Thanks to you all for your input....it sounds like this is quite a
common modification and I'd be very interested to see some pictures
of how it's done.

As my business address is public domain I'll publish it here and if
anyone can send me a photo or two then I'd be very greatful.

Nigel Silverthorn
Xanthos Sports Cars
8 Tarragon Place
Bradley Stoke
Bristol
BS32 8TP

www.xanthoscars.co.uk

Many thanks and I look forward to seeing them.
Best regards
Nigel

--- In L23Registry@..., "Gary Horstkorta" <horsty@m...>
wrote:

Nigel:

I think I have seen such a frame/car as you describe which belongs

to a

vintage racer here in Northern California. I also have heard of

other 23

owners who have removed the diagonal tube running from the bulkhead

on the

drivers side to the left front junction of the main frame. This

was

replaced by either one or two tubes which meet at the top of the

scuttle and

extend down to the cross tube at the front of the chassis. As you
indicated, the spare tire mounting is lost but there certainly is

more knee

room.

At 6' 0" and 215 lbs. I fit snuggly into my 23 but I have the

advantage of

shorter legs and a longer upper body. Even at that I have padding

on the

standard cross brace in the footwell to protect my right leg and

rely on the

"dead pedal" quite a bit during a race.

I will let you know if I am able to contact the 23 owner mentioned

in the

first paragraph.

Regards,

Gary


From: "silvenm" <Nigel@s...>
Reply-To: L23Registry@...
To: L23Registry@...
Subject: [L23Registry] Chassis modification
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:12:00 -0000

Nigel,

I have a car that was modified for a tall driver. I am 6 ft. and
have no problem with tubes by my ancles or shins. My only problem is
with my knees and the major hoop that holds the instruments. I would
like to send you some pictures but have been unable to in this
format. I will try to add them to the photos section. My car is in
the photos of my Lotus section.

Don Stark

--- In L23Registry@..., "silvenm" <Nigel@s...> wrote:

Hi all,
Sometime ago I was told about a 'very early' chassis which had some
interesting chassis differences to any other I have seen. These
included a triangulated frame down the outside of the the main
chassis and was used for side pod mounting instead of the simple
mounting points on later cars. It may have been there primarily to
provide side strength (this was before the extra tubes where fitted
inside the main side rails)but I imagine was removed to reduce

weight.

Of more interest to me at the moment though where the tubes which

sit

above the drivers knees and on which the spare wheel sits. These
where several inches higher up being taken from the same location

on

the passenger side (as far as I could tell from the photo) but high
up on the front bulkhead on the drivers side. This gives much more
knee room and allows for a taller driver. Of course it excluded the
fit of a spare tyre. I am interested in this as I often get
approached by taller drivers who wnat to know if I have a solution
for them.

Does anyone out there know of this? Has anyone seen a car like this
and was it something the factory tried? I do wonder if this was the
original concept but was changed to allow for the spare?

regards
Nigel

Nigel:

Actually I was thinking of another car but Carl and I belong to the same vintage race club, Classic Sports Racing Group (CSRG) here in Northern California. I see you have sent him an email and I am sure he will provide you with all the info he can. In the meantime, I will endevour to check out other Lotus 23s at my next event which is the Monterey Historics in August. I'll let you know if I find out anything.

Gary


From: "silvenm" <Nigel@...>
Reply-To: L23Registry@...
To: L23Registry@...
Subject: [L23Registry] Re: Chassis modification
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:21:46 -0000

Thanks Gary,
I've also recieved a note from Carl and wonder if he is refering to
the same car? I would love any pistures or more information about
these mods and would be especially interested if they were done in
period or even by the factory. If this mod was available from the
factory then a replacement chassis may be eligable for an FIA HTP
certificate with the same modification. As I make replacement chassis
for a living this would be good to know!!

Many thanks
Nigel Silverthorn

--- In L23Registry@..., "Gary Horstkorta" <horsty@m...>
wrote:

Nigel:

I think I have seen such a frame/car as you describe which belongs

to a

vintage racer here in Northern California. I also have heard of

other 23

owners who have removed the diagonal tube running from the bulkhead

on the

drivers side to the left front junction of the main frame. This

was

replaced by either one or two tubes which meet at the top of the

scuttle and

extend down to the cross tube at the front of the chassis. As you
indicated, the spare tire mounting is lost but there certainly is

more knee

room.

At 6' 0" and 215 lbs. I fit snuggly into my 23 but I have the

advantage of

shorter legs and a longer upper body. Even at that I have padding

on the

standard cross brace in the footwell to protect my right leg and

rely on the

"dead pedal" quite a bit during a race.

I will let you know if I am able to contact the 23 owner mentioned

in the

first paragraph.

Regards,

Gary


From: "silvenm" <Nigel@s...>
Reply-To: L23Registry@...
To: L23Registry@...
Subject: [L23Registry] Chassis modification
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:12:00 -0000

Carl, Thanks for this and yes I would love to see a photo of the
modification. Also do you know when this was done? Do you know if it
was done at the factory or with their knowledge perhaps?

Best regards
Nigel Silverythorn

--- In L23Registry@..., cmoore88@a... wrote:

Greetings.

My name is Carl Moore and I own 23S-102 which has a modification to

the frame

you have described. I am 6' 2" tall and fit in this car very well

without

rubbing the skin off of my shin bones. I just aquired this car a

few months

ago, but it was formerly owned and raced by a fellow here in Nor

Calif named John

Poitrus.

I could take a picture of the frame modification and send it to any

needy

folks if that would be a help.

Sincerely

Carl Moore

Nigel:

I think I have seen such a frame/car as you describe which belongs to a vintage racer here in Northern California. I also have heard of other 23 owners who have removed the diagonal tube running from the bulkhead on the drivers side to the left front junction of the main frame. This was replaced by either one or two tubes which meet at the top of the scuttle and extend down to the cross tube at the front of the chassis. As you indicated, the spare tire mounting is lost but there certainly is more knee room.

At 6' 0" and 215 lbs. I fit snuggly into my 23 but I have the advantage of shorter legs and a longer upper body. Even at that I have padding on the standard cross brace in the footwell to protect my right leg and rely on the "dead pedal" quite a bit during a race.

I will let you know if I am able to contact the 23 owner mentioned in the first paragraph.

Regards,

Gary


From: "silvenm" <Nigel@...>
Reply-To: L23Registry@...
To: L23Registry@...
Subject: [L23Registry] Chassis modification
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:12:00 -0000

开云体育

开云体育

Hi all,
Sometime ago I was told about a 'very early' chassis which had some
interesting chassis differences to any other I have seen. These
included a triangulated frame down the outside of the the main
chassis and was used for side pod mounting instead of the simple
mounting points on later cars. It may have been there primarily to
provide side strength (this was before the extra tubes where fitted
inside the main side rails)but I imagine was removed to reduce weight.

Of more interest to me at the moment though where the tubes which sit
above the drivers knees and on which the spare wheel sits. These
where several inches higher up being taken from the same location on
the passenger side (as far as I could tell from the photo) but high
up on the front bulkhead on the drivers side. This gives much more
knee room and allows for a taller driver. Of course it excluded the
fit of a spare tyre. I am interested in this as I often get
approached by taller drivers who wnat to know if I have a solution
for them.

Does anyone out there know of this? Has anyone seen a car like this
and was it something the factory tried? I do wonder if this was the
original concept but was changed to allow for the spare?

regards
Nigel

开云体育

Hi All,

No progress since getting the car running a month ago. My son has
started Little League and that is where I am spending my weekends.
Still nice to have a running Lotus 23 V-8 sitting in the garage!

I have put my hands on a decent scanner that has allowed me to scan
the two photos of the car from the log book. The
photos were taken in 1971. One shows the car on the trailer in what
looks like Riverside. Note the flares and the radiator hot exhaust
exit right in front of the windscreen. Note the roll cage with the
welded in triangulation back to the motor mounts. This required
cutouts in the rear body. The other photo shows the seats with the
sheet aluminum mounting points. There is a sheet of aluminum that
is riveted to the seats and then this is screwed to nutserts mounted
in the top firewall tube. The car is exactly the same as shown on
these photos. Also notice the bulge in the rear body where it comes
down to the firewall. This bulge is to clear the distributor for
the V-8. I do not have the front or rear sections as they were
thrown away by some laborers. I will have to recreate the bulge in
a new rear section. I am going to use the rear section that I have
and modify it to resemble this photo. I will then add this detail
to the mold that I have and pull a new body. I would like to ask
people for their advice and experience on front body sections. Who
still makes them and of those that are available, who has the best
quality? I am going to have to buy a new nose and modify it to add
the 23C style flares and the radiator exhaust cutout.

Also, to raise spouse friendly funds for the restoration I am going
to need to sell some excess parts. I have a spare transmission for
my car. If anyone needs or knows of someone looking for a Hewland HD-
5 transmission (Elva Mk7, Brabham, Cooper F1) please pass along my
email. The transmission does not have a bellhousing but appears to
be in excellent condition and complete.


All for now

Evan McGreevy
Mill Valley, CA

Carl:

Four steps:

1. Go to Yahoo Groups
2. If you are signed in, click on Photos
3. If not signed in, click on photos, then enter your password when asked
4. Click on photos again then click on pictures you want to see

Gary


From: "mclaren6a03" <carl@...>
Reply-To: L23Registry@...
To: L23Registry@...
Subject: [L23Registry] how to open photo files
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 23:31:52 -0000

O.k. I keep trying to open photo albums....help

Hello:

I suppose it would have been helpful in my last email to tell you
that I have posted two pictures on the L23Registry page.

Gary

Hello All:

While at the CSRG Vintage race two weeks ago at Infineon Raceway,
our paddock area suddenly became open as my mates took off for a
race in their production cars. The only car left was the beautiful
Lotus 11 LeMans so my friend Jack and I decided this was an
opportunity not to be missed. We wheeled our two Loti out alongside
the 11 for a photo op. Not too often do you get a chance to put
three different Loti together. Mine is the red one, and Jack's is
the Lotus 18. Three of Colin's best.

Gary Horstkorta

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the L23Registry
group.

File : /lotus 23 comparison.DWF
Uploaded by : marinmcgreevy <marinmcgreevy@...>
Description : DWF File of Frame Comparison

You can access this file at the URL



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit



Regards,

marinmcgreevy <marinmcgreevy@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the L23Registry
group.

File : /frame comparison.doc
Uploaded by : marinmcgreevy <marinmcgreevy@...>
Description : Frame Tube Comparison

You can access this file at the URL



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit



Regards,

marinmcgreevy <marinmcgreevy@...>

All,

I have taken the Lotus 23 Chassis drawings (David Platts) and
compared the drawing to the frame and made a quick sketch that
compares the frames from the firewall back to the transmission
crossmember. The locations of all the tubes, suspension pickups, and
a crossmembers are the same. The size and wall thickness of nearly
all the tubes is greater. The motor mount location on each side of
the frame is considerably stronger with more tubes converging at this
point. Also, there is an additional motor mount, a sort of torque
arm, that mounts to one of the cylinder heads and goes to to the
corner of the firewall. The lower reversed A-arm mount on the frame
is significantly more robust, being fully boxed with additional
gussets. All these features are original to the frame indicating
that the intended use for the frame was for a car with significantly
more power than a standard 23.

One other interesting difference is the transmission mount. On the
23B drawings the center to center dimension for the transmission
mounts is 9-1/2". On my car, the center to center dimension for the
transmission is 8". This mount is also fabricated from a 1", 14ga
tube joined with a 1/2" tube. These two tubes are joined with a
fillet weld on the longitudinal axis. This makes sense if the car
was design to take the Hewland HD-5 transmission.

The suspension components are original and appear to be standard 23.
One of the front upper A-arms has a serial number engraved: 8598.

I went over my notes from my discussion with the second owner. He
showed the car in the 1970 San Francisco Auto Show held at Civic
Auditorium. The car was painted green and called the "Big Tube Lotus
23 BMW" I have portions of this body (Green #98)

I have uploaded the frame sketch, both as a Word document and as an
Autocad DWF (Drawing Web Format)file.

I very much appreciate all of your input. As a mechanical engineer
who has to make mechanical integrity decisions on a daily basis I
know that the more heads involved the better. The attraction of the
car to me is that it was obviously NOT a successful design or there
would have been more made. That makes it unique. My job is to
restore the car and make it as safe as possible while keeping it
unique.

Thanks!

Evan

开云体育

I appreciate this is a bit OT but always worth the ask! I have
recently done a P/X on a replica 23 (he wants it for road use and
already has 15, 22, 23) for a genuine 20 in bits. Car is original and
spent most of it's life in Finland. There is very little evidence of
any crash damage and the body (though pretty dire now) also looks
original and not smashed so it appears the car had an easy life. A
full restoration will be started soon but the car is FOR SALE in any
state of re-build from 'as-is' to 'on the button'.

If anyone has an interest or knows anyone then please let me know.

The car will be fully eligable for FIA historic Formula Junior.

Many thanks