File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
File : Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
Description : A few rules and comments to prevent anarchy in the files and photos section
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That sounds like good progress ;) ? ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 7:35 PM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: [Losmandy_users] Re: G11G RA Clutch? ? Ok, I've found out that on my mount tightening that clutch screw tight does indeed ruin auto guiding. ?Backed off half a turn has turned my guiding into .5 RA guiding without those huge spikes. So the little flat thrust bearing hates to be squeezed too tight. ?It protests.
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Ok, I've found out that on my mount tightening that clutch screw tight does indeed ruin auto guiding. ?Backed off half a turn has turned my guiding into .5 RA guiding without those huge spikes.
So the little flat thrust bearing hates to be squeezed too tight. ?It protests.
-Rich-
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I feel better now, Brian! 5 arcsec I can believe.??
All the best, Michael?
On Oct 31, 2017 1:56 PM, "'Brian Valente' bvalente@... [Losmandy_users]" < Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
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Eric you are correct, my bad. I thought we were talking G11GT ? I¡¯ll have to revisit my comments ? My G11G does not have the 40 second periodic error, so ignore that (I should also clarify I meant 40 second periodicity, the actual error is something like 2.4arcsecs. wow I¡¯m in rare form today) ? SO on my G11G - My experience of getting the tucked in gearing added to my G11G and getting it back sounds the same as Chip¡¯s - the RA performance was basically identical. I think unguided it¡¯s around +/- 5 arcsec ? Rich, Regarding the RA clutch disk, I could have sworn Losmandy switched to a new better clutch system than the plastic ones, or at least they have it as an upgrade, you might call them and ask. ? ? Sorry again folks ¨C messed up my terminology. I¡¯m not used to this renaming of the old mounts. ? I¡¯ll crawl back in my cave now ;) ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ? ? ? According to the Losmandy website the G11G is just a G11 with goto. The G11GT the the G11 DEC and Titan RA. ? ? Guys ? Just to clarify, are we talking a G11 or a G11G? ? The G11G is the Titan RA with G11 DEC ? The RA portion has nothing to do with the regular G11 RA axis ? I¡¯m confused now, but again, I am here in LA and have both G11 and G11G. I currently have my G11G setup, G11 is semi-retired sitting on the table. ? ? ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente
? ? ?? Hi Rich, Where are you located??I'm sure there is somebody near you that has a G11 that can help if you live near a city or large town. I'm in L.A., Michael Herman is up in bay area. I'm sure people are willing to help near you, they just need to know they are needed. Don't get me wrong, I used to mess with mine all the time but when I got my updated G11G back from Scott I wanted to test it as delivered and to see if the mount's PE had changed. When I tested it the tracking error was virtually identical to my modified and carefully adjusted 2-piece worn block and HP worms before I drove over the G11 over to Scott's shop. I'm a car guy and I love working with all things mechanical, I enjoyed playing with the G11 so much I bought a GM8 to play with. Well sort of anyway, I also needed a lightweight mount for wheelie bar driveway duty and the SkyView-Pro was very scarily overloaded at the time with my P/AT130mm f/6 APO and M10" f/6.3 SCT OTA both optically outstanding scopes that I did not want to risk on a mount rated for a 15 lb payload.?
?
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I am ¨C I forgot that! ? But no, I wasn¡¯t there, sorry ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 4:09 PM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: [Losmandy_users] Re: G11G RA Clutch? ? Hi Brian, I think you're an LAAS member. Were you at Mt Wilson a few weeks ago??
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Hi Brian,
I think you're an LAAS member. Were you at Mt Wilson a few weeks ago??
Chip
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At 21:56 31-10-17, 'Brian Valente' bvalente@... [Losmandy_users] wrote: Rich, Regarding the RA clutch disk, I could have sworn Losmandy switched to a new better clutch system than the plastic ones, or at least they have it as an upgrade, you might call them and ask. Apparently this happened c. 2015. See: David
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Rick,
Another link that seems to speak to your problem:
David
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Eric you are correct, my bad. I thought we were talking G11GT ? I¡¯ll have to revisit my comments ? My G11G does not have the 40 second periodic error, so ignore that (I should also clarify I meant 40 second periodicity, the actual error is something like 2.4arcsecs. wow I¡¯m in rare form today) ? SO on my G11G - My experience of getting the tucked in gearing added to my G11G and getting it back sounds the same as Chip¡¯s - the RA performance was basically identical. I think unguided it¡¯s around +/- 5 arcsec ? Rich, Regarding the RA clutch disk, I could have sworn Losmandy switched to a new better clutch system than the plastic ones, or at least they have it as an upgrade, you might call them and ask. ? ? Sorry again folks ¨C messed up my terminology. I¡¯m not used to this renaming of the old mounts. ? I¡¯ll crawl back in my cave now ;) ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:47 PM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users] Re: G11G RA Clutch? ? According to the Losmandy website the G11G is just a G11 with goto. The G11GT the the G11 DEC and Titan RA. ? ? Guys ? Just to clarify, are we talking a G11 or a G11G? ? The G11G is the Titan RA with G11 DEC ? The RA portion has nothing to do with the regular G11 RA axis ? I¡¯m confused now, but again, I am here in LA and have both G11 and G11G. I currently have my G11G setup, G11 is semi-retired sitting on the table. ? ? ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente
? ? ?? Hi Rich, Where are you located??I'm sure there is somebody near you that has a G11 that can help if you live near a city or large town. I'm in L.A., Michael Herman is up in bay area. I'm sure people are willing to help near you, they just need to know they are needed. Don't get me wrong, I used to mess with mine all the time but when I got my updated G11G back from Scott I wanted to test it as delivered and to see if the mount's PE had changed. When I tested it the tracking error was virtually identical to my modified and carefully adjusted 2-piece worn block and HP worms before I drove over the G11 over to Scott's shop. I'm a car guy and I love working with all things mechanical, I enjoyed playing with the G11 so much I bought a GM8 to play with. Well sort of anyway, I also needed a lightweight mount for wheelie bar driveway duty and the SkyView-Pro was very scarily overloaded at the time with my P/AT130mm f/6 APO and M10" f/6.3 SCT OTA both optically outstanding scopes that I did not want to risk on a mount rated for a 15 lb payload.?
?
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According to the Losmandy website the G11G is just a G11 with goto. The G11GT the the G11 DEC and Titan RA.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Guys ? Just to clarify, are we talking a G11 or a G11G? ? The G11G is the Titan RA with G11 DEC ? The RA portion has nothing to do with the regular G11 RA axis ? I¡¯m confused now, but again, I am here in LA and have both G11 and G11G. I currently have my G11G setup, G11 is semi-retired sitting on the table. ? ? ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente
? ? ?? Hi Rich, Where are you located??I'm sure there is somebody near you that has a G11 that can help if you live near a city or large town. I'm in L.A., Michael Herman is up in bay area. I'm sure people are willing to help near you, they just need to know they are needed. Don't get me wrong, I used to mess with mine all the time but when I got my updated G11G back from Scott I wanted to test it as delivered and to see if the mount's PE had changed. When I tested it the tracking error was virtually identical to my modified and carefully adjusted 2-piece worn block and HP worms before I drove over the G11 over to Scott's shop. I'm a car guy and I love working with all things mechanical, I enjoyed playing with the G11 so much I bought a GM8 to play with. Well sort of anyway, I also needed a lightweight mount for wheelie bar driveway duty and the SkyView-Pro was very scarily overloaded at the time with my P/AT130mm f/6 APO and M10" f/6.3 SCT OTA both optically outstanding scopes that I did not want to risk on a mount rated for a 15 lb payload.?
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Guys ? Just to clarify, are we talking a G11 or a G11G? ? The G11G is the Titan RA with G11 DEC ? The RA portion has nothing to do with the regular G11 RA axis ? I¡¯m confused now, but again, I am here in LA and have both G11 and G11G. I currently have my G11G setup, G11 is semi-retired sitting on the table. ? ? ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:24 PM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: [Losmandy_users] Re: G11G RA Clutch? ? Hi Rich, Where are you located??I'm sure there is somebody near you that has a G11 that can help if you live near a city or large town. I'm in L.A., Michael Herman is up in bay area. I'm sure people are willing to help near you, they just need to know they are needed. Don't get me wrong, I used to mess with mine all the time but when I got my updated G11G back from Scott I wanted to test it as delivered and to see if the mount's PE had changed. When I tested it the tracking error was virtually identical to my modified and carefully adjusted 2-piece worn block and HP worms before I drove over the G11 over to Scott's shop. I'm a car guy and I love working with all things mechanical, I enjoyed playing with the G11 so much I bought a GM8 to play with. Well sort of anyway, I also needed a lightweight mount for wheelie bar driveway duty and the SkyView-Pro was very scarily overloaded at the time with my P/AT130mm f/6 APO and M10" f/6.3 SCT OTA both optically outstanding scopes that I did not want to risk on a mount rated for a 15 lb payload.?
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Hi Rich,
Where are you located??I'm sure there is somebody near you that has a G11 that can help if you live near a city or large town. I'm in L.A., Michael Herman is up in bay area. I'm sure people are willing to help near you, they just need to know they are needed.
Don't get me wrong, I used to mess with mine all the time but when I got my updated G11G back from Scott I wanted to test it as delivered and to see if the mount's PE had changed. When I tested it the tracking error was virtually identical to my modified and carefully adjusted 2-piece worn block and HP worms before I drove over the G11 over to Scott's shop. I'm a car guy and I love working with all things mechanical, I enjoyed playing with the G11 so much I bought a GM8 to play with. Well sort of anyway, I also needed a lightweight mount for wheelie bar driveway duty and the SkyView-Pro was very scarily overloaded at the time with my P/AT130mm f/6 APO and M10" f/6.3 SCT OTA both optically outstanding scopes that I did not want to risk on a mount rated for a 15 lb payload.?
Chip?
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Rich, There are surely folks here who have more experience of adjusting the G-11 than I have, but mine is a current model and for what my opinion is worth... I have noticed that if I tighten up my RA clutch all the way it puts a substantial drag on the worm gear. I found this out by pulling off the aluminum spur gear at the end of the worm gear and turning the worm using my finger. At full tension on the clutch it's pretty heavy to turn the worm. I am not sure why you would want to tighten up either clutch all the way. Just do it until the OTA doesnt slip. (Please dont get irritated at this remark, but I presume that you have balanced in RA and DEC, so there is no reason why there shoiuld be a lot of torque on the clutches.) Now, if I back off the clutch screw by a half turn the worm frees up BUT it just barely holds the RA axis. If I read this correctly, it means that the there are not many revs of the clutch knob between just beginning to bite and "seizing up". I have read that this may be due to grease on the clutch plate, but since yours is a new mount, how would it have got there? I fitted the expensive fancy knobs, to reduce the effort and effect on my hands: These links may be of interest: Good luck in sorting this out, hopefully without having to send it back to Scott. Best, David
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Michael I¡¯m in LA happy to show you what I have ? The 40 arsec is manageable, though I¡¯d prefer to PE correct it out. ? In my last guiding 2 hour guiding session I was around 1 arsec even with that PE, so it¡¯s not a trouble. I also did bunch of widefield (407mm Tak Sky() unguided exposures at 5 and 10 minutes and didn¡¯t have any issues there either. ? The suggestions you are referring to seem to relate more to the G11 than the G11G. ? The G11G RA is basically a Titan RA so you don¡¯t have any G11 components in there. The DEC is completely from the G11 ? ? I¡¯m not saying these mounts are perfect, but I think the answers are more in the software, corrections, and settings for us to get it fine-tuned. That¡¯s where I¡¯m spending my time ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:03 PM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users] Re: G11G RA Clutch? ? Hmmm... not good reports.? That PE of 40 arcsec is a red flag.?? I think there were some new "features" added to the new mounts... one of them is some kind of spring that releases the clutch mechanism. I think Hamza Touhami mentioned that and has a YouTube video about his G11.? Maybe I have misinterpreted what Hamza told me.?? But the older mounts like my CG11 do not have any kind of spring in there to push the clutch disks apart...it is just gravity and the clutch knob at the back. I do have a better clutch material that clutches more firmly, and requires a very easy knob tightness to really hold each axis firmly.? That saves in case of a slight bump to the scope, and also makes it require far less knob torque to hold the axis position.?? But a 40 arcsec PE?? That is way out of range of these G11 mounts... should be down about 5 arcsec and I have mine down to 1arcsec RMS.? Beware too of any side-to-side worm movement along the worm axis, as that worm movement away from the motor direction loosens the Oldham coupler parts between the gearbox and the worm itself. If that gets loose, then nothing will work right.? The worm blocks either need to be pressed in toward the center of the worm threads, ( or I added a Belleville washer to press the rear bearing inward) fixing the problem.? ?? I don't know the cause of the problems but these reports of high PE etc are unexpected.? I wonder if one of you nice folks lives near the San Jose CA area (or LA area?) so I might visit! Hope you figure out the puzzle soon... ? On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 12:40 PM, bvalente@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote: ? I second not messing with the hardware until you've exhausted other options.? There is a thread in the PHD2 groups from Tucker that is experiencing the same type of issue with the erratic 5-7" spikes, and he too was messing with the hardware. My G11G has a 40sec periodic error that I'm hoping to address with an upcoming version of pempro that enables 2 worm cycle corrections, but I don't have those erratic spikes My clutch works fine, i avoid cranking it hard, but i do try to keep it pretty tight. I have a 40lb ish imaging train based right now on the Skywatcher 120ED
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
Hi David,
Personally I don't use any additional lubrication, i don't think i would want to either
I prefer my alt/az adjustments more sticky than not
One thing I do recommend is not loosening them too much when making your adjustments. I keep them pretty close to final tightening to prevent small changes in my polar alignment when I do the last tightening
hth
Brian
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
David,
One thing I found helped:? when you unbolt the AZ bolts to adjust the polar alignment, the vertical axis can become slightly wobbly. I added Belleville washers between flat washers (3/8 inch ID size) and that provides a nice adjustable pressure on the AZ bolts to keep the vertical axis firm while polar adjusting.? You might try that.? I have extra of those Belleville and flat washers if you need some...and also some slightly longer 3/8 bolts with T knobs to fit.? Let me know if interested...
- Michael
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM, robert@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
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If anything I'd say use a speck of some kind of 'anti-seize' compound. Most of the screws are steel on aluminum, and that can gaul. Most, if not all of my knobs, have a black plastic washer on them that keeps them from getting too tight and becoming hard to unscrew.
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Hmmm... not good reports.? That PE of 40 arcsec is a red flag.??
I think there were some new "features" added to the new mounts... one of them is some kind of spring that releases the clutch mechanism.
I think Hamza Touhami mentioned that and has a YouTube video about his G11.? Maybe I have misinterpreted what Hamza told me.?? But the older mounts like my CG11 do not have any kind of spring in there to push the clutch disks apart...it is just gravity and the clutch knob at the back.
I do have a better clutch material that clutches more firmly, and requires a very easy knob tightness to really hold each axis firmly.? That saves in case of a slight bump to the scope, and also makes it require far less knob torque to hold the axis position.?? But a 40 arcsec PE?? That is way out of range of these G11 mounts... should be down about 5 arcsec and I have mine down to 1arcsec RMS.?
Beware too of any side-to-side worm movement along the worm axis, as that worm movement away from the motor direction loosens the Oldham coupler parts between the gearbox and the worm itself. If that gets loose, then nothing will work right.? The worm blocks either need to be pressed in toward the center of the worm threads, ( or I added a Belleville washer to press the rear bearing inward) fixing the problem.? ??
I don't know the cause of the problems but these reports of high PE etc are unexpected.? I wonder if one of you nice folks lives near the San Jose CA area (or LA area?) so I might visit!
Hope you figure out the puzzle soon... Michael
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 12:40 PM, bvalente@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
?
I second not messing with the hardware until you've exhausted other options.?
There is a thread in the PHD2 groups from Tucker that is experiencing the same type of issue with the erratic 5-7" spikes, and he too was messing with the hardware.
My G11G has a 40sec periodic error that I'm hoping to address with an upcoming version of pempro that enables 2 worm cycle corrections, but I don't have those erratic spikes
My clutch works fine, i avoid cranking it hard, but i do try to keep it pretty tight. I have a 40lb ish imaging train based right now on the Skywatcher 120ED
Brian
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I adjust the worm at the point that I usually run the clutch tightness. Tightening the clutch should technically not affect worm tension unless there is any give in the clutch pad material which is unlikely, or there is additional material like grease there.
Tom
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On 10/31/2017 1:30 PM, sornborger@... [Losmandy_users] wrote: New G11G owner here.
I have noticed that if I tighten up my RA clutch all the way it puts a substantial drag on the worm gear. ?I found this out by pulling off the aluminum spur gear at the end of the worm gear and turning the worm using my finger. ?At full tension on the clutch it's pretty heavy to turn the worm.
Now, if I back off the clutch screw by a half turn the worm frees up BUT it just barely holds the RA axis.
I have been tightening it down all the way but have been fighting unruly RA when auto guiding. ?I'm thinking this might be the problem. ?Too much pressure on the needle bearing at the end of the RA shaft.
So what do you guys do? ?Back it off and hope nothing bumps the scope? ?That seems iffy especially when you have to move the counterweight to adjust east/west balance during an imaging session. ?I don't know if I could do it without disrupting my image target.
I have removed the shiny smooth plastic clutch disk and replaced it with some automotive casketing material and that has helped, but not enough.
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
-Rich-
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
If anything I'd say use a speck of some kind of 'anti-seize' compound. Most of the screws are steel on aluminum, and that can gaul. Most, if not all of my knobs, have a black plastic washer on them that keeps them from getting too tight and becoming hard to unscrew.
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I second not messing with the hardware until you've exhausted other options.?
There is a thread in the PHD2 groups from Tucker that is experiencing the same type of issue with the erratic 5-7" spikes, and he too was messing with the hardware.
My G11G has a 40sec periodic error that I'm hoping to address with an upcoming version of pempro that enables 2 worm cycle corrections, but I don't have those erratic spikes
My clutch works fine, i avoid cranking it hard, but i do try to keep it pretty tight. I have a 40lb ish imaging train based right now on the Skywatcher 120ED
Brian
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Michael Herman