开云体育

Witam,

Give it a break. It is Christmas!!



Serdecznie Was pozdrawiamy
A znowu zima,
znowu sa Swieta,
a kazdy Swieta
dobrze pamieta,
wiec znowu
ode mnie
plyna zyczenia
zdrowia,
szczescia,
powodzenia.

Danuta z Kanady

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Antoni Kazimierski"
<ASKAZIMIERSKI@...> wrote:

I do not know if anyone tried to access Index Represionowanych at
Karta, but we cannot connect at the moment;

No problems now (Tue 16:47 GMT) from Germany or Poland.

Janusz

I do not know if anyone tried to access Index Represionowanych at Karta, but we cannot connect at the moment; just like it was last year.
We might, perhaps, get more added to the database this year.
antoni530

Thank you for your note and let me respond briefly.
1.聽聽聽聽 The project is about the inhabitants of Dolginovo, Minsk oblast. The town, in 1939, had roughly 3500 inhabitants (though some say 4000), about 2600 Jews and about 1200 ethnic Poles. There was a very small number of ethnic Russians (though many more in the area around the town. By 1946 there were not more than around 25 Jews and probably not more than 200 ethnic Poles (that is a rough estimate).
2.聽聽聽聽 I am generally only related to Rubins from Dolginovo so if you know of deportees from that town named Rubin I would be interested. I have two uncles who disappeared completely and are on no list of those killed by the Germans who may have been deported or shot by the Soviets.
3.聽聽聽聽 Yes you are quite correct on the mass deportations. I wonder who in Dolginovo was on that list. From what people told me, however, I am under the impression that a lot of the deportations of 聽ethnic Poles there was on an individual basis. 聽聽聽
4.聽聽聽聽 You are correct that it is expensive to do a big search by individual researcher but an individual family search when one knows the file to go to is not so costly if you are only searching in one archive, one set of files, in a time period of about one year for a single family name.
5.聽聽聽聽 Whatever one thinks of the present regime, there is material available. But I will know a lot more by around March and can advise you better then.
Again, I would be delighted to hear from people who lived or whose family lived in Dolginovo.

Professor Barry Rubin






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barry,
I am wondering about this project ; is it to do with RUBIN family or much wider about the inhabitants of Dolginovo, Minsk oblast?

As you know there were dozens of Rubin families deported to Siberia in 1940-1945 period, but not all from Dolginovo.
I think 100 or so names are recorded in Russian lists.
I do not think all these people have NKVD sentencing files as such; many , like Polish osadnicy were deported on a mass order/ instruction by Beria-Stalin. Their and many other documents can be obtained via the Polish Consulate in Minsk who get their information from Belarus Authorities directly.
Searching via Archives is very expensive as it involves an approved researcher and often without results.
In your case you seem to be looking for documentation of family connections going back to pre-communist - NKVD times.
Today Belarus Memorial, just like Memorial in Moscow have some access to special Belorussian Archives, but I am not sure if everything is released to them.
Have you any knowledge of another route to obtain more information than these Institutions get for us knowing the performance of present regime?
antoni530

About Operation Maczuga, mentioned in the previous post.

"This piece is my [John Dillon's] translation from "Dans la tourmente
de la guerre", by M. l'abb茅 Marcel Launay, his book has been available
in the bookshops around Falaise since the summer of 1946. I have his
written permission to use the translation. I do so now in the hope of
stimulating response from Polish soldiers who survived the action or
from their relatives to whom they spoke"

'Maczuga', closing the 'Falaise pocket', 19-21 August, 1944.

From: "Konrad K Swolkien" <konrad@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:48 AM
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: RE: {Spam?} [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Update on the story about Marian Wojcicki

Hi Group,

Apologies for not introducing myself earlier, but life seems very hectic in
the run up to Christmas.

Briefly, my family originates from the Wilno area. They were arrested by the
Lithuanian NKWD on 14th June 1941 and taken to the "Sowhoz" Rubcowka prison
camps in the Altajski region of Kazakhstan. My grandparents did not return,
but my father and uncle were released to join the Polish Army Corps in
Buzuluk USSR, and later transferred to Tobruk to fight the rest of the war
under British command. My father settled in Manchester, England after the
war and in his last years, instigated a claim for family land property lost
during the course of the war.

My reasons for joining the Kresy-Siberia group were primarily to garner
advice on my father's claim, but I have to admit that I am much moved by
some of your stories and pictures.

Enough!

With regard to Marian, I checked the Polish online telephone directory and
got a couple of results:


with the following entries

Wojewdztwo: Podkarpacie
Miasto: Lesko
Nazwisko: Wojcicki

Also, for those who have a rare surname, I found this site quite
interesting:



Enter a surname and the site profiles the frequency of the surname's
occurrence. The telephone directory can then be used to establish contact
details.

I hope somebody finds this of use.

Regards

Konrad Kazimierz Swolkie
_____

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
On Behalf Of Kenneth Fedzin
Sent: 12 December 2008 21:44
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: {Spam?} [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Update on the story about Marian
Wojcicki



Hi Stefan and Lucyna.. and Group

You beat me to posting the link to the latest article in the YEP
newspaper about Marian Wojcicki.

As ever, newspaper reports don't always say things how you want them
to, but nonetheless it's a decent report. I myself was not
interviewed because Martin Patterson passed on the information
uncovered so far. If I had been then for sure I would have mentioned
the K-S Group and the support from members. Thanks as always to
Antoni. I think there may be a further story at some point and will
make sure 'we' get a mention then.

If you've read the report you will have noticed that Marian was born
in Baligrod, pow. Lwow. Today Baligrod is in Poland, in the mountains
just south of Rzeszow, Przemysl and Sanok. Marian had a brother,
Adam, who I believe lived in Lesko at some time. A photo of two
children (Zdzisia and Liscia?) in Marian's possesions, 'to uncle' was
from Lesko in 1947. This I think would have been sent to Marian by
his brother Adam. As one of the children was a boy in 1947 and would
have had the Wojcicki surname, there is a good chance there may be
relatives in that area today.

I have written to the Red Cross regional office in Rzeszow to request
their help to trace Marian's relatives, but these requests naturally
take some time to get a reply.

Do any of our members have any family, friends, contacts, etc. in, or
around, Lesko area who may be willing to help check if there is a
Wojcicki family around there today?

Any help/advice greatly appreciated,

Regards,
Ken Fedzin
Dewsbury
England

Good morning to all,
you point out the address of your blog on Casamassima created by Zaneta Nawrot:
The lady is Polish and works with me in research on military and police Casamassima in Puglia.
The blog will also find photographs of the two exhibitions made on the 2nd Polish Corps, the military cemetery of the village of Casamassima, the hospital and the last two shacks that we would devote a museum, in addition to many other information.
Anyone can recognize a few photographs in the military or was in Casamassima, please write to me gianluca.vernole @ yahoo.it or Mrs. Nawrot: zenia555@...

Hoping to be of your liking, I wish you a good Christmas.

Hello Stefan,

I received 12 copies of the letter below initiated by you. Earlier I received multiple copies of a similar letter. Is something kaput with your transmission device or is the problem at my end?

Regards,

Konrad Wraczynski
Adelaide
Australia

I have blocked a gremlin somewhere in the system. Please do not respond any more.

Stefan

Sent from my BlackBerry庐 from Optus

Yes 20 - he said he turned the email add off



_____

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
On Behalf Of Elizabeth Olsson
Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2008 11:58 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives -
Belarus



I'm up to over 20!! But they seem to have stopped - cross my fingers!

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
Sweden
Memorial Gallery Administrator
< <>
siberia.org/photo.html>
<> siberia.org/photo.html

_____

From: Kresy-Siberia@ <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@
<mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Michelle Moffatt
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:11 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@ <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives -
Belarus

is everyone else receiving this message 10 + times?

I鈥檓 up to over 20!! But they seem to have stopped 鈥� cross my fingers!



pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
Sweden
Memorial Gallery Administrator
<>



_____

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of Michelle Moffatt
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:11 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives - Belarus



is everyone else receiving this message 10 + times?
----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
To: profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ; Kresy-Siberia@ <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:24 PM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives - Belarus

Thanks Barry

We look forward to getting your advice on how to get into the archives in
Belarus, which will be critical given the number of people researching
evidence for property claims in the next 6 months... and our desire to flesh
out information on this part of Kresy for the Virtual Museum.

So what is your secret? (e.g. do you hire local researchers?) - it may help
that you are not Polish Polish...

Stefan
--------------------------------------------------
From: "barry rubin" <profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:06 AM
To: "Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)"
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org> kresy-siberia.org>
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska" <aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com> com>; "Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>; "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>;
"Alexandra Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Subject: There are lots of documents in archives

No, materials are definitely available, though not easy it is very much
possible . It is remarkable how much there is on earlier years--1880s tax
records of Czarist Russia, a tax list imposed by the Bolsheviks when they
occupied the town during the Soviet-Polish war, and other things. This is
for Dolghinov and Vilna province. These are in the National Archives of
Belarus. Using this material plus archives in Vilna I traced my ancestors
back to 1700 or so.
There is also the Special National Archives in Minsk which are secret
police records. I have a researcher working there for me.
Here is one specific case: a Jewish wagon driver who worked for the
Polish army bringing food to the soldiers was tried by the NKVD and
sentenced to Siberia as an enemy. The protocol of the trial is in the
archives and was found by some of his descendants. I believe that many
people could find their deportation orders or the sentences of their
relatives. I will know more in a few months.
My question is whether there are in Warsaw or elsewhere Polish state
records for the 1920-1939 period.
Never give up searching for material because far more has been preserved
than we ever expected.
Consider this example: Leonard Smilovitsky, 鈥淏yelorussian Jewry and the
Doctor鈥檚 Plot鈥欌�� East European Affairs April 2007, pp. 39-52. In this
article, the author finds KGB records from the early 1950s which report
the views and activities of individual citizens of Belarus SSR by name
including their criticisms of the Stalinist regime!
Please feel free to post this note on the group if you want.

Professor Barry Rubin

Director, Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center
<> nter.org
Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal
<> rnal.com
Watch on the Middle East <> hemiddleeast.com
Editor Turkish Studies,
<> orld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t713636933%22



--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org> kresy-siberia.org> wrote:

From: Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org> kresy-siberia.org>
Subject: Re: Alexandra Weldon
To: profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska" <aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com> com>, "Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>, "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>,
"Alexandra Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 9:53 PM
Thanks - the popular wisdom is that Belarus is a
neo-Stalinist state that denies basic rights, and blocks
access to these archives. I hope you can tell us this is
untrue.

Stefan


--------------------------------------------------
From: "barry rubin"
<profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:04 AM
To: "Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)"
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org> kresy-siberia.org>
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska"
<aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com> com>; "Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>; "Lucyna Artymiuk"
<lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>; "Alexandra
Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Subject: Re: Alexandra Weldon

Thanks. I should also add that while my Polish is not

so good, you should look into Franciszek Sielicki. He was
born in Dolhinov and became a professor at the university of
Wroclaw. He wrote about eight books on Polish customs and
life in the lands annexed by the USSR. I am trying to get
someone to help me translate what he wrote about Dolhinov
which is quite a lot.

Regarding deportations, I understand that in the

Belarus archives there is a lot of material no one has ever
used, including the NKVD minutes on the trials of people
ordered deported.

Professor Barry Rubin

Director, Global Research in International Affairs

(GLORIA) Center <> nter.org

Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs

(MERIA) Journal <> rnal.com

Watch on the Middle East

<> hemiddleeast.com

Editor Turkish Studies,

<> orld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t713636933%22

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I got 2- - so told him that the cat must be seated on the enter key





_____

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
On Behalf Of Aneta HOFFMANN
Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2008 10:43 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives -
Belarus



me too :(

Aneta

From: Kresy-Siberia@ <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@
<mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Elizabeth Olsson
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:17 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@ <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives -
Belarus

What's going on here??? I just got 12 copies of this message!!

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
Sweden
Memorial Gallery Administrator
< <>
siberia.org/photo.html>
<> siberia.org/photo.html

_____

From: Kresy-Siberia@ <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:Kresy-Siberia@ <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:25 PM
To: profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com
<mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> ; Kresy-Siberia@
<mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives -
Belarus

Thanks Barry

We look forward to getting your advice on how to get into the archives in
Belarus, which will be critical given the number of people researching
evidence for property claims in the next 6 months... and our desire to flesh

out information on this part of Kresy for the Virtual Museum.

So what is your secret? (e.g. do you hire local researchers?) - it may help
that you are not Polish Polish...

Stefan
--------------------------------------------------
From: "barry rubin" <profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com>
yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:06 AM
To: "Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)"
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org>
kresy-siberia.org>
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska" <aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com> com>;
"Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>; "Lucyna Artymiuk"
<lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>;
"Alexandra Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Subject: There are lots of documents in archives

No, materials are definitely available, though not easy it is very much
possible . It is remarkable how much there is on earlier years--1880s tax
records of Czarist Russia, a tax list imposed by the Bolsheviks when they
occupied the town during the Soviet-Polish war, and other things. This is
for Dolghinov and Vilna province. These are in the National Archives of
Belarus. Using this material plus archives in Vilna I traced my ancestors
back to 1700 or so.
There is also the Special National Archives in Minsk which are secret
police records. I have a researcher working there for me.
Here is one specific case: a Jewish wagon driver who worked for the
Polish army bringing food to the soldiers was tried by the NKVD and
sentenced to Siberia as an enemy. The protocol of the trial is in the
archives and was found by some of his descendants. I believe that many
people could find their deportation orders or the sentences of their
relatives. I will know more in a few months.
My question is whether there are in Warsaw or elsewhere Polish state
records for the 1920-1939 period.
Never give up searching for material because far more has been preserved
than we ever expected.
Consider this example: Leonard Smilovitsky, "Byelorussian Jewry and the
Doctor's Plot'' East European Affairs April 2007, pp. 39-52. In this
article, the author finds KGB records from the early 1950s which report
the views and activities of individual citizens of Belarus SSR by name
including their criticisms of the Stalinist regime!
Please feel free to post this note on the group if you want.

Professor Barry Rubin

Director, Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center
< <>

nter.org> nter.org

Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal
< <>

rnal.com> rnal.com

Watch on the Middle East <

<> hemiddleeast.com> hemiddleeast.com

Editor Turkish Studies,
<

<>
orld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t713636933%22>
orld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t713636933%22

--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org>

kresy-siberia.org> wrote:

From: Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org>

kresy-siberia.org>

Subject: Re: Alexandra Weldon
To: profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska" <aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com>

com>, "Lynda Kraar"

<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>, "Lucyna Artymiuk"

<lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>,

"Alexandra Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 9:53 PM
Thanks - the popular wisdom is that Belarus is a
neo-Stalinist state that denies basic rights, and blocks
access to these archives. I hope you can tell us this is
untrue.

Stefan


--------------------------------------------------
From: "barry rubin"
<profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:04 AM
To: "Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)"
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org>

kresy-siberia.org>

Cc: "Aneta Naszynska"
<aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com> com>; "Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>; "Lucyna Artymiuk"
<lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>;

"Alexandra

Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Subject: Re: Alexandra Weldon

Thanks. I should also add that while my Polish is not

so good, you should look into Franciszek Sielicki. He was
born in Dolhinov and became a professor at the university of
Wroclaw. He wrote about eight books on Polish customs and
life in the lands annexed by the USSR. I am trying to get
someone to help me translate what he wrote about Dolhinov
which is quite a lot.

Regarding deportations, I understand that in the

Belarus archives there is a lot of material no one has ever
used, including the NKVD minutes on the trials of people
ordered deported.

Professor Barry Rubin

Director, Global Research in International Affairs

(GLORIA) Center <

<> nter.org> nter.org

Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs

(MERIA) Journal <

<> rnal.com> rnal.com

Watch on the Middle East

<

<> hemiddleeast.com> hemiddleeast.com

Editor Turkish Studies,

<

<>
orld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t713636933%22>
orld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t713636933%22







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008
11:23 AM

is everyone else receiving this message 10 + times?

me too :(



Aneta



From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Olsson
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:17 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives - Belarus



What鈥檚 going on here??? I just got 12 copies of this message!!

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
Sweden
Memorial Gallery Administrator
<>

_____

From: Kresy-Siberia@... <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@... <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:25 PM
To: profbarryrubin@... <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> ; Kresy-Siberia@... <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: There are lots of documents in archives - Belarus

Thanks Barry

We look forward to getting your advice on how to get into the archives in
Belarus, which will be critical given the number of people researching
evidence for property claims in the next 6 months... and our desire to flesh
out information on this part of Kresy for the Virtual Museum.

So what is your secret? (e.g. do you hire local researchers?) - it may help
that you are not Polish Polish...

Stefan
--------------------------------------------------
From: "barry rubin" <profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:06 AM
To: "Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)"
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org> kresy-siberia.org>
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska" <aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com> com>; "Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>; "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>;
"Alexandra Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Subject: There are lots of documents in archives

No, materials are definitely available, though not easy it is very much
possible . It is remarkable how much there is on earlier years--1880s tax
records of Czarist Russia, a tax list imposed by the Bolsheviks when they
occupied the town during the Soviet-Polish war, and other things. This is
for Dolghinov and Vilna province. These are in the National Archives of
Belarus. Using this material plus archives in Vilna I traced my ancestors
back to 1700 or so.
There is also the Special National Archives in Minsk which are secret
police records. I have a researcher working there for me.
Here is one specific case: a Jewish wagon driver who worked for the
Polish army bringing food to the soldiers was tried by the NKVD and
sentenced to Siberia as an enemy. The protocol of the trial is in the
archives and was found by some of his descendants. I believe that many
people could find their deportation orders or the sentences of their
relatives. I will know more in a few months.
My question is whether there are in Warsaw or elsewhere Polish state
records for the 1920-1939 period.
Never give up searching for material because far more has been preserved
than we ever expected.
Consider this example: Leonard Smilovitsky, 鈥淏yelorussian Jewry and the
Doctor鈥檚 Plot鈥欌�� East European Affairs April 2007, pp. 39-52. In this
article, the author finds KGB records from the early 1950s which report
the views and activities of individual citizens of Belarus SSR by name
including their criticisms of the Stalinist regime!
Please feel free to post this note on the group if you want.

Professor Barry Rubin

Director, Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center
<> nter.org
Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal
<> rnal.com
Watch on the Middle East <> hemiddleeast.com
Editor Turkish Studies,
<> orld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t713636933%22



--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org> kresy-siberia.org> wrote:

From: Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org> kresy-siberia.org>
Subject: Re: Alexandra Weldon
To: profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska" <aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com> com>, "Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>, "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>,
"Alexandra Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 9:53 PM
Thanks - the popular wisdom is that Belarus is a
neo-Stalinist state that denies basic rights, and blocks
access to these archives. I hope you can tell us this is
untrue.

Stefan


--------------------------------------------------
From: "barry rubin"
<profbarryrubin@ <mailto:profbarryrubin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:04 AM
To: "Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)"
<stefan.wisniowski@ <mailto:stefan.wisniowski%40kresy-siberia.org> kresy-siberia.org>
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska"
<aneta@naszynska. <mailto:aneta%40naszynska.com> com>; "Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@Kraar. <mailto:Lynda%40Kraar.com> com>; "Lucyna Artymiuk"
<lucyna.artymiuk@ <mailto:lucyna.artymiuk%40bigpond.com> bigpond.com>; "Alexandra
Weldon" <akweldon@aol. <mailto:akweldon%40aol.com> com>
Subject: Re: Alexandra Weldon

Thanks. I should also add that while my Polish is not

so good, you should look into Franciszek Sielicki. He was
born in Dolhinov and became a professor at the university of
Wroclaw. He wrote about eight books on Polish customs and
life in the lands annexed by the USSR. I am trying to get
someone to help me translate what he wrote about Dolhinov
which is quite a lot.

Regarding deportations, I understand that in the

Belarus archives there is a lot of material no one has ever
used, including the NKVD minutes on the trials of people
ordered deported.

Professor Barry Rubin

Director, Global Research in International Affairs

(GLORIA) Center <> nter.org

Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs

(MERIA) Journal <> rnal.com

Watch on the Middle East

<> hemiddleeast.com

Editor Turkish Studies,

<> orld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t713636933%22

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Our Polish Comrades: Army, Part 29


January 1, 2000 <> ,
by Terry Copp
<>


Canadians have a particularly close relationship with the Polish Armoured
Division that fought as part of the 1st Canadian Army throughout much of WW
II. Many Polish veterans, unwilling to return to their country while it was
under Soviet control, settled in Canada and this strengthened the
connection.

The Polish Armd. Div. was formed out of elements of the army that escaped
from Poland and reassembled in France during the winter of 1939-40. Polish
troops, serving under French command, fought in Norway and in the Battle of
France.

When Paris was declared an open city and rumours of an imminent surrender
reached the Polish commander, General Wladyslaw Sikorski, all units were
ordered to try to escape to Britain. Gen. Stanislaw Maczek's 10th Mechanical
Cavalry Brigade, which became the core of the Polish Armd. Div., lost three
quarters of its tanks in battle with the Germans before disengaging and
withdrawing toward the coast. Maczek donned a disguise and reached Scotland
via North Africa.

Polish soldiers arriving in England in the aftermath of the Dunkirk
evacuation in 1940 were quickly dispatched to Scotland where they became a
colourful and welcome part of the wartime scene. A large number of officers,
but relatively few other ranks, made it to Britain so plans to recruit Poles
from North America were implemented. Units remained under strength until
Poles released from Soviet prisoner of war camps were allowed to form a
Polish corps to fight in Italy or join their comrades in Scotland.

While the Polish army regrouped and trained, veterans of the Polish air
force and navy who reached Britain were plunged into the conflict. Polish
squadrons played a distinguished role in the Battle of Britain and Poles
made up 12 per cent of the effective strength of Fighter Command during the
critical month of September 1940. Polish destroyers, sent to join the
British fleet at the outbreak of the war, assisted in the Dunkirk evacuation
and carried out escort work as part of the Royal Navy's 5th Destroyer
Flotilla.

The Polish Armd. Div. reached its authorized strength in 1944, but it was
evident it would enter battle without enough reinforcements available to
replace casualties.

The division was organized along standard British lines with armoured and
infantry brigades, each of three battalions, together with reconnaissance,
artillery and anti-tank regiments, plus a motorized infantry battalion;
14,000 men and 240 tanks.

The Polish Armd. Div. arrived in France on the last day of July, which was
also the first day of the 1944 Warsaw uprising. The Polish Home Army seized
control of the city on the assumption that the Soviet Army, whose spearheads
were just a few miles away, would maintain pressure and force a general
German retreat. It quickly became evident that Stalin was quite prepared to
let the Germans destroy Warsaw and the anti-communist home army. On Aug. 3,
the guns of the Red Army fell silent. Appeals from Churchill to intervene or
at least allow Allied aircraft to deliver supplies to the besieged
city-using Soviet controlled airfields-were denied with Stalin insisting
that "the Soviet government does not wish to associate itself either
directly or indirectly with the adventure in Warsaw."

The British press and the BBC carried regular bulletins from Warsaw as well
as commentary on the situation. For the men of the Polish Armd. Div. the
constant question was: "What news of Warsaw?"

First Cdn. Army was told that the Polish Armd. Div. would come under command
in time for Operation Totalize, set for Aug. 8, 1944. The Poles had just
arrived in Normandy and so there was little time to get acquainted.
Lieutenant-General Guy Simonds met Maczek and his staff officers for the
first time on Aug. 4 and had one more brief discussion with them before
Totalize began. The Poles used British liaison officers to improve
communications, but Simonds quickly learned that the Poles could not be
controlled in the same way a British or Canadian division could be.

There was more than a language barrier at work. The Canadian historian and
armoured theorist Roman Jaramowcyz argues that Maczek was "a modern tank
officer" who found Simonds' operational plans too restrictive. On the eve of
Totalize, Maczek protested that the frontage of less than a 1,000 yards
allowed no room for manoeuvre and would give German anti-tank guns
concentrated fields of fire. Simonds refused to alter his plans, insisting
that the armour could only function in the open country south of Caen in a
set-piece battle with full air and artillery support.

Maczek's fears were realized on the afternoon of Aug. 8 when his leading
armoured regiment lost 26 tanks in a few minutes. The Germans, firing from
the small woods that dotted the landscape, caught the Poles in a deadly
crossfire. This bottled up elements of the division that were supposed to
maintain the momentum of the attack. The Polish Armd. Div. was also hampered
by the disastrous "short bombing" of the United States 8th Air Force that
caused scores of casualties and the loss of ammunition and equipment.

By nightfall, the Polish had made little progress and orders to continue
could not be carried out. The next morning the division launched an attack
on a broader front and experienced its first real success.

However, 12th SS battle groups quickly counterattacked and destroyed scores
of the flimsy Sherman tanks. Elements of the Polish Armd. Div. were less
than a mile from Point 140 where the British Columbia and Algonquin
regiments were being systematically destroyed. However, the Poles could not
advance further.

It is impossible to exaggerate the inadequacy of Allied armour in such
situations. The great strengths of the Sherman tank were its mechanical
reliability and speed, the great weaknesses were a high profile, armour
plate so thin it could easily be penetrated by any German anti-tank gun and
a 75-mm main gun that was ineffective at ranges beyond 500 yards.

After Operation Totalize, the Poles, who had lost 66 tanks, hastened to copy
the experiments of the more experienced regiments that had begun to wire and
weld additional tank tracks to their hulls in the hope of deflecting hits
and avoiding destruction.

Simonds was either unaware of the depth of this problem or determined to
ignore it. As a corps commander he could not allow his men to focus on
reasons for failure. He had to plan for success and employ the resources
available to him. At a commanders conference held just before launching his
second armoured Blitzkrieg-Operation Tractable-Simonds was highly critical
of the performance of both armoured divisions. He accused them of every
known sin under the sun, including lack of drive. He was especially
disappointed in the Poles and for Tractable, the massive daylight attack of
Aug. 14, he paired the veteran 2nd Cdn. Armd. Bde. with 4th Div. This left
the Polish Armd. Div. to form "a firm base."

The decision gave the Poles time to recover from their first battle and from
the ordeal of a second short bombing-this time by the Royal Canadian Air
Force-that inflicted more than 200 casualties.

When the order to cross the River Dives and advance toward Trun was received
on Aug.15, the Polish Armd. Div. was ideally situated to launch an end run
around the main enemy resistance.

Maczek embraced the new orders that were well suited to his ideas about
employing an armoured division. The Polish Armd. Div. was organized into
battle groups and quickly formed a bridgehead across the Dives.

The Polish and Canadian advance to Trun was slowed by battle groups of the
85th, 21st and 12th SS divisions, which were busy holding the northern edge
of the Falaise Pocket. Simonds decided to leave Trun to 4th Armd. and
ordered Maczek to take Chambois and link up with the Americans in closing
the gap.

The Poles, after two days of continuous combat, were to work their way
across the grain of some of the most rugged terrain in Normandy. The hills
in this beautiful part of France rise steeply from the river valleys and the
only good roads run north-south.

Maczek decided to send one battle group to Chambois and then block the exits
by seizing the high ground at Mount Ormel-Coudehard, a hill the Poles would
come to call the Maczuga or mace after its appearance on the contour maps.

Unfortunately the commander of the regiment who was to lead the advance to
Chambois did not communicate his intentions clearly to the guide supplied by
the French resistance. The Koszutski battle group moved due east to a
village called Les Champeaux astride the main Trun-Vimoutiers highway, the
German escape route to the River Seine. This small force, one armoured
regiment and an infantry battalion, had penetrated deep into the German rear
areas where it was repeatedly attacked by Royal Air Force Spitfires and
Typhoons whose pilots had been briefed to bomb and strafe all movement in an
area known to be occupied by the enemy. Despite casualties from friendly
fire, the battle group disrupted the German retreat and helped to stem the
counterattack by 9th SS Panzer Div.

While Koszutski's men fought their isolated battle, the rest of the division
worked its way to Chambois and the Maczuga.

On the afternoon of Aug. 19, while Canadians were fighting for control of
St-Lambert-sur-Dives, the Polish 10th Dragoons in "heavy hand-to-hand
battles" fought its way into Chambois and linked up with American infantry
from 90th Div. On the maps at corps and army headquarters the gap could now
be marked closed, but on the ground exhausted Polish, Canadian and American
soldiers had to cope with an enemy that still included thousands of men
determined to break the ring and fight their way north.

During the early hours of Aug. 20, senior German officers inside the pocket
set about organizing groups of men for one last attempt at a breakout to
coincide with a two-pronged attack by II SS Panzer Corps from the north. The
Luftwaffe made a major effort to drop supplies and ammunition and while
little of it landed within German lines the operation helped morale. Lead
groups crossed the Dives during the night, but the main breakout occurred
shortly after dawn when thousands of shouting desperate men surged forward.

Once across the river and the Trun-Chambois highway, the Germans were faced
with the Polish positions on the Maczuga.

The main road ran over the saddle of the ridge between the two Point 262s
held by the Poles. Isolated bands of German soldiers moved forward under
constant artillery and machine-gun fire.

On the crest of Mount Ormel, Captain Pierre Seveigny, the forward
observation officer for 4th Medium Regt., directed the fire of the 4.5-inch
guns that sent 100-pound shells crashing down on the enemy. The battle that
raged around Mount Ormel reminded one Pole of "medieval days, when the
defence of the battlefield was organized by placing camps in a tight
quadrangle. The densely wooded hills were extemely difficult for
observation. As a result.German tanks could approach unnoticed, almost up to
our positions. This was demonstrated by a Panther and a Sherman facing one
another barrel to barrel at a distance of a few metres, both burned.. The
Maczuga and Chambois were practically cut off.. All attempts to evacuate our
wounded failed."

There were German prisoners everywhere. Some could be handed over to the
Americans, but they, too, were cut off when the enemy recaptured the road
into Chambois. Simonds ordered the Canadians to break through to the Poles
and the Grenadier Guards. With their machine-guns firing almost
continuously, they opened up a line of communication allowing ammunition,
food and medical supplies to reach the Maczuga. The British Columbia Regt.
broke through to the southern spur of Mount Ormel on the evening of Aug. 21,
while a battle group of 1st Hussars tanks and Highland Light Infantry used a
full artillery barrage to help them advance toward Chambois. "Hours of
bloody fighting" were required to reach the village, but by nightfall the
gap was finally closed.

The Poles alone captured 6,000 prisoners and destroyed 70 tanks, 500
vehicles and more than 100 artillery pieces. Their own losses in the four
days were 1,400 killed and wounded. The roads through Trun, Chambois and
St-Lambert were lined with the wreckage of two German armies. Operational
research teams counted 3,043 vehicles, including 187 tanks and
self-propelled guns in the area they called the Shambles. Most had been
destroyed by artillery and anti-tank guns or had been abandoned by their
crews when forward movement became impossible.

The Allies had won a very great victory and could now pursue the broken
remnants of the Wehrmacht and SS back to Germany.

If anyone had prophesied that the German army in the west would be destroyed
less than three months after the Normandy invasion began on June 6, 1944,
they would have been dismissed as a dreamer. With the dream fulfilled,
generals, journalists and historians began to argue that the victory was
incomplete. They sought to second- guess the decisions that delayed the
closing of the gap, but let us leave such speculation to the armchair
experts. We should, instead, celebrate the heroism, the endurance and the
achievement of the Allied soldiers who won the battle.

And let us be sure and remember the Polish soldiers who fought with such
courage while their countrymen and capital city were systematically
destroyed. They are not forgotten in Normandy where the Polish War Cemetery
is maintained by the French government and the memorial museum on the crest
of the Maczuga is maintained and staffed by the citizens of nearby villages.

I think we all did, when I deleted all but one, seven came back?
�
Carol

Thanks Barry

We look forward to getting your advice on how to get into the archives in Belarus, which will be critical given the number of people researching evidence for property claims in the next 6 months... and our desire to flesh out information on this part of Kresy for the Virtual Museum.

So what is your secret? (e.g. do you hire local researchers?) - it may help that you are not Polish Polish...

Stefan
--------------------------------------------------
From: "barry rubin" <profbarryrubin@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:06 AM
To: "Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)" <stefan.wisniowski@...>
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska" <aneta@...>; "Lynda Kraar" <Lynda@...>; "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@...>; "Alexandra Weldon" <akweldon@...>
Subject: There are lots of documents in archives

No, materials are definitely available, though not easy it is very much possible . It is remarkable how much there is on earlier years--1880s tax records of Czarist Russia, a tax list imposed by the Bolsheviks when they occupied the town during the Soviet-Polish war, and other things. This is for Dolghinov and Vilna province. These are in the National Archives of Belarus. Using this material plus archives in Vilna I traced my ancestors back to 1700 or so.
There is also the Special National Archives in Minsk which are secret police records. I have a researcher working there for me.
Here is one specific case: a Jewish wagon driver who worked for the Polish army bringing food to the soldiers was tried by the NKVD and sentenced to Siberia as an enemy. The protocol of the trial is in the archives and was found by some of his descendants. I believe that many people could find their deportation orders or the sentences of their relatives. I will know more in a few months.
My question is whether there are in Warsaw or elsewhere Polish state records for the 1920-1939 period.
Never give up searching for material because far more has been preserved than we ever expected.
Consider this example: Leonard Smilovitsky, 鈥淏yelorussian Jewry and the Doctor鈥檚 Plot鈥欌�� East European Affairs April 2007, pp. 39-52. In this article, the author finds KGB records from the early 1950s which report the views and activities of individual citizens of Belarus SSR by name including their criticisms of the Stalinist regime!
Please feel free to post this note on the group if you want.

Professor Barry Rubin

Director, Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center
Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal
Watch on the Middle East
Editor Turkish Studies,



--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia) <stefan.wisniowski@...> wrote:

From: Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia) <stefan.wisniowski@...>
Subject: Re: Alexandra Weldon
To: profbarryrubin@...
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska" <aneta@...>, "Lynda Kraar" <Lynda@...>, "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@...>, "Alexandra Weldon" <akweldon@...>
Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 9:53 PM
Thanks - the popular wisdom is that Belarus is a
neo-Stalinist state that denies basic rights, and blocks
access to these archives. I hope you can tell us this is
untrue.

Stefan


--------------------------------------------------
From: "barry rubin"
<profbarryrubin@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:04 AM
To: "Stefan Wisniowski (Kresy-Siberia)"
<stefan.wisniowski@...>
Cc: "Aneta Naszynska"
<aneta@...>; "Lynda Kraar"
<Lynda@...>; "Lucyna Artymiuk"
<lucyna.artymiuk@...>; "Alexandra
Weldon" <akweldon@...>
Subject: Re: Alexandra Weldon

Thanks. I should also add that while my Polish is not

so good, you should look into Franciszek Sielicki. He was
born in Dolhinov and became a professor at the university of
Wroclaw. He wrote about eight books on Polish customs and
life in the lands annexed by the USSR. I am trying to get
someone to help me translate what he wrote about Dolhinov
which is quite a lot.

Regarding deportations, I understand that in the

Belarus archives there is a lot of material no one has ever
used, including the NKVD minutes on the trials of people
ordered deported.

Professor Barry Rubin

Director, Global Research in International Affairs

(GLORIA) Center

Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs

(MERIA) Journal

Watch on the Middle East

Editor Turkish Studies,

Yes you are exactly right about the town of which I'm speaking. I would be very grateful to be put in touch with those from the town on the group, to hear and to tell their stories. I also believe that there are a lot of archival materials available today聽that would include the Soviet "trials" at which people were sentenced to deportations. Please do write me directly or put a note on the group so I can contact you. And thanks for your response. Professor Barry Rubin

Barry,
You do not say which Dolginov you are dealing with; there are more than one in Belarus.
I assume it might be the one nearest to Vileyka; if so we have some members of Kresy Group who come from this little place just as some present day dignitaries in Izrael, as I recall.
antoni530