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Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Civilian tragedy Totskoye

 

For what its worth in the book -General Anders and the soldiers of The Second Polish Corps- by Harvey Sarner on page 33 there is this.

'In Autumn of 1941'...'there was utter chaos when the Soviets collected trekkers and began sending them back to camps in the north. Some trekkers lived in train stations waiting for trains that would never come. Many died of hunger and exposure.'

If you like I can scan the page for you. Might also be worth contacting the author? You might try contacting the Hoover institute and ask for any depositions written by the people you mention. I've done this a few times with interesting results.

Just my 2 cents
Chris Calgary

From: annapacewicz
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 4:16:55 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Civilian tragedy Totskoye

?
Dear group,

I hope that you can help me solve a mystery.

I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic incident.

My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the Division was transferred to Uzbekistan.

Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – they were all frozen and dead.

Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station).
Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due to arrive at CZKA??W.

Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki.

The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers.

A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the train was "found".

When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies.

Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies greeting them as each of the doors was opened.

Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the next two days.

Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives.

Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about "escaping" or their lives being in danger.

I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and was extremely upset.

Her Wall of Names profile is:

Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group.

Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then.
Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Introducing new member Linda Cimachowicz from, Glendora, CA. USA

 

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Linda welcome to group and with all the knowledge held by group, information will be found.

Warmest regards,

Lenarda, Sydney, Australia

?

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of Helen Bitner
Sent: Saturday, 27 April, 2013 9:57 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Introducing new member Linda Cimachowicz from, Glendora, CA. USA

?

?

? ? ? ? ? ? ?Dear Group

? ? ? ? ? ? Please welcome new member Linda who is searching for the family of her father-in-law Wladyslaw Cimachowicz ?born 1910?from the ? ? ? ? ? ??

? ? ? ? ? ?Bojarszczyzna Village of Nowogrodek, Poland, now in Belarus.?

? ? ? ? ? Wladyslaw emigrated to Montreal, Canada ?after the war ended in 1946 but was never able to find out at happened to the family he

????????? left behind. Now?Linda and her husband ?are planning a trip to Eastern Europe and Belarus and?want to find out what happened to his family?

? ? ? ? ? and if there is any other relatives as Wladyslaw had several siblings.They would like to know where ?Wladyslaw's parents?Lukasz ? ? ?

? ? ? ? ? Cimachowicz?and??Anastazja nee Olszewska are buried.?

? ? ? ? ? Wladyslaw?served in the Polish Armed Forces from 1939 till 1946.?He was a POW of the Russians from 1939 to 1941.

? ? ? ? ? ?Linda would appreciate any help or suggestions that would help in her search.

? ? ? ? ? I wish you every success, Linda.

?

?

? ? ? ? ?Kind regards?

? ? ? ? ? Helen Bitner

? ? ? ? ? ?Colchester UK

?

?

?
Introducing new member Linda Cimachowicz from, Glendora, CA. USA

Helen Bitner
 

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? ? ? ? ? ? ?Dear Group
? ? ? ? ? ? Please welcome new member Linda who is searching for the family of her father-in-law Wladyslaw Cimachowicz ?born 1910?from the ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ?Bojarszczyzna Village of Nowogrodek, Poland, now in Belarus.?
? ? ? ? ? Wladyslaw emigrated to Montreal, Canada ?after the war ended in 1946 but was never able to find out at happened to the family he
????????? left behind. Now?Linda and her husband ?are planning a trip to Eastern Europe and Belarus and?want to find out what happened to his family?
? ? ? ? ? and if there is any other relatives as Wladyslaw had several siblings.They would like to know where ?Wladyslaw's parents?Lukasz ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? Cimachowicz?and??Anastazja nee Olszewska are buried.?
? ? ? ? ? Wladyslaw?served in the Polish Armed Forces from 1939 till 1946.?He was a POW of the Russians from 1939 to 1941.
? ? ? ? ? ?Linda would appreciate any help or suggestions that would help in her search.
? ? ? ? ? I wish you every success, Linda.


? ? ? ? ?Kind regards?
? ? ? ? ? Helen Bitner
? ? ? ? ? ?Colchester UK
Ethnic Cleansing and Soviet Crimes Against Humanity

 

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Ethnic Cleansing and Soviet Crimes Against Humanity
by Ataullah Bogdan Kopanski

?

Regards

Lenarda, Australia

?

?

?

?
Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Civilian tragedy Totskoye

 

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Anna, I believe the story and believe that two people in separate areas of the planet speaking of the same recollection, is truth.

My mother spoke of events in her house at Niwna in Australia and her brother spoke of events of his house in Niwna in Poland, but only until it was published and I contacted the author of the article, that I realise both my mother and her brother at opposite ends of the earth were speaking of the same event and this is how we found each other and her family alive after 67 years. The author was my new found, living uncles’ grandson.

Now we need others to collaborate this story or some written, if there is any and not destroyed, document, record of this train and the names of people put on this train.

It is the same, as I listened to my mother in law speak of a ship sinking with all Polish souls drowning and could not place this ranting, until it was confirmed that a ship sank during a storm on the Caspian Sea. Back then I did not even know of the Caspian Sea crossing.

Regards,

Lenarda, Australia ?

?

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of annapacewicz
Sent: Saturday, 27 April, 2013 8:17 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Civilian tragedy Totskoye

?

?

Dear group,

I hope that you can help me solve a mystery.

I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic incident.

My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the Division was transferred to Uzbekistan.

Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – they were all frozen and dead.

Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station).
Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due to arrive at CZKA??W.

Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki.

The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers.

A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the train was "found".

When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies.

Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies greeting them as each of the doors was opened.

Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the next two days.

Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives.

Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about "escaping" or their lives being in danger.

I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and was extremely upset.

Her Wall of Names profile is:

Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group.

Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then.

Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about the incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at the Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in Orenburg, see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How else can I corroborate this incident?

Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many years later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event has been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately.

Thank you for any help,

Anna Pacewicz
Sydney
Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Civilian tragedy Totskoye

 

Hi Anna,
What a story; hope you solve it but it doesnt look easy.
Obviously, searching for NKVD records will be like whistling up a tree.
Hopefully someone is around that was expecting someone on that train, that would help.
If not, maybe there will be a small?town that kept track of people leaving the oblast which could be compared to the red cross list of the evacuated civilians, or?maybe a schedule of trains.
Another longshot might be the 'company' who owned the trains also might have been unlikely to return those cars to inventory so there would be missing car numbers that could trace back a different way to point of origin and route.
Somebody knew them, they are smiling at you now for thinking of them.
I wonder why those poor souls were picked for such fate; even the ones who survived. Its sickening that nobody paid for that crime.
?
Mark T.
Canada

From: annapacewicz
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 6:16:55 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Civilian tragedy Totskoye
?
Dear group,

I hope that you can help me solve a mystery.

I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic incident.

My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the Division was transferred to Uzbekistan.

Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – they were all frozen and dead.

Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station).
Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due to arrive at CZKA??W.

Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki.

The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers.

A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the train was "found".

When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies.

Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies greeting them as each of the doors was opened.

Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the next two days.

Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives.

Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about "escaping" or their lives being in danger.

I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and was extremely upset.

Her Wall of Names profile is:

Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group.

Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then.

Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about the incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at the Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in Orenburg, see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How else can I corroborate this incident?

Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many years later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event has been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately.

Thank you for any help,

Anna Pacewicz
Sydney
Civilian tragedy Totskoye

 

Dear group,

I hope that you can help me solve a mystery.

I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic incident.

My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the Division was transferred to Uzbekistan.

Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – they were all frozen and dead.

Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station).
Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due to arrive at CZKA??W.

Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki.

The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers.

A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the train was "found".

When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies.

Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies greeting them as each of the doors was opened.

Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the next two days.

Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives.

Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about "escaping" or their lives being in danger.

I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and was extremely upset.

Her Wall of Names profile is:

Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group.

Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then.

Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about the incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at the Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in Orenburg, see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How else can I corroborate this incident?

Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many years later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event has been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately.

Thank you for any help,

Anna Pacewicz
Sydney
Hi

 


Single Mom Makes $89,844/Yr in Her Spare Time on The Computer Without Selling Anything





















4/26/2013 10:10:01 PM
Re: Photo Identification

 

Hey Ewa if you like I can post your images on the Polish section of warrelics forum. There are some very knowledgeable folks there. -Do let me know-. What I can tell you is the photo titled Egypt is a prewar photo taken in Poland. The officer's uniforms might be KOP - Korpusu Ochrony Pogranicza or Border Protection Corps.

Chris Calgary

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Eva Dryanski <ebard55@...> wrote:

Can anyone identify the uniforms in these pictures? I can identify the Polish Army uniforms,
but am uncertain of the darker colored uniforms with the round top caps that my uncles are wearing.
Please see the attachments. We think we labeled the last picture incorrectly. We believe that the
darker uniforms are either police or Reserve/KOP.
Thanks,

Ewa D., Nevada
Photo Identification

  

Can anyone identify the uniforms in these pictures?  I can identify the Polish Army uniforms, 
but am uncertain of the darker colored uniforms with the round top caps that my uncles are wearing.  
Please see the attachments.  We think we labeled the last picture incorrectly.  We believe that the 
darker uniforms are either police or Reserve/KOP. 
Thanks,

Ewa D., Nevada

Re: 181 page book with 8 700 Deported families - uploaded to the Hall of Memories

 

Krystyna

I'm glad to help out where possible. Thank you for uploading the document.

Frances

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., <kms0902@...> wrote:

Thank you for finding that info Francis. It was very late at my end when I finished Photoshopping and then uploading the 100 images to the Hall of Memories, so I was going to look for the details this morning. You have saved me doing so.

Krystyna
Winnipeg, Canada



From: mailto:f_gates@...
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 4:18 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: 181 page book with 8 700 Deported families - uploaded to the Hall of Memories

Anna

Please see message no 41511 from Nov 7 2010 as shown below from Janusz

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Elizabeth Olsson" <elzunia@> wrote:

The Romer list is new to me too
The list was announced in this group in February this year


Janusz ?�" can you explain for us just what the list contains, seeing
as the intro is in Polish.
The list contains names and locations of Polish deportees, obtained mainly (if
not exclusively) by Tadeusz Romer, at the time (1941) the Polish ambassador to
Japan.

The displaced Poles were not allowed to send any correspondence to (German- and
Russian-occupied) Poland, nor to anywhere in the West. There was no such a ban
on post to Japan. Somehow a deportee had an idea of writing to the Polish
embassy in Tokyo, informing the embassy about his/her fate and asking whether
they could get any information about other family members.

One way or another, the idea spread among the deportees, and the embassy
received thousands of postcards with names and location. The ambassador asked
his staff and family members to make a hand-written list of all the information.

Page VII of the introduction says that in January 1941 it become possible to
send parcels and money to the deportees from the Far East. Special Social
Security sections were created in the Polish embassy in Tokyo and consulate in
Shanghai and 745 people received goods (food, clothing, medicine) or money, to
the total value of about $12,300 [worth roughly $180,000 today].

And - message no 41517

In Kresy-Siberia@..., Helen Bitner <helen.bitner@> wrote:
I too thank you Janusz,
The person we really should be grateful to is Teresa Romer, the ambassador's
daughter, who took photos of the book and kindly agreed to let us use it.

Hope this helps

Frances


--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" wrote:

Dear Krystyna,

Thank you so much for uploading this - it is truly an amazing document. Though my own family are not listed (8,700 out of up to 1.7million so not that surprising) I am just curious if anybody knows, or if the introduction (which is in Polish) explains how and why so many families contacted the Ambassador in Japan? I am surprised the Soviets would have allowed letters to be posted outside of the USSR, to Japan (which was viewed as a potential invader to USSR)? And I wonder if deportees did not contact any other Ambassadors around the world and whether any other lists therefore exist (given the NKVD did not keep these files).

Thanks again
Anna Pacewicz
Sydney
Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: New map Kazakhstan

 

Well, Anna!

You will be "responsible" for the North Kazakhstan oblast - region (center - Petropavlovsk). Soon I'll send you a version of the table with "rajons" - districts and?known settlements there, and you will fill this table of?available data from all sources.

Then we impose the table on the modern map of this area with the old and new names, and bears?railways (at 1941).

We will work?accounting new geographic information technologies.

Stan from M.

From: annapacewicz
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 8:23 AM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: New map Kazakhstan
?
Dear Stan,

Thank you - I would love to help with this. My family were sent to
village Krasnodolsk, Kiellrowski Region, nearest city Petropavlovsk, Kazakhstan (my grandfather was killed Katyn - Kiev). I think perhaps they would have been on the train 13th April 1940 from Rowne with the final destination Omsk, the train would have stopped first at Petropavlovsk.

Although my family are not listed in the 8,700 deportees in the Ambassador's document from Tokyo, I did see the Kiellrowski region with other families listed.

(There is a list of USSR regions that deportees were sent to at the beginning. So on Page 9 there is a reference to the area my family were deported to under the Heading 40. Siwiero Kazachstnskaja Oblast (Centrum administr. g. Pietropawlovsk... and then underneath that the fifth region down "Kellerowskij").

http://kresy-siberia.org/hom/element/deportation/ambassador-romer-list-of-deportees/information-about-polish-deportees-in-ussr-1941-pg-9/

I also have a Russian railway map from 1942. It is all in Russian so I cannot read it but it is very detailed. I will scan this and upload it. It will then be possible to also look at the villages/regions within each oblast of Kazakhstan in relation to the railway lines and stations.

If we allocate members who volunteer by Oblast, is it worth writing to each of the local archives. I still need to write to the Petropavlovsk archive - do the local Kazakh archives still have information relating to the NKVD / deportees I wonder - has anybody had any luck with this?

Stan let me know how I can best help,

Kind regards
Anna Pacewicz
Sydney
Batory Street, Lwow

 

I assume Batory Street has been renamed now, does anyone know what its
now called?
it used to be home to Polskie Radio Lwow
I 'd like to have a look at the building when i visit

--
Tim Bucknall
Congleton, UK
Re: New map Kazakhstan

 

Dear Stan,

Thank you - I would love to help with this. My family were sent to
village Krasnodolsk, Kiellrowski Region, nearest city Petropavlovsk, Kazakhstan (my grandfather was killed Katyn - Kiev). I think perhaps they would have been on the train 13th April 1940 from Rowne with the final destination Omsk, the train would have stopped first at Petropavlovsk.

Although my family are not listed in the 8,700 deportees in the Ambassador's document from Tokyo, I did see the Kiellrowski region with other families listed.

(There is a list of USSR regions that deportees were sent to at the beginning. So on Page 9 there is a reference to the area my family were deported to under the Heading 40. Siwiero Kazachstnskaja Oblast (Centrum administr. g. Pietropawlovsk... and then underneath that the fifth region down "Kellerowskij").



I also have a Russian railway map from 1942. It is all in Russian so I cannot read it but it is very detailed. I will scan this and upload it. It will then be possible to also look at the villages/regions within each oblast of Kazakhstan in relation to the railway lines and stations.

If we allocate members who volunteer by Oblast, is it worth writing to each of the local archives. I still need to write to the Petropavlovsk archive - do the local Kazakh archives still have information relating to the NKVD / deportees I wonder - has anybody had any luck with this?

Stan let me know how I can best help,

Kind regards
Anna Pacewicz
Sydney

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...> wrote:

Hi all!

Due to emergence of new today data, I conceived a new idea.

The second wave of deportations April 13, 1940 (the family of so-called "enemies of people", almost all - members of men's families who were executed in "Katyn" (3 camps), shot in Minsk and Kiev prisons) was exclusively to the Northern Kazakhstan.

In the literature this wave of deportations reflects badly. It is now possible to fill in some gaps.

Maps of places in Kazakhstan, showing locations of deported (like Dr. Gurianov maps for Arkhangelsk and Vologda region) does not exist.

There is a proposal first to make the table, and then apply it to real map of Kazakhstan.

Many localities in Kazakhstan renamed - but they can be defined.

This would be an important contribution to common cause, especially for those who are just starting look for traces of their relatives.

I am one can not be done this work, group may be broken by regions (oblasts), - for a basis that data released today.

Stan from M.
since i can't sleep....questions i've always been curious about

 

How did the small number of Poles who remained in Lwow, Grodno etc
after 1946 manage to escape deportation to the west, or were they
gulag inmates who were allowed to return home after Stalin died?

Czech seems to have had a surprisingly strong influence on the Lwow
dialect for such a small population, were Czechs some kind of favoured
"adminstration class" in Hapsburg Galicia because they were
considered less rebellious than Poles?
did the tiny Czech population in Galicia escape post war deportation?

was there an attempt by the soviets to de-polonise the area around
Vilnius after WW2 , if not was this because it was considered distant
enough from the Polish Border?
I actually read that some Poles fleeing Wolyn settled in the
Lithuanian SSR after 1945
(I assume Zhitomirs Poles survived because it was far away from the
border with Poland?)

what was the thinking behind the deportation of Poles to Kaliningrad
in the 50's, since it goes against what i assume to be the "logic"
behind the post war population transfers?

did Tartars fight in the Polish Army, what are some typical
Kresy/Polish Tartar surnames?

I assume that at least some of the Polish population of Bialystock was
murdered or deported by the Soviets in 1939-1941, but after the city
was returned could any of these deportees return?

thanks in advance, hope these questions aren't too dumb :-)
Tim

ps: after seeing the English high streets slowly dying for most of my
lifetime (i was born in 1978), i can't tell you how good it is to see
Polish shops opening when most shops are closing!
--
Tim Bucknall
Congleton, UK
RDR54D1 + CLP5130
BBC complaints etc

 

I have read the previous messages about this topic. Are members here aware of the Polish Media Issues group? Its aim is to combat misleading information that appears in any media.

You can check out PMI on Facebook at:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/110553989006604/

That is an open group, there is also a closed group called Anti-Polish Monitor at:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/368256853216875/

Our last BBC campaign (in conjunction with the Polish Embassy in London) was in relation to an item on the Today Programme.

You may also be interested in a PMI publication, German Camps, Polish Victims: The BBC coverage of German-occupied Poland that is available at:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/German-Camps-Polish-Victims-ebook/dp/B009EXASLA

Regards
Victor
UK
Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Responding to inaccuracies: BBC, others

 

Sometimes it is important to know who you are dealing with. I suggest that we should review all of these and others in the future who we are trying to discuss issue of importance and see what is?underneath their thoughts and the?management?philosophy of the entire staff.

We all know that we make decisions based on our upbringing, education and life?experiences. If the?management?of any?organization has deep ingrained false beliefs, faulty?education or other??biased life?experiences we should knew that no matter what we say, what proof we produce nothing will change. In many cases that is no fault of a particular?individual?unless?they?realize?the error in their thinking but still refuse to change because of group pressure.

I have on many?occasions?submitted documents and links (on the Kresy-Siberia site) of such examples (the life?experiences?and education of people and groups) so I will not raise the issue again but feel it?important for each of us to make our own conclusions.

See link below to the BBC?management?staff current and some past members and where some of the past staff was "relocated". I do not wish to?influence?anyone one way or another but wish to supply general?information?for your individual review. If the BBC was/is a problem then the move of a past?member?of BBC might also have an effect on the person's new position in a new corporation of position in the same organization.

You can search for the bio of each member and get some idea of their?philosophy?and how they might react to a particular?issue or even if they will react at all.


Julek

?

?

Executive Board

The Executive Board manages the BBC. It is responsible for operational management and for the delivery of BBC services according to the plans that have been agreed with the BBC Trust.

The Board delegates some of its responsibilities to?: Audit, Fair Trading, Nominations and Remuneration.

It is also supported by a number of management groups, including the BBC Management Board, the Finance and Business committee, and boards at the Group level, such as Television and Radio. The boards of BBC Commercial Holdings and BBC Worldwide support the Executive Board on commercial matters.

The BBC Trust assesses the performance of the Executive Board in the?, which is published in July each year. The Report also includes the Board's own review of the year.

The Board is made up of executive directors from within the BBC and 4 non-executive directors from outside. It is chaired by the Director-General.

The Director-General is chief executive and editor-in-chief of the BBC and is appointed by the BBC Trust. The other Board members are appointed by the Nominations Committee and Executive Board, with non-executive appointments requiring approval by the BBC Trust.

The Executive Board meets once a month, and a summary of the minutes is published online once they have been approved at the following meeting.

Changes to the BBC Executive Board were announced on Thursday 14 February 2013. The changes took effect on Tuesday 2 April 2013. Further information can be found on the?.?

On Tuesday 16 April 2013 it was announced that James Harding had been appointed to the role of Director of News and Current Affairs. He will take up his post in August 2013, until which Francesca Unsworth will continue as Acting Director of News.?

It was announced on Tuesday 23 April 2013 that Danny Cohen had been appointed Director of Television. He takes up his role on 7 May 2013.?

?

Executive directors (April 2013)

Tony Hall is Director-General. He assumed the role of Director-General on 2 April 2013.

Helen is the Director of Radio and has overall responsibility for BBC Radios 1, 2, 3, and 4, and the BBC digital radio stations 1Xtra, 6Music, BBC 4 Extra and Asian Network.

* On Tuesday 23 April 2013 it was announced that Danny Cohen had been appointed to the role of Director, Television. Until Danny takes up his role on 7 May 2013, Roger Mosey will continue as Acting Director of Director, Television.

Francesca Unsworth leads BBC Newsgathering with responsibility for the deployment, coverage and safety of over 800 journalists and operational staff operating out of more than 40 countries. She is currently Acting Director of News.

* James Harding's appointment to Director of News and Current Affairs was announced on Tuesday 16 April, he will take up the role in August, 2013, until such time Francesca Unsworth will continue as Acting Director of News.

James Purnell is Director, Strategy & Digital. He took up his role on Wednesday 20 March, 2013.

Lucy is the Director of Human Resources, the BBC Academy and Internal Communications.

Zarin Patel has overall responsibility for the BBC's financial management and control.

Non-executive directors

·???????

·???????

·???????

·???????

?

·???????

December 19, 2012 03:39 p.m.

The BBC's 2011 decision to not air an investigative report on a deceased BBC personality was "seriously flawed" but wasn't made "for any improper reason," or because of managerial pressure, a review concluded.

·???????

November 16, 2012 04:06 p.m.

Former BBC head Mark Thompson is coming under increasing fire over when he learned about sex-abuse allegations against the late BBC disc jockey Jimmy Savile.

·???????

Subscriber ContentRead Preview

November 12, 2012 05:27 p.m.

Mark Thompson's debut at the helm of New York Times Co. Monday signals he has survived the doubts that have dogged him since the Jimmy Savile scandal erupted at the BBC. But big challenges await him at his new job.

·???????

November 16, 2012 09:34 a.m.

Here’s your morning roundup of the biggest media industry news and happenings.

·???????

August 17, 2012 10:13 a.m.

New York Times new Chief Executive Mark Thompson will receive an annual base salary of $1 million and is eligible for sign-on incentive awards valued at $3 million in company stock and stock options.

·???????

August 15, 2012 08:08 p.m.

Mark Thompson, known for having a tough skin, steered the BBC through painful cutbacks and a digital transformation. Now, as CEO of the New York Times, he will have similar challenges, but fewer resources and more-limited power.

·???????

August 14, 2012 07:14 p.m.

Mark Thompson, outgoing director general of British Broadcasting Corp., will be the next president and chief executive of New York Times Co.

·???????

March 19, 2012 01:45 p.m.

Mark Thompson, the head of the BBC, said he will step down this fall. During his eight-year tenure he set in motion major plans to overhaul the network.

·???????

November 12, 2012 04:27 p.m.

The BBC cannot catch a break lately. The BBC’s director general stepped down over the weekend over a botched “Newsnight” report about an alleged pedophile – but not the one everyone has been talking about for the last month.???
??


On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 9:16 AM, John Halucha <john.halucha@...> wrote:
?

What is "the" right way to challenge historical revisionism in popular media?
Unwavering politeness with consistent clear evidence to support our case.
Skillful and strategic approaches.
Group and individual responses.
Great politeness, sensitivity and empathy.
Polite assertiveness.
Careful, measured thought.
Hoisting offenders with their own petard.
Challenging unfounded assertions and myths.
Condemning racism and bigotry.
Scorn.
Reductio ad absurdum.
Humour.
All of the above (though not necessarily in a single communication).
Even derision and sarcasm can be effective if wielded with a deft hand.

The worst approach to challenging historical revisionism is not challenging it at all.
Again, kudos to all here who sent responses to the BBC's latest debacle. None of you need lessons from me or anyone else about what is the best way or the worst way to react - the point is that you reacted.
Any frustration about this ongoing battle has my empathy. I have been challenging media misrepresentations since the 1980s, privately and publicly, and have often felt near despair that the tide could ever be turned. Sometimes I was disheartened because there seemed to be so few other voices. But it is clear that there are many people demanding accuracy today, as we see with the BBC example on this forum. It is also my perception that the tide is starting to slow down if not yet recede. There is still much work to be done, but it seems to me that our message is heard and is having an effect.
I concur that we should not?"seek to create a league table of suffering by nation or by historical events." Such tables have been promoted by some others for years, but we should seek an inclusive approach rather than promoting new and competing exclusivity. All people are human beings, all suffer when they are tortured and all are equally dead when murdered by tyrants of whatever stripe.?
That's why I often point out the broad dangers of revisionism and avoid asking for an apology specifically to the Polish community for misrepresentations. The offense is against history and humanity, not "just" Polish people.
I also agree that, "We should rather be supportive of and helpful towards Jewish and other groups who seek to ensure the world remembers their grievous loss. This is not only humane and compassionate but strategically the best approach."
Dividing people by ethnicity, race, religion, etc. was a Nazi method that deserves to be repudiated utterly. I don't understand how anyone hopes to fight discrimination by discriminating. There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination," only discrimination.
Jewish writers and commentators have been magnificently successful in sensitizing the wider community to such issues and can teach us a lot. They are indeed our allies in common cause. I frequently quote prominent Jewish sources that have eloquently denounced expressions such as "Polish death camps." I also use the "substitution" method to quickly make others recognize defamatory remarks or "jokes". When invited to read "Jewish" where "Polish" appears they usually see the bigotry instantly.

Bottom line: let's not waste our precious energy telling others how they used the wrong method to fight media misrepresentations. Rather than being constructive, such criticism risks silencing these precious few at a time that the cause can use all the help it can get. Short of destructive approaches such as bigotry, name-calling and ad hominem attacks, doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing.

John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada
Re: Hello .....

 

Single Mom Makes $89,844/Yr in Her Spare Time on The Computer Without Selling Anything


New map Kazakhstan

 

Hi all!

Due to emergence of new today data, I conceived a new idea.

The second wave of deportations April 13, 1940 (the family of so-called "enemies of people", almost all - members of men's families who were executed in "Katyn" (3 camps), shot in Minsk and Kiev prisons) was exclusively to the Northern Kazakhstan.

In the literature this wave of deportations reflects badly. It is now possible to fill in some gaps.

Maps of places in Kazakhstan, showing locations of deported (like Dr. Gurianov maps for Arkhangelsk and Vologda region) does not exist.

There is a proposal first to make the table, and then apply it to real map of Kazakhstan.

Many localities in Kazakhstan renamed - but they can be defined.

This would be an important contribution to common cause, especially for those who are just starting look for traces of their relatives.

I am one can not be done this work, group may be broken by regions (oblasts), - for a basis that data released today.

Stan from M.
Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Responding to inaccuracies: BBC, others

John Halucha
 

What is "the" right way to challenge historical revisionism in popular media?
Unwavering politeness with consistent clear evidence to support our case.
Skillful and strategic approaches.
Group and individual responses.
Great politeness, sensitivity and empathy.
Polite assertiveness.
Careful, measured thought.
Hoisting offenders with their own petard.
Challenging unfounded assertions and myths.
Condemning racism and bigotry.
Scorn.
Reductio ad absurdum.
Humour.
All of the above (though not necessarily in a single communication).
Even derision and sarcasm can be effective if wielded with a deft hand.

The worst approach to challenging historical revisionism is not challenging it at all.
Again, kudos to all here who sent responses to the BBC's latest debacle. None of you need lessons from me or anyone else about what is the best way or the worst way to react - the point is that you reacted.
Any frustration about this ongoing battle has my empathy. I have been challenging media misrepresentations since the 1980s, privately and publicly, and have often felt near despair that the tide could ever be turned. Sometimes I was disheartened because there seemed to be so few other voices. But it is clear that there are many people demanding accuracy today, as we see with the BBC example on this forum. It is also my perception that the tide is starting to slow down if not yet recede. There is still much work to be done, but it seems to me that our message is heard and is having an effect.
I concur that we should not?"seek to create a league table of suffering by nation or by historical events." Such tables have been promoted by some others for years, but we should seek an inclusive approach rather than promoting new and competing exclusivity. All people are human beings, all suffer when they are tortured and all are equally dead when murdered by tyrants of whatever stripe.?
That's why I often point out the broad dangers of revisionism and avoid asking for an apology specifically to the Polish community for misrepresentations. The offense is against history and humanity, not "just" Polish people.
I also agree that, "We should rather be supportive of and helpful towards Jewish and other groups who seek to ensure the world remembers their grievous loss. This is not only humane and compassionate but strategically the best approach."
Dividing people by ethnicity, race, religion, etc. was a Nazi method that deserves to be repudiated utterly. I don't understand how anyone hopes to fight discrimination by discriminating. There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination," only discrimination.
Jewish writers and commentators have been magnificently successful in sensitizing the wider community to such issues and can teach us a lot. They are indeed our allies in common cause. I frequently quote prominent Jewish sources that have eloquently denounced expressions such as "Polish death camps." I also use the "substitution" method to quickly make others recognize defamatory remarks or "jokes". When invited to read "Jewish" where "Polish" appears they usually see the bigotry instantly.

Bottom line: let's not waste our precious energy telling others how they used the wrong method to fight media misrepresentations. Rather than being constructive, such criticism risks silencing these precious few at a time that the cause can use all the help it can get. Short of destructive approaches such as bigotry, name-calling and ad hominem attacks, doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing.

John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada
7481 - 7500 of 63086