to rust, and even though the legs are frozen at different lengths, it sits perfectly in the front yard since it became frozen in almost the same spot.. When I bought the used G11 from a guy 30 minutes away, I acquired my 2nd Meade
GFT, though that one is stored inside, having learned my lesson that the legs aren¡¯t meant for long term exposure..
??? I am hoping that I can dismount the G11 and my scope and take the ¡°good¡± GFT mobile, and when
I return be able to remount things and have it be rather close to still polar aligned (as I wouldn¡¯t adjust the mount)..
??? I would have been quite OK w/ a Losmandy tripod.. Maybe that¡¯s because I never have seen one in
person and think it has a smaller foot print and is shorter when assembled, I don¡¯t know.. The Meade GFT is built like a tank and I have always believe it would support a bus..
??? A Side Note.. I *really* like the link before.. A Tak refractor on a Titan.. Reminds me of when
Michael laughed at me when I was worried that the G11 wouldn¡¯t handle my SVR130 Raptor.. ¡°It wouldn¡¯t even know it¡¯s there¡± and how he said it would handle my deforked 12¡± Meade.. :-))
??? Now to go drive an hour to meet ¨C and THANK ¨C my landlord who turned down the offer from the guy
who *really* wanted to buy this place and ruin everything.. YEAH ME! :-))..
??? OH! If someone has a Losmandy mount and wishes they had a Meade instead, I would be the guy most
convincible of a trade.. At a minimum you¡¯d have to live in the SF Bay Area.. California maybe.. I am NOT shipping a Giant Field Tripod..
?Derek
?
?
ah i understand now. that makes more sense
?
Scroll thru this (not mine) that shows this clearly..
?
?
Derek
?
?
if i'm following this correctly, your non-losmandy legs have only a center bolt and you've had to figure out workarounds for getting it to not rotate on top of
the tripod?
Boy that sounds like a great argument for going with losmandy tripod!
?
Well then..
I did it that way, because no matter how tight I tightened the center bolt
(when I first got the mount), once I added the 38 pound G11 and 30 pounds or so of equipment, the T handle under the spreader bar would invariably not be as tight as it was.. At that point I could not apply the wrench to hold the nut anymore, since the mount
¨C obviously ¨C hides it..
??? To make it ¡°better¡±, I learned that as soon as you think your tripod has the legs spread
and it¡¯s level, and everything is tight, to go around to each leg and pick it up slightly and set them ack down.. Then retighten everything.. Then load the mount and equipment and it is LIKELY to remain all tight..
??? Then, just in case it ever came loose again.. I put the three screws in so the MA Adapter
wouldn¡¯t rotate if the center bolt wasn¡¯t snug enough from all the slewing of the telescope I do..
??? It didn¡¯t want it to change azimuth and ruin my extensive drift alignment..
?
This is,also, why I asked a while back about using a compass so that when I set the mount
down initially, I make sure to do it well enough to have adequate range on the Azimuth adjuster..
?
Derek
?
?
Derek,
To me, discussion are flows of thought. As long as the water keeps flowing, why dam it up?
Never had a Meade myself. But I've been to .
Yep, I am incorrigible. Sorry Dude.
--
--
|
Re: Astro-Imaging, the incurable disease !
Gary
I had the same experience because Microsoft? 10 has tried to prevent intrusions into the OS.?? So I found two ways around Microsoft.? First,? manually add the IP address of the mount via one of the tools in the lan/wireless interface. The problem there is you have to do it every so often as windows "forgets" your manual setup.?? The one I have used for two years is I had an old DSL wireless router from at&t that was rendered useless when they converted to uverse.?? So I went in and set up in the router a set of IP addresses,? say 192.130.0.050 to 192.130.0.253 (why explained below) or just one address 192.130.0.050.? The wireless at&t router worked on 12v,? a plus.? So,? to get it to work,? I set my windows to recognize the at&t router (which may require a lan cable to set up at first)? then made sure,? via the mount hand controller,? that the IP address is set to 192.130.0.050. Since windows is designed to accept valid wireless routers,? it makes easier.?
You may have to use did ping to validate the address is connecting to the router or ipconfig. Why?? If you get one used and don't know what the original IP setup at the factory for the gateway,? you will have some fun finding it.?? Most are set to 192.168.xxx.xxx.? Once you find it and this usually requires a lan cable,? you access the router IP table via a web page set to the router gateway address.? A further complication is a different IP address will be set for wireless or for language in windows,? so keep that in mind.?? That's why your router table should have more than one IP address.? I may not use the appropriate terminology as I am not a computer science guy. So,? once you have everything setup correctly,? you can access the Geminii web page with the knowledge that the IP address will be different depending on if wireless or lan.
Chuck
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 Gary C. via Groups.Io <[email protected]> wrote:Thanks Tim:? I have 4 Win 10 computers.? None of them will auto detect Gemini II.? Net Bios is on.? Auto detect on, DHCP etc.?
Have tried multiple scenarios, numbers inserted IP, Gateway etc. etc.? Nothing works.? Interestingly when I change these protocols, not only does Gemini not work, my entire network goes off line.? If I then reboot auto detect brings back defaults again and of course all fine.
I am a computer nut, even though old.? I build computers sometimes, but ones I'm using are all Dell.? I have a dozen or more devices, printers, scanners etc., all of which work.? Of course none are set up thru Ethernet or WiFi.
I have At&T hi-speed with combo modem/router with 4 Cat cable outlets and WiFi.? None work for Gemini.? Ha...
Gary
|
Re: Astro-Imaging, the incurable disease !
Thanks Tim:? I have 4 Win 10 computers.? None of them will auto detect Gemini II.? Net Bios is on.? Auto detect on, DHCP etc.?
Have tried multiple scenarios, numbers inserted IP, Gateway etc. etc.? Nothing works.? Interestingly when I change these protocols, not only does Gemini not work, my entire network goes off line.? If I then reboot auto detect brings back defaults again and of course all fine.
I am a computer nut, even though old.? I build computers sometimes, but ones I'm using are all Dell.? I have a dozen or more devices, printers, scanners etc., all of which work.? Of course none are set up thru Ethernet or WiFi.
I have At&T hi-speed with combo modem/router with 4 Cat cable outlets and WiFi.? None work for Gemini.? Ha...
Gary
|
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
I
already had this mount from my 12¡± LX200.. I left it out so long that the
legs are no longer adjustable for length due to rust, and even though the legs
are frozen at different lengths, it sits perfectly in the front yard since it
became frozen in almost the same spot.. When I bought the used G11 from a guy
30 minutes away, I acquired my 2nd Meade GFT, though that one is stored
inside, having learned my lesson that the legs aren¡¯t meant for long term
exposure..
??? I
am hoping that I can dismount the G11 and my scope and take the ¡°good¡±
GFT mobile, and when I return be able to remount things and have it be rather
close to still polar aligned (as I wouldn¡¯t adjust the mount)..
??? I
would have been quite OK w/ a Losmandy tripod.. Maybe that¡¯s because I
never have seen one in person and think it has a smaller foot print and is
shorter when assembled, I don¡¯t know.. The Meade GFT is built like a tank
and I have always believe it would support a bus..
??? A
Side Note.. I *really* like the link before.. A Tak refractor on a Titan.. Reminds
me of when Michael laughed at me when I was worried that the G11 wouldn¡¯t
handle my SVR130 Raptor.. ¡°It wouldn¡¯t even know it¡¯s there¡±
and how he said it would handle my deforked 12¡± Meade.. :-))
??? Now
to go drive an hour to meet ¨C and THANK ¨C my landlord who turned
down the offer from the guy who *really* wanted to buy this place and ruin
everything.. YEAH ME! :-))..
??? OH!
If someone has a Losmandy mount and wishes they had a Meade instead, I would be
the guy most convincible of a trade.. At a minimum you¡¯d have to live in
the SF Bay Area.. California
maybe.. I am NOT shipping a Giant Field Tripod..
?Derek
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020
9:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io]
Initial Setup of the Mount
?
ah i understand now. that makes more sense
?
Scroll thru this (not mine) that
shows this clearly..
?
?
Derek
?
?
if i'm following
this correctly, your non-losmandy legs have only a center bolt and you've had
to figure out workarounds for getting it to not rotate on top of the tripod?
Boy that sounds
like a great argument for going with losmandy tripod!
?
Well then..
I
did it that way, because no matter how tight I tightened the center bolt (when
I first got the mount), once I added the 38 pound G11 and 30 pounds or so of
equipment, the T handle under the spreader bar would invariably not be as tight
as it was.. At that point I could not apply the wrench to hold the nut anymore,
since the mount ¨C obviously ¨C hides it..
??? To make it
¡°better¡±, I learned that as soon as you think your tripod has the
legs spread and it¡¯s level, and everything is tight, to go around to each
leg and pick it up slightly and set them ack down.. Then retighten everything..
Then load the mount and equipment and it is LIKELY to remain all tight..
??? Then, just in
case it ever came loose again.. I put the three screws in so the MA Adapter
wouldn¡¯t rotate if the center bolt wasn¡¯t snug enough from all the
slewing of the telescope I do..
??? It didn¡¯t
want it to change azimuth and ruin my extensive drift alignment..
?
This is,also, why I asked a while
back about using a compass so that when I set the mount down initially, I make
sure to do it well enough to have adequate range on the Azimuth adjuster..
?
Derek
?
?
Derek,
To me, discussion are flows of thought. As long as the water keeps flowing, why
dam it up?
Never had a Meade myself. But I've been to .
Yep, I am incorrigible. Sorry Dude.
--
--
|
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
ah i understand now. that makes more sense
Scroll
thru this (not mine) that shows this clearly..
?
?
Derek
?
?
if i'm following this correctly, your non-losmandy legs have only a
center bolt and you've had to figure out workarounds for getting it to not
rotate on top of the tripod?
Boy that sounds like a great argument for going with losmandy tripod!
?
Well then..
I
did it that way, because no matter how tight I tightened the center bolt (when
I first got the mount), once I added the 38 pound G11 and 30 pounds or so of
equipment, the T handle under the spreader bar would invariably not be as tight
as it was.. At that point I could not apply the wrench to hold the nut anymore,
since the mount ¨C obviously ¨C hides it..
??? To make it
¡°better¡±, I learned that as soon as you think your tripod has the legs spread
and it¡¯s level, and everything is tight, to go around to each leg and pick it
up slightly and set them ack down.. Then retighten everything.. Then load the
mount and equipment and it is LIKELY to remain all tight..
??? Then, just in
case it ever came loose again.. I put the three screws in so the MA Adapter
wouldn¡¯t rotate if the center bolt wasn¡¯t snug enough from all the slewing of
the telescope I do..
??? It didn¡¯t want it
to change azimuth and ruin my extensive drift alignment..
?
This is,also, why I asked a while
back about using a compass so that when I set the mount down initially, I make
sure to do it well enough to have adequate range on the Azimuth adjuster..
?
Derek
?
?
Derek,
To me, discussion are flows of thought. As long as the water keeps flowing, why
dam it up?
Never had a Meade myself. But I've been to .
Yep, I am incorrigible. Sorry Dude.
--
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
Scroll
thru this (not mine) that shows this clearly..
?
?
Derek
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020
8:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io]
Initial Setup of the Mount
?
if i'm following this correctly, your non-losmandy legs have only a
center bolt and you've had to figure out workarounds for getting it to not
rotate on top of the tripod?
Boy that sounds like a great argument for going with losmandy tripod!
?
Well then..
I
did it that way, because no matter how tight I tightened the center bolt (when
I first got the mount), once I added the 38 pound G11 and 30 pounds or so of
equipment, the T handle under the spreader bar would invariably not be as tight
as it was.. At that point I could not apply the wrench to hold the nut anymore,
since the mount ¨C obviously ¨C hides it..
??? To make it
¡°better¡±, I learned that as soon as you think your tripod has the legs spread
and it¡¯s level, and everything is tight, to go around to each leg and pick it
up slightly and set them ack down.. Then retighten everything.. Then load the
mount and equipment and it is LIKELY to remain all tight..
??? Then, just in
case it ever came loose again.. I put the three screws in so the MA Adapter
wouldn¡¯t rotate if the center bolt wasn¡¯t snug enough from all the slewing of
the telescope I do..
??? It didn¡¯t want it
to change azimuth and ruin my extensive drift alignment..
?
This is,also, why I asked a while
back about using a compass so that when I set the mount down initially, I make
sure to do it well enough to have adequate range on the Azimuth adjuster..
?
Derek
?
?
Derek,
To me, discussion are flows of thought. As long as the water keeps flowing, why
dam it up?
Never had a Meade myself. But I've been to .
Yep, I am incorrigible. Sorry Dude.
--
|
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
You¡¯re
not following correctly.. G11 on an MA Adapter that is mounted to a Meade Giant
Field Tripod.. There is a ¡°spreader¡± and up thru the center goes a
big T Handle Bolt thru the MA Adapter to a big nut.. Add in three screws around
the (inside) outer edge of the MA Adapter and the MA Adapter can no longer
rotate on top of the tripod..
?
?
Derek
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020
8:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io]
Initial Setup of the Mount
?
if i'm following this correctly, your non-losmandy legs have only a
center bolt and you've had to figure out workarounds for getting it to not
rotate on top of the tripod?
Boy that sounds like a great argument for going with losmandy tripod!
?
Well then..
I
did it that way, because no matter how tight I tightened the center bolt (when
I first got the mount), once I added the 38 pound G11 and 30 pounds or so of
equipment, the T handle under the spreader bar would invariably not be as tight
as it was.. At that point I could not apply the wrench to hold the nut anymore,
since the mount ¨C obviously ¨C hides it..
??? To make it
¡°better¡±, I learned that as soon as you think your tripod has the
legs spread and it¡¯s level, and everything is tight, to go around to each
leg and pick it up slightly and set them ack down.. Then retighten everything..
Then load the mount and equipment and it is LIKELY to remain all tight..
??? Then, just in
case it ever came loose again.. I put the three screws in so the MA Adapter
wouldn¡¯t rotate if the center bolt wasn¡¯t snug enough from all the
slewing of the telescope I do..
??? It didn¡¯t
want it to change azimuth and ruin my extensive drift alignment..
?
This is,also, why I asked a while
back about using a compass so that when I set the mount down initially, I make
sure to do it well enough to have adequate range on the Azimuth adjuster..
?
Derek
?
?
Derek,
To me, discussion are flows of thought. As long as the water keeps flowing, why
dam it up?
Never had a Meade myself. But I've been to .
Yep, I am incorrigible. Sorry Dude.
--
|
Rubbermaid "Observashed" for my G11
The other thread about how we each initially setup our portable setups was interesting to me.? I was preparing a response when I realized that I put in a permanent pier, and haven't used my field tripod in two years.? So, I'm not qualified to comment.
I build a permanent pier and Rubbermaid "observashed" at Buford Mountain Conservation Area in Missouri USA.? The initial construction is shown here:
Several updates are posted here:
No one has ever accused me of having construction skills, so viewer beware.
-Bill N.
|
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
if i'm following this correctly, your non-losmandy legs have only a center bolt and you've had to figure out workarounds for getting it to not rotate on top of the tripod?
Boy that sounds like a great argument for going with losmandy tripod!
Well
then..
I did it that way, because no matter how tight I
tightened the center bolt (when I first got the mount), once I added the 38
pound G11 and 30 pounds or so of equipment, the T handle under the spreader bar
would invariably not be as tight as it was.. At that point I could not apply
the wrench to hold the nut anymore, since the mount ¨C obviously ¨C
hides it..
??? To
make it ¡°better¡±, I learned that as soon as you think your tripod
has the legs spread and it¡¯s level, and everything is tight, to go around
to each leg and pick it up slightly and set them ack down.. Then retighten
everything.. Then load the mount and equipment and it is LIKELY to remain all
tight..
??? Then,
just in case it ever came loose again.. I put the three screws in so the MA
Adapter wouldn¡¯t rotate if the center bolt wasn¡¯t snug enough from
all the slewing of the telescope I do..
??? It
didn¡¯t want it to change azimuth and ruin my extensive drift alignment..
?
This
is,also, why I asked a while back about using a compass so that when I set the
mount down initially, I make sure to do it well enough to have adequate range
on the Azimuth adjuster..
?
Derek
?
?
Derek,
To me, discussion are flows of thought. As long as the water keeps flowing, why
dam it up?
Never had a Meade myself. But I've been to .
Yep, I am incorrigible. Sorry Dude.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Re: 12" extension and RA/Dec Cable length
Good conversation. The stock motor cables are not very long... the RA cable is the shortest.
These can become snagged on various knobs or other wires as you slew around so one must be careful.? And I think the Gemini must be mounted just under the Mount head...not at a lower level like 12 inches below the head.? Then the RA cable would be too short.?
However, this is correctable if much longer motor cables were available.? Is anyone interested in longer cables?? If there is an interest, I'll look into getting them or making them.? I think ~24 inch cables would cover all cases.? You just have to have the labels "RA" and "DEC" clearly marked.??
Other mount versions do the cabling internally or have the motors inside the mount head ...I'm thinking Synta EQ6 or old Meade LXD55.
All the best, Michael
Here's the idea: Add a 12" extension on the stock head socket, mount the Gemini II on the stock mounting.
Will the supplied cables be long enough in such a configuration? (Given tracking, guiding, and remote running.)
Or will the 12" need to be bolted to the tripod, and the mount socket mounted higher so the stock cables will reach and work?
I haven't seen anything about longer cables.
|
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
Well
then..
I did it that way, because no matter how tight I
tightened the center bolt (when I first got the mount), once I added the 38
pound G11 and 30 pounds or so of equipment, the T handle under the spreader bar
would invariably not be as tight as it was.. At that point I could not apply
the wrench to hold the nut anymore, since the mount ¨C obviously ¨C
hides it..
??? To
make it ¡°better¡±, I learned that as soon as you think your tripod
has the legs spread and it¡¯s level, and everything is tight, to go around
to each leg and pick it up slightly and set them ack down.. Then retighten
everything.. Then load the mount and equipment and it is LIKELY to remain all
tight..
??? Then,
just in case it ever came loose again.. I put the three screws in so the MA
Adapter wouldn¡¯t rotate if the center bolt wasn¡¯t snug enough from
all the slewing of the telescope I do..
??? It
didn¡¯t want it to change azimuth and ruin my extensive drift alignment..
?
This
is,also, why I asked a while back about using a compass so that when I set the
mount down initially, I make sure to do it well enough to have adequate range
on the Azimuth adjuster..
?
Derek
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020
3:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io]
Initial Setup of the Mount
?
Derek,
To me, discussion are flows of thought. As long as the water keeps flowing, why
dam it up?
Never had a Meade myself. But I've been to .
Yep, I am incorrigible. Sorry Dude.
|
Re: Astro-Imaging, the incurable disease !
Let¡¯s see if I can shed some light on the networking¡
I wish I could respond simply by say ¡°oh, just do _____ and it will work¡±. ?But the answer isn¡¯t so easy. ?I¡¯m going to try to reduce the amount of learning necessary to make this work, but there will still be a bit of work involved.
When you set up the network with the Gemini II (telescope mount) you have a choice to connect EVERYTHING to your router (or switch, etc.) ¡ OR ¡ you can connect the Gemini directly to your PC. ?
Here¡¯s a diagram I drew up:
It is MUCH easier?¡ to connect the Gemini to your router as depicted in example?¡®A¡¯. ?
Unless you have a good understanding of networking, I STRONGLY encourage this option. ?I would only recommend option B if there is a reason you can¡¯t make option A work (e.g. no way to run another network cable, etc.) ?But even then there are often work-arounds that are much easier (like putting a small switch in the observatory to connect back to the router and then you can cascade both the PC and the Gemini off that switch).
Assuming you choose option?¡®A¡¯ you will: - Connect your computer to your network router (via wired or wirless connection¡ it does not matter)
- Connect your Gemini II to your network router (typically via wired because Gemini doesn¡¯t have built-in WiFi)
- On your Gemini II, navigate to the network menu and enable DHCP (there¡¯s a check box to enable it)
- Each time you turn on the Gemini, it will automatically request an IP address from your router. ?The network menu will let you view which IP address was assigned.
- Most of time this IP address wont change (unless you reboot your router). ?But if you want to make sure it doesn¡¯t change, use your router¡¯s admin console to create a ¡°DHCP Reservation¡± for your Gemini. ?
This setup is fairly easy.
If you *can* do option A, do it. ?If you DO use option A, you can stop reading now and enjoy the rest of your evening.
But if you *really* want to do option B?¡ things get a little harder.
Option B gets a tricky because it requires a new subnet. ?You wont be able to use DHCP because the Gemini wont be able to communicate with the router (and the IP address assignment wouldn¡¯t be valid anyway). ?This means you will need to use STATIC IP address assignments and that means you will need to know the rules for how to know what static IP addresses will work.
Again, I can¡¯t just say?¡°use this as your new subnet value¡± because there are too many variations on home routers. ?If all routers used the same primary subnet, then it would be easy.
We have to delve into the topic of how subnets work in IP networking. ?This explanation might be long.
If you want a thorough understanding, pick up this book:
TCP/IP Illustrated, Volume 1: The Protocols (2nd Edition) (Addison-Wesley Professional Computing Series)
Learn more:
The Internet allows computers around the world to interconnect. ?Each computer or device gets an IP address and, for purposes of simplifying things, I¡¯ll just stick to IPv4 addresses.
If two devices use the same IP address it creates a conflict, so this has to be avoided. ?
On the public Internet, there is an organization that hands out IP address ranges to make sure no two publicly accessible computers have conflicting addresses. ?For example, an IP address range would have been issued to your Internet service provider (ISP). ?But these are?¡°public¡± IP addresses. ?In theory, any?¡°public¡± addresses is reachable by anyone (there are nuances to this but again¡ I¡¯ll leave those out for purposes of simplifying things.)
But this hypothetically creates a problem for ordinary end-users like us. ?How do WE know what IP addresses we can safely use to avoid these conflicts? ?
To solve this, there¡¯s an Internet standard called RFC-1918. ?
You can learn about it here: ? If you want to read the official RFC as maintained by the IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force is the body that maintains these standards) you can read it here: ?
But basically RFC-1918 reserves some IP addresses ranges for private use (such as folks like us). ?
Based on RFC-1918, you can use the IP ranges defined by the spec and be confident that no public IP address on the Internet is using the same IP address. ?Sure¡ there are other private nets using those same networks, but those are?¡®private¡¯ networks that you can¡¯t reach?¡ª they don¡¯t affect you. ?Your?¡®router¡¯ gets a single public IP address assigned by your ISP, but it uses?¡®private¡¯ IP addresses for everything else (following the rules of RFC-1918).
Subnetting:
Your IP address appears to be four numbers seperated by decimal points. ?E.g. 192.168.0.10 is an example. ?Each number is in the range of 0 to 255. ? But part of this address is the?¡°network¡± number and part of the address is the?¡°host¡± number. ?Which bits represent the network vs. the host can vary and this is controlled by something called a?¡°network mask¡± (I did warn you that some knowledge of networks is necessary to make option?¡®B¡¯ work.)?
MOST of the time, the network mask for home users is 255.255.255.0 (it¡¯s unusual for it to be anything else, but I *have* seen other masks). ?
The mask makes more sense if you write it in binary instead of decimal notation.
If binary, the digit in each space is either a 0 or a 1. ?But it turns out the value 255 is written in binary as a series of eight 1¡¯s. ?Since it¡¯s hard to read so many 1¡¯s in a row and not lose position, it¡¯s common to put a gap after the 4th digit to make it easier on the eyes. ?
So 255 is written as 11111111 but to be easy on the eyes it might be written as "1111 1111¡± because you can see the groupings of four digits more easily.
So back to the network mask¡
The mask of 255.255.255.0 is written in binary as 1111 1111.1111 1111.1111 1111.0000 0000
Basically it¡¯s a series of 1¡¯s (and only 1¡¯s) followed by a series of 0¡¯s (and only 0¡¯s)?¡ we don¡¯t intermingle 0¡¯s in our 1¡¯s and vice versa.
Every digit that is a?¡°1¡± is part of the?¡°network¡± number. ?Every digit that is a?¡°0¡± is part of the host number (in the mask?¡ remember this is a?¡°mask¡± and not the actual IP address).
So what this REALLY says is that for a sample address like ¡°192.168.1.10¡± that the?¡°192.168.1¡± part is the network number and the?¡°.10¡± at the end is the computer number.
Or another way to read this is?¡°find computer with address?¡¯10¡¯ on the subnet number?¡®192.168.0¡¯¡±.
You might not be using a 192.168.0.x network with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. ?You *might* be using a 10.x.x.x network with a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0. ?Or you might be using a 192.168.1.x subnet with a subnet mask of 255.255.254.0?¡ or 255.255.255.192. ? This is why it gets ugly. ?This is why I can¡¯t just tell you a safe value to use. ?If I knew both your primary network address *and* your subnet mask, I could tell you what a safe value would be for the 2nd network and for the Gemini.
You CANNOT use just any IP address you want for the Gemini. ?It needs to be an address that follows the RFC-1918 rules *and* it must be a DIFFERENT subnet number than the one being used by your router (and your computer¡¯s primary network).
I¡¯ll try to simplify a little by making the (possibly invalid) *assumption* that you are using a 192.168.0 subnet with a mask of 255.255.255.0 (and if you use ANY other values then you cannot just take my advice?¡ it wont work.)
Suppose the PC has an IP address 192.168.0.10 and the subnet mask is 255.255.255.0 (If you open a?¡®cmd¡¯ window on the PC and type?¡°ipconfig¡± you¡¯ll see this information displayed).
Based on this, we could use a new subnet number such as?¡°192.168.1¡± ?¡ actually that third digit can be anything we want in the range of 0 to 255?¡ as long as it IS NOT the same as the primary network. ?So it CANNOT be a?¡®0¡¯ or the setup wont work.
You would configure the network on your computer to give your second network card a?¡¯ static' IP address (DHCP wont work here) and use 192.168.1.2 as the IP address. ?Set the network mask (subnet mask) to 255.255.255.0. ?A?¡¯static¡¯ IP address means you manually entered the value and it will never change (unless you manually change it).
Meanwhile, over on the Gemini II, make sure you ALSO set the subnet mask to match 255.255.255.0 (it probably already is) and then set the IP address to 192.168.1.3. ?The rules here are that the?¡°network¡± number MUST be the SAME network number used by your PC on this new subnet. ?Every device on this subnet (even though we only plan to have two devices¡ your computer and your Gemini) must use the SAME subnet number. ?Also they must use DIFFERENT host numbers. ?If the PC is using the?¡°.2¡± address, then the Gemini can (almost) use any IP address you want in the range of 0-255?¡ as long as it isn¡¯t the same address as the PC (don¡¯t use the .2). ?BUT¡ keep reading.
There is a reason I said you can?¡°almost¡± use any address. ?By convention there are a few addresses that are?¡°special¡±. ?Normally the?¡°.1¡± address is reserved for the default router on the subnet?¡ there¡¯s no rule that it has to use .1?¡ but most of the time that¡¯s what people use (and what most hardware vendors who make routers will use by default). ?I said?¡°default¡± router because subnets can have more than one router. ?Your new subnet technically doesn¡¯t even have a router. ?So avoid the?¡°.1¡± address.
Also¡ you should avoid using both the?¡°.0¡± and the?¡°.255¡± addresses. ?This varies by network but MOST of the time the?¡°.255¡± address is also reserved as the?¡°broadcast¡± address. ?I wont go into what a broadcast address is?¡ but suffice it to say that it is already reserved for a special reason and therefore you shouldn¡¯t use it. ?The reason I said that?¡°MOST of the time¡± it¡¯s the .255 address used for broadcast¡ is because SOME of the time it¡¯s the .0 address that is reserved for broadcast. ?Without inspecting the network, it isn¡¯t safe to assume it¡¯s .255 or .0?¡ so avoid both of those (because it could be using either of them.)
Is that all?
That¡¯s mostly all¡ there is something called a routing table. ?All computers have one. ?For THIS particular purpose you wont need to worry about (but there are cases where a person would need to modify the routing table?¡ but those are more complicated networks.)
All this subnetting and IP address knowledge is only required for opiton?¡®B¡¯. ?If you do option?¡®A¡¯ you don¡¯t need to know any of this. ?
This is why I discourage this solution for those who are not network savvy. ?
Clear Skies, Tim
On Jan 30, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Gary C. via Groups.Io < glcrealty@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks folks for comments.? I've abandoned crossover initial connection.? Trying to setup with Ethernet connection.? Gemini II site is some helpful, maybe... Have Win 10, AT&T internet, combo modem/router.? Plugged Ethernet cable to mount, thinking/praying for auto connection.? Of course that did not happen.? No Plug and Play---- Ha... My IP address in hand controller is standard ( 192.168.0.111 ),? Checked my IP address in modem/router and of course different.? Went thru multiple scenarios to assign new IP address per You Tube Video showing step by step, etc., etc.? Net Bios is on.? Changed block values in Browser.? NO JOY. Getting Crossover Cable today from Amazon.? Maybe I can get that to work, and at least update Firmware.? Have Firmware Program downloaded, but of course cannot update as Gemini II is not communicating thru Ethernet. Only spent 7 hours on it yesterday...ha.? No big deal, I'm old and retired. Gary ? Thanks? Gary
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Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
You are are right that is how the tripod arrived. I moved the mount base around to the side putting a leg pointing north. I have not had any issues with the RA plenty of room for both..?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Date: 1/31/20 1:56 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount
>>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Losmandy tripods machined so any leg can be your North leg? (120¡ã slots for assembly)
?
The tripod part is, but the part that holds the mount is not ¨C the holders for gemini is in back
?
Technically I suppose you could do any leg forward but the gemini might get in the way of RA movements if it¡¯s on the side
?
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of sonnyedmonds@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 7:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount
?
[Edited Message Follows]
I use a small magnetic compass,or the GPS on my cell phone.
I set my tripod up so a single leg points North. (It came with the single leg pointing South. Just moved the pin 180¡ã.)
But remember, Polar North for your tripod is a very rough and general setting.
When you can locate Polaris, there's your aim point.
Just practice. Eventually, you'll be able to aim yourself North, look up and there it is.
Edit In: Something else I've done is to use a long "yardstick" from the shop (aluminum, 48") and set it on the ground. Then compare it to my GPS on my smarter-than-me-phone.
Then adjusted it so it is in line with North/South, then set my tripod using that as a reference, and the opposing legs evenly spaced from the edge of the Yardstick.
Gets close enough to Azimuth into place for me.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Losmandy tripods machined so any leg can be your North leg? (120¡ã slots for assembly)
One of my biggest concerns is finding Polaris. At some sites there are just too many darned stars.
For that I use the Big Dipper's Bucket.? 8^)
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Re: Initial Setup of the Mount
Derek,
To me, discussion are flows of thought. As long as the water keeps flowing, why dam it up?
Never had a Meade myself. But I've been to .
Yep, I am incorrigible. Sorry Dude.
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Re: 12" extension and RA/Dec Cable length
Thanks Stu!
I still have the EX12 on my list.
Even if it comes deaf. (No Ears)
Do it ONCE. Do it Right!
I done been taught,
To swear off the others.
I wasted my cash,
On some other trash.
I won't make that mistake again,
Or Please kick my ass.
Losmandy is the direction,
I'm chosen?for correction.
Just that swing I'm trying to avoid, since I'm a remote operator from time to time.
OK, most of the time in the winter. This old fart gets grumpy when he's cold. Hell, I can be grumpy when I'm warm, too.
I did come up with an idea the other day. I took and activated my Baby Dell's Laptop camera.
And I do believe it will give me an eye on my mount when in use remotely.
I ran it a bit. Then I ran it remote. Then Mia (3-ya) and I played while she was on (Youngest Grandchild) What kid doesn't like to see themselves live?
I've tried to teach all the grandkids in reach, She's number 12.
I think I'm goin stir crazy.
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Michael Herman
Gary C.
Timothy Campbell