Michael I¡¯m in LA happy to show you what I have ? The 40 arsec is manageable, though I¡¯d prefer to PE correct it out. ? In my last guiding 2 hour guiding session I was around 1 arsec even with that PE, so it¡¯s not a trouble. I also did bunch of widefield (407mm Tak Sky() unguided exposures at 5 and 10 minutes and didn¡¯t have any issues there either. ? The suggestions you are referring to seem to relate more to the G11 than the G11G. ? The G11G RA is basically a Titan RA so you don¡¯t have any G11 components in there. The DEC is completely from the G11 ? ? I¡¯m not saying these mounts are perfect, but I think the answers are more in the software, corrections, and settings for us to get it fine-tuned. That¡¯s where I¡¯m spending my time ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:03 PM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users] Re: G11G RA Clutch? ? Hmmm... not good reports.? That PE of 40 arcsec is a red flag.?? I think there were some new "features" added to the new mounts... one of them is some kind of spring that releases the clutch mechanism. I think Hamza Touhami mentioned that and has a YouTube video about his G11.? Maybe I have misinterpreted what Hamza told me.?? But the older mounts like my CG11 do not have any kind of spring in there to push the clutch disks apart...it is just gravity and the clutch knob at the back. I do have a better clutch material that clutches more firmly, and requires a very easy knob tightness to really hold each axis firmly.? That saves in case of a slight bump to the scope, and also makes it require far less knob torque to hold the axis position.?? But a 40 arcsec PE?? That is way out of range of these G11 mounts... should be down about 5 arcsec and I have mine down to 1arcsec RMS.? Beware too of any side-to-side worm movement along the worm axis, as that worm movement away from the motor direction loosens the Oldham coupler parts between the gearbox and the worm itself. If that gets loose, then nothing will work right.? The worm blocks either need to be pressed in toward the center of the worm threads, ( or I added a Belleville washer to press the rear bearing inward) fixing the problem.? ?? I don't know the cause of the problems but these reports of high PE etc are unexpected.? I wonder if one of you nice folks lives near the San Jose CA area (or LA area?) so I might visit! Hope you figure out the puzzle soon... ? On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 12:40 PM, bvalente@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote: ? I second not messing with the hardware until you've exhausted other options.? There is a thread in the PHD2 groups from Tucker that is experiencing the same type of issue with the erratic 5-7" spikes, and he too was messing with the hardware. My G11G has a 40sec periodic error that I'm hoping to address with an upcoming version of pempro that enables 2 worm cycle corrections, but I don't have those erratic spikes My clutch works fine, i avoid cranking it hard, but i do try to keep it pretty tight. I have a 40lb ish imaging train based right now on the Skywatcher 120ED
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
Hi David,
Personally I don't use any additional lubrication, i don't think i would want to either
I prefer my alt/az adjustments more sticky than not
One thing I do recommend is not loosening them too much when making your adjustments. I keep them pretty close to final tightening to prevent small changes in my polar alignment when I do the last tightening
hth
Brian
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
David,
One thing I found helped:? when you unbolt the AZ bolts to adjust the polar alignment, the vertical axis can become slightly wobbly. I added Belleville washers between flat washers (3/8 inch ID size) and that provides a nice adjustable pressure on the AZ bolts to keep the vertical axis firm while polar adjusting.? You might try that.? I have extra of those Belleville and flat washers if you need some...and also some slightly longer 3/8 bolts with T knobs to fit.? Let me know if interested...
- Michael
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM, robert@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
?
If anything I'd say use a speck of some kind of 'anti-seize' compound. Most of the screws are steel on aluminum, and that can gaul. Most, if not all of my knobs, have a black plastic washer on them that keeps them from getting too tight and becoming hard to unscrew.
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Hmmm... not good reports.? That PE of 40 arcsec is a red flag.??
I think there were some new "features" added to the new mounts... one of them is some kind of spring that releases the clutch mechanism.
I think Hamza Touhami mentioned that and has a YouTube video about his G11.? Maybe I have misinterpreted what Hamza told me.?? But the older mounts like my CG11 do not have any kind of spring in there to push the clutch disks apart...it is just gravity and the clutch knob at the back.
I do have a better clutch material that clutches more firmly, and requires a very easy knob tightness to really hold each axis firmly.? That saves in case of a slight bump to the scope, and also makes it require far less knob torque to hold the axis position.?? But a 40 arcsec PE?? That is way out of range of these G11 mounts... should be down about 5 arcsec and I have mine down to 1arcsec RMS.?
Beware too of any side-to-side worm movement along the worm axis, as that worm movement away from the motor direction loosens the Oldham coupler parts between the gearbox and the worm itself. If that gets loose, then nothing will work right.? The worm blocks either need to be pressed in toward the center of the worm threads, ( or I added a Belleville washer to press the rear bearing inward) fixing the problem.? ??
I don't know the cause of the problems but these reports of high PE etc are unexpected.? I wonder if one of you nice folks lives near the San Jose CA area (or LA area?) so I might visit!
Hope you figure out the puzzle soon... Michael
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 12:40 PM, bvalente@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
?
I second not messing with the hardware until you've exhausted other options.?
There is a thread in the PHD2 groups from Tucker that is experiencing the same type of issue with the erratic 5-7" spikes, and he too was messing with the hardware.
My G11G has a 40sec periodic error that I'm hoping to address with an upcoming version of pempro that enables 2 worm cycle corrections, but I don't have those erratic spikes
My clutch works fine, i avoid cranking it hard, but i do try to keep it pretty tight. I have a 40lb ish imaging train based right now on the Skywatcher 120ED
Brian
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I adjust the worm at the point that I usually run the clutch tightness. Tightening the clutch should technically not affect worm tension unless there is any give in the clutch pad material which is unlikely, or there is additional material like grease there.
Tom
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On 10/31/2017 1:30 PM, sornborger@... [Losmandy_users] wrote: New G11G owner here.
I have noticed that if I tighten up my RA clutch all the way it puts a substantial drag on the worm gear. ?I found this out by pulling off the aluminum spur gear at the end of the worm gear and turning the worm using my finger. ?At full tension on the clutch it's pretty heavy to turn the worm.
Now, if I back off the clutch screw by a half turn the worm frees up BUT it just barely holds the RA axis.
I have been tightening it down all the way but have been fighting unruly RA when auto guiding. ?I'm thinking this might be the problem. ?Too much pressure on the needle bearing at the end of the RA shaft.
So what do you guys do? ?Back it off and hope nothing bumps the scope? ?That seems iffy especially when you have to move the counterweight to adjust east/west balance during an imaging session. ?I don't know if I could do it without disrupting my image target.
I have removed the shiny smooth plastic clutch disk and replaced it with some automotive casketing material and that has helped, but not enough.
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
-Rich-
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
If anything I'd say use a speck of some kind of 'anti-seize' compound. Most of the screws are steel on aluminum, and that can gaul. Most, if not all of my knobs, have a black plastic washer on them that keeps them from getting too tight and becoming hard to unscrew.
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I second not messing with the hardware until you've exhausted other options.?
There is a thread in the PHD2 groups from Tucker that is experiencing the same type of issue with the erratic 5-7" spikes, and he too was messing with the hardware.
My G11G has a 40sec periodic error that I'm hoping to address with an upcoming version of pempro that enables 2 worm cycle corrections, but I don't have those erratic spikes
My clutch works fine, i avoid cranking it hard, but i do try to keep it pretty tight. I have a 40lb ish imaging train based right now on the Skywatcher 120ED
Brian
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Hi Chip,
This is indeed a new mount and I have been fighting this RA problem since day one. ?I've already called Scott and all he said was he's never heard of this problem before. ?Nuff said on that.
I'm getting these rapid spikes using PHD2 of 7" peak to peak that I can't figure out. ?Between those I get approx. 1.2". ?My DEC is always low in the .4 to .6 range.
Use Polemaster to align and PHD2 drift to fine tune.
As for messing with the mount, everything I've done has helped except for these rapid spikes. ?I'm thinking me cranking on that rear knob might be the issue as it smashes the needle bearing tight.
If I can't fix the darned thing I'll have to ship it to Scott which I'd like to avoid if at all possible. ?I did tell Scott I have 'messed' with it and he was unfazed about it.
-Rich-
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Hi Rich,
Is this a brand new mount? If this is a factory new G11G or a G11 that has been retrofitted by Scott at the Losmandy shop stop messing with it and call Losmandy describe the problem. Your mount is covered by warranty and they will correct any issues as long as they were not self induced.?
My own 15 year old G11 has been fully updated to G11G specs and works perfectly. Locks up tight for the Gemini 2-mini GOTOs and yet will slip easily when running the mount in PUSH-TO mode for visual observation. If your mount is still slipping with the clutches torqued down and you have some of Michael Herman's clutch discs you may have a mechanical problem. I have Michael's discs and they grip like crazy.?
Chip
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New G11G owner here. ?
I have noticed that if I tighten up my RA clutch all the way it puts a substantial drag on the worm gear. ?I found this out by pulling off the aluminum spur gear at the end of the worm gear and turning the worm using my finger. ?At full tension on the clutch it's pretty heavy to turn the worm.
Now, if I back off the clutch screw by a half turn the worm frees up BUT it just barely holds the RA axis.
I have been tightening it down all the way but have been fighting unruly RA when auto guiding. ?I'm thinking this might be the problem. ?Too much pressure on the needle bearing at the end of the RA shaft.
So what do you guys do? ?Back it off and hope nothing bumps the scope? ?That seems iffy especially when you have to move the counterweight to adjust east/west balance during an imaging session. ?I don't know if I could do it without disrupting my image target.
I have removed the shiny smooth plastic clutch disk and replaced it with some automotive casketing material and that has helped, but not enough.
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
-Rich-
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GM-11 general lubrication
Hello! I am the recent owner of a new ES/Losmandy G-11 (with PMC-Eight) and now I have become accustomed to the impressive engineering and manufacture, I have a question. I notice that the adjustment bolts (eg for ALT and for fixing mount to stand) are not lubricated and wonder whether it would be a good idea to lightly lubricate them to make them easier to undo and stop them seizing up. If members do this, what do you use? A light lithium grease comes to mind. If any of you is in central Europe (I live in Austria) and can recommend a brand, I should be grateful. Many thanks and best to all, David Pickett
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Hi!
It took a few more days than planned, due to windy weather, but tonight I thoroughly tested the setup again.
Here are some screenshots of the settings as seen on the HC:
It seems that I failed to take a picture of the longitude setting - it is E13 32 (not sure about the minutes right now though).
Same behavior as before. I could Go To Bright star Albireo, then Vega, Deneb, and synch with these (Additional alignment - Synchronize). Then going to Mizar (NorthWest of me) renders an Interrupted, GoToBright Star Polaris gives Interrupted. Interestingly enough Dubhe worked OK.
Then on the East side: Alpheratz was OK, but Mirfak gives Interrupted. M 31 worked, but M33 gets Interrupted. Aldebaran gives Interrupted but Castor works OK.
So it does not seem like a nothern sector that is Interrupted, at least not consistently.
Then I experienced that M33 got an interrupted, when closing in on the meridian. However, a few minuted later, it worked, being close to the meridian but not yet there.
Anything wrong with my settings? I guess the UTC + 2 is actually wrong, since we switched from summer time this weekend. But CET is corrrect.
I found out that with mount on east side pointing west, but very close to the safety limit, there is no meridian flip option on the HC. Should there not be one, even though it is east poiting west? Trying to go even further east from there renders an interrupt, not a meridian flip either.
Any idea? What should I try tomorrow?
Magnus
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
At the risk of repeating myself, make sure you enter your coordinates only through the hand unit. It¡¯s really finicky about how that data is entered. If you aren¡¯t sure, reset the sites and start again ? ? ? Thanks ? Brian ? ? Brian Valente Brianvalentephotography.com ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 4:23 AM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users] Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars? ? Hi!
Well. In the evening, at 21.00 to 23.00 circa, when I've been doing this, Ursa Major is North of Polaris, but Andromeda is not - it's to my East. Both those areas were "no-goto".
I'll check the latitude again. Although I do not use ASCOM. But the same information is in my Ekos/Indi-software.
As for cold start: good, that was my understanding - it starts from scratch, resetting the model. Now: doing 1 star (for instance Albireo), alingning with that, then Goto another that is acceptable (for instance Deneb) places the scope very close to the second star. That would to me indicate that the model at that point in time is fairly accurate (after 1 point). Adding the second, then going to a third (for instance Vega) works nicely - again getting very close to the star and then aligning. THis would indicate to me that the model for the South and South-West is OK. I mean, on the correct altitude. So how then, can it "think" that Dubhe and Mizar are below the horizon? It "knows" the altitude of Deneb, Albireo, and Vega.....? Just trying to understand the model.
"It almost seems like the Gemini thinks your Latitude is too far near the equator...and perhaps Gemini thinks they are below your horizon.? My guess is that this could be the source of the trouble"
This makes very much sense. But: how can it belive both Ursa Major and Andromeda is below the horizon (not very close in the sky....)? I guess I would need to see if there is anything North of Ursa Major that I can slew to, to see if it is a coherent sector of the sky, or if it is 2 sectors (as have been my understanding up until now). This will be tested tonight.
My guess is that there is some setting that is off and maybe my thinking is terribly wrong somewhere, and when I find it, it will be obvious.
Best,
Magnus
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Hi!
Well. In the evening, at 21.00 to 23.00 circa, when I've been doing this, Ursa Major is North of Polaris, but Andromeda is not - it's to my East. Both those areas were "no-goto".
I'll check the latitude again. Although I do not use ASCOM. But the same information is in my Ekos/Indi-software.
As for cold start: good, that was my understanding - it starts from scratch, resetting the model. Now: doing 1 star (for instance Albireo), alingning with that, then Goto another that is acceptable (for instance Deneb) places the scope very close to the second star. That would to me indicate that the model at that point in time is fairly accurate (after 1 point). Adding the second, then going to a third (for instance Vega) works nicely - again getting very close to the star and then aligning. THis would indicate to me that the model for the South and South-West is OK. I mean, on the correct altitude. So how then, can it "think" that Dubhe and Mizar are below the horizon? It "knows" the altitude of Deneb, Albireo, and Vega.....? Just trying to understand the model.
"It almost seems like the Gemini thinks your Latitude is too far near the
equator...and perhaps Gemini thinks they are below your horizon.? My
guess is that this could be the source of the trouble"
This makes very much sense. But: how can it belive both Ursa Major and Andromeda is below the horizon (not very close in the sky....)? I guess I would need to see if there is anything North of Ursa Major that I can slew to, to see if it is a coherent sector of the sky, or if it is 2 sectors (as have been my understanding up until now). This will be tested tonight.
My guess is that there is some setting that is off and maybe my thinking is terribly wrong somewhere, and when I find it, it will be obvious.
Best,
Magnus
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Hi!
Yes, of course, you are right. When using HC and doing Go To Bright star, it is align, then additional align. The computer does sync. Sorry for this.
Magnus
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Hi!
Yes, return to CWD works well (at least no problem with it so far). And yes, 1.04 level 5 (I'm at work now so cannot triple check but that's what is use to say). I upgraded to level 5 some 2 years ago. Bought a new EEPROM from some reliable place that I cannot recall right now - that is, not home made.
But I cannot slew without motors attached, can I? It typically says "Motor stalls" when I've tried to do that.
Best,
Magnus
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Hi Magnus,
Just looking at a sky chart for a Sweden location...?
It seems strange that your "forbidden" locations are very far North of Polaris (which for you is very high in the sky).
All your stars that are South of Polaris seem that you can GoTo them OK, but those North of Polaris at that time of night at your location seem "forbidden."
It almost seems like the Gemini thinks your Latitude is too far near the equator...and perhaps Gemini thinks they are below your horizon.? My guess is that this could be the source of the trouble.
So try and look at your Location information and especially the Latitude and see if that has got the right information.
The Gemini.net "Setup - Configure Telescope" will show the Longitude and Latitude entries.? You can also send that data to the Gemini from that applet.??
You can also choose "Gemini expects J2000" instead of the default "Jnow".? There seems to be about a 15 minute difference between the two in RA, though this cannot be your trouble.
Paul is correct in that a "Synch" only resets the Tick counter, and it does not actually change the Pointing model. When you did a Cold boot, your model values were all reset to zero, and that still should be OK.? You must press more buttons on the hand controller to register an "Align" that actually results in new model parameter calculations.? (And... for Gemini to get its calculations correct, you want to do 3 Align on one side of the Meridian first, then do 3 on the other side of the Meridian.? )
All the best, and hope your mystery clears up...
Michael
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:20 AM, brenatlilydale@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
?
Magnus
Thanks Magnus, so it'll return to CWD on command ok and not interrupt from one of these goto slew fails?? I'm guessing yes this is ok.?? If ok kinda tells me the servo system is ok.
Which is wired.? I'm going to have to stop drinking booze to get a clear head to think about all this....Haaaaa!? Sorry bad joke!
If it was a com's error with spurious HC commands happening then this would occur when trying to slew to park!
You still on EPROM 1.04 and haven't changed it?? If you have changed EPROM...its a possible EPROM data fail?? Don't know really clutching at straws.?? I kinda get the feeling this could be the issue but still wouldn't rule out HC/main PCB spurious commands occurring somewhere not necessarily in the HC.? But this appears to occur when commanding via RS232 as well, so, then we now go back to servo loop or EPROM!
Real odd issue....that I am not sure of.?
Does this occur if if you disconnect the motors from the axes and do some fake setup cold boots and slews to known stars available at that time?? Yes I know you have no idea if the system actually completed the correct goto but I'm looking for "interrupted" occurrences.
regards and get back
Brendan
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Magnus,
I think there is some confusion in your statements.
Synching does not add to the model, only aligning does that.
Synching just says to the software that I am here.
Regards
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Hi all!
Thanks for all suggestions on this issue! I've now tried a lot, but unfortunately, the problem is still there.?
I measure the voltage from the battery: 3.09 V.?
I checked and checked and triple checked lat and long - correct. So is UTC time.?
I set the safety limits, first to default, then to how I'd like them. Checked and checked.?
And it is still there. Very systematically (which leads me to think not HC issue). Yesterday night, I did a cold start, Go To Bright star to Albireo and sync (first point in model). Then I tried Go To Bright Star Dubhe - and get Interrrupted. I tries Deneb - works OK! Sync - second point in model. Tried Dubhe - Interrupted. Tried Mirfak (which means a meridian flip) - Interrupted. Tried Vega - OK! Sync - third point.?
Then I used the HC to manually slew to Mizar in Ursa Major, did a sync there, and then tried Go To Bright Star Dubhe again. Interrupted.?
Then (only then) did I attach the RS232 cable and the computer. That is, shut the mount down and did a warm restart. I tried slewing with the computer (not ASCOM, but Ekos/Indi). And i works with the same stars, but refuses to slew to anything in Andromeda or Perseus. When using the computer to slew to Perseus, the HC reports Interrupted, and the computer says "Slew complete" (well...).?
I was going to image M33. So I used the HC to manually slew to somewhere around M33 (I could not use HC nor computer to GoTo M33). Then I used the computer to plate solve and "sync". I am not sure how that sync interacts with the point model in Losmandy though. Now I used the computer to slew to M33 - and it worked!! And I could plate solve and have it adjust postion to center om M33.?
So: first nothing in Andromeda is allowed for a GoTo. But after having the computer (Ekos/indi) plate solve very close to my intended target, it worked.?
It feels to me like there is something wrong with th e point model. But if I cold start, do I not build it from scratch? Could there be someting corrupting the point model, that I am not aware of?
Or is my G1 more severely ill.....?
Big problem with this, is that I cannot trust the scope to work automatically. That is, I'd like to use a scheduler and have it start in the middle of the night and image until dawn, for instance with M33. As it is now, I need to manually manipualte it to be able to reach the intended target. So it is a practical problem.?
Magnus
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Magnus Thanks Magnus, so it'll return to CWD on command ok and not interrupt from one of these goto slew fails?? I'm guessing yes this is ok.?? If ok kinda tells me the servo system is ok. Which is wired.? I'm going to have to stop drinking booze to get a clear head to think about all this....Haaaaa!? Sorry bad joke! If it was a com's error with spurious HC commands happening then this would occur when trying to slew to park! You still on EPROM 1.04 and haven't changed it?? If you have changed EPROM...its a possible EPROM data fail?? Don't know really clutching at straws.?? I kinda get the feeling this could be the issue but still wouldn't rule out HC/main PCB spurious commands occurring somewhere not necessarily in the HC.? But this appears to occur when commanding via RS232 as well, so, then we now go back to servo loop or EPROM! Real odd issue....that I am not sure of.? Does this occur if if you disconnect the motors from the axes and do some fake setup cold boots and slews to known stars available at that time?? Yes I know you have no idea if the system actually completed the correct goto but I'm looking for "interrupted" occurrences. regards and get back Brendan
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Magnus Thanks Magnus, so it'll return to CWD on command ok and not interrupt from one of these goto slew fails?? I'm guessing yes this is ok.?? If ok kinda tells me the servo system is ok. Which is wired.? I'm going to have to stop drinking booze to get a clear head to think about all this....Haaaaa!? Sorry bad joke! If it was a com's error with spurious HC commands happening then this would occur when trying to slew to park! You still on EPROM 1.04 and haven't changed it?? If you have changed EPROM...its a possible EPROM data fail?? Don't know really clutching at straws.?? I kinda get the feeling this could be the issue but still wouldn't rule out HC/main PCB spurious commands occurring somewhere not necessarily in the HC.? But this appears to occur when commanding via RS232 as well, so, then we now go back to servo loop or EPROM! Real odd issue....that I am not sure of.? Does this occur if if you disconnect the motors from the axes and do some fake setup cold boots and slews to known stars available at that time?? Yes I know you have no idea if the system actually completed the correct goto but I'm looking for "interrupted" occurrences. regards and get back Brendan
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Michael Herman