¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

  1. Losmandy_users
  2. Messages
Expanded Topics Messages Polls
Date
Re: 12" extension and RA/Dec Cable length

 

The 12" extension comes with the 2 "little ears" for mounting the Gemini higher up so there is no problem with the cables being too short...I've got 2 G11's both with the 12" extensions and never had a problem with cables being too short...

Stu


On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:09 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote:
Here's the idea: Add a 12" extension on the stock head socket, mount the Gemini II on the stock mounting.
Will the supplied cables be long enough in such a configuration? (Given tracking, guiding, and remote running.)
Or will the 12" need to be bolted to the tripod, and the mount socket mounted higher so the stock cables will reach and work?

I haven't seen anything about longer cables.

Re: 12" extension and RA/Dec Cable length

Sonny Edmonds
 

Thank You Brian!
I kind of figured, since Scott was taught to add extra Holes by his Dad.
Mostly I was thinking about what you said about the telescope hitting the pier or the Gemini II actually.
Now I see a barely visible a hole for the ears.

But I still wonder if my pea-shooter will find it in the dark some night. Worry-worry, fuss-fuss.
Thanks Brian!
Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

>>> it only adds functionality to PEC for frequencies that can't be corrected by PEC because those frequencies don't repeat in the same phase every worm cycle.


totally agree. no replacement for a good mount-based PEC,?

PEMPro is the only PEC game in town for losmandy mount owners doing astrophotography

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:53 PM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> My memory is not what it used to be but..... You're right about Dec (Dec usually doesn't move anyway) but I
> distinctly remember (memory corrupted?)? they said there have been instances where pec and predictive result in
> worse behavior.? ?So caveat emptor : let the user beware.? So,? if anyone has questions,? I urge them to read up on
> predictive.? ?Users can decide to enable both or only one.

As Brian said PEC and autoguiding work well with most mounts, including Losmandy's.

That said, there are drawbacks to the predictive algorithm. That is it can take multiple worm cycles to get accurately calculated phase/amplitude. At first they tried to make that algorithm work with no knowledge of frequency/periods. I could have told them that was going to take lots of tracking time to calculate. I think they figured out later that it was better to let the user provide frequency hints. :-) Even then phase has to be established and that may take a while.

Also, guider pulses are not always very accurate so it might not be possible to get a good calculation of amplitude. So, IMO it only adds functionality to PEC for frequencies that can't be corrected by PEC because those frequencies don't repeat in the same phase every worm cycle.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro V3:?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of crocco1250 via Groups.Io
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 6:00 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?
>
> Brian
>
> My memory is not what it used to be but..... You're right about Dec (Dec usually doesn't move anyway) but I
> distinctly remember (memory corrupted?)? they said there have been instances where pec and predictive result in
> worse behavior.? ?So caveat emptor : let the user beware.? So,? if anyone has questions,? I urge them to read up on
> predictive.? ?Users can decide to enable both or only one.
>
> Chuck
>
> ________________________________
>
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Brian Valente <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Chuck that's not quite correct, in fact PHD recommends in most cases the in-mount PEC is complementary to PHD
> guiding
>
> PHD has predictive PEC, which watches the worm period and models periodic error behavior. if you enable mount-
> based PEC, it will simply model less error (usually the harmonics of the primary are what's left)
>
> You may have been thinking of DEC backlash compensation? which you don't want enabled in the mount? it does
> indeed fight with PHD's auto backlash compensation, and PHd's is much better at doing it. regardless, you'd want to
> pick one or the other there not
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 5:44 PM crocco1250 via Groups.Io <crocco1250=[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>? ? ? ?Anthony
>
>? ? ? ?My reading of the phd2 manual says you can use pec but they don't recommend it.? ?Apparently,? phd2 has
> an active corrective function (whose name escapes me at this second)? that is similar to pec.? ?They state plhd2 can
> fight their active predictive algorythm.? Phd2 wants you to run their automated system and claim its superior to peck.
>
>? ? ? ?Chuck
>
> ________________________________
>
>? ? ? ?On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Anthony Q <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>? ? ? ?I was thinking that number in PHD2 would be lower with PEC, assuming other issues being equal, (I think
> mine is mirror shift.)
>
>? ? ? ?I think I am hoping to shortcut measuring PE, with no luck. (Using PHD2 functions.)
>
>? ? ? ?I just need to run PEMPro again, but I'd rather take pictures.
>
>? ? ? ?With the Moon getting bright again, I'll take advantage to run PEMPro...
>
>? ? ? ?Thanks for the info everyone!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> Brian Valente
> portfolio ? <>
>






--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio

Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

My memory is not what it used to be but..... You're right about Dec (Dec usually doesn't move anyway) but I
distinctly remember (memory corrupted?) they said there have been instances where pec and predictive result in
worse behavior. So caveat emptor : let the user beware. So, if anyone has questions, I urge them to read up on
predictive. Users can decide to enable both or only one.
As Brian said PEC and autoguiding work well with most mounts, including Losmandy's.

That said, there are drawbacks to the predictive algorithm. That is it can take multiple worm cycles to get accurately calculated phase/amplitude. At first they tried to make that algorithm work with no knowledge of frequency/periods. I could have told them that was going to take lots of tracking time to calculate. I think they figured out later that it was better to let the user provide frequency hints. :-) Even then phase has to be established and that may take a while.

Also, guider pulses are not always very accurate so it might not be possible to get a good calculation of amplitude. So, IMO it only adds functionality to PEC for frequencies that can't be corrected by PEC because those frequencies don't repeat in the same phase every worm cycle.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro V3:


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of crocco1250 via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 6:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

Brian

My memory is not what it used to be but..... You're right about Dec (Dec usually doesn't move anyway) but I
distinctly remember (memory corrupted?) they said there have been instances where pec and predictive result in
worse behavior. So caveat emptor : let the user beware. So, if anyone has questions, I urge them to read up on
predictive. Users can decide to enable both or only one.

Chuck

________________________________

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Brian Valente <[email protected]> wrote:

Chuck that's not quite correct, in fact PHD recommends in most cases the in-mount PEC is complementary to PHD
guiding

PHD has predictive PEC, which watches the worm period and models periodic error behavior. if you enable mount-
based PEC, it will simply model less error (usually the harmonics of the primary are what's left)

You may have been thinking of DEC backlash compensation? which you don't want enabled in the mount? it does
indeed fight with PHD's auto backlash compensation, and PHd's is much better at doing it. regardless, you'd want to
pick one or the other there not

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 5:44 PM crocco1250 via Groups.Io <crocco1250@...> wrote:


Anthony

My reading of the phd2 manual says you can use pec but they don't recommend it. Apparently, phd2 has
an active corrective function (whose name escapes me at this second) that is similar to pec. They state plhd2 can
fight their active predictive algorythm. Phd2 wants you to run their automated system and claim its superior to peck.

Chuck

________________________________

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Anthony Q <[email protected]> wrote:


I was thinking that number in PHD2 would be lower with PEC, assuming other issues being equal, (I think
mine is mirror shift.)

I think I am hoping to shortcut measuring PE, with no luck. (Using PHD2 functions.)

I just need to run PEMPro again, but I'd rather take pictures.

With the Moon getting bright again, I'll take advantage to run PEMPro...

Thanks for the info everyone!







--

Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <>
Re: 12" extension and RA/Dec Cable length

 

>>> Will the supplied cables be long enough in such a configuration? (Given tracking, guiding, and remote running.)

if I follow you correctly, the answer is yes

the gemini mounting 'ears' move up to the top of the extension, and therefore are the same distance. that's how my losmandy extension works

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:09 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote:
Here's the idea: Add a 12" extension on the stock head socket, mount the Gemini II on the stock mounting.
Will the supplied cables be long enough in such a configuration? (Given tracking, guiding, and remote running.)
Or will the 12" need to be bolted to the tripod, and the mount socket mounted higher so the stock cables will reach and work?

I haven't seen anything about longer cables.



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio

12" extension and RA/Dec Cable length

Sonny Edmonds
 

Here's the idea: Add a 12" extension on the stock head socket, mount the Gemini II on the stock mounting.
Will the supplied cables be long enough in such a configuration? (Given tracking, guiding, and remote running.)
Or will the 12" need to be bolted to the tripod, and the mount socket mounted higher so the stock cables will reach and work?

I haven't seen anything about longer cables.
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Maybe I shouldn¡¯t have, but I have also fastened mine down using three of the holes that (almost) line up on the top of my Meade Giant Field Tripod so that it *wouldn¡¯t* rotate..

?

Might only matter to 1) me and 2) users of a Meade GFT, so I will leave off explaining why for now as I take it this discussion isn¡¯t about that tripod..

?

Derek

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount

?

Yes that diagram. There¡¯s roughly a hex bolt attachment to the tripod

?

So while you can rotate it around, there¡¯s only one position where you can attach the ears for mounting the gemini

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount

?

Hi Brian,
How is the extension attached to the tripod?
I haven't found a view where I could say oh there it is, one 1/2" Bolt.
But the MA universal mount talks about a single 1/2" hole in the center of the base.

Belay that, .
I'll just figure it out when I can get my grimy paws on it.

?

Virus-free.

Re: Initial Setup of the Mount

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Yes that diagram. There¡¯s roughly a hex bolt attachment to the tripod

?

So while you can rotate it around, there¡¯s only one position where you can attach the ears for mounting the gemini

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount

?

Hi Brian,
How is the extension attached to the tripod?
I haven't found a view where I could say oh there it is, one 1/2" Bolt.
But the MA universal mount talks about a single 1/2" hole in the center of the base.

Belay that, .
I'll just figure it out when I can get my grimy paws on it.

Re: Initial Setup of the Mount

Sonny Edmonds
 

Hi Brian,
How is the extension attached to the tripod?
I haven't found a view where I could say oh there it is, one 1/2" Bolt.
But the MA universal mount talks about a single 1/2" hole in the center of the base.

Belay that, .
I'll just figure it out when I can get my grimy paws on it.
Re: Initial Setup of the Mount

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

>>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Losmandy tripods machined so any leg can be your North leg? (120¡ã slots for assembly)

?

The tripod part is, but the part that holds the mount is not ¨C the holders for gemini is in back

?

Technically I suppose you could do any leg forward but the gemini might get in the way of RA movements if it¡¯s on the side

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of sonnyedmonds@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 7:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Initial Setup of the Mount

?

[Edited Message Follows]

I use a small magnetic compass,or the GPS on my cell phone.
I set my tripod up so a single leg points North. (It came with the single leg pointing South. Just moved the pin 180¡ã.)

But remember, Polar North for your tripod is a very rough and general setting.
When you can locate Polaris, there's your aim point.

Just practice. Eventually, you'll be able to aim yourself North, look up and there it is.

Edit In: Something else I've done is to use a long "yardstick" from the shop (aluminum, 48") and set it on the ground. Then compare it to my GPS on my smarter-than-me-phone.
Then adjusted it so it is in line with North/South, then set my tripod using that as a reference, and the opposing legs evenly spaced from the edge of the Yardstick.
Gets close enough to Azimuth into place for me.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Losmandy tripods machined so any leg can be your North leg? (120¡ã slots for assembly)

One of my biggest concerns is finding Polaris. At some sites there are just too many darned stars.
For that I use the Big Dipper's Bucket.? 8^)

Re: Losmandy_users group File section is getting full

Sonny Edmonds
 

Thanks Paul,
Not entirely clear on how this forum format works, but getting the hang of it.
I prefer to post links because I learned in the 1990's how images can really bog things down. (Modam-n dayz)
Re: Counterweights

 

Yeah, the White House has conceded that the steel and aluminum tariffs have hurt domestic businesses. Still no plan to lift them.
Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

anthony i would not rely on PHD for this, as PEMPro can be run and the results more accurately filtered. i'd just do that with and without PEC on and compare


On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 8:01 AM Anthony Q <anthonyquintile4@...> wrote:

To be clear, I have been looking to PHD2 report results, either the Log Viewer or the results from Guiding Assistant, to try to see if PEC is still working as it did upon initial implementation.

Those results have been inconclusive, so I really need to run PEMPro again for some good numbers.

I have run PEC and PPEC, with PHD2 Dec Backlash compensation, all together with great success.

?



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio

Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

To be clear, I have been looking to PHD2 report results, either the Log Viewer or the results from Guiding Assistant, to try to see if PEC is still working as it did upon initial implementation.

Those results have been inconclusive, so I really need to run PEMPro again for some good numbers.

I have run PEC and PPEC, with PHD2 Dec Backlash compensation, all together with great success.

?
Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

>>> there have been instances where pec and predictive result in worse behavior

?

Yes, but to be clear, that was for a different manufacturer. Losmandy mounts can run PEC and PPEC (or any other guide algorithm) without problems.

?

The best thing to do is head over to the PHD forums and ask the authors of PHD directly if they have any questions on this

?

?

?

?

Thanks

?

Brian

?

portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of crocco1250 via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 6:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

?

Brian

My memory is not what it used to be but..... You're right about Dec (Dec usually doesn't move anyway) but I distinctly remember (memory corrupted?)? they said there have been instances where pec and predictive result in worse behavior.?? So caveat emptor : let the user beware.? So,? if anyone has questions,? I urge them to read up on predictive.?? Users can decide to enable both or only one.

Chuck

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Brian Valente <[email protected]> wrote:

Chuck that's not quite correct, in fact PHD recommends in most cases the in-mount PEC is complementary to PHD guiding

?

PHD has predictive PEC, which watches the worm period and models periodic error behavior. if you enable mount-based PEC, it will simply model less error (usually the harmonics of the primary are what's left)

?

You may have been thinking of DEC backlash compensation? which you don't want enabled in the mount? it does indeed fight with PHD's auto backlash compensation, and PHd's is much better at doing it. regardless, you'd want to pick one or the other there not?

?

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 5:44 PM crocco1250 via Groups.Io <crocco1250=[email protected]> wrote:

Anthony

My reading of the phd2 manual says you can use pec but they don't recommend it.?? Apparently,? phd2 has an active corrective function (whose name escapes me at this second)? that is similar to pec.?? They state plhd2 can fight their active predictive algorythm.? Phd2 wants you to run their automated system and claim its superior to peck.

Chuck

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Anthony Q <[email protected]> wrote:

I was thinking that number in PHD2 would be lower with PEC, assuming other issues being equal, (I think mine is mirror shift.)

I think I am hoping to shortcut measuring PE, with no luck. (Using PHD2 functions.)

I just need to run PEMPro again, but I'd rather take pictures.

With the Moon getting bright again, I'll take advantage to run PEMPro...

Thanks for the info everyone!


?

--

Brian?

?

?

?

Brian Valente

portfolio

Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

Brian

My memory is not what it used to be but..... You're right about Dec (Dec usually doesn't move anyway) but I distinctly remember (memory corrupted?)? they said there have been instances where pec and predictive result in worse behavior.?? So caveat emptor : let the user beware.? So,? if anyone has questions,? I urge them to read up on predictive.?? Users can decide to enable both or only one.

Chuck



On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Brian Valente <[email protected]> wrote:

Chuck that's not quite correct, in fact PHD recommends in most cases the in-mount PEC is complementary to PHD guiding

PHD has predictive PEC, which watches the worm period and models periodic error behavior. if you enable mount-based PEC, it will simply model less error (usually the harmonics of the primary are what's left)

You may have been thinking of DEC backlash compensation? which you don't want enabled in the mount? it does indeed fight with PHD's auto backlash compensation, and PHd's is much better at doing it. regardless, you'd want to pick one or the other there not?

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 5:44 PM crocco1250 via Groups.Io <crocco1250=[email protected]> wrote:

Anthony

My reading of the phd2 manual says you can use pec but they don't recommend it.?? Apparently,? phd2 has an active corrective function (whose name escapes me at this second)? that is similar to pec.?? They state plhd2 can fight their active predictive algorythm.? Phd2 wants you to run their automated system and claim its superior to peck.

Chuck

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Anthony Q <[email protected]> wrote:

I was thinking that number in PHD2 would be lower with PEC, assuming other issues being equal, (I think mine is mirror shift.)

I think I am hoping to shortcut measuring PE, with no luck. (Using PHD2 functions.)

I just need to run PEMPro again, but I'd rather take pictures.

With the Moon getting bright again, I'll take advantage to run PEMPro...

Thanks for the info everyone!



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio

Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I should also add there is one mount company (not Losmandy) that has a poor mount-based PEC implementation, and apparently does not work well with guiding. for those poor souls, that have to disable PEC completely if they want to guide

?

?

Thanks

?

Brian

?

portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Valente via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 5:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

?

Chuck that's not quite correct, in fact PHD recommends in most cases the in-mount PEC is complementary to PHD guiding

?

PHD has predictive PEC, which watches the worm period and models periodic error behavior. if you enable mount-based PEC, it will simply model less error (usually the harmonics of the primary are what's left)

?

You may have been thinking of DEC backlash compensation? which you don't want enabled in the mount? it does indeed fight with PHD's auto backlash compensation, and PHd's is much better at doing it. regardless, you'd want to pick one or the other there not?

?

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 5:44 PM crocco1250 via Groups.Io <crocco1250=[email protected]> wrote:

Anthony

My reading of the phd2 manual says you can use pec but they don't recommend it.?? Apparently,? phd2 has an active corrective function (whose name escapes me at this second)? that is similar to pec.?? They state plhd2 can fight their active predictive algorythm.? Phd2 wants you to run their automated system and claim its superior to peck.

Chuck

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Anthony Q <[email protected]> wrote:

I was thinking that number in PHD2 would be lower with PEC, assuming other issues being equal, (I think mine is mirror shift.)

I think I am hoping to shortcut measuring PE, with no luck. (Using PHD2 functions.)

I just need to run PEMPro again, but I'd rather take pictures.

With the Moon getting bright again, I'll take advantage to run PEMPro...

Thanks for the info everyone!


?

--

Brian?

?

?

?

Brian Valente

portfolio

Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

Chuck that's not quite correct, in fact PHD recommends in most cases the in-mount PEC is complementary to PHD guiding

PHD has predictive PEC, which watches the worm period and models periodic error behavior. if you enable mount-based PEC, it will simply model less error (usually the harmonics of the primary are what's left)

You may have been thinking of DEC backlash compensation? which you don't want enabled in the mount? it does indeed fight with PHD's auto backlash compensation, and PHd's is much better at doing it. regardless, you'd want to pick one or the other there not?

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 5:44 PM crocco1250 via Groups.Io <crocco1250=[email protected]> wrote:

Anthony

My reading of the phd2 manual says you can use pec but they don't recommend it.?? Apparently,? phd2 has an active corrective function (whose name escapes me at this second)? that is similar to pec.?? They state plhd2 can fight their active predictive algorythm.? Phd2 wants you to run their automated system and claim its superior to peck.

Chuck

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Anthony Q <[email protected]> wrote:

I was thinking that number in PHD2 would be lower with PEC, assuming other issues being equal, (I think mine is mirror shift.)

I think I am hoping to shortcut measuring PE, with no luck. (Using PHD2 functions.)

I just need to run PEMPro again, but I'd rather take pictures.

With the Moon getting bright again, I'll take advantage to run PEMPro...

Thanks for the info everyone!



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio

Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

Anthony

My reading of the phd2 manual says you can use pec but they don't recommend it.?? Apparently,? phd2 has an active corrective function (whose name escapes me at this second)? that is similar to pec.?? They state plhd2 can fight their active predictive algorythm.? Phd2 wants you to run their automated system and claim its superior to peck.

Chuck



On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Anthony Q <[email protected]> wrote:

I was thinking that number in PHD2 would be lower with PEC, assuming other issues being equal, (I think mine is mirror shift.)

I think I am hoping to shortcut measuring PE, with no luck. (Using PHD2 functions.)

I just need to run PEMPro again, but I'd rather take pictures.

With the Moon getting bright again, I'll take advantage to run PEMPro...

Thanks for the info everyone!
Re: Is PEC maintained regardless of shut down process?

 

I was thinking that number in PHD2 would be lower with PEC, assuming other issues being equal, (I think mine is mirror shift.)

I think I am hoping to shortcut measuring PE, with no luck. (Using PHD2 functions.)

I just need to run PEMPro again, but I'd rather take pictures.

With the Moon getting bright again, I'll take advantage to run PEMPro...

Thanks for the info everyone!
19101 - 19120 of 83644