Halina,

I suppose this military information is also available for anyone who was in the Polish army
before WW2? Did you have to write in Polish for the information?


Barbara Davoust,
Toulouse, France

You need to provide the relative's father's and mother's names, date and place of birth, and, if
possible, the name of the military units in which the relative served. They will mail to you paper
copies of all records found in the serviceman's records so you also need togive themyour
address. The service is free but takes time. They are understaffed. Their response to my family
took 4-5 months.

You can also go to and check out the Haller's Army database (not all
recruits are listed) or read up on how to do other military searches.

Cordially,

Halina Trevelyan
California, USA

*

开云体育

I copied this from a review of A Question of Honor which was written by Chris Patsilelis for the Houston Chronicle.

"Finally, A Question of Honor closely examines -- maybe in too much detail -- the cynical atmosphere in which Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt operated. Churchill promised Poland protection from its enemies and promised to reinstate the country as an independent democracy after the war. Britain reneged on both counts."

"Roosevelt paid only lip service to keeping Poland free. According to the authors, he was interested in Poland's postwar fate only insofar as it "affected his alliance with Stalin and his chances in the next presidential election." In the end political expediency prevailed and Poland was consigned to the tender mercies of Stalin's invading troops."

Eve Jesionka Jankowicz

开云体育

I would also love a copy of the book if it becomes available. Please let me
know.
Even though I didn't understand the captions, I got the jest of the
sketches. In fact, they bring back memories of some of the conversations I
had with my father about the Anders Army.

Amy Remmert
Kalamazoo MI
acremmert@...

For any of you in the U.S. who are interested in the book "White Eagle, Red
Star", I have just ordered from a local book store. It appears that the
Norman Davies book is in still in print. This dealer does not deal in used
books. I don't know the name of the publisher but as soon as I get it I
would be happy to share the information.

Amy Remmert
Kalamazoo MI
acremmert@...

Anne Kaczanowski:

Is the book still available to buy? Anyone know?

i'm not sure. it's been published 3 times so far (twice in 1969 and
again in 1994 - by Caldra House) with the 60th anniversary of monte
cassino approaching it may see a fourth edition. i have forwarded
the relevant contact details to anne and if she has any joy in
tracking down a copy perhaps she could let us know the best way to go
about it.

Romuald:

I would volunteer to help to provide translations for the

illustrations and explanatory comments.

sounds good to me. i haven't heard back from her as yet, but hela
danielczuk may be helping me out with the foreword translation and
possibly some of the text from the illustrations - but your offer of
a translation and explanatory comments is also very much welcome!
i'll have to spend some time thinking about how to best fit it in to
what's up already, but by all means if you've got the time to start
work on it then that's great. email me directly if you'd like me to
supply you with a text file of the original polish subtitles.

regards.

waldemar werbel.
stratford upon avon. UK.

Anne Kaczanowski:

Is the book still available to buy? Anyone know?

i'm not sure. it's been published 3 times so far (twice in 1969 and
again in 1994 - by Caldra House) with the 60th anniversary of monte
cassino approaching it may see a fourth edition. i have forwarded
the relevant contact details to anne and if she has any joy in
tracking down a copy perhaps she could let us know the best way to go
about it.

Romuald:

I would volunteer to help to provide translations for the

illustrations and explanatory comments.

sounds good to me. i haven't heard back from her as yet, but hela
danielczuk may be helping me out with the foreword translation and
possibly some of the text from the illustrations - but your offer of
a translation and explanatory comments is also very much welcome!
i'll have to spend some time thinking about how to best fit it in to
what's up already, but by all means if you've got the time to start
work on it then that's great. email me directly if you'd like me to
supply you with a text file of the original polish subtitles.

regards.

waldemar werbel.
stratford upon avon. UK.

开云体育

I looked at the site several times and thoroughly enjoyed it. It must be translated to be fully understood by the English - only speaking members of the Group. I think, a commentary should be added explaining what the illustrations mean. Although "one picture is better than 100 words", a lot could be added to explain the sense of the illustrations.? For example, for somebody who was not in the Corps, the illustration about River Sangro does not mean a lot. The same about courses after the war. Or battle for Ancona. Not many people know that it was the great strategy of Gen Anders to surround Ancona and the real battle was at Osimo and Castelfidardo. Germans were taken by surprise and supreme victory was achieved with minimal loses. I would volunteer to help to provide translations for the illustrations and explanatory comments. Once again, thanks a lot.
Romuald
USA Virginia??????

----- Original Message -----
From: waldemar werbel
Date: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:26 pm
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Dzieje 2go Korpusu... Inaczej!

> Hello,
>
> I have recently put up a site: "Dzieje 2go Korpusu...
> Inaczej!"? the site features contemporary caricature
> illustrations by Birmingham based veteran of 3DSK
> Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment, Mieczyslaw
> Kuczynski. They offer an alternative and light-hearted
> perspective on the adventures of the 2nd Corps.
> Historically accurate and very well drawn, I'm sure
> many of you will find these drawings interesting.? The
> address is:
>
>
>
> The gallery of illustrations is complete, but some
> areas of the site are still under construction, indeed
> if any of you can help with contributions to these
> areas then that would be great.? At the moment you
> need to be bi-lingual (English/Polish) to understand
> the site in its entirety: the first thing I'd like to
> concentrate on is a translation from the Polish into
> English, I dare say I could muddle through it myself,
> but if anyone feels that they can help out then that
> would be much appreciated.
>
> Take care.
>
> --
> Waldemar Werbel.
> Stratford-upon-Avon. UK.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
> your friends today! Download Messenger Now
>
>
> *
> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
> citizens deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during
> World War Two."
> *
> Discussion site :
> Gallery (photos, documents) :
> Film and info :
>
> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
> saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
> Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
> *
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> -~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
> Canada.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> --~->
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>
>
>
>
>



*
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
*
Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :
*
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
*

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  
  ?
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
  ?
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.

Halina's point is well taken, and the article will not be removed. However, we
would ideally footnote the article posting with a statement that therse reports
were questionable (as per Roman's point). This would be consistent with our
purpose of research into these events. However, we are currently challenged
to make any changes to our web materials as we are between webmasters. I
invite Roman to composse an appropriate and brief footnote to be added to
the link when we are web-capable again.
Regards
Stefan Wisniowski


--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "hjtrevelyan" <hjtrevelyan@s...>
wrote:

The significance of the article is vested in the fact that the
article in question is part of A Forgotten Odyssey's 'Historical
Newspaper Archives.' It did appear in a Canadian source on
September 22, 1939. As an archived 1939 article, it is not subject
to revision in 2004. Of course, people are free to have their own
opinions and views on the matter.
[...]
Cordially,
Halina T.
California, USA

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "romed46" <romed46@y...> wrote:

On A Forgotten Odyssey site there is a Link to Kresy (item 4) from
the Newspaper-The Holocaust, what appears to be a copy of an article
in the "Daily Colonist" of Victoria, Canada, titled "Murderous Bands
of Ukrainian Terrorists Slay Polish Refugees", dated Sept.21,1939.
In the last paragraph it states "The Ukrainians took possesion of
Lwow,Stryj and Stanislawow,reports reaching the frontier said, and
for a time set up their own government."
I was born and lived my first 20 years in Stryj, and was there during
September 1939.
In my opinion, it is a gross mis-information and should not be
disseminated on A Forgotten Odyssey.

I looked at the site several times and thoroughly enjoyed it. It must be translated to be fully understood by the English - only speaking members of the Group. I think, a commentary should be added explaining what the illustrations mean. Although "one picture is better than 100 words", a lot could be added to explain the sense of the illustrations. For example, for somebody who was not in the Corps, the illustration about River Sangro does not mean a lot. The same about courses after the war. Or battle for Ancona. Not many people know that it was the great strategy of Gen Anders to surround Ancona and the real battle was at Osimo and Castelfidardo. Germans were taken by surprise and supreme victory was achieved with minimal loses. I would volunteer to help to provide translations for the illustrations and explanatory comments. Once again, thanks a lot.
Romuald
USA Virginia

I can say the same thing, being an ex squaddie.
The army functions well when it can laugh and joke, it's amazing what will make you laugh when you're cold, wet and miserable
The British Army terminology is "if you can't take the joke you shouldn't have joined"

Paul
At 13:44 27/01/2004, you wrote:

It's amazing how these soldiers maintained a sense of humor under
their conditions.? The humor itself reminds me of "Good Soldier
Schweik" by Jaroslav Hasek.? Thank you for posting it.
Bob


--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., waldemar werbel
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have recently put up a site: "Dzieje 2go Korpusu...
> Inaczej!"? the site features contemporary caricature
> illustrations by Birmingham based veteran of 3DSK
> Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment, Mieczyslaw
> Kuczynski. They offer an alternative and light-hearted
> perspective on the adventures of the 2nd Corps.
> Historically accurate and very well drawn, I'm sure
> many of you will find these drawings interesting.? The
> address is:
>
>
>
> The gallery of illustrations is complete, but some
> areas of the site are still under construction, indeed
> if any of you can help with contributions to these
> areas then that would be great.? At the moment you
> need to be bi-lingual (English/Polish) to understand
> the site in its entirety: the first thing I'd like to
> concentrate on is a translation from the Polish into
> English, I dare say I could muddle through it myself,
> but if anyone feels that they can help out then that
> would be much appreciated.
>
> Take care.
>
> --
> Waldemar Werbel.
> Stratford-upon-Avon. UK.
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Havers
Director
PMH Wines Ltd
22 Kingsmead
Farnborough
Hants, GU14 7RT
(00 44) (0) 1252 544880
Life's too short for boring wine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's amazing how these soldiers maintained a sense of humor under
their conditions. The humor itself reminds me of "Good Soldier
Schweik" by Jaroslav Hasek. Thank you for posting it.
Bob


--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., waldemar werbel <wwerbel@y...>
wrote:

Hello,

I have recently put up a site: "Dzieje 2go Korpusu...
Inaczej!" the site features contemporary caricature
illustrations by Birmingham based veteran of 3DSK
Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment, Mieczyslaw
Kuczynski. They offer an alternative and light-hearted
perspective on the adventures of the 2nd Corps.
Historically accurate and very well drawn, I'm sure
many of you will find these drawings interesting. The
address is:



The gallery of illustrations is complete, but some
areas of the site are still under construction, indeed
if any of you can help with contributions to these
areas then that would be great. At the moment you
need to be bi-lingual (English/Polish) to understand
the site in its entirety: the first thing I'd like to
concentrate on is a translation from the Polish into
English, I dare say I could muddle through it myself,
but if anyone feels that they can help out then that
would be much appreciated.

Take care.

--
Waldemar Werbel.
Stratford-upon-Avon. UK.

______________________________________________________________________
__

Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
your friends today! Download Messenger Now

To All,
I was asked to furnish information by one of the members regarding
the life of a CD.

Here is some infromation on the possible life of a CD. Note that
based on how they are manufacturered material used and how they are
written and stored the lifetime of a CD can vary from a few years to
100-200 years.

The magazine of the Melbourne PC User Group
How Long Will a CD-R Last?
Gordon Woolf

How good are CD-R discs? How long will they last? Will they be
readable in three months, three years, 30 years?

When I read several reports of CD-R discs not being readable a few
months after they were written, I thought it time to find out more.

It seemed scary: warnings from seemingly reputable sources. A lot
depends on how you treat the CDs and even more on the quality of your
initial recording, but there are discs around which are more likely
to fail than to work - one survey showed that six out of 10 discs can
fail if you select the wrong brands.

As one CD duplication service states: "It is not advisable to leave a
CD-R upside down in bright light or the sun for a long time" but most
failed backups are not satisfactorily written in the first place.
There are so many things which can go wrong with a recording that
manufacturers of poor quality discs may get away with it for a long
time.

If you can write well to a good CD, it will probably last. But we've
probably all heard of companies happily backing up data to tape every
night, and never checking they can actually read anything back.
Kodak say their accelerated aging tests indicate that their Infoguard
CD-R, which has an extra coating over the recording surface, will
last 200 years. TDK say that their discs will last "about 100 years".

Tests by West Deutsche Rundfunk in Germany support manufacturers'
claims of two or three years ago giving 10-20 years as the life of a
CD. Australia's National Film and Sound Archive also suggests a life
expectancy of 10-20 years compared to pressed CDs lasting around four
times that long.

John Spence, head of radio archives with the Australian Broadcasting
Corporation in Sydney, has been quoted, along with many others, as
holding the view that how long the CD-ROM format is going to last "is
perhaps a more important question".


Figure 1. Dye layers on CDs and CD-Rs.
Image from Web site ,
a good reference for information on which specifications
of CD-R are made by which companies.

Jerome L. Hartke, of Media Sciences, Inc., has not tested longevity
but the more simple matter of writing and reading. He reports: "The
quality of CD-R discs from experienced manufacturers has improved
from 30 per cent defective discs in 1998 to 13 per cent in 2000.
Failures for other discs increased from 33 per cent in 1998 to an
alarming 60 per cent in 2000."

In other words it seems that while the original manufacturers are
getting better, there are an alarming number of questionable discs
around. There's more information on this at
.


The survey concluded: "Test results clearly indicated that all discs
were not alike, even if their colors were similar. Cost pressures
have resulted in a broad matrix of stampers, dyes, metallizations,
and processes. No correlation was observed between CD-R quality and
dye type (cyanine or phthalocyanine), metallization (gold or silver),
or recording speed (2X-8X). Quality is primarily determined by
efforts at the manufacturing facility."

Even so, many reports of extremely short life in discs could be due
to them being recorded on faulty or substandard equipment rather than
of being poor quality discs in the first place.

The US standards institute has a committee (ANSI Committee IT-9)
which is working on guidelines for CD-ROM and CD-R life estimation.
However, there seem to be no standards for drives, other than an
expectation that they will work to the "Orange Book" specifications.
So, the first question one has to ask is whether one is getting a
satisfactory disc in the first place, then whether you are making a
good recording.

There are still many references on the Internet to a 1998 report
in 'U.S. News and World Report' under the heading "Whoops, There Goes
Another CD-ROM" that quoted the life of data recorded on CDs as about
five years.


Figure 2. Woolly jumpers for your CD?
They could certainly provide a different kind of protection but they
show an Australian adaptation of the woollen crochet CD coaster
referred to in PCUpdate, May 2001. They use a bad CD as stiffening to
slop up liquid spills before they damage the CDs you do want. The
pattern is available at:


Laura Tangley wrote that unlike paper based landmarks of the past,
the essential records from today, including health and bank records
and research data, would quickly disintegrate.

This has been denied by many in the industry. For example, Stephen F.
Nathans in EMedia Professional, wrote under the heading "Can CDs Get
Mad Cow Disease?" that while research by National Media Lab (NML) in
the USA using "accelerated aging" had stated that CD-Rs from "all
major vendors are acceptable for reliable data storage" for "at least
five years", that "the best vendors" of CD-ROM media can be expected
to provide reliable data storage for 50 years; CD-R's best and
brightest clock in at 30 years, maybe more.

The reasons for differences in colour are explained in the sidebar
above. But even expert writers and researchers in this field refer to
a level of secrecy among the manufacturers which has only recently
been breaking down.
While some Web sites include tables of who produces what brand, and
what dye and metallic layer they are based on, there is no real way
for the consumer to know just where a minor brand CD-R was made and
using what dye. There are hints that even among the major
manufacturers quality could vary somewhat according to which factory
the disc was made in.


However, even if we stick to top brands, it is the standard of
writing the disc today which is going to have the greatest influence
on how long it will last. For example, this may be influenced more by
the possibility that the writing laser is gradually losing power or
accuracy.

Dana J. Parker, co-author of several technical books on CD-ROMs, is
quoted online as stating:
"CD recordable technology is a complex and convoluted subject. There
are many factors that come into play when recording a disc: the rate
of spin, the formula of the dye, the ambient temperature, the
internal temperature, the age of the media, the power and wavelength
of the laser, the spacing and size of the marks on the media relative
to the speed of the disc, to name but a very few."

At least you can discount the myth of "CD rot". It did have some
truth with early compact discs - which use aluminium as the backing,
and where, if the edge coating was incomplete, the aluminum could
corrode through oxidation (aluminium doesn't rust, but you will have
seen that grey powdery coating on older aluminium windows which is
the equivalent).

But there are some other problems. The silver coating used on some CD-
R discs may also be affected by sulphur, a common pollutant of the
air we breathe.

Gold may be best, but cost means that gold layers tend to be very
thin, and so a thicker silver layer may be better than a thin gold
layer. Again, our descendants may know the answer. Ask again in 90
years.
Early labelling inks managed to corrode the CD - and I'm sure I'm not
the only person to have written to a CD, checked that all is well,
and then grabbed the nearest marker to note the contents and by doing
so created another coaster.

Water must also be avoided since polycarbonate will absorb water
molecules and oil from fingerprints or organic vapors in the
environment can also attack either surface. So where does this leave
us? Somewhat confused. And we have not covered John Spence's greater
concern that it may be as hard to find a CD player in 20 years time
as it is now to find a Benoulli Box or an 8-inch floppy drive. To
keep the material you will also have to keep the hardware.

Those few of us who really need assured information retrieval should
be considering commercial services who use top quality discs,
expensive calibrated CD writers and clean rooms to ensure no dust or
pollution problems in the writing stage. I will continue to use the
cheapest bulk-buy discs for file transfers, and for progressive
backups which I will dump in a week or a month's time. But for true
backups, I'll go for the more expensive brands which at least make
some reasonable claims at longevity.

Does Colour Matter?

Unlike an ordinary CD, the CD-R has an organic dye recording layer
between the polycarbonate substrate and the light reflective layer.
The polycarbonate is etched, or stamped, with a spiral groove,
usually called a "pre-groove", used to guide the laser beam. The
laser beam heats and melts the organic dye forming a series of marks
which resemble the pits of a pressed CD.

The colour of a recordable CD can be misleading because what you see
is a combination of the colour of the dye, and of the metallic
coating which reflects through it. The gold CD-R uses clear
phthalocyanine dye and a gold reflection layer. The green CD-R uses
cyanine, which is blue, but with the gold reflective layer, it
appears green. Recently the cyanine formula has been altered to give
a longer life and the gold reflection layer has also been replaced by
a silver reflection layer, which makes the color appear blue.

Other blue media are made of azo pigments. The colour may seem
similar to the more recent cyanine/silver combination but
manufacturers claim these blue discs are as durable as golden ones.

Colour does not matter to the recorder. In the light range in which
they work, all the colours will appear the same.

Phthalocyanine is less sensitive to ordinary light than cyanine but
has a narrower range for writing with laser light. Most CD-R drives
are based on using the original Taiyo Yuden cyanine system licenced
by Taiyo Yuden to TDK and Ricoh, who in turn make discs for many
other companies.

Phthalocyanine was developed by Mitsui Toatsu as an alternative to
cyanine and licensed to Eastman Kodak and to Mitsubishi/Verbatim. All
three companies may manufacture discs for resale by other companies.

Mitsubishi developed the metallised azo dye that, used with a silver
reflective layer, provides an unmistakable blue color. Azo CD-R discs
are also marketed by Verbatim.

More recently, third party dyes have appeared. These are not Taiyo
Yuden cyanine or Mitsui Toatsu phthalocyanine dyes, although the
colours may be similar.


Reprinted from the June 2001 issue of PC Update, the magazine of
Melbourne PC User Group, Australia

[About Melbourne PC User Group]

开云体育

Krys Dobrzanski wrote:

Hi Janusz, thank you for the advice and the link,?I will certainly have a look.

?

I don't know how the rest of the group cope with the horrors and the learned realities of the deportations, but I sometimes feel as if I need counselling...(I expect you all think that it's patently obvious that?I seriously need help anyway!!), but that aside...does it get easier to accept? I suppose that it is so new for me that it feels very raw, but perhaps being?in the KSgroup,?talking things through and helping others in some small way, may eventually prove to be therapeutic. I certainly think that it makes you look differently at life and appreciate what you have!

?

Sorry for the psycho-analysis,

?

Warmest regards,

Krys

?

Ipswich, England

?

There is a very well known phenomena called secondary traumatization. It is commonly experienced and perhaps best known by people who work with rape and incest victims. . . that sort of thing. But it very much applies here. I think I'm a pretty happy well adjusted regular guy, but I experienced it quite profoundly for the first couple of weeks after I returned from my first trip to Poland.? What got to me most was visiting my families town of Zabludow where I know so much of what horrible things happened, and talking to elderly Poles there about their experiences during the war, and what they saw happened to the Jews.? I stood on the little bridge over the Rudnia River right near where my families blacksmith shop was, and where my great uncle and his two sons had their heads blown off by german troops on June 26th 1941.? It really was a profound experience, and something that I had previously never thought I would ever do.? When I was in Poland I was fine. I was so busy in a whirlwind trying to accomplish everything I planned. But when I returned home after a few days I started waking up during the night with just overwhelming feelings of loss and sadness,? and a heavy weight of responsibility that the story of what happened to the Jewish people of Zabludow should be preserved and not forgotten, and if I wasn't going to do it who in the hell was. Fortunately my wife is my best shrink, and after a couple of weeks it subsided.? But I'll always have rocks of sadness in my heart for what happened to this four hundred year old community, and? how it was erased in such a cataclysmic, savage, and cruel manner.

My best suggestion is to use your skills. I'm sure most people on this list have them. Describe your feelings to others who you trust. Practice radical acceptance. . . that is accept that as horrible as the truth is, it is what it is. There is no sugar coating to be put on it.? Channel your knowledge and acceptance of what happened into something positive that honors the memory of the victims.? Try to find some greater meaning in their suffering that can be communicated effectively to others so that perhaps someday somewhere people will be spared this kind of suffering because of the "conscience of the world".

Bellow is a copy of a little poem I wrote (I'm certainly no poet) during one of my sleepless nights.


The Burnt Zabludow
by Tilford Bartman
I know a place where once even the children
without using a calendar or a watch, could know the day of the week
the change of the four seasons, the coming of the holidays
. . . life in circular motion. Now this place is an empty shell
which reverberates with the sound of silence,
of absence, of non-existence. A hollow ear-shattering piercing noise
Four hundred years
of what was, and who used to be. Not a grave, not a stone
Ashes scattered upon the four winds.
How will we gather them in the end of days. In my mind this silence is broken
by the souls of Jewish Zabludow
who cry out to me in sadness
. . . Don’t forget us, we are part of you!

开云体育

OOps.. and his and herstory keeps repeating itself over and over again. When will they ever learn?


Bye 4 now Hela.

From: Paul Havers <haverp@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: The Betrayal of Poland 1939-1945
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:40:12 +0000

Not wanting to add oil to the fire but has any one ever noticed that Americans have a tendency and a habit of getting things wrong.
The main problem that exists is that the US Military and some parts of the government seem to think that they are the all mighty and can do whatever they like
the only problem is that it generally goes wrong and other people pay the consequences.
Please do not mistake this for Yank bashing but if you look back at all the major places that the US has gone to "help" (with few exceptions)
it has all gone pear shaped and has managed to backfire in the US face.
The main problem I think is the lack of ability by the US military is to acknowledge that they were "Wrong" and that they haven't a clue
to some of the ways of the rest of the world.
If someone tells you that someone like Stalin is up to no good and he/she has first hand experience generally I would be inclined to listen and
not dismiss it like some fairy tale, the US and UK didn't listen.Possibly some people did but not enough of them to make sure it got a serious mention.
Spies were everywhere but if a section of a military actually knows or suspects that someone is spying then something should be done about it.
I have served in Germany alongside some US servicemen and have to say that the technology was good but the average soldier wasn't.

The US goes in and does whatever it wants and then just gets out when things are supposedly "sorted out" and then leaves others to pick up the pieces.

Nothing can compensate a country and the families for the loss of it's people but the US has managed to get very rich out of both world wars.
Fair be it, it has lost a large number of it's young men but not on a scale of the other combatant countries and it hasn't suffered
the same level of destruction as the European countries did.

Again it's something that I have noticed, and it isn't the first and won't be the last time that it was/will happen.

Paul

At 18:51 26/01/2004, you wrote:

Leszek wrote:

"I particularly amazed that our Usian members are
shocked by this. The US, as any other nation with
hegemonic tendencies, has sold out a host of allies.
Shall I list them?"

I believe Poland's case was unique in that Allies hurt themselves
tremendously by their betrayals of Poland. Do not forget FDR's
administration was infested by Soviet spies and communist
sympathizers (There is a ton of evidence: Ager Hiss, a soviet spy,
actually represented the US at Yalta, Stalin knew about the atom bomb
before Truman, etc). To this day, there is an "elephant in the room"
that no American official or historian wants to talk or write about:
FDR was taking advice from Soviet spies and basing his decisions on
their advice. Anders repeatedly warned the West not to trust Stalin
but they did not listen. The West certainly did not expect the
blockade of Berlin, and everything else that followed. In fact, the
American government scrambled en masse in the late 40's when they
figured out what the Soviets were really about. I have never looked
into this but I strongly suspect it was the Soviet spies in
Washington that talked FDR into an alliance with the Soviet Union in
the first place (has anyone looked into this?). That would be one
big elephant!

Here's an interesting tidbit I recently learned about Katyn from the
official CIA website at
00/art6.html.

Several quotes from their page:

"The NKVD filmed executions carried out in Smolensk, either at the
local prison or in the basement of its headquarters. During the
Korean war, the Soviets gave North Korea a copy of the film for
instructional purposes"

"As the Cold War heated up, Katyn became a shibboleth in US politics.
In 1949, an American journalist assembled a committee of prominent
Americans, which included former OSS chief Gen. William Donovan and
future DCI Allen Dulles, to press for an official inquiry, but it
went nowhere. Then came the Korean war and concern that Communist
forces were executing American GIs. "Katyn may well have been a
blueprint for Korea," one Congressman declared."

Thanks,
Bob



--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Lech Lesiak <lech_lesiak@y...>
wrote:

--- julek2205 <julian_plowy@e...> wrote:
---------------------------------

Buchanan for years had a great deal of infulance in
the US government.
Here is what he had to say regarding some historical
items about the
betrayal of Poland.
End quote

Of course Poland was betrayed. I don't know why
anyone should be surprised. Poland was a small player
in a war involving the major powers. Major powers
sell our minor ones willy nilly when it's in their
interest.

Poland could, and has been, accused of 'selling out'
Czechoslovakia when it occupied territory given to the
Czechs by an international tribunal after WWI.

I particularly amazed that our Usian members are
shocked by this. The US, as any other nation with
hegemonic tendencies, has sold out a host of allies.
Shall I list them?

Czesc,
Leszek
Edmonton Alberta Kanada

______________________________________________________________________

Post your free ad now!

*
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
*
Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :
*
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
*


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All outgoing messages are certified Virus Free
Scanned by Norton Anti Virus 2003 - www.sarc.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OO

_________________________________________________________________
Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today!

Guys, this thread is verging off-topic. Let's keep it on Poland and the deportations, 1930s and 1940's - not a critique of contemporary US & UK geopolitics?
Thanks!
Stefan