?

Agreed about “should.”? ?

?

What is the best method for making sure I have CWD a good as possible?

?

?

Mark,

?

Mark,

?

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi,
sometimes I find myself in a situation where I am unable to get my Polemaster app to work (WIN 10 sometimes decides to randomly freeze the camera image? and the google solutions don't work); I'm happy to just observe on nights when this happens, which is what I understand is when the OP wants to use goto for.? So when that happens, I do a rough alignment with a compasss, and then cold start and start a model (i'm usually impatient to start observing, so usually only align 1-2 objects either side of the meridian).

The consequence is that goto is usually a little off (and while I'm not observing at a 3000mm+ FL, I am at 2160mm and the object is likely to be out of view).?

My solution is a little like plate solving for visual observers.? If I get a poor "goto, I simply do a goto a nearby "bright star", do a sync, and then another goto back to the object; it is then nearly always right "bang on".

FYI, its an adaption of an air navigation technique I learned in my early attempted flying career, to find a small hard to find waypoint, you first navigate to an inital "fix" on an "unmissable" close by pinpoint, and then you can "dead reckon" or more easily follow the map to the required location.? I guess it is alos the basis of? "star hopping" too?

I know it does not solve the OPs problem of accurate gotos but it may help get a reasonable night's observing in with minimal "stuffing around".

Cheers, Phil

On 7 Aug 2022, at 8:41:23 am, Mark de Regt <deregt@...> wrote:

OP here again.

?

I really appreciate all the suggstions!

?

Two things have resonated:

?

1. I only guestimate CWD position with my eye.? If precision of CWD matters, and if there is a simple way to get it perfect, that may be the cause.
2. People keep taking about using plate-solve to work around the poorly-functioning Gemini2 model building.

1. I need a camera to do that; I’m happy to buy a cheap camera for that, but not an expensive one; any suggestions?
2. I own TheSkyX Professional Edition, a very powerful planetarium program.? Would this do that is being suggested, and, if so, how?

?

Thanks again!

?

Mark

My mount “stops short” too.. I just switched pointing devices instead of making the Gotos always perfect.. I would like to figure it out someday, but my Mentor from back in the day taught me his motto of “be smarter than the machine” so I have always found work arounds.. But I *would* be interested in working out why my Gotos are off, so I’ll revisit this in about a year / when the planets go away.. or Maybe Michael will “fix” his and the solution will fix mine too before then..

??? Now back to my corner..

Derek

?

---

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Herman
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2022 6:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Usability Question

?

Paul,

?

Your statement that Gemini is perfect is plausible.

?

It is also plausible that other owners use sky charts too and therefore my observation is valuable.? It is not our duty to become R2D2 and delve into a slight difference in coordinate errors or rounding errors between systems.? We are just trying to center our object with our mount.? Certainly Stellarium and other sky charts have more objects than the Gemini database.??

?

The original poster wanted ideas to try.? I have offered one.

?

On Sat, Aug 6, 2022, 7:16 AM Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:

On Sat, Aug 6, 2022 at 07:57 AM, Michael Herman wrote:

But then I notice: the Scope icon in Stellarium is not exactly on the object.

So I conclude that something in Gemini stops the slewing when it's software thinks the object is "close enough".? But Stellarium shows that final position of the mount is not as dead center as it could be.? I find it has to be manually final adjusted.??

?

One primary reason that Stellarium would show the final position away from the desired target: the coordinate precession isn't set correctly between Gemini and Stellarium. If the object is consistently a few arcminutes away in planetarium software after slewing to a target, that's nearly always the case. Gemini doesn't stop short or overshoot the target -- it will get to the target coordinates within one step precision, which for a G11 is 0.5 arcseconds.

Regards,

? ? -Paul

?

Virus-free.

--

Hi,

?

I am primarily an imager, imaging remotely.

?

But I like to look through a scope from time to time, to renew old acquaintances.

?

I started out my serious astronomy addiction many, many years ago with the original Meade LX200.? I loved it.

?

I especially loved how quick and easy it was to do a simple 2-star alignment, after which goto was dead on.

?

But I got too old to comfortably lug the unwieldy mount/OTA assembly up to the tripod.

?

So, eight years ago, I got a G11 (with Gemini 2), on which I mount a C11 EdgeHD.?

?

But I have never liked either the cumbersome job of doing a multi-star alignment (once it’s polar aligned), or the relatively poor pointing accuracy after that (not even on the eyepiece with frustrating frequency).? So I find that I never, ever go out anymore.

?

Before looking for alternatives, I’m curious if anyone has some wisdom to offer on what I may be missing.

?

To forestall thoughts that it’s all user error, it’s not.? The polar alignment is very easy, quick and accurate with PoleMaster.? And I then do the multi-star alignment using an illuminated-reticle eyepiece.? I am careful with the centering.? And I use many, many stars.? But it makes no difference—the pointing is just not very good.

?

Thanks for any help!

?

Mark de Regt

http://www.de-regt.com/Astronomy

?

As I almost quit Astronomy for this very reason of not being able to locate targets (helped by Glaucoma where if it wasn’t “found” by Goto I couldn’t find it), I know exactly what you need to do to be happy using your Losmandy mount visually.. Question is, do you actually want to hear it as you won’t like it much. Not eager to type it out and have you ignore it..

??? Hint – Your issue is not with a Losmandy Mount.. It is a universal “Finding objects with a small FOV Telescope quickly and easily”.. And my G11 / Gemini II is on a tripod in the yard and hasn’t been moved in years.. My GOTOs “suck” and I match exactly everything you have mentioned.. Point being, I can help you.. Question is, will you “hear” the “This is 100% User Error” message?

??? Derek

?

?

Thanks for the responses!

?

I have changed the battery a couple of times; it makes no difference. The goto just sucks.

Specifically, using a 25mm eyepiece on my scope (a bit over 100x), the object almost never is centered, and, with disconcerting frequency, is not even on the FOV (especially with a higher-power eyepiece).

I am VERY careful only to accept alignment stars that cannot be confused.? I have an excellent finder on the scope, so I typically can coax the correct star to be centered.

?

But I got an expensive goto mount because I don’t want to spend more time looking for things than looking at things. And at my latitude (47.7 north), it’s late in evening when it’s dark enough to even start the process in the summer.? I find little attraction in spending a great deal of time polar aligning (and this on a tripod/mount that never moves, BTW), then getting a model set up, then having to search in the finder for the actual object I’m expecting to be on the eyepiece.

?

Being an inveterate imager, I obviously am familiar with the concept of a plate solve.? And I certainly do a TPoint run with my imaging system from time to time.? But I do not understand how using plate-solving will transform this from a long, tedious, and ultimately unsatisfactory process into one that has me viewing in 15 minutes, with objects always in the eyepiece.

?

Thanks again for any additional hints you can give!

?

Mark de Regt

http://www.de-regt.com/Astronomy

?

?

Hi,

?

I am primarily an imager, imaging remotely.

?

But I like to look through a scope from time to time, to renew old acquaintances.

?

I started out my serious astronomy addiction many, many years ago with the original Meade LX200.? I loved it.

?

I especially loved how quick and easy it was to do a simple 2-star alignment, after which goto was dead on.

?

But I got too old to comfortably lug the unwieldy mount/OTA assembly up to the tripod.

?

So, eight years ago, I got a G11 (with Gemini 2), on which I mount a C11 EdgeHD.?

?

But I have never liked either the cumbersome job of doing a multi-star alignment (once it’s polar aligned), or the relatively poor pointing accuracy after that (not even on the eyepiece with frustrating frequency).? So I find that I never, ever go out anymore.

?

Before looking for alternatives, I’m curious if anyone has some wisdom to offer on what I may be missing.

?

To forestall thoughts that it’s all user error, it’s not.? The polar alignment is very easy, quick and accurate with PoleMaster.? And I then do the multi-star alignment using an illuminated-reticle eyepiece.? I am careful with the centering.? And I use many, many stars.? But it makes no difference—the pointing is just not very good.

?

Thanks for any help!

?

Mark de Regt

On Sat, Aug 6, 2022 at 07:57 AM, Michael Herman wrote:

But then I notice: the Scope icon in Stellarium is not exactly on the object.

So I conclude that something in Gemini stops the slewing when it's software thinks the object is "close enough".? But Stellarium shows that final position of the mount is not as dead center as it could be.? I find it has to be manually final adjusted.??

?

One primary reason that Stellarium would show the final position away from the desired target: the coordinate precession isn't set correctly between Gemini and Stellarium. If the object is consistently a few arcminutes away in planetarium software after slewing to a target, that's nearly always the case. Gemini doesn't stop short or overshoot the target -- it will get to the target coordinates within one step precision, which for a G11 is 0.5 arcseconds.

Regards,

? ? -Paul

?

As I almost quit Astronomy for this very reason of not being able to locate targets (helped by Glaucoma where if it wasn’t “found” by Goto I couldn’t find it), I know exactly what you need to do to be happy using your Losmandy mount visually.. Question is, do you actually want to hear it as you won’t like it much. Not eager to type it out and have you ignore it..

??? Hint – Your issue is not with a Losmandy Mount.. It is a universal “Finding objects with a small FOV Telescope quickly and easily”.. And my G11 / Gemini II is on a tripod in the yard and hasn’t been moved in years.. My GOTOs “suck” and I match exactly everything you have mentioned.. Point being, I can help you.. Question is, will you “hear” the “This is 100% User Error” message?

??? Derek

?

?

Thanks for the responses!

?

I have changed the battery a couple of times; it makes no difference. The goto just sucks.

Specifically, using a 25mm eyepiece on my scope (a bit over 100x), the object almost never is centered, and, with disconcerting frequency, is not even on the FOV (especially with a higher-power eyepiece).

I am VERY careful only to accept alignment stars that cannot be confused.? I have an excellent finder on the scope, so I typically can coax the correct star to be centered.

?

But I got an expensive goto mount because I don’t want to spend more time looking for things than looking at things. And at my latitude (47.7 north), it’s late in evening when it’s dark enough to even start the process in the summer.? I find little attraction in spending a great deal of time polar aligning (and this on a tripod/mount that never moves, BTW), then getting a model set up, then having to search in the finder for the actual object I’m expecting to be on the eyepiece.

?

Being an inveterate imager, I obviously am familiar with the concept of a plate solve.? And I certainly do a TPoint run with my imaging system from time to time.? But I do not understand how using plate-solving will transform this from a long, tedious, and ultimately unsatisfactory process into one that has me viewing in 15 minutes, with objects always in the eyepiece.

?

Thanks again for any additional hints you can give!

?

Mark de Regt

http://www.de-regt.com/Astronomy

?

?

Hi,

?

I am primarily an imager, imaging remotely.

?

But I like to look through a scope from time to time, to renew old acquaintances.

?

I started out my serious astronomy addiction many, many years ago with the original Meade LX200.? I loved it.

?

I especially loved how quick and easy it was to do a simple 2-star alignment, after which goto was dead on.

?

But I got too old to comfortably lug the unwieldy mount/OTA assembly up to the tripod.

?

So, eight years ago, I got a G11 (with Gemini 2), on which I mount a C11 EdgeHD.?

?

But I have never liked either the cumbersome job of doing a multi-star alignment (once it’s polar aligned), or the relatively poor pointing accuracy after that (not even on the eyepiece with frustrating frequency).? So I find that I never, ever go out anymore.

?

Before looking for alternatives, I’m curious if anyone has some wisdom to offer on what I may be missing.

?

To forestall thoughts that it’s all user error, it’s not.? The polar alignment is very easy, quick and accurate with PoleMaster.? And I then do the multi-star alignment using an illuminated-reticle eyepiece.? I am careful with the centering.? And I use many, many stars.? But it makes no difference—the pointing is just not very good.

?

Thanks for any help!

?

Mark de Regt