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Re: I put a G11 gearbox in the freezer...


 

Hi Mark,

Good points.? Some thoughts...?a long email.??

Until now I have ignored the gearbox as an area that could "freeze up".? I just bought 2 new gearboxes at the factory this week. These are my first two brand new gearboxes.? I do live these days in a very benign climate that never freezes.? Denver is calling to me, however...

?In turning the output shaft of the new gearboxes by hand, at 78F temperature (a nice warm February day in Burbank!!!) the rotation was notably slow and viscous.? The new units have a cellophane type tape over the motor pinion gear entry port to prevent particles from entering, and prevent lube from flowing out on a hot day in storage.? My old gearboxes spin very loosely and freely by comparison.??

If you were in a freezing climate, could you clean that viscous lube out and put in Superlube, say??

Maybe a soak in alcohol or WD40 would dilute the internal grease, and you could easily pack in lighter Superlube.? The parts are plastic (ABS maybe?) Maybe brass and stainless?steel inside?? Can't use a harsh solvent like Berryman B-12 "Chemtool" as it might soften the plastic.? Can't insert anything in the gearbox that might leave a fiber or particle.??

My old gearboxes, all on used mounts,? had essentially zero lube left in them.? The gears spun freely and loosely.? I never got a new gearbox til now to tell they are intended to have lube packed inside.? I'd try the Superlube that is advertised, and astronomy tested, to go to very low temperature.??

The stock gearbox does not disassemble...it is sealed by rivets.? The McLennan gearboxes from Element14 do disassemble with 4 tiny flat head screws.? But not the McLennan gearboxes from RS components...those have a sealing paint over the assembly screws.? If you can disassemble the gearbox it helps in replacing the greases of course.?

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Always experiments to try...some other notes...


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On the possible overloading the worm bearings Mark raised:

On my G11 and GM8 worm bearings I use a single R4 Belleville spring washer (in each axis) to preload the axis (under the far worm bearing that I polish down til it will slide).? Fully compressed by hand (not crushed!) a single spring provides up to 7 pounds of axial force on both worm bearings and keeps the worm in position at the gearbox end bearing, at all temperatures.? ?But that's my mod...not the factory recommended component.??

If the worm blocks were compressed (say really super tight by using a C-clamp !) at daytime temperature, then bolted down hard,... then cooled down at night the aluminum contraction on the brass worm could really tighten down on the little R4ZZ bearings as you mention.? Aluminum expands and contracts slightly faster than brass... so the OPW or mounting flange would compress the worm bearings most at low temperature.

On the G11T, I asked at the factory how much to torque down the far 4-hole end screw that preloads the big Titan worm bearings (30 mm OD diameter bearings).? Mr Losmandy said..."just touch".? That is, screw in the endcap until? the cap just touches the bearing end.? I think that means put no torque on the screw cap.? That is for the Titan and G11T worm RA drives.? (See picture of that part.? In that photo I have a simple spanner wrench to tighten down the end cap....before getting the recommendation this week. ). I'll try that looser approach this coming week when I get home.??

Lots of factors to consider on the slippery road to perfection.? Every idea must get tested out to see how it improves or worsens PE.? What is the level you need for your imaging work?? Getting good tracking with autoguiding and maybe PEC too? Keep shooting!??

I'm very happy with my existing G11 and GM8 and GM811 mounts.? They have gotten down to about 1 to 1.5 arcsec RMS PE...with no PEC used.? That could go lower with PEC, and Brian urges the use of PEMpro to generate the PEC curve.? He reports excellent results on his mounts, and he goes a lot of imaging.??

But at present I'm working on a difficult case with a G11T mount, carrying a massive C14HD f/11 focal length like 3900 mm and piggyback 80 mm guide scope/finder scope on top.? (even with 0.7 FL reducer, the long FL and mass of scope and heavy counterweights is a tough challenge).? I'm getting good suggestions from the factory and other G11T and Atlas owners.? Some owners got very good PE results and I'll be happy to replicate their achievements.? ?When I get "there"...I'll let you know what worked in my case.?

Best,

Michael

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 7:46 AM Mark Christensen <mjcw500@...> wrote:
David,

Kudos for you doing this engineering experiment.

A friend is bringing over his Celestron AVX next week because it became unmovable in our last cold spell here in Northern Illinois.

I'm expecting to find frozen grease along with overtightened bearings and gears - he bought it used and I'm betting the prior owner overdid the backlash adjustment. That or the factory did in response to persistent complaints about backlash by customers who don't know how to work with less than perfect stuff. I've seen multiple mounts which had the RA and DEC bearing thrust pre-load nuts way too tight. I suspect the assemblers read the automotive spec for the bearings and used that pre-load.

The problem is rampant: Unsuitable grease installed by Sun Bathers in America and China. Same mentality that puts electronic parts only spec'ed to 0 deg C in telescope mounts, as Meade has done in the past.

A decade or so ago a friend of mine had to install heaters on the bearing housings of an early production Paramount because of grease and bearings seizing in the cold. It was installed (as it should be) in an unheated dome in western Michigan. I once installed a small 12V heater pad on a 120V synchronous motor such as we used in the old days pre-servo and stepper.

Things like this bring to mind the Eastern Front in the winter of 1941. Maybe the companies should hire a few engineers from Novosibirsk?

To me I'd worry about excessive wear on the first few gears, even if the mount functions as others have said.

But perhaps there is nothing to be done about it aside from keeping an eye on it.

Again, Kudos.

Mark Christensen

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